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Andy21
Armchairanarchist

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On gayness
#5660923 - 05/22/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I just wanted to get a sense of your opinions on gayness. I mean I know a lot of you feel it's disgusting (I get that, everyones entitled to their feelings). But I wanted your spiritual/psychological perspective more than anything. I am pretty gay, not feminine but I like guys more. I dont go on marches or go out every night to be sodomised by strangers, but I just ya know connect with guys in that way. I do however sense something very unhealthy in gay mentality, which is especially apparent when looking at gay porn, its a look but it represents a kind of complete lack of empathy, with also a look of contempt coupled with anxiety. It's hard to actually write down what I mean but if you check out a few pics you might see what I mean. It may just be that porn stars are all crack whores. Maybe I am just paranoid, it could be the top/bottom power dynamic bullshit lots of gay guys obsess over. In my opinion sex should just be a fun extension of conversation, not a predatory power game. Im rambling, your thoughts please! *waits for antifag PM's*
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fireworks_god
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5660962 - 05/22/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's no big deal. It is merely one's personal choice. For whatever reason, some are attracted to individual's from the same gender in a sexual manner, and they have the right to express that and to form relationships with each other. 
I'm sure there are disadvantages and negative traits that may be apparent in some aspects of the gay society, but it is that way for everything. I'm not too aware of specificially what you are referring to, but I think it is important that individuals in a relationship simply be together in a natural way, and do not strain dynamics and identity issues within the relationship. 
My girlfriend and I are friends with a gay couple. I wouldn't exactly call them a "couple", but just two guys who seem to stick together through all the areas of the country they have lived in, all of the different guys that they end up fucking, etc. etc. etc. It isn't exactly a healthy relationship, and I've always wondered if it is that way for all gay people, but I think it is more reflective of simply those who maintain a sense of freedom to fuck around with the other guys at the bar (again, making me wonder if it is this way for all gay relationships ).
I do not consider myself to be gay personally. I am not primarily attracted to guys in any way. The only odd thing about it is that there has been just a couple of guys throughout my life that I have been attracted to. We have fooled around with our friends a few times, never had anything stuck you know where , but there is something about the experience that is appealing. I don't concern myself with it, and its not my lifestyle.
I've never understood why its considered to be such an issue, and why people are so intolerant of it. The notion of conservative Christians crusading to maintain the sanctity of their man/woman marriage is ludicrous and tragically hilarious. Get over yourself, you fucking loon-jobs! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5660970 - 05/22/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Eww! Fags are gross! j/k 
One of my best friends in High School was gay. He certainly didn't fit the whole effiminate flamer stereotype. I didn't have any problem with it. In fact, I think we became better friends after he came out of the closet. Later, I questioned my own sexuality, and even did some "experimenting." I eventually realized that that life wasn't for me, but I've never regretted it, as it helped me to know myself better.
As for the gay porn thing, I've never really watched any(at least not deliberately), but I've heard that most of the guys in gay porn are actually straight, and gay porn just happens to pay better money than straight porn.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5660976 - 05/22/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Most hetero porn is like that, too. 
I don't think that it has to do with sexual orientation, but the general neurosis surrounding sexuality in our society. Since gay sex is even more taboo than hetero sex, the neurosis is more intense.
I say if everyone involved in the sex act is enjoying their experience, it's all good.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5660985 - 05/22/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I say if everyone involved in the sex act is enjoying their experience, it's all good.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Andy21
Armchairanarchist

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I appreciate your replies guys, I have been lurking for a while and enjoy the level of your discussions. You seem to be for the most part very insightful people, with lots of empathy. Which is a step up from most every other board I have been to.
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fireworks_god
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5661104 - 05/22/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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We tend to be a bit more responsible for our outlooks and viewpoints, and the expression and sharing of them. 
After all, we owe it to ourselves and each other to truly seek a greater understanding and the means to express that understanding with like-minded individuals.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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dblaney
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5661331 - 05/22/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The entire phenomenal universe is the interplay of the yin and yang forces.
According to The Yellow Emperor:
4. All beings and things in the universe are complex aggregates of universal energy composed of infinitely varying proportions of yin and yang.
6. Yin and yang attract one another.
7. Nothing is entirely yin or entirely yang; all phenomena are composed of both yin and yang.
9. The force of attraction between yin and yang is greater when the difference between them is greater, and smaller when it is smaller.
Men are more yang and women are more yin. It seems natural that they should be attracted to one another. I think it is part of human nature to be attracted to the opposite sex. I have no idea whether homosexuality is due to some sort of energy blockage or early psychological development issues or whether there is actually variation on human nature in some people, though I do lean towards the first two.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Silversoul
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661338 - 05/22/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What you neglect is that you don't have one thing that is yin while the other is yang. Both energies exist within us all. Each of us has both masculine and feminine nature.
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DoctorJ


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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5661380 - 05/22/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't have a problem with gays as long as they stay the hell out of my way. 'Gay Pride' parades are kinda dumb if you ask me. I'm not gonna throw a 'Straight Pride' parade. They already have that, its called the strip club. I've actually found that gay clubs are a good place to meet women, though I do feel a bit like a minnow in a shark tank when I'm there.
anyway, I really don't give a shit what people do as long as they aren't fucking around with me personally. But ultimately I think male homosexuality is distasteful and unnatural. Of course, it exists within the natural universe so it really isn't unnatural, but you know what I mean. You know why gay people tend to be neat freaks? Because they have a subconscious desire to clean up their life, which is caused by the filthy behavior they indulge in.
I'm sorry, to each his own and again I will state I ultimately don't care what people do with themselves, but I don't think that anyone, man or woman, will ever be able to convince ME that sticking my dick in shit is a fun thing to do.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Nope, didn't neglect it, see numbers 4 and 7.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661419 - 05/22/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: I don't have a problem with gays as long as they stay the hell out of my way. 'Gay Pride' parades are kinda dumb if you ask me. I'm not gonna throw a 'Straight Pride' parade.
Of course you aren't, because your rights as an individual are not trampled upon. There aren't ignorant gay morons going around and tying up people for being straight and dragging them behind their cars. People aren't being cut up to the point where you couldn't tell if they were human or a deer simply because they were gay.
Where the fuck are you coming from? Ignorant la-la land? You seriously do not have a clue, and it is on issues like this that all of your petty, egotistical posturing are revealed to be incredibly pathetic. 
Quote:
But ultimately I think male homosexuality is distasteful and unnatural.... You know why gay people tend to be neat freaks? Because they have a subconscious desire to clean up their life, which is caused by the filthy behavior they indulge in.
Baseless, ignorant bullshit. Holding such a view is hardly any better than those who hold similar views and choose to act upon it. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661436 - 05/22/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think gayness is a direct result of all the pissing humanity has done in the human genome. Human beings have no sense of what is good for their race. They only have a sense of what is good for the self. Hence, they breed without purpose. They breed for themselves, not the good of the race. Hence, only the worst genetics get passed down. What you end up with is a human genome that resembles a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence. A human genome that can't take care of itself. A human genome that ultimately destroys itself.
The gene pool is fucked because we've all been pissing in it for so many years. This is what creates unstable mutations that ultimately don't survive.
Of course, this isn't the fault of the gay individual, it is the fault of what he has inherited from those who preceded him.
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DoctorJ


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Quote:
Of course you aren't, because your rights as an individual are not trampled upon. There aren't ignorant gay morons going around and tying up people for being straight and dragging them behind their cars. People aren't being cut up to the point where you couldn't tell if they were human or a deer simply because they were gay.
I don't support that! Why are you blaming me for something I've never done? Look, I have a lot of gay friends, some of the coolest people I have ever met were gay. I just don't share their taste! I guess that makes me a fucking fascist bigot doesn't it? I should go out and throw myself at a bunch of gay dudes so they can 'enlighten' me.
No I don't advocate killing gay people. I never have. I don't make fun of gay people. I don't ostracize them. I don't know where you are getting the ideas that I do. I only make decisions for ME, dude. I could give a flying fuck what everyone else does, as long as they don't hurt themselves or eachother.
If gay people have something in their brain that tells them to want men, then they should want men! I mean, everything exists for a reason. Its none of my business what they want. I don't have, nor do I want to have, anything to do with it.
There's a difference between having an opinion and being a bigot. Anyone can have an opinion. Its when you force it on others that you are a bigot.
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dblaney
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661483 - 05/22/06 07:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Human beings have no sense of what is good for their race. They only have a sense of what is good for the self.
And what makes you different? What authority have you to make such a sweeping and lofty condemnation?
They breed for themselves, not the good of the race. Hence, only the worst genetics get passed down. What you end up with is a human genome that resembles a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence.
You know, this logic reminds me alot of someone else in history...what was his name...oh yeah, Hitler.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661491 - 05/22/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I never blamed you for anything. You stated that Gay Pride marches were kind of dumb, and that we don't have straight pride marches. Such a statement seems entirely ignorant of the reasons why there would be Gay Pride marches, and I attempted to illustrate that in a visual manner.
Are civil rights marches dumb? Same difference.
Any scientific substantiation that being gay is the result of poor genetics? After all, genetics is entirely within the scientific realm. Any basis for your opinion?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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I didn't say poor genetics. I said mutant genetics. I'm a mutant, so I can't be too hard on the others.
Time will tell if the mutation survives. I don't see how it can if gays can't have children. But then again, straight parents often have gay children.
But whatever. I really shouldn't have even gotten involved in this debate. Its really none of my business. I don't care either way.
But I do think gays should look at themselves in the mirror more often.
Oh yeah, and just about anyone who talks about genetics these days is labeled hitler. Nice stereotype there. We should stop studying the human genome to cure disease, because we sure don't want to be hitler!!!
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dblaney
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661579 - 05/22/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There's a difference between having an opinion and being a bigot. Anyone can have an opinion. Its when you force it on others that you are a bigot.
Bigot (n) One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
Seems to me that someone who considers himself a savior and up there with the likes of Jesus would be loving and accepting of EVERYONE. I can't really imagine Jesus going around saying "In the eyes of God, all are equal...well except for the gays, they can go fuck off and burn in hell."
While it's good you don't go around openly being a bigot and openly being intolerant, your statements do seem to reflect a deeper dislike of homosexuality:
Quote:
But ultimately I think male homosexuality is distasteful and unnatural.
(female on the other hand... ?) 
Quote:
You know why gay people tend to be neat freaks? Because they have a subconscious desire to clean up their life, which is caused by the filthy behavior they indulge in.
Perhaps you could be considered an "in the closet" bigot
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661585 - 05/22/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A lotta shit comes out of your mouth and you don't seem to mind that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661596 - 05/22/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, and just about anyone who talks about genetics these days is labeled hitler. Nice stereotype there. We should stop studying the human genome to cure disease, because we sure don't want to be hitler!!!
..Not quite, just those who talk about how fucked up the gene pool is because of people not breeding for the good of the species; how the human genome has become a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence. This is what Hitler thought. The only difference is he acted on it. And incidentally, so did the USA and probably other countries: eugenics and similar programs.
Quote:
Hence, only the worst genetics get passed down. What you end up with is a human genome that resembles a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence. A human genome that can't take care of itself. A human genome that ultimately destroys itself.
The gene pool is fucked because we've all been pissing in it for so many years. This is what creates unstable mutations that ultimately don't survive.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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DoctorJ


