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InvisibleSimisu
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 5,435
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #2976134 - 08/07/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

indeed a GREAT artical...

what i dont get is this...
i've been trying to figure out what they mean by saying that "under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart. Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing"

aspect was talking about entangled photons (couldn't figure out what that is either) and from what i understand he stated that it is possible to detact where a photon is going from it's paired photon
right? (correct me if i am wrong)
but does THAT mean that no matter which two particals you check (in those certin conditiones he mentioned) you would be able to do the same? thus proving that everything is really just one thing?

i probably did not understand this... but i'll apriciate if some one would be so kind and explain it!
what exectly is this simulteniuse comunication betwine particals?


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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Simisu]
    #2976156 - 08/07/04 05:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

If I remember correctly, particles have entangled "partners" of sorts, that affect each other, somehow. All particles dont affect all other particles, I don't think.


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #2977264 - 08/08/04 12:33 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

[post removed by nubious]


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


Edited by nubious (08/11/04 03:09 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: nubious]
    #2977283 - 08/08/04 12:45 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

It's only a matter of time until science studies the physical and metaphysical together as one subject.


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Offlineferago2
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Registered: 03/02/04
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: nubious]
    #2977302 - 08/08/04 12:57 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt that most (any?) of us have the post graduate work needed to understand the math and physics behind this. If you want my kneejerk, college sophomore response, it sounds possible, but theories in the world of quantum physics are a dime a dozen and I feel like the only reason that this one here is getting attention is because it makes for some cool ideas.

That being said, this doesn't necessarily provide any credence to ESP, or reality as totally subject or anything like that if true. Just because the term "hologram" is used as a useful metaphor doesn't mean that the ideas of "illusions" it invokes are accurate. I don't see any reason at all to see this, whether or not it be true, as justification for belief in "paranormal" things. After all, if it's true, all the laws of physics we know still hold, and those phenomena still have no reasonable explantion...

As far as "The problem (I think), is that because people have 'proved' things like telepathy, esp, blah blah blah as impossible, based on beliefs or teachings and yadda yadda, (You're following me, right?), some of these people, not wanting to admit to themselves that their whole structure of reality is but an illusion, will not let themselves admit to this being true."

The same could be said for people who believe this theory over others, lacking the technical knowledge to evaluate it on its merits, and accept it only because it confirms, or provides a potential explantions for, their quasi religious beliefs.

etc


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Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: ferago2]
    #2978379 - 08/08/04 01:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't see any reason at all to see this, whether or not it be true, as justification for belief in "paranormal" things. After all, if it's true, all the laws of physics we know still hold, and those phenomena still have no reasonable explantion...




Perhaps some of them would have an explanation, though.  Take ghosts, for example..  Maybe when we die a reverberation of our energy stays  behind, a slice of the holographic shape that we took in life- still 'us' in every sense, just as each piece of the holograph of a rose cut in half still remains a whole rose.

  I find it interesting how so many people think of themselves as two different parts: a body, and a soul.  Personally, I think the two are one, and are inseperable.  Do our physical bodies vanish when we die?  Of course not.. energy is indestructable.  I don't see why spiritual energy would be any different.  My two pennies.  :tongue2:


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George Dubya Bush's Resume.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: ferago2]
    #2979816 - 08/08/04 11:26 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ferago2 said:
I doubt that most (any?) of us have the post graduate work needed to understand the math and physics behind this. If you want my kneejerk, college sophomore response, it sounds possible, but theories in the world of quantum physics are a dime a dozen and I feel like the only reason that this one here is getting attention is because it makes for some cool ideas.

That being said, this doesn't necessarily provide any credence to ESP, or reality as totally subject or anything like that if true. Just because the term "hologram" is used as a useful metaphor doesn't mean that the ideas of "illusions" it invokes are accurate. I don't see any reason at all to see this, whether or not it be true, as justification for belief in "paranormal" things. After all, if it's true, all the laws of physics we know still hold, and those phenomena still have no reasonable explantion...

As far as "The problem (I think), is that because people have 'proved' things like telepathy, esp, blah blah blah as impossible, based on beliefs or teachings and yadda yadda, (You're following me, right?), some of these people, not wanting to admit to themselves that their whole structure of reality is but an illusion, will not let themselves admit to this being true."

The same could be said for people who believe this theory over others, lacking the technical knowledge to evaluate it on its merits, and accept it only because it confirms, or provides a potential explantions for, their quasi religious beliefs.

etc



Yep.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Sclorch]
    #2982350 - 08/09/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

no way this post is dieing yet... *bump*

this article is one of the best , flash animation is great.

I came back from my cabin trip and shook my head when i read this. Yet another light in the dark.

They seem to be turning up alot more these days...


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InvisibleJenny
part of thewhole
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Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 5,614
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #2983380 - 08/09/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

nice.
I've actually read about this before, Chopra also mentions this phenomena in some of his books.


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Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
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Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Jenny]
    #2989168 - 08/11/04 12:26 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You guys know this guy Michael Talbot wrote books right?  :smile:  The books obviously go into more detail with illustrations and such.  Another of his books, Beyond the Quantum, is just as good, I'm currently finishing it up.  From what Amazon says, its out of print, but I found it at a used bookstore for 3 bucks, good fine I'd say.

Another theory that I'm currently trying to wrap my mind around, if this holographic theory wasn't enough, is Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields.  I think it fits perfectly with the holographic theory.

Does anyone else think that something big is slowly coming together?  Or possibly not really slow at all?


Just my two cents.


