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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Swami]
    #1763448 - 07/30/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

>>>don't seem to survive critical scrutiny for very long<<<

Rhizoid what do you base this assertion on?

I believe anyone reading this thread who knows UFO's exsist carefully will be able to see UFO's probably are alien spacecraft. There are many reasons for this, though, mainly based on the human reaction to UFO's. Also, it is the most simplest and obvious answer if you look at our world and evolution then assume this applies to the universe then it becomes obviouse a higher chain is their.

I have read your link that tars elves, ghosts, UFO's, witches ETC into the same catagory and I think this is very unscientific and dangerous. I understand the nature of the text i.e Refering to how easily we can be deluded, and understand this but I think what you have done is short sighted to say all mystisicm is the same. A major factor you have ignored is the amount of reports over the history of all time. Check how many ghosts and UFO's have been seen by the human race, ever, compared to say elves and you've found a major anomally!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1763589 - 07/30/03 05:15 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

UFOLOGY Logic

Part 1

1. I saw a light in the sky that I could not identify. However, I could identify it as an alien probe.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1765064 - 07/31/03 04:26 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:

...because no 'credible scientist' will give UFOs any serious research.



Quote:

danoEoboy said:
>>>don't seem to survive critical scrutiny for very long<<<

Rhizoid what do you base this assertion on?




There are scientists who do research that may explain the UFO phenomenon, both the psychological side (hallucinations of being abducted by aliens) and the physical side (the causes behind unidentified flying lights or metallic-looking objects).

Plasma objects glow in darkness, and look like metals when illuminated by bright light. They can accelerate and change their motion very quickly, and they can produce very strong electromagnetic fields. I think identifying flying gray disks with plasma objects is a much better application of Occam's Razor than identifying them with spaceships that use impossible propulsion systems and have travelled to our planet from star systems 400 light-years away.

As for the abduction reports, scientists have learned much more about false memories uncovered by hypnosis than what was known 40 years ago, when Betty and Barney Hill reported their abduction story.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Swami]
    #1765633 - 07/31/03 10:06 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"UFOLOGY Logic

Part 1

1. I saw a light in the sky that I could not identify. However, I could identify it as an alien probe."

Exactly. You claim that you've done lots of critical thinking and weighed out the evidence, but you haven't actually given us adequate evidence that these things you saw are aliens.

I believe you this far: You saw some things that you could not identify.

But in order to say that these things are aliens, you'd need to see them up close. You'd have to see what's inside of them. Take photographs to prove that you're not just making things up, or dreaming, or hallucinating. Have others investigate the whole thing to make sure it's not a huge prank being pulled on you.

You see? There are so many other possibilities that when you say that they are for sure aliens, you're jumping to conclusions. There is no way to know for sure.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1765643 - 07/31/03 10:09 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Another thing: We know for sure that people pull pranks, and misidentify things. We know that people hallucinate and have wild delusions.

We don't know for sure if there are aliens visiting the earth.

Therefore, it's less likely that it's aliens.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1765648 - 07/31/03 10:12 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"Check how many ghosts and UFO's have been seen by the human race, ever, compared to say elves and you've found a major anomally!"

Actually, if you look back a few hundred years to when beliefs in angels, fairies, and elves were commonplace, people saw them all the time.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Phluck]
    #1765751 - 07/31/03 11:05 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Logical points...


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1767010 - 07/31/03 05:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

>>>you'd need to see them up close<<<

You've obviously read nothing i've said.

>>>Actually, if you look back a few hundred years to when beliefs in angels, fairies, and elves were commonplace, people saw them all the time<<<

This statement is exluding the fact, that, UFO's and ghost have been a global phenomena for all time, not just 1 small slot of time.





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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1767023 - 07/31/03 05:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

The debate rages on.

>>>scientists have learned much more about false memories uncovered by hypnosis than what was known 40 years ago<<<

True. But I have not heard that it is possible to plant a complete story such as B&B.Hill through hypnosis. If that were true is it not extremly dangerous that its common practice today, imagine some of the other uses of this memory implantation, don't you think you'd be hearing about it regularly?

Also, what about the many memories that spurred these people to go and have hypnosis anyway!!!


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OfflineLikwidDrawp
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1767029 - 07/31/03 05:53 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

We know that there are frequnecies, colors, sounds well beyond what humans can hear or even use instruments to interpret. Physical evidence? When something can go from one dimension to the next in a heartbeat how do you expect to get evidence. The problem is that people who really havent had experiences will often be skeptic.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1767304 - 07/31/03 07:55 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

a


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:15 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: LikwidDrawp]
    #1767515 - 07/31/03 09:35 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

We know that there are frequnecies, colors, sounds well beyond what humans can hear or even use instruments to interpret.
We know that BECAUSE we have instruments to measure these frequencies.

When something can go from one dimension to the next in a heartbeat how do you expect to get evidence.
(Is this a question?) And you, of course, know that those tiny specks of light are inter-dimensional shifting how?

The problem is that people who really havent had experiences will often be skeptic.
How is this, in any way, a problem? The problem is there is no hard evidence.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #1767531 - 07/31/03 09:39 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Can any of you deny that there is other forms of "life" or "existance" that we have not discovered or even began to fathom yet?