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661610 - 05/22/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm tryin real hard to be the shepherd, man. you have no idea.
oh yeah, and I love lesbians. They're fun. Yes, that is a double standard. Women get the long end of the stick on that one, as usual.
but hey, I really don't care what the gays do. Just don't do it to me, and try not to do it in my personal space. I mean, if I go to a gay club and see a bunch of guys making out, I'm not going to be offended by it. That is their environment and they can do whatever they want to in it. If I'm there, I'm not going to tell them what to do in their own club!
On the other hand, if a bunch of gays march down my street waving their gayness in my face, I might be a little annoyed. But I'd probably just turn up the stereo and ignore it. As I have repeatedly said, its none of my business.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661623 - 05/22/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Nope, didn't neglect it, see numbers 4 and 7.
Then you've already refuted your own point.
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DoctorJ


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661638 - 05/22/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Oh yeah, and just about anyone who talks about genetics these days is labeled hitler. Nice stereotype there. We should stop studying the human genome to cure disease, because we sure don't want to be hitler!!!
..Not quite, just those who talk about how fucked up the gene pool is because of people not breeding for the good of the species; how the human genome has become a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence. This is what Hitler thought. The only difference is he acted on it. And incidentally, so did the USA and probably other countries: eugenics and similar programs.
dude, if you don't think the gene pool is fucked, go downtown to the DMV or the social security card office and take a look at REGULAR PEOPLE. They are fucked! They are in pain. Their bodies are falling apart, their minds are confused.
My body is falling apart too, and my mind doesn't always work the way it should. I blame this on the generations that preceded me, and their complete lack of understanding how to breed properly.
If humans bred themselves the way Jack Herer breeds pot, we would obviously be a much better species. Seriously, would you rather smoke pot grown from shitty seeds or pot grown from Cannibas Cup winning seeds?
Of course, I don't claim to know the proper breeding methods. Hitler claimed he did, and he was completely wrong! The changes he wanted to make to the gene pool would have caused redundancy and stagnation.
But we do have very smart geneticists on this planet who can help us in our persuit of perfection. Of course they must use their power wisely, or they will end up in the same boat as hitler. But hey, medical technology exists for our benefit. I see no reason not to make use of these advancements in our understanding.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661655 - 05/22/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do you explain homosexuality among other animals? Or the fact that homosexuality has been around for all of recorded human history?
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dblaney
Human Being

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How's that? My point was that at the most basic level, man's nature is more yang and woman's nature is more yin. If a woman had more yang, then she would never have been born: a man would have.
Yin and yang are attracted to one another, so men are attracted to women and vice-versa. It makes perfect sense that certain yang aspects of a man may be attracted to certain yin aspects of another man. However, the desire to pursue this attraction to a sort of sexual union is, I think, a product of either an energy blockage or some early psychological developmental issue.
By no circumstances do I mean to pass judgment on this, this is just my current viewpoint on how homosexuality comes to be. I haven't thought it out too well, so I'm open to arguments
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661712 - 05/22/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: How's that? My point was that at the most basic level, man's nature is more yang and woman's nature is more yin.
This could be seen as a general statement, but to apply it to all men and women would be a mistake. And I think it's rather judgemental to attribute homosexuality to some sort of "energy blockage," as if there's something wrong with them.
Also, I should point out that many ancient cultures did not have the strict divisions in sexual orientation that we have today. In ancient Greece, Rome, Japan, and many other cultures, it was common for a married man to have sex with other men. Of all the Roman emperors, at least up until the empire became Christian, only one of them was exclusively heterosexual. To assume that strict heterosexuality is the natural order of things to be naive to history and biology.
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Basilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661737 - 05/22/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If public gay gatherings offend you, do gatherings of blacks and jews also offend you?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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dblaney
Human Being

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And I think it's rather judgemental to attribute homosexuality to some sort of "energy blockage," as if there's something wrong with them.
Ok, I can see how one could think this. But keep in mind that the system I proposed earlier was that the natural state of man is to have more yang, and thus be attracted more to women, who have more yin. By this line of thinking, for a man to be attracted to another man could only be the result of some sort of energy blockage.
You're questioning whether it is, in fact, the natural state of man to have more yang and thus to be attracted to women. This is a valid criticism, and I have no idea how one could go about proving it or disproving it.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Basilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661785 - 05/22/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are plenty of gay couples who have completely different personalities from one another, sometimes one of them being more masculine while the other is more feminine. Isn't this yin-yang?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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dblaney
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Yes, I'm sure it must be, since yin is attracted to yang and vice-versa.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Basilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661835 - 05/22/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So it's not really an "energy blockage", just a different kind of channeled energy then?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Good question. Water and rain are considered to be yin. But I have never heard of a man pursuing sexual union with a puddle. (Though I imagine it would be very amusing)
I would imagine that almost everyone at some point has felt at least some level of attraction towards a member of the same gender. That seems to accord with the yin-yang theory just fine. However, when someone from one gender decides to pursue sexual union with another member of the same gender, by the theory it seems that they would do so because of their early psychological development, which resulted in an energy block.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain



Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661887 - 05/22/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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As much as I agree that everyones rights ought to be secured and respected in a civilized society, I'm fervently against so-called "gay pride parades", and other homosexual community demonstrations. I am equally disappointed with such demonstrations as I am with societies which fail to honour the rights of homosexuals. I find either side to be crude and obnoxious.
"Gay pride parades" aren't just about gay rights. They are about standing out, about creating a contrast between one community and another. Anyone with any insight in to the issue can see that gay pride demonstrations do not serve to advance gay rights -- at least not directly -- and in fact they function to stir up discontent, and to foment the hatred that some carry in their hearts. Opposing hatred with obnoxiousness is like fighting fire with gasoline. It is contributory to the horrific actions taken against homosexuals by self-righteous fundamentalist vigilantes. This is not to justify their actions. It is merely to highlight a cause-effect relationship which, if allowed to continue, will only serve to further impair the collective judgement of our civilization.
On the subject of this thread; the problems that exist in homosexual relationships are not inherent to their homosexual status. The same disconnect between partners exists almost as a rule within homosexual partnerships. Very often on the TV and radio we are told that the measure of a good partner is the measure of their savings account, the size of their car, or the size of their sex organs. There is a standard upheld which asks us to believe that the perfect partner is the one who will answer to each one of our selfish desires. This kind of attitude may not manifest as plainly in homosexual relationships, but it does manifest in ways which are characteristic of that condition.
The real problem in relationships, sexual, romantic or otherwise, has to do with the attitude people have toward one another. Instead of asking ourselves what we might do to benefit the other person, we ask the other person what they might do to benefit our self. This is the root of all the problems we have with the people we encounter, even our own family.
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
Basilides said: If public gay gatherings offend you, do gatherings of blacks and jews also offend you?
look at you. pointing your fucking finger. Well make way for the biiiiig bad guy.
Parades offend me in general because they block traffic, are noisy, create a lot of litter, and if they are thrown by the government, they come out of my taxes. If ANY parade comes marching down my street, its a pain in the ass.
I don't give a shit who gets together in celebration, as long as they are not celebrating the fact that they are better than me. The only parade I would be offended by is a parade with the banner "J SUCKS". That would piss me off.
Why does everyone call me hitler? I think YOU GUYS are hitler. I'm just the guy that gets crucified for telling you what you don't want to hear. At least I'm honest. How many people who play the race card are closet racists themselves? Most of them.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
#5661900 - 05/22/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think gay pride parades are fine. It's not that I think they're necessary for progress. I just think it's probably a fun event for gay people to get together. As someone with a somewhat hippy-ish personality, I enjoy going to festivals and such in order to be with "my people." I think gay pride parades present a similar opportunity for gay people.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I totally understand that and wholeheartedly agree that homosexuals or whatever they want to be called should be allowed to assemble just like anyone else. I just don't think it does much for their cause to assemble in public, waving their alternative lifestyles in everyone's faces, trying to rub it in.
I don't go out and wave the fact that I smoke and trip in people's faces. You know what happens when potheads try to get together and have a parade? they get busted.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661940 - 05/22/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You ever heard of the million marijuana march?
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
#5661942 - 05/22/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think it's sketchy to start mentioning mitigating psychological factors in relation to the causes of homosexuality. Attributing it to an "energy block" (personally I believe yin-yang arcetypes to be symbolic, not literal) seems to me as if you're regarding the idea itself as a subversive expression.. correct me if I'm wrong.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain



Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661953 - 05/22/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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DoctorJ,
I share your opinion that gay pride parades are unnecessarily in-your-face. You have to admit, though: your post was rather charged and did solicit the kind of reaction you're getting. For example:
>> But ultimately I think male homosexuality is distasteful and unnatural. Of course, it exists within the natural universe so it really isn't unnatural, but you know what I mean.
This is a fairly balanced point of view. It's presented merely as opinion, makes no judgements, and considers things within appropriate contexts. No problem here. The problem comes with your follow-up:
>> You know why gay people tend to be neat freaks? Because they have a subconscious desire to clean up their life, which is caused by the filthy behaviour they indulge in.
This is rather baseless, I think. It sounds as though you've made yourself into the psychiatrist of the gay community, and that you've diagnosed their sickness through a severely biased and therefore unqualified lens. This kind of talk offends people. It stirs them up. In the same way that gay pride parades often offend people and stir them up, thereby worsening the debate surrounding the security of their rights, so too are these points rather pointless, serving only to attract negative attention. Even if it was your intention to present this as a point for discussion, the negative attention attracted by it's articulation prevented that from ever transpiring.
We can see the same problem surrounding the abortion debate. Demonstrations on either side whip up a flurry of anger, convolute the issue, and prevent the development of any worthwhile dialogue and understanding. But that's a whole other topic.
Just some thoughts.
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661957 - 05/22/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey, calm down bro 
Most gay pride parades are a fun day for any community. They're colorful and creative. The idea behind parades is generally one of activism. Gays are still in a fierce political battle over their individual rights even today.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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we are all in a fierce battle over our political rights.
personally, I sympathize with gays a lot because we both lead alternative lifestyles. I mean, I enjoy behavior that is against the law, so who am I to judge? Still though, I don't walk around shouting out to people that I smoke pot. That would be counter-productive. Yeah, gays get beat up and kicked out of school for their lifestyle. So do drug users. We get kicked out of school and put in prison, and beaten and raped there. Where's our parade?
you wanna hear a funny joke I made up?
"Why is homosexuality against the law? What do they expect to accomplish by this? What are they going to do if they catch you with another man? Send you to prison? How does that make sense? That's like sending a pot head to an all-expense paid trip to Amsterdam!"
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5662087 - 05/22/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think being gay is illegal anywhere in the developed world. And you know, stoners have rights too which is why they gather at Smoke-Ins. Man, the spirit of the 60's was to protest the establishment and their out-dated views even if it meant getting the blunt end of a baton or being taken downtown by the boys in blue. It's a matter of not letting others push you around, so if it's gays or stoners showing a bit of fortitude, more power to them.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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"We lost the values but we kept the weed!"
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5662179 - 05/22/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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After reading all your posts on this thread I have come to a conclusion. You need to come on out of the closet because your obsession with your possible latent homsexuality is really causing you some trouble. Self rejection is never good, and the sooner you come to grips with this the better. I am serious. The bigoted responses you have posted point very strongly to these impulses. Combine that with your contempt for women and I think I got your tendancies nailed down.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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As fireworks would say...
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: After reading all your posts on this thread I have come to a conclusion. You need to come on out of the closet because your obsession with your possible latent homsexuality is really causing you some trouble. Self rejection is never good, and the sooner you come to grips with this the better. I am serious. The bigoted responses you have posted point very strongly to these impulses. Combine that with your contempt for women and I think I got your tendancies nailed down.
the only thing you have nailed down is your own hands to a tree. You think I'm runnin out of nails? A pretty girl with blue eyes gave me all the nails I need. Have fun hanging there, guy. I'll be back in a few thousands years to get you down
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CUBErt
Connoisseur ofHallucination


Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5662315 - 05/22/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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While Huehuecoyotl usually has some pretty enlightening things to say, I think the whole "you bash gays so you are secretly gay yourself" stab is pretty tired. I doubt all the rednecks that hate black people secretly go home and listen to Nelly, so why has homophobia become an automatic open door for people to point out that the person himself is gay?
Also, likening him to Hitler for his views on the gene pool or distate for gay rallies is rather hyperbolic.
I don't even agree with DoctorJ on a few points, or to the extent he believes in other things, but his vastly different viewpoint (like most others) should be thoughtfully analyzed rather than immediately scrutinized for insights into his own personal faults
-------------------- -CUBErt
 
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: On gayness [Re: Andy21]
#5662372 - 05/22/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, I'm definately gay, and I don't really know what you mean by a spiritual perspective on being gay, as I see sexuality as a function of the personality and not Spirit. However, on a psychological level, I'd say that when I was very young my emotions began to flow much stronger towards men than women. As you can see from my pic, I'm not effiminate either, but I really see no problem with effiminate men, I'm simply not attracted to them. I think in the world of pornography, anything that's considered "work" is going to lack empathy, but if people who are genuinely turned on by one another and a camera, then it's real and hot. Granted that's not the standard in the industry, but it's out there if you look for it in the right places. Life isn't so black and white. Though you're not interested in Pride parades (that's OK), they exist for a reason. In 1969 in the last weekend of June there was a riot against police who used to brutalize gay men (at the time it was illegal to serve alcohol to gays) at a bar in NYC called Stonewall on Christopher St. This started a protest for 3 days. You know, it also OK if you don't "go out every night to be sodomized by strangers", but really, why so judgmental? I'd estimate that I've had thousands of sexual partners, but when I go out into a social-sexual scene like a bar I don't have any expectations, I just look to enjoy my community, everything else that may or may not happen is an extension of that. I see your view of top/bottom power dynamics in sex as extremely limited as well, though if you're not interested in their erotic potential that's your right, just realize that you've only scratched the surface of this subject.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: After reading all your posts on this thread I have come to a conclusion. You need to come on out of the closet because your obsession with your possible latent homsexuality is really causing you some trouble. Self rejection is never good, and the sooner you come to grips with this the better. I am serious. The bigoted responses you have posted point very strongly to these impulses. Combine that with your contempt for women and I think I got your tendancies nailed down.
his posts may be bigoted but yours is just plain ignorant. in my psychology class last semester we studied the research on this question to find out whether it was true bigotry against homosexuals points to homosexual impulses and it turned out to be totally false.
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.


Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: On gayness [Re: CUBErt]
#5662582 - 05/23/06 12:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i like the flamboyant gays and the transgendered. lesbians freak me out a little because i can never tell if they have a dislike of men. normal gay men i like that they give me compliments i don't get anywhere else, and i don't have to respond to it other than inner satisfaction.
i like the flamboyants because of the whole "mutant" sort of effect. i like that poeple are differnt than normal, and are able to maintain it and push thier differnce at other poeple without being destabilized. as to the whole energy blockage or psychological problem dealy: energetically normal poeple are just as fucked if not more so. All common attidues towards sex energetically and psychically are fucked, and if you have the spiritual technology to use sex correctly then it doesn't matter who or what you're using to arouse that energy.
remeber that according to most of the old time spiritual practices male-female sex is depleating the man and at worst is making the woman energetically crippled by dependence. at best women have it better energetically it would seem.
the highest form of sex is to constantly be making love to yourself and your surroundings withhout the limitations of the genital reproduction.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Posts: 44,175
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5662633 - 05/23/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't go out and wave the fact that I smoke and trip in people's faces. You know what happens when potheads try to get together and have a parade? they get busted.
Absurd comparison. Homosexual relations are legal while recreational drug usage is not.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Deviate]
#5662702 - 05/23/06 12:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Obviously not everyone who gay bashes is gay. Much of the world still has a problem with homosexuality and much of the world is obviously straight. The insinuation is more of a poetic irony - someone who consistently worries about the bedroom lives of others might at times come off as a little "lacking" in their own department.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: It's no big deal. It is merely one's personal choice. For whatever reason, some are attracted to individual's from the same gender in a sexual manner, and they have the right to express that and to form relationships with each other. 
I'm not getting into this topic tonight, if at all, but I will say that one cannot claim it is "merely" anything without providing the facts behind the issue. Tragically very few people possess the ability to discern between evaluating the source of an action and evaluating the worth of a person. To claim that homosexuality is not "natural" is not an offence, and when someone takes it as that it is out of simple-mindedness.
The truth of the issue of homosexualy, as far as we've discovered, is that it is not supported to be natural (keep reading) although there have been numerous "science-based" claims by activist groups, and activist-group supporters suggesting evidence that it is equal with heterosexuality. A review of these reports, from their original sources, shows that they intentionally contain large holes, manipulative wording, and conclusion-jumping. The state of the world now is that if someone doesn't want to see something then that someone won't see something, and the truth is no longer truth, but opinion.
I can find all homosexually-supporting reports in a few minutes and display, in focus and detail, the errors within them - however it cannot be tonight.
One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
I respect people whether or not they are straight or gay, however the truth of homosexuality's validity I will not attempt to make up or be biased on, nor would I be concerning any truth. I do not care about being right or wrong, I care that the truth stands and that people stop pretending their way through life. I also have gay friends, I don't condemn them or think of them as worse than myself, nor do I think of the issue of homosexuality as one of my life's focus'.
Another pop-psychology moment is when people think that all choices of action are equally intended and natural. That is fairy tale ideology. It's simple for a mind without understanding to dismiss honest learning by claiming everything is valid. Everything being possible to happen is no the same as everything being designed to be.
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Andy21
Armchairanarchist

