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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1772022 - 08/02/03 03:06 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

But remember, UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object", which does not mean "alien".

Quit with the sense-making already!


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1772729 - 08/02/03 12:24 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

>>>abductions started with Barney and Betty Hill in 1961<<<

No, reports did come earlier, although, evidence is hard to find. I believe their is very good reason for this though, explained in a chinese proverb in my 2nd post.

For instance: Proffesor George Adamski 1953, Doctor Daniel Fry 1954 claimed not only to have seen UFO's but to of encountered their occupants.

>>>Anyone can see a plasma ball<<<

Agreed although doesn't this come from lightning, wheres the lightning on a clear night? Can plasma do a 90 degree direction change? (Note this is based on personal sightings) Also, most aviators and military who have often been part of these witness would surely be able to distinguish between the 2.

>>>experience is that they will classify anything as top secret<<<

MayBe true, it would indeed be wise. Usually information is declassified within a matter of years. With UFO's it was decades and only thanks to a selected few politicians,scientists that helped campain for release of the data.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1772868 - 08/02/03 01:16 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

The fish takes for granted that the medium it knows is the true element - indeed, the only element. Why should it imagine otherwise? One day, a particular fish swims into a remote part of the lake and sees a strange object above. The fish has no name for what it sees from below, but we who are above would call the object a 'bobber'. Amazed, the fish returns to its school & tells of what it has seen. The story is impressive , but the other fish are not so interested. After all there is always fresh kelp to find, not to mention larger, hungy fish to avoid. News of such strange objects can only be a dangerous distraction to the overall affairs of the school. Over time, however, others see the bobber, and a robust set of legends grows. Then, on a particular day, a fish happens to swim too close to the object and gets 'hooked'. Suddenly this fish finds itself pulled up and out, into a vast and altogether amazing realm of above and beyond. Those who have snagged the fish and reeled it in, after analysing the creature according to particular criteria, decide the fish is not a 'keeper' and toss it back. Bewildered, the fish makes it back with an even more incredible tale to tell about another world - a very different world - populated by the most marvelous of beings. Depending on how this news is revealed and recieved, the fish is deified, eaten, or simply isolated from the rest of the school, where it is left to muse aloud, 'water'! We live and swim in water! I have just now seen that which is not in water! I have just now that which is not water: I have glimpsed "dry land," and "open sky." Does anyone hear me? does anyone care?

Close encounters of the forth kind. C.B.D Brian


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1773532 - 08/02/03 05:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

The fish that is not prepared to consider the idea that perhaps the dry land was a figment of its imagination is a fool as well, until it can be proven that there is dry land.

You are claiming that we are not opening our eyes to what is real. The problem is, you've convinced yourself that one possibility is real, without any evidence, and you are closing your mind to all the other possibilities.

I admit that there is a possibility that aliens are visiting us, but the fact is, there is no decent evidence to support that claim. All we have are anecdotal stories, which are proof of nothing.

It seems quite likely that people believe in aliens the way many believe in religion. They believe because they want to believe, and because they believe in what they are told. Their experiences may be dreams and delusions, influenced by reports of the "alien abductions".

We know for sure that people sometimes believe odd and illogical things, and we know that people can experience delusions. We don't know for certain if there is life from elsewhere in the univserve that is visiting our planet.

Since it cannot be proven either way, it is quite foolish to claim that you know the answers.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1773704 - 08/02/03 06:54 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

>>>without any evidence<<<

Are you completly ignorant, I present my eveidence over and over, here have it again...

1. The phenomena has no boundaries i.e Global, Historical (Unlike many other comparisons such as elves/fairies)
2. There are very credible people making witness statements. This includes all walks of life Scientists and politicians to tramps and aborigenes.
3. The UK & US governments have openly admitted to classifing documents relating to UFO's. What are they hiding?
4. If UFO's were piloted by the Human race, how did we obtain the tech b4 we even had cars? Why would a government craft attack a military installation? There are several reports from multiple trained military personal about UFO's appearing over bases.
5. Why would we bother hiding the tech for this long? If the craft were human like stealth, the info, would of been released by now.
6. Humans do not have a desire to beleive in something that harms them. The god theory as with Heavens Gate showed smiling aliens that were alledgedly coming to save them if they commited suicide. A god is a protecting power to giv u faith. Most people are shit scared of the prospect of aliens and abduction, I know I am.


Wheres your evidence phluck, you've written a load of spluck!

