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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4372559 -

You may find this mildly entertaining...

Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal:
http://www.rawilson.com/csicon.shtml

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Phluck]
    #4372822 -

What it requires (surprise, surprise) is a government grant!

Any 'scientific study' can be fundamentally biased because it is based on money/power and not science.

The government gives the money and expects certain results for their money. The scientific community are fully aware that if the results are not as desired then they're often altered or ommitted to keep the grants coming into that area of research.

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4372837 -

>>>definitive experiments

My point being that many aspects of the paranormal have been demonstrated to be consistantly producing results yet the results have been ignored for centuries by science.

I will provide more 2mor :yawn:


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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4372863 -

You haven't provided anything yet...


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Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4372901 -

The government gives the money and expects certain results for their money. The scientific community are fully aware that if the results are not as desired then they're often altered or ommitted to keep the grants coming into that area of research.

Did you read the thing I pasted? Do you think that the reason the ideas changed there had something to do with government grants?

I recall there being some accusations regarding the US government pressuring ecologists to have certain results, but surely you're not assuming that a single incident of corruption is enough evidence to assume that EVERYONE is corrupt.

Were you aware that there are many scientists who hold opposing opinions that all receive grants? How could this be possible if their opinions and results are based entirely on how much money they receive?

Also, if scientific results are based on bribery, then how come we're developing so much new technology, creating new and effective medical procedures, and discovering new forms of life around the world?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4372914 -

My point being that many aspects of the paranormal have been demonstrated to be consistantly producing results yet the results have been ignored for centuries by science.

Well, if they were ignored, there wouldn't be all those criticisms about how the experiments were conducted, now would there?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Swami]
    #4373015 -

Swami said:
So science has failed and we are not really communicating via a complex web of electrons and sensors?


If science had not came to a wall, we would communicate much faster (faster than speed of light) and do much more interesting things, live forever, need no food, travel to other galaxies etc etc. Science has its limits today, there is much more room for progress. As long as we are smaller than the universe there is more room for progress.
Once the size of universe means nothing to us, we might say that we are nearing the end of science.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4373050 -

it seems funny to me that someone is attacking science. sure science doesnt recognize the paranormal but why does it matter. do you need someone to recognize what you believe in to make it true. and they are making progress to recognizing the bizzare, just give it time its hard for people to accept something they dont understand yet. cryptozoology is something you might want to look into. now that we have ways of recording other than paper the world will eventually catch up with what is real. and you say that scientist dont want to be proved wrong but just look at what einstein did to newton and he was praised for his works. with more and more skull findings of ancient "man" they have to start rethinking how we evolved. even if a scientist does come up with a wrong theory they are doing the best they can with the information they have, 10 years down the road the theories they had will become nill cause there is new info to observe, its just the cycle of learning. its not written in stone its actuall people trying to expand humankinds knowledge. so what if they are wrong in the long run, they tried.

you dont want to have people question you but that is what people do they question, they learn. is it really so bad that people want sources. they want to have a deeper understanding of what you are talking about so they can actually have a meaningfull conversation backed with knowledge and understanding of where you are coming from.

life is but a dream drifting on a stream.


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In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Phluck]
    #4387228 -

:whatever:

ASSUMPTIONS / MISCOMMUNICATION / MISUNDERSTANDING PURPOSEFUL OR NOT / TIMEWASTING AND EVASION

FUCKIT


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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4387482 -

Sounds like you're describing the typical paranoral experiment...


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Phluck]
    #4387494 -

You should check out the new Carl sagan book "The Demon Haunted World". I think he may be TOO skeptical by rejecting metaphysical hypothesis about things that we cannot know for sure like conscousness and rebirth, but it is an interesting attack on paranormal, postmodern thinking and pseudoscience.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4387511 -

I think I shall, I like Sagan.

Have you ever read Why People Believe Strange Things by Michael Shermer? It's got a few interesting examples of how evidence is manipulated, and experiments can be run in a way that invites certain results.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Phluck]
    #4387648 -

It explains why theories are rejected, and what it takes for them to become accepted (suprise, it requires evidence!).