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 288
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
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I am sorry I sounded judgemental, reading my message again I agree. I guess I probably am judgemental about promiscuity, just because I despise feeling used. I really have no moral objection to it, I just have the sneaking suspicion it would leave me a blubbering mess. DocterJ as to all gays being clean freaks, you are wrong. You should check out my room, theres about 50 empty evian bottles followed by a nice carpet of assignmnents followed by unwashed clothes. That said a few years ago I was a little OCD about cleanliness, but then just got bored and decided to get a hobby. I started watching movies, it worked out well; theres lots of movies
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I hate talking about this kind of shit because I always feel like an asshole for saying what I mean. I really shouldn't have gotten in on this thread at all and I apologize to anyone I have offended.
The fact of the matter is that homosexuals are a minority. We have a society based in majority rules with minority rights. And I respect the rights of the minority. But they should understand that they are unique in that they only make up about 10-15% of the general population. So not everyone is going to be down with them.
Does that mean they should get beat up and ostracized by society? Absolutely not. If I saw someone beating up a gay dude just for being gay, he would not escape my justice. Thats sickening to beat someone up over something so trivial.
But on the other hand, I'm not going to be all for it when some flamer comes around. I mean, when I see someone who is obviously gay to the point that they are letting everyone know it with every breath they take, I can't help but think about what they do. And it creeps me out. Thinking about that literally makes me shudder. I mean, shouldn't homosexuals at least be sensitive to the fact that their sexual practices just seem wierd to a lot of people? I mean, I don't have a problem with the existence of wierd things, but if I was around wierd things all the time, I'd go nuts.
Are we straight people not allowed our little bubble of ignorance? I mean, just because I accept that homosexuals exist doesn't mean I want to know all about them and what they do. Sometimes, I'd rather remain in the dark about some things. I think a lot of homosexuals are masters of the TMI: Too Much Information.
And its not like I hate gay people. Its the act that bothers me. The people are just fine. If one of my friends came out to me, I wouldn't be bothered by it. I would and have supported many gay people in their decision to be themselves.
But maybe gays should realize, just as they have a gene that makes them gay, I have a gene that makes gay sex seem repugnant to me. Can they not accept the fact that I would really rather just not hear about it?
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5662985 - 05/23/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It seems to me that you're simply generalizing a group of people
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: On gayness [Re: Deviate]
#5663026 - 05/23/06 04:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"in my psychology class last semester we studied the research on this question to find out whether it was true bigotry against homosexuals points to homosexual impulses and it turned out to be totally false."
I agree. Bigoted behavior towards a certain group does not indicate secret membership in that group, but it does indicate insecurity, but the individual involved also bears hatred towards women...so I see that as the deciding factor. It is possible, though, that he is merely unenlightened and and lacking in basic intelligence so I might be willing to concede the point to you with these factors in mind.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
#5663260 - 05/23/06 08:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ped said: I'm fervently against so-called "gay pride parades", and other homosexual community demonstrations.
Are you equally agansit Boy Scouts of America parades? The last time I checked, it was all right to form a group and to celebrate the group and its aspects.
Quote:
I am equally disappointed with such demonstrations as I am with societies which fail to honour the rights of homosexuals. I find either side to be crude and obnoxious.
Feeling disappointed in a society that fails to honor rights of a certain group doesn't exactly accomplish much in influencing society to honor their rights. I guess it is crude and obnoxious to make an example of the fact that one can practice one's right when another group refutes and denies one's rights, eh? 
Quote:
"Gay pride parades" aren't just about gay rights. They are about standing out, about creating a contrast between one community and another.
Cultural diversity is to be cherished and celebrated. It isn't a negative display when Native Americans hold a pow-wow, is it? Community should not be homogenized ( ), just as genetics should not be. Variety is the spice of life, variety is responsible for the continued existance of life. Why do you feel that variety should not be recognized, demonstrated, reveled?
Quote:
Anyone with any insight in to the issue can see that gay pride demonstrations do not serve to advance gay rights -- at least not directly -- and in fact they function to stir up discontent, and to foment the hatred that some carry in their hearts.
Is that their fault? A black man walking down a street in the South, perhaps glancing at a white woman has stirred up discontent in the white people in the area, actually inciting the hatred that the white men carried in their hearts, bringing them to murder the black man.
Anyone with insight into the issue can plainly see that the black man was not serving to advance black rights by actively practicing black rights.
Quote:
Opposing hatred with obnoxiousness is like fighting fire with gasoline.
Society is a complacent firehouse that will not reach for its extinguishers unless it is a blazing forest fire. If there is a societal problem, it needs to be magnifed. Otherwise, society will shrug and continue on its normal routine.
Quote:
This is not to justify their actions. It is merely to highlight a cause-effect relationship which, if allowed to continue, will only serve to further impair the collective judgement of our civilization.
Please explain to me very consisely and with vivid imagery the difference between the struggle for gay rights and the civil rights movement of the '60's.
No, you are right, the Million Man March was simply obnoxious. Those damn niggers, they didn't even realize that they were simply serving to impair society's collective judgement. They weren't effectively fighting the fire. They weren't engaging in behavior that would secure their rights as a human being.
I'd continue, but my sarcasm constructor just blew a fuse... actually, I think the circuit board itself melted.... 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Basilides said: It's a matter of not letting others push you around, so if it's gays or stoners showing a bit of fortitude, more power to them.
If we showed more fortitude, we'd have the power to live our life as we feel necessary. It isn't going to happen like that, even though it could. We'll simply have to wait for the slow, gradual, subtle change that will eventually bring it so that we can walk down the street with a joint in our lips.
Honestly, it all boils down to how much an individual feels that it is their right to behave in a certain manner, or to simply be a certain way. The drug issue is one where they simply say "Hey, you can't do that, we will punish you". How would it feel if someone told you that you did not have the right to be something that you could not change? That is more motivation. 
We lose our rights because we do not truly realize them as rights. If we were to say "Hey, I have an inalienable right to smoke marijuana" our actions would directly confront and rise agansit anyone who would attempt to deny us that right.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
So, what exactly is your point?
Quote:
I respect people whether or not they are straight or gay, however the truth of homosexuality's validity I will not attempt to make up or be biased on, nor would I be concerning any truth.
Homosexuality's validity? Homosexuality is valid because it is a choice that a human being is capable of making. Your reasoning would support the statement that "Tattoos are not valid for a person because the skin tears blah blah blah".
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I do not care about being right or wrong, I care that the truth stands and that people stop pretending their way through life.
The truth? The truth is that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. That makes it valid. Beneficial to an individual? Beneficial to another individual according to your own perspective? Debate that all you want. Don't throw the validity of something up in the air and implicate what you are alluding to.
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Another pop-psychology moment is when people think that all choices of action are equally intended and natural. That is fairy tale ideology. It's simple for a mind without understanding to dismiss honest learning by claiming everything is valid.
I choose to drink milk instead of water. Some scientific study suggests that the stomach lining is more suited to properly digest water than milk, etc. etc. technical stuff, so drinking milk is not a valid choice for an individual to make.
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Everything being possible to happen is no the same as everything being designed to be.
Is this to be interpreted as a subtle reference to creationism and a creator's intention? Hhhm... let us think this one out, if something is possible to occur, than the involved aspects of reality are designed for that something to possibly occur. Wow!
Hhm... is two homosexual men who masterbate each other and have oral sex not "designed" to be? Does the fact that the mouth has teeth while the vagina does not mean that oral sex is not natural, not designed to be?
Where, exactly, are you fucking coming from? Way out from left field, perhaps? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: So, what exactly is your point?
You really need me to spell it out? The human body is not suited for actions which
Quote:
Homosexuality's validity? Homosexuality is valid because it is a choice that a human being is capable of making. Your reasoning would support the statement that "Tattoos are not valid for a person because the skin tears blah blah blah".
That's not the context of validity I was talking about at all. Once again FWG is behind the grade, big suprise.
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The truth? The truth is that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. That makes it valid. Beneficial to an individual? Beneficial to another individual according to your own perspective? Debate that all you want. Don't throw the validity of something up in the air and implicate what you are alluding to.
No, that's a truth, not the truth of all angles of this discussion. I'm not talking about the lifestyle choice, or whether it's there to make.
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Is this to be interpreted as a subtle reference to creationism and a creator's intention? 
No it wasn't, nice of you to go all out on the drama tho.
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Where, exactly, are you fucking coming from? Way out from left field, perhaps? 
A place you're not too familiar with, let's call it Knowledge thru in depth study.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Disco Cat said: You really need me to spell it out? The human body is not suited for actions which
It isn't suited for such actions, eh? By what standard? Comparison to the vagina? The body is not suited for oral sex then, either, eh? Are you aware that the vagina's walls can tear as well?
The human body tends to not be too well suited for dairy products either, eh? Big fucking deal. 
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That's not the context of validity I was talking about at all. Once again FWG is behind the grade, big suprise.
Oh, so you were discussing some topic that did not pertain to the actual subject being discussed then, great. Homosexuality, being gay, does not equal "anal sex", and the context of whether or not anal sex is natural does not really pertain to the discussion on being gay that is being held.
I apologize for assuming that you would have actually been discussing something of direct relevance to the topic. 
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No, that's a truth, not the truth of all angles of this discussion. I'm not talking about the lifestyle choice, or whether it's there to make.
Spell it out, pure and simple. Remember, you are dealing with a fucking moron here. What exactly is your point, then, if you are not discussing what I had assumed you were discussing?
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No it wasn't, nice of you to go all out on the drama tho.
Ahh, but it refered to a specific design and intended usage. Evolution, physical reality, does not have intention or specific design, simply different aspects that are what they are, and thus a notion of suitability.
So the anus is not as suitable as a vagina for insertion of the penis. Super. Thus, anal sex is not natural. Profound conclusion. Utterly profound. 
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A place you're not too familiar with, let's call it Knowledge thru in depth study.
So, you've studied, in depth, the nature of anal sex? Hhhm.... 
How in depth are we talking here? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5663567 - 05/23/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I mean, shouldn't homosexuals at least be sensitive to the fact that their sexual practices just seem wierd to a lot of people?
No. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that you have a right not to be offended.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
Let's play your knowledge throughin-depth study game, shall we? After all, you've studied this in-depth, you know. 
Which is why your basic fact that people can think on is complete, unsubstantiated bullshit. Care to provide a basis for it?
The anus does not contain pleasure nerves? Hhmm... wow, that's interesting.
Quote:
The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.
Can you discern the difference between "does not contain" and "relatively high", first and foremost?
Do you know what an erogenous zone is?
What is an erogenous zone?
Its a part of someone' body that has a heightened sense of stimulation, usually resulting in sexual reponse.
Hhhm... I wonder how an area of the body that you claim has no "pleasure nerves" (strange, I've never heard the phrase "pleasure nerve" before ) could be an erogenous zone. 
Quote:
Anal intercourse can be pleasurable for both the insertive partner and the receptive partner. For females, pleasure from anal intercourse is also thought to be related to the shared wall between the rectum and the vagina as well as the G-spot. For males, the tightness of the anus is often said to be a source of pleasure in penetrative anal sex, while the presence of the prostate gland near the rectal wall is generally seen as a source of pleasure during receptive anal intercourse. Other animals have also been observed practicing anal intercourse.
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Anal intercourse is a common human sexual activity.
Quote:
Anal stretching can stimulate the nerves around the anus and can be considered pleasurable. Care must be taken to maintain elasticity.
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All of us - men and women - have sensitive nerve endings in our anus and rectum, and these nerves enjoy stimulation as much as those in other "erogenous zones" do. In fact, stimulation of the anus at the time of orgasm often results in a much more intense orgasm.
Etc., etc., etc., etc. For sources, simply search "pleasure nerves in anus" with Google. It is very quick to access accurate information from credible sources in such a manner.
Perhaps if you spent less time attempting to put me down with clumsy insults and more time with your in-depth studying, you would have some actual facts to share with us? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: On gayness [Re: Redstorm]
#5663634 - 05/23/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: I mean, shouldn't homosexuals at least be sensitive to the fact that their sexual practices just seem wierd to a lot of people?
I think that black people should be sensitive to the fact that some white people cannot stand the sight of niggers and should stay indoors.

 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
Quote:
The vaginal wall consists of three layers: a) an inner mucous type stratified squamous cell epithelium supported by a thick lamina propia, that undergoes hormone-related cyclical changes, b) the muscularis composed of outer longitudinal smooth muscle fibers and inner circular fibers, and c) an outer fibrous layer, rich in collagen and elastin, which provides structural support to the vagina.
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Dept/Content.aspx?DepartmentID=371&PageID=7131
Quote:
anoderm
lining of the anal canal immediately inferior to the dentate line and extending for about 1.5 cm. to the anal verge; it is devoid of hair and sebaceous and sweat glands, and so is not true skin, although it is squamous epithelium; it is pale, smooth, thin, and delicate, and shiny when stretched; it is especially vulnerable to abrasion (as from rough toilet paper), chemical irritants (soaps), and is well-provided with tactile and nociceptive (pain, itch) endings innervated by the inferior rectal (pudendal) nerve.
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Anoderm
In addition, anal penetration stimulates the prostate gland in males & the Grafenberg spot in females, potentially resulting in very intense orgasms. (I can assert that this is true from my very in-depth personal studies. )
The vagina is much more vulnerable to tearing and disease than the penis, so does that mean that women were not designed to have sex?
Your information is bogus, and your inferences baseless. Try again.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Redstorm]
#5664144 - 05/23/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
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I mean, shouldn't homosexuals at least be sensitive to the fact that their sexual practices just seem wierd to a lot of people?
No. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that you have a right not to be offended.
I wouldn't want that right.
all I'm saying is that if homosexuals want us to be sensitive to them, then they should be sensitive to us.
I mean, when I go visit my grandma, I don't make a big display of all the wierd shit I'm into, or at least I try not to these days. I'm sensitive to her old-world ways, or at least I try to be. I know that my grandmother would find it offensive that I smoke pot, listen to heavy metal, and generally live like a freaky beatnick. Thats why I don't rub it in her face that I do these things. I try to connect with her on common ground.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5664230 - 05/23/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If it's going to be that way, I expect that heterosexuals will keep their displays of affection for the opposite sex private and will not act "too hetero" around gays.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: On gayness [Re: Redstorm]
#5664233 - 05/23/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly, his reasoning is flawed. Apparently diversity should not be celebrated.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: On gayness [Re: Redstorm]
#5664270 - 05/23/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, I hate them goddamned straights...always celebrating their weddings, signing their spouses up for health insurance, adopting kids easily, flaunting their heterosexuality in public. I mean, really, do they think that we want to see that crap?
What they do in private is their business, but they should keep it out of our legal system, and keep it between the sheets with the lights out and the blinds closed! Quit flaunting your sickness, straight people!
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mr_kite
The Watcher