McKennaDMT


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: nubious]
    #2989212 - 08/11/04 12:39 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The problem (I think), is that because people have think they have "proved" things like telepathy, esp, etc, as impossible based on current models of relity and the brain and what not.
This is an incomplete sentence and says nothing about "relity", but a lot about the plusses of proof-reading.

As such, these people don't want to admit to themselves that they may have been wrong. It's a classic example if "My idea is better than yours".
No, this is a classic example of telepathy promoters being unable to demonstrate their non-existent talents and thus attacking the mindset of the evil "detractors".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinevc77
incarnate
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Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 1,302
Loc: PNW US
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: castaway]
    #3141859 - 09/16/04 12:04 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Bump. Amazing.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Swami]
    #3143527 - 09/16/04 12:48 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The problem (I think), is that because people have think they have "proved" things like telepathy, esp, etc, as impossible based on current models of relity and the brain and what not.

"This is an incomplete sentence and says nothing about "relity", but a lot about the plusses of proof-reading."

ok we get it , he said it a bit sloppy. Ill clarify a bit for you

Everthing is relative. FOr each individual, possibility and impossibility are determined relative to the individual. Each person is living in a unique world, the qualities of which are determined by that persons current out look on life, beliefs, paradigm, cosmology etc. When something is 'impossible' in a persons paradigm, that thing will not manifest in his reality, or if it does he will rationalize it away with alternate explanations.

What he is saying is that we each determine our own limits of possible and impossible phenomenon and action, based on our perceptual structure. So for someone working in the old physics cosmology, things are considerd impossible not because they dont occur in the world, but because they are not reconcilable with that particular system of understanding.

Change your paradigm, change your perception, change the limits of your possibility.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #7945296 - 01/28/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Stumbled upon this and its one of the best articles ive ever read!

giving scientific explanation to what ive already read from buddhist/Tao philosophy, i also experienced this collective connection personally on a HUGE trip.

The fact sceince can confirm it is just brilliant.

Einstein also stated for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction so although he said nothing can travel faster than light he had already stated the truth, and its not exactly traveling isit, its reaction and action on a universal scale, our actions arent traveling anywhere they just cause the reaction.


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Invisibledeimya
tofu and monocle
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Chronic7]
    #7945415 - 01/28/08 01:45 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Sorry to break your little quackery party going on here but the very first premise of this whole discussion, brought on stage through a false interpration of Aspect experiements, is that entangled pairs communicate.

This is known to be entirely false and has been formalised in the context of the very interesting and relatively simple No-communication theorem in quantum mechanics, more precisely in the field of quantum information; simply put, the theorem says that whatever non-destructive operation you do on one subsystem of an entangled pair, there is NO way and will never be one, if quantum mechanics is correct, for these operation to be distinguishable by measurements on the other subsystem of the pair without at first establishing an ordinary, classical channel, that is without doing stuff slower than light. Simply, there is no "faster than light" communication, Einstein's theory is not violated, and if you want to communicate with entangled pairs, you first need a non-faster than light communication channel. This misinterpretation of Aspect's beautiful and deeply unintuitive experiment is always used by crackpots everywhere to push their flights of fancy onto unsuspecting believers. Feel free to ask questions.

If there is anything like a collective unconscious, it is way less trivial than what these guy argue (badly) for.


Edited by deimya (01/28/08 01:48 PM)


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Invisibledeimya
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Chronic7]
    #7945430 - 01/28/08 01:49 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
Einstein also stated for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction so although he said nothing can travel faster than light he had already stated the truth, and its not exactly traveling isit, its reaction and action on a universal scale, our actions arent traveling anywhere they just cause the reaction.




It's Newton who said that, in fact it is Newton's third law of mechanics.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: deimya]
    #7945440 - 01/28/08 01:51 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

I dont understand what you just said, what i took fomr the article was that on a subatomic level its been prooved everything is interconnected?

NOONE understands quantum mechanics (which are all just theorys anyway)so i dont really try to be honest.

I just know that everything is connected and i thought this was scientific confirmation.

Noone could ever make me disbeleive everythings connected. Noone ever no matter what the proof was, from what ive 100% experienced its my own personal truth that noone can take away.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Chronic7]
    #7945552 - 01/28/08 02:16 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Noone could ever make me disbeleive everythings connected. Noone ever no matter what the proof was,

You would make a splendid fundamentalist christian.:thumbup::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledeimya
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Registered: 08/26/04
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Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Chronic7]
    #7945565 - 01/28/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

You believe what you want and I'm not there to tell you what to believe of not. What I am here to tell with this post is simply that there is no scientific confirmation of precisely what this autor claims. No communication faster than light, no violation of Einstein's relativity. He's very clever in pushing his views, but hey, he wouldn't sell as much otherwise.

Also, entanglement, realism, locality and similar words unfortunately have a very precise usage in the scientific litterature and it is easy to be mislead by unknowingly applying to them the broader, more common definition we are used to. This is indeed a problem.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: The Holographic Universe- Science and Spirituality [Re: Icelander]
    #7945582 - 01/28/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Noone could ever make me disbeleive everythings connected. Noone ever no matter what the proof was,

You would make a splendid fundamentalist christian.:thumbup::monkeydance:




I really really wouldnt :smile:

I beleive what i beleive through personal experience, not blind faith.

I also beleive nothing can travel faster than light, but i also beleive for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

And these actions do not TRAVEL they just are. Theyre not information travelling at a speed, they are actions/reactions. Just energy.

I agree with einstein 100%.


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/28/08 02:25 PM)


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