And far too often it also requires a hell of a long time before a new theory is accepted. If a paradigm shift is required it usually takes a generation to become concensus reality. The old line believers who have invested their reputations and fortunes on the outmoded belief don't change their minds (having lost all flexibility due to egoic attachment to their ideas)- they simply die off and a new generation replaces them. Of course this is not a flaw in the scientific method, it is a flaw in human beings of which scientists are a part.

Just think what humanity could do if people and scientists were open minded! I would like to see us take our foot off the brake and get moving.

Get on with the show already..


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4387654 -

You should check out the new Carl sagan book

Was the book channeled or something? Carl Sagan died almost ten years ago.

Carl Sagan was the man though.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4387682 -

danoEoboy said:
When scientists have accepted a theory as satisfactory, they are deeply unwilling to admit that there might be anything wrong with it.  They ignore small conradictions, but get furious if the contadictory facts grow larger.



And in the next post...

danoEoboy said:
I know you want to question me but please understand that I, do not  want to be questioned.  If you don't want to accept it then don't read it.  Picking technicalities of the English language is not progress, I refuse to spin in circles.



Are you kidding me?  Are you even aware that the statement you made about scientists, you made about yourself in your next post?  :eek:
Difference being that your statements are baseless, at least science can offer results!  Hey results, crazy.  While you are debating that nothing in science can be proved, something using science will fucking kill you.  If you dont believe in momentum and force, shoot yourself, I'm sure youll be fine  :rolleyes:

Edited by TheCow (07/09/05 06:46 PM)

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Jellric]
    #4388108 -

Jellric said:
You should check out the new Carl sagan book

Was the book channeled or something? Carl Sagan died almost ten years ago.

Carl Sagan was the man though.  :thumbup:


No it was not channeled. It was delivered to me by space alien ghosts. And Jospeh Smith and the angel Moroni.
I'm just stupid. My freinds just bought it and I guess he implied that it was a new book. I just browsed and read a couple chapters, must have missed the copyright date.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Edited by Divided_Sky (07/10/05 11:39 AM)

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: TheCow]
    #4392219 -

LOL @ the anxiety created by lack of understanding.


PHLUCK's thinking, that is making a mockery of the paranormal INSTEAD of studying it with SCIENCE is exactly what I was getting at.

BUT U ARSE'S all jumped the gun and I just thought fuck it, why am I talking to a people who have already made their minds up.  People who enjoy existing in the realm of ignorance and playing the games that the realm entangles.

Go on continue to laugh and jibe, I don't care.  Many other people understand that it is this STIGMA, that keeps us from studying the paranormal with SCIENCE.  If only Phlucks intelligent mind could see the irony in his own words. :whatever:


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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Phluck]
    #4392295 -

Phluck said:
Sounds like you're describing the typical paranoral experiment...



:lol: Burn! :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4392624 -

danoEoboy said:
it is this STIGMA, that keeps us from studying the paranormal with SCIENCE.


Thats because there currently is no plausible way to study the paranormal using conventional scientific methods. Could you suggest some?

Belief in the parnormal is like religion. There will never be any reproducible or objective method of "measuring" paranormal activity. Reproducibility is key in the world of science, without it, paranormal investigations are hampered.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: One reason why the paranormal has stayed beyond science [Re: Ego Death]
    #4392628 -

danoEoboy said:
LOL @ the anxiety created by lack of understanding.


PHLUCK's thinking, that is making a mockery of the paranormal INSTEAD of studying it with SCIENCE is exactly what I was getting at.

BUT U ARSE'S all jumped the gun and I just thought fuck it, why am I talking to a people who have already made their minds up.  People who enjoy existing in the realm of ignorance and playing the games that the realm entangles.

Go on continue to laugh and jibe, I don't care.  Many other people understand that it is this STIGMA, that keeps us from studying the paranormal with SCIENCE.  If only Phlucks intelligent mind could see the irony in his own words. :whatever:


I hope I'm not the only one who thought "WTF?" when I read that.


--------------------

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