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5664305 - 05/23/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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But on the other hand, I'm not going to be all for it when some flamer comes around. I mean, when I see someone who is obviously gay to the point that they are letting everyone know it with every breath they take, I can't help but think about what they do. And it creeps me out. Thinking about that literally makes me shudder.
You have just come across as being someone who is obviously repulsed by gays to the point that you are letting everyone know about it with every breath you take in this thread.
Wasn't jesus quite a tolerant guy? Love thy neighbour? Love thy enemy? Wasn't Jesus' central message essentially tolerance, acceptance and love? What does jesus tell Mr J to think about homosexuals?
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: On gayness [Re: mr_kite]
#5664515 - 05/23/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jesus said: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Mark 12:31
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew 5:44
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5664562 - 05/23/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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good quotes
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5665299 - 05/23/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
Quote:
The vaginal wall consists of three layers: a) an inner mucous type stratified squamous cell epithelium supported by a thick lamina propia, that undergoes hormone-related cyclical changes, b) the muscularis composed of outer longitudinal smooth muscle fibers and inner circular fibers, and c) an outer fibrous layer, rich in collagen and elastin, which provides structural support to the vagina.
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Dept/Content.aspx?DepartmentID=371&PageID=7131
Quote:
anoderm
lining of the anal canal immediately inferior to the dentate line and extending for about 1.5 cm. to the anal verge; it is devoid of hair and sebaceous and sweat glands, and so is not true skin, although it is squamous epithelium; it is pale, smooth, thin, and delicate, and shiny when stretched; it is especially vulnerable to abrasion (as from rough toilet paper), chemical irritants (soaps), and is well-provided with tactile and nociceptive (pain, itch) endings innervated by the inferior rectal (pudendal) nerve.
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Anoderm
In addition, anal penetration stimulates the prostate gland in males & the Grafenberg spot in females, potentially resulting in very intense orgasms. (I can assert that this is true from my very in-depth personal studies. )
The vagina is much more vulnerable to tearing and disease than the penis, so does that mean that women were not designed to have sex?
Your information is bogus, and your inferences baseless. Try again.
Whoa there, I talked in layers of cells, any number of which can be contained in just 1 of those layers you mentioned. I'm going to give your perception skills the benefit of the doubt and presume that you knew you were twisting my comment in an attempt to refute it.
Go ask a doctor which will tear more easily. If you don't sound silly to everyone in the thread for claiming that the anus is better protected then that means there's a lot of uneducated people here. The anus tears easily, and that is a great entry for std's. In addition, it is possibly to cause permenant damage to the rectum from anal sex.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5665334 - 05/23/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think you suffer from homophobia. Not in a literal sense of bigotry, but a clinical one of irrational fear. You seem genuinely uncomfortable and pathologically-minded being around self-identified homosexuals, which I doubt is at all natural.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Stratified epithelium: two to many cell layers
* Stratified squamous Keratinized (cornified, dry) --surface cells non-nucleated and dead with cell membranes indistinct. (example: Epidermis)
Non-keratinized (non-cornified, moist) --surface cells are nucleated and alive with cell membranes more distinct. (examples: oral cavity, esophagus, anus, vagina, etc)
Anal and vaginal tissues are the same type of tissue, with the same type of cellular structure. You have provided no support for your assertions regarding either the physical nature of these tissues OR the "appropriateness" of their use in sexual intercourse.
Many types of sexual contact are possible, pleasurable and desireable to humans. To use inaccurate anatomical claims in order to prove the point that some types of sex are OK and some are not is absurd.
I did not claim that the anus was better protected than the vagina, I said that it was equally vulnerable. I claimed that the penis was better protected and more resistant to tearing. Since the penis is obviously designed for sexual intercourse, and the vagina is not, women should not have sex. Only male-male manual intercourse is designed to avoid all STD's and tearing, so it must be the only appropriate method. 
Give me a break. If you and your partner have not tested clean for STD's, you should be using a condom. If you use lubrication and a condom, it matters little where you stick it. (Except subjectively, of course. )
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5665396 - 05/23/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think this whole debate about anal sex is a farce. If anal sex is unnatural, oral sex might as well be regarded as such. One might as well just say sex with the purpose of procreation is the only natural form of sexuality if they're going to contend that certain parts of the body are off-limits for sexual expression. If anal sex is unnatural, whose to say oral sex is? Or french kissing? Or anything else people do with other people for sensual pleasure
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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What about sex with robots?? 
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Disco Cat said: One base fact people can think on: The vagina wall contains something around 90 cell layers to protect against disease, tearing and contamination. The anus has 2-3 layers of cells, tears easily, does not protect against disease, and contains no pleasure nerves.
Let's play your knowledge throughin-depth study game, shall we? After all, you've studied this in-depth, you know. 
Which is why your basic fact that people can think on is complete, unsubstantiated bullshit. Care to provide a basis for it?
The anus does not contain pleasure nerves? Hhmm... wow, that's interesting.
Quote:
The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.
Can you discern the difference between "does not contain" and "relatively high", first and foremost?
Do you know what an erogenous zone is?
What is an erogenous zone?
Its a part of someone' body that has a heightened sense of stimulation, usually resulting in sexual reponse.
Hhhm... I wonder how an area of the body that you claim has no "pleasure nerves" (strange, I've never heard the phrase "pleasure nerve" before ) could be an erogenous zone. 
Quote:
Anal intercourse can be pleasurable for both the insertive partner and the receptive partner. For females, pleasure from anal intercourse is also thought to be related to the shared wall between the rectum and the vagina as well as the G-spot. For males, the tightness of the anus is often said to be a source of pleasure in penetrative anal sex, while the presence of the prostate gland near the rectal wall is generally seen as a source of pleasure during receptive anal intercourse. Other animals have also been observed practicing anal intercourse.
Quote:
Anal intercourse is a common human sexual activity.
Quote:
Anal stretching can stimulate the nerves around the anus and can be considered pleasurable. Care must be taken to maintain elasticity.
Quote:
All of us - men and women - have sensitive nerve endings in our anus and rectum, and these nerves enjoy stimulation as much as those in other "erogenous zones" do. In fact, stimulation of the anus at the time of orgasm often results in a much more intense orgasm.
Etc., etc., etc., etc. For sources, simply search "pleasure nerves in anus" with Google. It is very quick to access accurate information from credible sources in such a manner.
Perhaps if you spent less time attempting to put me down with clumsy insults and more time with your in-depth studying, you would have some actual facts to share with us? 
 Peace.
FWG, another post demostrating you incapacity to put 2 + 2 together. It's funny that I was even going to post this myself earlier:
"Anal intercourse can be pleasurable for both the insertive partner and the receptive partner. For females, pleasure from anal intercourse is also thought to be related to the shared wall between the rectum and the vagina as well as the G-spot. For males, the tightness of the anus is often said to be a source of pleasure in penetrative anal sex, while the presence of the prostate gland near the rectal wall is generally seen as a source of pleasure during receptive anal intercourse. Other animals have also been observed practicing anal intercourse."
as it explained where the stimulation in anal sex comus from, which is not directly from nerves
"Pleasure nerves" was making it basic because I don't know if people are familiar with terms and unlike you I do not care to impress by a linguistic demonstration.
Nerves does not equal pleasure, and the anus receives its erogenous zone quality from a source that is not actually in the anus, or lining the anus. The anus does not even require penetration to stimulate the prostate gland.
I shouldn't even bother commenting on the quality of your rediculous post but let's get real hear, FWG - you appear to be a basement philosopher withought schooling who seems to not even understand the implications of the material he posts himself - such as the above quote, which is in support of my post. It somewhat seems that you will assume any thought that pops into your head is the final verdict on a subject. I think you have poor deciphering skills and rely on post sabotaging rather than bringing factual information to the table and then giving it a proper analysis.
I just put the creases out of your last post. Notice that I explain things in a manner that increases understanding. Notice that your post was nothing but dull jabs on my post and out of context information without discernment to its meaning.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5665452 - 05/23/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
Stratified epithelium: two to many cell layers
* Stratified squamous Keratinized (cornified, dry) --surface cells non-nucleated and dead with cell membranes indistinct. (example: Epidermis)
Non-keratinized (non-cornified, moist) --surface cells are nucleated and alive with cell membranes more distinct. (examples: oral cavity, esophagus, anus, vagina, etc)
Anal and vaginal tissues are the same type of tissue, with the same type of cellular structure. You have provided no support for your assertions regarding either the physical nature of these tissues OR the "appropriateness" of their use in sexual intercourse.
Many types of sexual contact are possible, pleasurable and desireable to humans. To use inaccurate anatomical claims in order to prove the point that some types of sex are OK and some are not is absurd.
I did not claim that the anus was better protected than the vagina, I said that it was equally vulnerable. I claimed that the penis was better protected and more resistant to tearing. Since the penis is obviously designed for sexual intercourse, and the vagina is not, women should not have sex. Only male-male manual intercourse is designed to avoid all STD's and tearing, so it must be the only appropriate method. 
Give me a break. If you and your partner have not tested clean for STD's, you should be using a condom. If you use lubrication and a condom, it matters little where you stick it. (Except subjectively, of course. )
Who am I to say what's OK or not? I will only say how something works from a biological level, you do what you want with that. The anus is more vulneravle than the vagina because it tears more easily and it is thru these tears that diseases enter. Having the same method of protection does not mean that protection is provided to the same level.
Quote:
Since the penis is obviously designed for sexual intercourse, and the vagina is not, women should not have sex. Only male-male manual intercourse is designed to avoid all STD's and tearing, so it must be the only appropriate method. 
Your conclusion is not one that I share, neither is the rediculous information that you used to reach that conclusion. So if that's an attempt to mock what I do think then it obvously falls flat on its face since it can't be related. Oh ya, if you make up some garbage and then pretend that the other person is the one who supports that belief it makes them look silly... wait, no, it shows something unflattering about yourself. Grow up a little.
And I would not use terms such as "natural" or "unnatural" except that they were already in use in the thread as the going terms. I might say the biological body shows no signs of provision for homosexual relations whereas it does when it comes to heterosexual relations.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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We get it.
Bum sex isn't your bag
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
In adults, the anus is about an inch and a half long, and it has a lining that contains blood vessels, sensitive nerve endings and six to eight small anal glands.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9396.html
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The anus, richly endowed with nerve endings and interconnected with the main pelvic muscles, is the closest erogenous neighbor of the genitals and contracts rhythmically during orgasm.
With its high concentration of nerve endings, the anus can produce extreme agony when it is mistreated. Yet it can be a source of great pleasure.
The highest concentration of nerve endings is around the anal opening itself. A finger can focus on them especailly effectively. When an object or penis is inserted beyond the anal opening into the rectum, other pleasures are involved. The outer protion of the rectum, like the vagina, has several nerve endings. The inner portion responds mostly to pressure.
http://www.sexuality.org/authors/morin/analrule.html
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Your anus (asshole) is the opening to your anal canal. It has the ability to open quite wide without much difficulty, and is loaded with sensitive nerve endings.
http://tperkins.com/anal/anal_anatomy.html
Fireworks' quote was from Wikipedia, an article which does not discuss the actual anatomy of the anus. As you can see, the anus does include "pleasure nerves" (as you so quaintly put it for those of us who read at a third-grade level.)
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Disco Cat said: I might say the biological body shows no signs of provision for homosexual relations whereas it does when it comes to heterosexual relations.
Er...nope. We all have mouths and anuses, both of which can be mixed pleasurably with our differing sex organs. That means that our biological bodies are ready and able to enjoy both homosexual and heterosexual relations. (And they DO! )
My body is just as capable of enjoying oral and manual stimulation with another woman (if I chose to partake) as it is of enjoying vaginal or anal sex with a man. My nerve endings respond, my endocrine system floods my brain and body with hormones, my arousal and eventual orgasmic release are the same.
Your facts are inaccurate, and you still have not provided any support for your ass-ertions.
Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 04:53 PM)
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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once again, you have put words in my mouth, which is a really big pet peeve of mine.
I hang out with gay people all the time! I even hang out with gay people who don't even know they are gay! But I know.
I'm not uncomfortable around THEM. I am uncomfortable around their ACTS.
Am I supposed to stand up and applaud for things I find distasteful? Am I supposed to PAY for things I find distasteful? Tell you what, I'll pay for it, but I won't cheer about it.
Now who's the bigger man?
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5665516 - 05/23/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think you're acting a bit odd since you're talking like gays have sex in public or something. The "act" that you find so offensive is probably something you've never even witnessed before. Well, unless your gay friends have sex in front of you
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5665517 - 05/23/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
In adults, the anus is about an inch and a half long, and it has a lining that contains blood vessels, sensitive nerve endings and six to eight small anal glands.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9396.html
Quote:
The anus, richly endowed with nerve endings and interconnected with the main pelvic muscles, is the closest erogenous neighbor of the genitals and contracts rhythmically during orgasm.
With its high concentration of nerve endings, the anus can produce extreme agony when it is mistreated. Yet it can be a source of great pleasure.
The highest concentration of nerve endings is around the anal opening itself. A finger can focus on them especailly effectively. When an object or penis is inserted beyond the anal opening into the rectum, other pleasures are involved. The outer protion of the rectum, like the vagina, has several nerve endings. The inner portion responds mostly to pressure.
http://www.sexuality.org/authors/morin/analrule.html
Quote:
Your anus (asshole) is the opening to your anal canal. It has the ability to open quite wide without much difficulty, and is loaded with sensitive nerve endings.
http://tperkins.com/anal/anal_anatomy.html
Fireworks' quote was from Wikipedia, an article which does not discuss the actual anatomy of the anus. As you can see, the anus does include "pleasure nerves" (as you so quaintly put it for those of us who read at a third-grade level.)
Your facts are inaccurate, and you still have not provided any support for your ass-ertions.
You mistakenly think you've refuted something. I've commented on the nerve endings and when it comes to anus nerves you and your sources are refering to a masochist form of "pleasure" while the actual pleasure is coming from the prostate and the erotic environment.
I am not going on a net search to argue some kids who dream up their truth over a subject which I said in my first post is not much of an interest to me.
All information I have given is based on a presentation during a larger college course, provided by a local hospital and presented by their doctors. Now who the fuck should I going to listen to, some uneducated forum-goer who doesn't comprehend his own informaiton or the medical professionals, who've worked surgerys on patients with damaged rectums - and provided slides of many of their cases? Sorry, you're out.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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If you bothered to check my links, you might notice that the source for the first quote is the Aetna IntelliHealth site, with data provided by Harvard Medical School. Perhaps your local doc is a little out of the loop when it comes to anal anatomy.
The anus and rectum are not the same thing. (See my links, provided for your further education). The rectum is, indeed, not endowed with an abundance of nerve endings. The anus, however, is rich in nerve endings and a great source of pleasure during anal sex.
This arrangement is actually very similar to the vagina, as the nerve endings are situated in the first few inches, and sensation beyond that point is more about "fullness."
You have asserted that we are not designed to enjoy homosexual intercourse, but the facts simply do not support this assertion. Have you another source for your claims besides your memory of Doc Bakker's lecture on rectal ruptures at Podunk Community College? Oh, right...you can't be bothered to support your arguments with any actual (factual) data. 
I have not only provided you with links for every single one of my quoted facts, I also base my assertions upon my personal experience with anal sex AND a course in Human Sexuality. Masters and Johnson? Kinsey? Ring any bells with you? I thought not.
When you must resort to absurd personalisms such as calling me an uneducated kid, when you have no idea of my level of education or age, it is clear that you cannot prove your points through actual debate methods. 'Nuff said.
Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 05:21 PM)
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5665665 - 05/23/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: The anus and rectum are not the same thing. (See my links, provided for your further education). The rectum is, indeed, not endowed with an abundance of nerve endings. The anus, however, is rich in nerve endings and a great source of pleasure during anal sex. ....
You have asserted that we are not designed to enjoy homosexual intercourse, but the facts simply do not support this assertion. Have you another source for your claims besides your memory of Doc Bakker's lecture on rectal ruptures at Podunk Community College? Oh, right...you can't be bothered to support your arguments with any actual (factual) data. 
I have not only provided you with links for every single one of my quoted facts, I also base my assertions upon my personal experience with anal sex AND a course in Human Sexuality. Masters and Johnson? Kinsey? Ring any bells with you? I thought not.
When you must resort to absurd personalisms such as calling me an uneducated kid, when you have no idea of my level of education or age, it is clear that you cannot prove your points through actual debate methods. 'Nuff said.
Designed what do you consider that means? If the human body had no design to it there would be no human body - it has nothing to do with religion. I'm not responsible for your jumping to conclusions.
Btw, your ridiculing the presentation I received, the college it took place at, and the hospital and medical professionals that conducted it really showed that you do, in fact, know what you're talking about, that your information (which is not even contradicting my comments) has shown that homosexual sex is just as intended as supported by the human body as heterosexual sex. Really. No I mean it, really. Or maybe...
Your personal experience with anal sex counts for jack all and you should know that without me mentioning it. I suppose your dick saw what was happening to the rectum wall during your sex, and it had a pleasant conversation with a vagina in which they discovered all about each other's workings, intentions and origins.
A course in human sexuality, wow, that's top level right there. Tells us right away that there's no bias, that they're discussion in technical terms rather than sensual ones, sure.
Nice to mention Kinsey and Masters & Johnson. However they focus a lot more on the psychology, sensuality and manipulation of sex for the purpose of increasing pleasure. Not exactly material I'd use to prove an argument on our subject of discussion.
Absurd personalisms? You have demonstrated that you're uneducated, your data supported my claims and you ignore context. If you aren't uneducated then you are biased, as many are, out of fear of being labeled discriminatory or hateful - claims with no basis. There are no debate "methods," this isn't a game, there's just one truth behind every matter. Just because you partake in an activity doesn't mean the truth is always going to enforece that activity - but this is the stance you seem to be taking.
Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 05:50 PM)
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Basilides
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Just a question.. if anal sex wasn't pleasurable, why do people do it?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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Who says it isn't pleasurable? Quote me, please, then I'll put that quote back into context for you.
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Basilides
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So you agree it can be pleasurable. If so, why?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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because it stimulates the prostate or the g-spot (the g-spot can be stinulated thru vaginal sex, the prostate can be stimulated by pressure from the outside, or shallow insertion with anything - a penis fully inserted can easily cause damage). On top of that eroticism is suggested, not imposed.
http://www.narth.com/docs/attemptstomodify.html
If sexuality is changeable then the "born that way" theory is out the window. Therefore there can be claimed that there is a "proper" (word used loosely) and improper to the subject. This would be evaluated based on the purposes and reprecussions of separate actions. This also brings to question the issue of sex-orientation's origin. Evironment can only be claimed so far - I am much more inclined to attribute it to an individual person's conlusion and insight, which might be based on experiences, or might be based on incomplete information in their own understanding.
http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzer3.html
Reading for additional contemplation, but not directly supporting anything: [url=http://www.narth.com/docs/recent.html]Studies on Homosexuality and Mental Health[/url] Gender Differences Are Real http://www.narth.com/docs/fathers.html
Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 06:19 PM)
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Basilides
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I see your points on physiology, but psychologically, it is highly unproductive and unhealthy for homosexuals to under-go "conversion theraphy". There is no point to it either.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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I do not know of the health implications, however the study does not just claim that someone can behave as tho they were of the opposite sexual orientation, but discovers that sexual-orientation can be entirely shifted. Therefore homosexuality cannot be proved by the desire of homosexualty, just like the outcome is not proved by the outcome, but by the cause. I'm not suggesting I know a cause, I'm saying if a cause is not known & the functions are not shown to be supported, then, while there is knowledge which gives good reasons to think homosexuality lacks an intended fulfillment on an emotional, psychological, or physical level, I wouldn't go around blowing the gay pride trumpet.
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Basilides
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Why is it so important that we know what "causes" it? It's irrelevant what the cause of homosexuality is.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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Why? Is discovering the cause of a medical disease irrelevant? I don't mean homosexuality, but the dicovery or cause is what will help us define what it is exactly, whether it is beneficial or not, whether something can or should be done about it. It is very possible that homosexuality is a disease in the manner that depression is a disease. People with depression could hate to be told that there's something wrong with them and so make a depresion-pride movement.
Then people on forums would not tolerate someone commenting to say that they don't think depression is "natural," and they would be self-righteous in their ignorance. But they would swear up and down that it is as "valid" as happiness. In the same manner that perhaps it is right to be "cured" of depression all current knowledge bears the tone that the outcome might be the same for homosexuality.
A while ago I read a really thorough study that took the claim of homosexuality being natural in the animal kingdom (a myth which was based on a single documentary which turned out to have faulty data) and examining each example was able to discover that homosexual-orientation is really not present in animals at all. I am looking for that article now, but why would homosexuality be "natural" in humans if it isn't in animals?
By the way, I really appreciate your asking questions and discussing this withought a biased look at each sentence.
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Basilides
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Largely in part why it's irrelevant I believe is because, regardless its origins, homosexuality appears to be intractable in either case. Whether gays are "born that way" is definately up to debate, however just because one isn't born that way doesn't mean that homosexuality is not intractable. Even the sexually "converted" contend that their attractions to those of the same gender will always remain, conversion therapy seems to be more or less a regression therapy, which is why the American Psychological Association has spoken against the conversion movement as profoundly mentally unhealthy.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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I found the Animal Homosexuality Myth study, here it is: The Animal Homosexuality Myth
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DoctorJ