>>>it is quite foolish to claim that you know the answers<<<

I'm telling what I saw and the conclusions I've made from research and study. Who do you think you are to call me foolish. This is my logic and fuck you if your to dumb to understand.




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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1774748 - 08/03/03 01:43 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

For instance: Proffesor George Adamski 1953, Doctor Daniel Fry 1954 claimed not only to have seen UFO's but to of encountered their occupants.



Well, Adamski was a mythomaniac who falsely claimed to be a professor. I don't know who Daniel Fry is, but the point is that reports of abduction by flying saucer crews have been an epidemic during the last half-century only. Reports of seeing strange lights and shiny things in the air is a much older phenomenon. They are not the same phenomenon.

Quote:

Agreed although doesn't this come from lightning, wheres the lightning on a clear night? Can plasma do a 90 degree direction change? (Note this is based on personal sightings) Also, most aviators and military who have often been part of these witness would surely be able to distinguish between the 2.



Distinguish between what? Don't you mean they would surely be able to identify a plasma ball as a plasma ball instead of reporting it as unidentified? I don't think so. How many aviators are familiar with plasma balls?

A plasma ball has the density of a gas, so it can perform very sudden movements and accelerations with very little inertia.

It's estimated that there are on average 100 lightning discharges per second in the Earth's atmosphere, every day. It is also possible that plasma balls can be created by tornados and by electromagnetic activities in the Earth's crust. So there are potentially lots of sources. And we don't really know how long a large plasma ball can survive, so it might be possible for it to travel far away from where it was created.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1774762 - 08/03/03 01:51 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

3. The UK & US governments have openly admitted to classifing documents relating to UFO's. What are they hiding?

So, we shouldn't believe what the US government/Dept. of Defense/[insert official here] tells us about the War on Drugs, the War on Iraq, the French, etc., but WE SHOULD believe what they say about aliens, UFOs, and the like?

I suppose this belief-calculus is too confusing for morons like myself, right?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Sclorch]
    #1775021 - 08/03/03 07:06 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

>>>but WE SHOULD believe what they say about aliens, UFOs, and the like?<<<

Why believe? Why black and white? Why not consider the likelyness of possibilities? Question everything. Determine possible but changeable conclusions from probability and likelyness.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1775025 - 08/03/03 07:13 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Rhizoid I accept your statement on plasma balls and have altered my theories accordingly. I agree that lights in the sky could be down to plasma balls (not all but many of the extremes that appear to be UFO's). I cannot accept fully because I saw 1 star that was there for 4 hours completely stationery and then started to vibrate and took off slowly gaining acceleration until was gone. This surely couldn't of been plasma? You're right in that they are two seperate phenomena that have been linked.

>>>reports of abduction by flying saucer crews have been an epidemic during the last half-century only<<<

This is possibly because the world has only just become ready to start accepting these stories, as in the chinese proverb the fish would be eaten.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1775068 - 08/03/03 08:12 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"1. The phenomena has no boundaries i.e Global, Historical (Unlike many other comparisons such as elves/fairies)"

Sure, people have always been seeing things in the sky that they couldn't identify. This is still NOT EVIDENCE that what they saw were aliens. This is only evidence that people saw things in the sky.

"2. There are very credible people making witness statements. This includes all walks of life Scientists and politicians to tramps and aborigenes."

Any decent scientist knows that anecdotal evidence, whether it be from one person, or one thousand, is not proof of anything. No matter how credible someone is, they are still prone to believe in ludicrous things.

"3. The UK & US governments have openly admitted to classifing documents relating to UFO's. What are they hiding?"

Who knows? This is DEFINATELY not evidence that the UFO's are aliens though. Maybe they're hiding the fact that the things are their own spaceships.

"4. If UFO's were piloted by the Human race, how did we obtain the tech b4 we even had cars? Why would a government craft attack a military installation? There are several reports from multiple trained military personal about UFO's appearing over bases."

UFO's are "Unidentified flying objects", not only do we not know what they are, we aren't even sure if they're space ships. How do you know for certain that a lot of the older reports are not misidentified birds or space phenomena?

"5. Why would we bother hiding the tech for this long?"

Well, that's assuming that they are human craft as well, and not just a mass delusion. If they were human craft, there's plenty of reason to keep it secret.

"If the craft were human like stealth, the info, would of been released by now."

What makes you say that? Why would it have been released by now? Are you privy to the US government's policy on handling top secret data?