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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5666003 - 05/23/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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hey veritas!
you seem to confuse love with sex and prettiness with real beauty a LOT.
perhaps in your next life I will teach you how wrong you are.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Btw, your ridiculing the presentation I received, the college it took place at, and the hospital and medical professionals that conducted it really showed that you do, in fact, know what you're talking about,
Yes, exactly my point about your many personalisms. I guess it is different when you are mocking others than it is when your sources are being mocked, though. 
Quote:
Your personal experience with anal sex counts for jack all and you should know that without me mentioning it. I suppose your dick saw what was happening to the rectum wall during your sex, and it had a pleasant conversation with a vagina in which they discovered all about each other's workings, intentions and origins.
I'm not a guy. 
Quote:
A course in human sexuality, wow, that's top level right there. Tells us right away that there's no bias, that they're discussion in technical terms rather than sensual ones
Nice to mention Kinsey and Masters & Johnson. However they focus a lot more on the psychology, sensuality and manipulation of sex for the purpose of increasing pleasure. Not exactly material I'd use to prove an argument on our subject of discussion.
Are you familiar at all with the Kinsey Report or the "in-depth" physiological research conducted by Masters and Johnson? Oh...guess not. If you had taken a University course in Human Sexuality, instead of a medical class in rectum ruptures, perhaps you would have a grasp of sexual anatomy.
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There are no debate "methods,"
Yes, there are actually. (Humorous examples, but actual structure: http://www.ninjapirate.com/logic.html)
Just because you are completely unaware of them does not mean they do not exist. Similarly, just because your anus is not a source of pleasure for you, does not mean it has no nerve endings or is not "suited" for sexual intercourse.
BTW, it is very interesting to me that, when you finally decide to post links to sources, you post many links to ONE source: the National Association of Rehabilitation and Therapy for Homosexuality (NARTH.) They certainly wouldn't have any bias!! 
Homosexuality in animals (from agencies NOT involved in so-called re-orientation therapy):
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=27742
http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvolution.html
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n1_v151/ai_19027025
http://www.echonyc.com/~stone/Features/BioExEssay.html
Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 08:56 PM)
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Disco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
#5666628 - 05/23/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Where's the substance Veritas? Somehow, The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality becomes: "the National Association of Rehabilitation and Therapy for Homosexuality " Is this supposed to be a joke? You just make shit up and attempt to use it as a proof of biasedness? You've lost Veritas, you didn't need to shame yourself with such low methods as blatant intentional misrepresentation. That one was the worst yet. I'm suprised that you'd conduct yourself like that. I hope no-one will take your word as meaning anything valuable any further on this issue.
Find me the bias in the works. You don't just make up a name and then display your phony title as cause to dismiss the work, that's just disgraceful for you. Find the fault in the work or don't post at all.
That site evaluates many studies by activist groups and they always analyze the information in full explanation to see if it stands or falls - they never slap bullshit titles on their opposition and say that's that. I believe some of those reports of animal homosexuality you posted are even found faulty in the source I gave.
Quote:
In summary, the homosexual movement's attempt to establish that homosexuality is in accordance with human nature, by proving its animal homosexuality theory, is based more on mythological beliefs and erroneous philosophical tenets than on science.
Give it a read Veritas, come back when you have something relevent. http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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How about addressing the rest of her remarks.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Disco Cat
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Such as what? Providing links to information I learned in a presentation, not from online pages I looked up 30 seconds before posting?
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Basilides
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NARTH is not exactly an unbiased research group. From what I understand it's largely funded by socially conservative lobby groups. It's also a private organization. But that's besides the point.
Why does it matter if homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom or not? I've seen two male dogs get it on once, I'm not sure what that meant or if it meets the criteria of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, but I doubt it's at all important. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here. The A.P.A. has asserted time and time again that conversion attempts in regard to sexual orientation are psychologically unhealthy. Gayness is not a problem for society or anyone, so I'm not sure why you're making a big deal over it.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
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It's not a big deal, people can do as they wish with their sexuality. I'm trying to look at the facts of its workings on a physiological level, and I'm not sure I appreciate that being twisted to sound like I'm descriminating against a group of people.
People can choose all sorts of things for themselves, but that doesn't make it right to claim a nontruth in order to support it. So far I don't see conclusive information factoring in homosexuality as "natural."
It looks like people don't want to search to know the truth in this thread, they just want approval for their pre-existing viewpoint. Basilides, I think you were the only one to provide reasonable responses.
I'm leaving this thread.
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Basilides
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It seems to me, by referring to groups like NARTH, that you believe homosexuality is something that should be changed. Explore the origins of sexuality all you wish, but by referring to groups like NARTH you're throwing your position into a biased conundrum in itself, as the specific goal of NARTH is therapeutic conversion, methods that basically fly in the face of the American Psychological Association's official stance on the matter.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Ped
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Edit:
Note: this reply is meant for FWG, not Basilides, as erroneously specified in the post title.
>> Are you equally agansit Boy Scouts of America parades? The last time I checked, it was all right to form a group and to celebrate the group and its aspects.
This does not address my point. I am not against demonstrations because they are demonstrations, I am against demonstrations which serve only to foment conflict, and not to increase awareness.
>> I guess it is crude and obnoxious to make an example of the fact that one can practice ones right when another group refutes and denies ones rights, eh?
This does not address my point. I don't find it crude and obnoxious to stand up for ones rights; I find it crude and obnoxious to exaggerate the contrast between one group and another. This is irrespective of whether or not one group oppresses the other.
The in-your-face-now-deal-with-it behaviour of much of the gay community is as oppressive as the behaviour of those who tailor the law against their civil rights.
>> Cultural diversity is to be cherished and celebrated. It isn't a negative display when Native Americans hold a pow-wow, is it? Community should not be homogenized, just as genetics should not be. Variety is the spice of life, variety is responsible for the continued existance of life. Why do you feel that variety should not be recognized, demonstrated, reveled?
This does address my point. I am not speaking against demonstrations which celebrate diversity; I am speaking against demonstrations which serve to increase divisiveness, be it directly through intention or indirectly through ignorance and self-importance.
>> Is that their fault? A black man walking down a street in the South, perhaps glancing at a white woman has stirred up discontent in the white people in the area, actually inciting the hatred that the white men carried in their hearts, bringing them to murder the black man.
Anyone with insight into the issue can plainly see that the black man was not serving to advance black rights by actively practicing black rights.
The demonstrations I'm speaking of, and the intention I recognize behind them, are over and above the mere exercise of civil liberty. Suppose the same black man were to confront an armed white man, knowing the hatred he has for him, saying "I am black and I have rights and your daughter and I will sleep together whether you like it or not." If the white man attacks the black man and murders him, this is an atrocity. At the same time, however, it was foolish of the black man to make such a confrontation. He was not merely exercising his rights, nor was he merely standing up for them, he was instigating a conflict through deliberately provocative behaviour, the circumstances of which he was sufficiently cognisant of to make a better judgement.
This example might be a bit extreme, but it reflects the point.
>> Society is a complacent firehouse that will not reach for its extinguishers unless it is a blazing forest fire. If there is a societal problem, it needs to be magnifed. Otherwise, society will shrug and continue on its normal routine.
This has been the method our society uses to know itself for thousands of years, and it is still a miserable society fundamentally divided against itself, at war with itself, constantly struggling against the momentum of it's own disintegration.
The way to oppose divisiveness is with acceptance, not confrontation. The way to oppose hatred is with love, not aggression.
>> Please explain to me very consisely and with vivid imagery the difference between the struggle for gay rights and the civil rights movement of the '60's.
There is very little difference.
If you check carefully, there is as strong an undercurrent of racism in our society today as there was 50 years ago when black women were not allowed to sit at the front of the bus. Sure, black people have their rights; they can vote, have jobs, get an equal education, have equal opportunities; they are free from slavery, etc., but they are still widely hated. Very little has been done to address the attitude behind depriving their rights in the first place. Instead, the whole focus has been on securing rights on paper.
The same occurs now within the gay community. Very little attention is paid to the socio-psychological problem that gives rise to homophobia, as well as the inclination of lawmakers to oppress their civil liberties. Instead, a tremendous noise has been made, not for the sake of encouraging understanding and fellowship, but for forcing society to comply with the wishes of the minority group.
When one group, be it a majority group or a minority group, employs aggression as a means of forcing conformity, it seeds resentment and perpetuates the root of the problem: ignorance, divisiveness, and it's fruit, hatred. That is what occurred between the black community and the caucasian community, and it is what is occurring now between the homosexual and heterosexual communities.
Even if all gay rights are secured throughout the world, the problem will continue to ferment just below the surface, where it is relatively easy to ignore.
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
Edited by Ped (05/23/06 11:03 PM)
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Basilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
#5666823 - 05/23/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Who was that response meant for?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Icelander
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Some how I think she has spent as much time in college studying human sexuality as you have. In fact maybe much more. You assume much about the person you are debating with. Like telling her she doesn't know much how a womans vagina feels. Can you share any personal experience in the sexual realm as far as anal intercourse is concerned. Any lab work? I have and I know that my anus has lots of feeling in it long before it gets near my prostate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
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I think this calls for a good old fashioned experiment.
Anyone got a banana?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain



Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Sorry, my reply was meant for FWG.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
#5666972 - 05/23/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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As for your post..
You have excellect points. The French historian/philosopher Michel Foucault contended that most, if not all contemporary homophobia (other than religiousity-based homophobia) is mostly a reaction to identity politics in respect to LGBT communities. Foucault was gay himself, and it was his belief that "gay pride" etc. merely reinforced an identity that was already reactionary to the treatment of gays in society. Originally it was society that was cruel towards gays when an "us versus them" approach was taken. The same approach is taken by gay activists who salivate over the slightest homophobic remark, potential celebrities who might be gay, etc. Heck, some gay activists are even in the business of outting "homo-cons"; known socially conservative people who happen to also be gay.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
Icelander said: You assume much about the person you are debating with. Like telling her she doesn't know much how a womans vagina feels.
WTF 
It wasn't sexuality I studied in college, however the presentation was on the different sex related damages that the hospital deals with and why they're caused.
Edited by Disco Cat (05/24/06 12:45 AM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Nerves does not equal pleasure, and the anus receives its erogenous zone quality from a source that is not actually in the anus, or lining the anus. The anus does not even require penetration to stimulate the prostate gland.
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The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.
As in, the anus itself. Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex. Perhaps the reason your head is so far up your own ass is because you are the only one who does not have sensation in your anus? 
The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your ignorance and your childish attitude aren't worth the time.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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So far I don't see conclusive information factoring in homosexuality as "natural."
I really don't get what you mean by natural? Do you really mean normal? I grew up on a farm. Guess some of those animals had a "disease". I tend to look at any behavior engaged in as natural. All life is natural to me and unnatural is an illusion. The fact that humans engage in homosexual activity makes it natural whether the majority engage in it or not. I'm amused that anyone cares a hoot about someone elses activity enough to label it. Unless of course they have insecurities around the activity or have a religious adjenda. That's common enough.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/24/06 10:41 AM)
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.
As in, the anus itself. Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex. Perhaps the reason your head is so far up your own ass is because you are the only one who does not have sensation in your anus?  The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your ignorance and your childish attitude aren't worth the time.
Says the pseudo-philosopher who time and time again shows his self-invented metaphysics to be devoid of reality. Remeber that post where I exampled how to post like FWG? "No susbstance, all empty jabs?" 
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says FWG: Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex.
Maybe, but I think that's unfairly insulting a pretty broad crowd. 
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I really don't get what you mean by natural? Do you really mean normal?
I already explained what I mean, you could go back and find it. I said that it was a sketchy word to describe what I want to express and that it is not the religious version. I gave a better description, but it took an entire sectence to explain whereas "natural" was just referencing that sentence by a single word.
Quote:
I grew up on a farm. Guess some of those animals had a "disease".
You can read the article I posted about animal homosexuality, and I'll be happy to read your comments.
Edited by Disco Cat (05/24/06 04:29 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Says the wannabe-philosophic fool who time and time again shows his self-invented metaphysics to be devoid of reality. Remeber that post where I exampled how to post like FWG? "No content, all empty jabs?" Keep up the evidence. 
Hell, no one else can demonstrate how my points are not reflective of reality, especially not you, so I might as well do it myself. 
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says FWG: Go to your local hospital and ask for some examples you fucking moron 
Exactly, I am sure there are examples of fucking morons who improperly engaged in anal sex, and paid a trip to the hospital as a result. A lot of fucking morons go to the hospital for treatment of their injuries and illness that result from their being a moron. What can you do, beyond make a lame attempt to state that homosexuality is not natural? 
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I've already explained what I mean, go back and look for it. I said that it was a sketchy word to describe what I want to express and that it is not the religious version. I gave a better description, but it took an entire sectence to explain whereas "natural" was just referencing that sentence by a single word.
You haven't in any way explained what you meant, or exactly what your point is. What is your point? What are you speaking about? You've warned us that the anus is not as suited for insertion of a penis as the vagina is, and you've also incorrectly stated that the anus is without "pleasure nerves".
So, is that it? Did you just want to let us know that people who do not know how to properly have anal sex might tear it or get disease? What else are you clumsily attempting to comment on, beyond that and also commenting on my personal character and nature (I know, its impossible to resist, people envy me and lash out at me because they simply cannot be me).
Clear and concise now, what's your point?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: It wasn't sexuality I studied in college, however the presentation was on the different sex related damages that the hospital deals with and why they're caused.
So your limited perspective is pretty much akin to the perspective that police might tend to develop concerning the nature of drug users - as only the really stupid drug users who probably have criminal tendencies are the ones getting busted, they are the only drug users that they deal with, and thus they form an opinion on the effects of drugs solely based upon that. 
Once again, what's your point, now? Great, the anus isn't as suited to a penis as the vagina is. And......... so what?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
#5669379 - 05/24/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ped said: If you check carefully, there is as strong an undercurrent of racism in our society today as there was 50 years ago when black women were not allowed to sit at the front of the bus. Sure, black people have their rights; they can vote, have jobs, get an equal education, have equal opportunities; they are free from slavery, etc., but they are still widely hated. Very little has been done to address the attitude behind depriving their rights in the first place. Instead, the whole focus has been on securing rights on paper.
First and foremost, I don't believe that black people are still "widely hated". I'm not sure what exactly you are basing that on. 
The benefits from the civil rights movement are obvious. Regardless of whether or not there is a subtle negative attitude or distinction agansit blacks amongst certain individuals or groups, they have gained a lot of ground, the ground that matters most.
The focus has not been on securing rights on paper, although that certainly has helped. Black people are no longer lynched, they are free to act in the same manners as white people. If one cannot discern the difference between the general state of being black now as compared to the 1950's, or to recognize how important this difference is, then there is a problem.
An individual or group's rights need to be secured first, even if it is simply forced/legislated tolerance. The attitudes of others will subtly change with the times. Give the gays their rights, give it time, and see how things change. I think it is unrealistic to think that it is negative for them to take a stand in the manners that they have. It is necessary in order for the question of their rights and their position within society to be directly addressed, even if conflict arises as a result. It is not their fault if their actions forment hatred in others, and the fact that their actions could forment such hatred and violence in others demonstrates that they need to act.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
Edited by fireworks_god (05/24/06 04:45 PM)
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Exactly, I am sure there are examples of fucking morons who improperly engaged in anal sex, and paid a trip to the hospital as a result. A lot of fucking morons go to the hospital for treatment of their injuries and illness that result from their being a moron. What can you do, beyond make a lame attempt to state that homosexuality is not natural?
Your comments won't be relevent until you actually read the thread. Please feel free to read the post above yours to get a clue on me saying "Natural." 
Quote:
You haven't in any way explained what you meant, or exactly what your point is. What is your point? What are you speaking about? You've warned us that the anus is not as suited for insertion of a penis as the vagina is, and you've also incorrectly stated that the anus is without "pleasure nerves".
Not my fault you have problems with reading or comprehension 
Maybe you'll tell us exactly which parts of your anus give you your indentified sensations of pleasure, and also tell how you bring those about. Then we'll see where their source lies. You've warped things by claiming that I suggested the lack of nerves in the anus. 
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So, is that it? Did you just want to let us know that people who do not know how to properly have anal sex might tear it or get disease? What else are you clumsily attempting to comment on, beyond that and also commenting on my personal character and nature (I know, its impossible to resist, people envy me and lash out at me because they simply cannot be me).