"6. Humans do not have a desire to beleive in something that harms them. The god theory as with Heavens Gate showed smiling aliens that were alledgedly coming to save them if they commited suicide. A god is a protecting power to giv u faith. Most people are shit scared of the prospect of aliens and abduction, I know I am."

People also like to believe things that will make them sound correct. They will alter their own worldview so that it fits better with their theories, and I'm going to have to give you a big thanks, because you provided me with a perfect example right here. Many, many religions are based on the fear of god, and his wrath. Are you aware of the old testament?

If you are blatantly ignoring key data when making a small statement like that, how can I trust your ability to analyse other information? How are you able to trust your own judgement?

None of what you listed off was anywhere near solid evidence that aliens exist. Some of it was good evidence that people think aliens exist, and some of it was decent arguments against some of the opposing viewpoints. But an argument is not the same thing as evidence.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1775074 - 08/03/03 08:23 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"I'm telling what I saw and the conclusions I've made from research and study. Who do you think you are to call me foolish. This is my logic and fuck you if your to dumb to understand."

Whoa! I've hit one hell of a nerve!

First of all, I have no faith in your research. Your posts have demonstrated quite clearly that you have little to no understanding of the scientific process and what constitutes good evidence.

Allow me to whip up some equally good evidence PROOVING BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that there is a god.

1. Millions upon millions belive in him and have reported sightings. This has transcended generations and borders.

2. Many of these people are politicians, scientists, and other very credible people.

3. The vatican has openly admitting to classifying information, what could they possibly be hiding? (Hint: It's proof!)

4. If there is no god, then where did everything come from? Answer me that one!

5. If god didn't exist, how come when I prayed to him to win my 4th grade basketball tournament, I won?

6. If God didn't exist people wouldn't believe in him.

If you can understand the logical flaws in these arguments, surely you'll be able to understand your own errors.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1775358 - 08/03/03 12:04 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Your post was so convincing that I am now a believer in God. Thank you for showing me the light.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1775393 - 08/03/03 12:25 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)


Before you decide that one possibility is more likely than another, you need some sort of evidence.


I'm still trying to figure out why those aliens visit me all the time.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Shroomism]
    #1775591 - 08/03/03 01:48 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Nothing like leaving yourself wide open, but I will show amazing restraint.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Swami]
    #1776146 - 08/03/03 05:27 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

>>>surely you'll be able to understand your own errors.<<<

It is your personal view that I have made errors obviously, I don't think I have.

I do understand your argument though, there is no evidence which is why I said it was based on likelyness. I am not a scientist nor do I ever plan to beleive that science is the sole logic, if I did, then I would be disregarding many personal paranormal/spiritual phenomena because science can explain it, well, sorry but the explainations don't work for me.

How can I change something that I have seen and experienced. I can't therefore I must experience,question and conclude. The problem is convincing anybody else what you have seen is impossible.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1776163 - 08/03/03 05:35 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

When I was a boy I saw a UFO at close range. I was no more than 40 meters from the craft. It was roughly the size of 2 cars. It was a silver disc shaped craft with a raised center and red and yellow lights alternating all around the lower rim. As it appeared, out of nowhere, a humming sound was also heard. The craft hovered, tilted and landed allowing me in the process to see the roof of the craft which was covered in "tubing" or random pipework. The craft left a circle in the grass where it landed and grass would not grow there for years after.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1777294 - 08/04/03 01:29 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

That's certainly something.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1777606 - 08/04/03 07:34 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I agree that lights in the sky could be down to plasma balls (not all but many of the extremes that appear to be UFO's). I cannot accept fully because I saw 1 star that was there for 4 hours completely stationery and then started to vibrate and took off slowly gaining acceleration until was gone. This surely couldn't of been plasma?




No, that doesn't sound right for a plasma ball. And I can think of no reason for a spacecraft or atmospheric flying machine, alien-made or manmade, to move around the Earth for 4 hours in a way that made it look like a distant star from one particular point of view. From another point of view the motion through near-Earth space should have been clearly visible. Were there no other reports from nearby places about people seeing strange lights that night?

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1777610 - 08/04/03 07:39 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

When I was a boy I saw a UFO at close range

So by seeing the exterior of a vehicle you could discern the inhabitants and the point of origin? Please explain.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Swami]
    #1778404 - 08/04/03 01:59 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

So by seeing the exterior of a vehicle you could discern the inhabitants and the point of origin? Please explain.

The bumper sticker gave it away... "I  :heart: Plaedia"


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