Quote:
Clear and concise now, what's your point?
It's entertaining that you'd try to make your ego trip sound like a rational plea  If you want to continue this then why don't you start using solid data, and take that data to mean all that can be logically claimed about it and nothing more. Start by explaining the sensations you get in your anus, how you cause them in individual areas and their suspected source, since this is the piece of informaion you show an interest in bringing up. The prostate is stimulated beginning from the exterior of the anus, FYI, by pressure on the chode.
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Once again, what's your point, now? Great, the anus isn't as suited to a penis as the vagina is. And......... so what?
Sounds like you're beginning to understand.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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By the way everybody, I wanted to apologize for the rude way I conducted myself yesterday. 48 hours of no sleep over 2 working days had me in a very impatient and grumpy mood. I meant my claims, but the way I put them out there was overly hostile and I'm sorry for that.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I was having one of those days myself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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michael_lifshitz
Student


Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 436
Loc: here
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
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For the record. I don't understand anything I have read in this thread about gays and naturalness.
How is something unnatural?
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl. 2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment. 3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
I would argue homosexuality falls into all of those.
Not to mention, who cares, it is a choice.
Saying someone is not allowed to choose is well, rediculous.
Next lets argue free speech!
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Mother Nature created homosexuality to cut down on the problems of over-population.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: On gayness [Re: Sinbad]
#5669712 - 05/24/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Mother Nature created homosexuality to cut down on the problems of over-population.
You may not be far off. I heard that one study showed a correlation between homosexuality and stress levels in the mother during pregnancy. One cause of such high stress levels can be overpopulation.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: Sinbad]
#5669828 - 05/24/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Mother Nature created homosexuality to cut down on the problems of over-population.
now thats a good theory. One of the many things I appreciate about homosexuals is that they are not breeders. I'm always down for people who can have sex without having kids.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: By the way everybody, I wanted to apologize for the rude way I conducted myself yesterday. 48 hours of no sleep over 2 working days had me in a very impatient and grumpy mood. I meant my claims, but the way I put them out there was overly hostile and I'm sorry for that.
I apologize for my mocking remarks about your college class.
This issue is a hot spot for me, as many close friends throughout my life have been subjected to discrimination based upon their sexual orientation. I was brought up to believe that personal preference, whether it takes the form of love or sexual attraction, was the deciding factor in whether a relationship "should" occur.
I am offended and repulsed by pseudo-scientific reasons for bigotry and hatred, and I strongly object to sexual preference being classified as a disease or mental illness. Homosexuality is not something to be fixed. The stigma surrounding legitimate affectional and sexual preferences is ridiculously outdated and oppressive.
Let's move on & let other adults love and fuck their partners. Big deal.
Edited by Veritas (05/24/06 10:27 PM)
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
#5671533 - 05/25/06 04:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Lets not forget they make fine singers, pianists, cooks, artists and interior designers
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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One thing I dislike about some of the homosexual people I know, is that they parade around me and try to hammer it into me that they are gay and different/better than me; these are people I personally know, I am not generalizing about the entire gay population.
Basically, when they continually have to press upon me that they are in fact, gay, I get the feeling that they are really confused about themselves and it annoys me that they can't just be comfortable with it and just let it be. Hell, I know they are gay, they know it, why the hell do they keep telling me it or stressing to me how much better the gay culture is than the straight culture?
I don't know what I am really trying to say. Probably I am just trying to say, if you are gay, kudos for you, I commend you for the tough road that you probably traversed to get to this point in life, but if you must continually express to EVERYONE how gay you are, then I think you still have some underlying issues that need to be addressed.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: On gayness [Re: Syle]
#5672498 - 05/25/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Things like this are a matter of degree. I've been thinking about this and in the end it seems to me that being gay is just one other of the many ways that we express ourselves and that includes the dysfunctional parts. But to isolate it from the matrix of all the behaviors that we as humans exhibit is not to look at the issue rationally. Our own prejudice and fears creep in.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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I agree here. The issues of being overly open almost to the point of obnoxiousness that I discussed that I have with my homosexual friends, would most likely be the same for any other type of facet in life.
For instance, if one of my heterosexual friends got married, and talked about nothing else than their marriage, I would probably get real annoyed with them after a while.
I was basically speaking from the standpoint on homosexuals because that was what this thread was about. And I see that what I talked about has come up a few times in other peoples posts and I thought maybe my reasoning and logic behind my "uncomfortable" feelings might shed some light on other people's reasons.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
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Re: On gayness [Re: Redstorm]
#5675658 - 05/26/06 01:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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mis-post
Edited by TacticalBongRip (05/26/06 01:21 AM)
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TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Disco Cat said: You really need me to spell it out? The human body is not suited for actions which
It isn't suited for such actions, eh? By what standard? Comparison to the vagina? The body is not suited for oral sex then, either, eh? Are you aware that the vagina's walls can tear as well?
The human body tends to not be too well suited for dairy products either, eh? Big fucking deal. 
Quote:
That's not the context of validity I was talking about at all. Once again FWG is behind the grade, big suprise.
Oh, so you were discussing some topic that did not pertain to the actual subject being discussed then, great. Homosexuality, being gay, does not equal "anal sex", and the context of whether or not anal sex is natural does not really pertain to the discussion on being gay that is being held.
I apologize for assuming that you would have actually been discussing something of direct relevance to the topic. 
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No, that's a truth, not the truth of all angles of this discussion. I'm not talking about the lifestyle choice, or whether it's there to make.
Spell it out, pure and simple. Remember, you are dealing with a fucking moron here. What exactly is your point, then, if you are not discussing what I had assumed you were discussing?
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No it wasn't, nice of you to go all out on the drama tho.
Ahh, but it refered to a specific design and intended usage. Evolution, physical reality, does not have intention or specific design, simply different aspects that are what they are, and thus a notion of suitability.
So the anus is not as suitable as a vagina for insertion of the penis. Super. Thus, anal sex is not natural. Profound conclusion. Utterly profound. 
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A place you're not too familiar with, let's call it Knowledge thru in depth study.
So, you've studied, in depth, the nature of anal sex? Hhhm.... 
How in depth are we talking here? 
 Peace.
i couldn't help but laugh my ass off , especially that part at the end 
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