I can confirm that we have not discovered any other life forms as of yet. While we may certainly speculate about life on other planets, it is impossible to extrapolate off of a sample size of one.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #1767744 - 07/31/03 10:55 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"Can any of you deny that there is other forms of "life" or "existance" that we have not discovered or even began to fathom yet? The universe is endless. "

I can't deny that of course, but you can't deny for sure, that there isn't a secret base in the middle of venus inhabited by Mormon pandas.

Before you decide that one possibility is more likely than another, you need some sort of evidence.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1768116 - 08/01/03 01:21 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

But I have not heard that it is possible to plant a complete story such as B&B.Hill through hypnosis. If that were true is it not extremly dangerous that its common practice today, imagine some of the other uses of this memory implantation, don't you think you'd be hearing about it regularly?




Yes, it is dangerous, and we are hearing more and more about it. For example, check out this story about a woman who sued her therapist for implanting incest memories that turned out to be provably false.

Quote:

Also, what about the many memories that spurred these people to go and have hypnosis anyway!!!




It was Barney Hill's nightmares after the UFO encounter that was the reason for this. I don't think it's hard for a hypnotist to turn dreams into false memories, without even actually trying.

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OfflineLikwidDrawp
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1768123 - 08/01/03 01:27 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

the evidence is in people's faces that see the UFO's but many people never see them, nor do they meditate, and they make simple conclusions. ever been to south point hawaii? ever talk to anyone that has been there?


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: LikwidDrawp]
    #1768385 - 08/01/03 03:41 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

>>>Before you decide that one possibility is more likely than another, you need some sort of evidence<<<

This is exactly what I have tried to do!!!

We know theirs no first hand evidence (unless you where lucky). This leaves us to base conclusions on likelyness. My conclusions have had string after string of evidence attached where as I've seen hardly any for the other side of the argument.

My major points:
1. The phenomena has no boundaries i.e Global, Historical (Unlike many other comparisons such as elves/fairies)
2. There are very credible people making witness statements. This includes all walks of life Scientists and politicians to tramps and aborigenes.
3. The UK & US governments have openly admitted to classifing documents relating to UFO's. What are they hiding?
4. If UFO's were piloted by the Human race, how did we obtain the tech b4 we even had cars? Why would a government craft attack a military installation? There are several reports from multiple trained military personal about UFO's appearing over bases.
5. Why would we bother hiding the tech for this long? If the craft were human like stealth, the info, would of been released by now.
6. Humans do not have a desire to beleive in something that harms them. The god theory as with Heavens Gate showed smiling aliens that were alledgedly coming to save them if they commited suicide. A god is a protecting power to giv u faith. Most people are shit scared of the prospect of aliens and abduction, I know I am.

B4 you start to hack at me, please check my other posts above to make sure we haven't already covered what you are about to say.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1768584 - 08/01/03 07:20 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I find it intruiging why Swami is so passionately denying the existance of UFO's or "aliens", clearly he has a soft-spot on this subject, as I do when it comes to "God".

Quote:

I can confirm that we have not discovered any other life forms as of yet. While we may certainly speculate about life on other planets, it is impossible to extrapolate off of a sample size of one.




You seem to be standing by, what can only be described as medieval science, you comment although compelling sounds backwards to me. Speculation and imagination are key to scientific/technological development, how can we explore new possibilities if we constantly focus on what is proven and "right". Theories are constantly proven/disproven, its how we take steps forward. Undoubtley there are things that are beyond our perception whether it be physical or mental and there are things that we cannot (and never will be able to explain). This whole thread seems to be centered on "the grey aliens" that come and take people to their spaceships that inspire awe and terror and probe people with objects while they're paralysed. But there are things on our planet that cannot be explained rationally, we barely understand ourselves let alone the vast volume that is space. We are one species with one percption of life and conciousness and as you put it

Quote:

it is impossible to extrapolate off of a sample size of one




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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: Ego Death]
    #1768862 - 08/01/03 09:59 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

1. The phenomena has no boundaries i.e Global, Historical (Unlike many other comparisons such as elves/fairies)



I thought all dreams and repressed "memories" of abductions started with Barney and Betty Hill in 1961? This was after a decade of science fiction movies about aliens, and in a climate full of cold war anxiety, and lots of media interest in the UFO phenomenon. The fear of aliens was present already in 1938 when the broadcast of Orson Welles' radio dramatization of "War of the Worlds" caused panic among people who thought we were being invaded by aliens.

The other part of the UFO phenomenon, sightings of round flying objects, is different. Since plasma balls can be created by thunderstorms, such objects have probably been around since this planet was formed, so it would not be surprising if they have been spotted all around the globe and throughout history.

Quote:

2. There are very credible people making witness statements. This includes all walks of life Scientists and politicians to tramps and aborigenes.



Anyone can see a plasma ball. See above.

Quote:

3. The UK & US governments have openly admitted to classifing documents relating to UFO's. What are they hiding?



Wasn't all of that military stuff? I did some work for the military many years ago, and my experience is that they will classify anything as top secret, regardless how trivial it is. They would classify the number "pi" if they could. Think about your worst pot-induced paranoia and then multiply with a 100. Then you get the baseline paranoia level for the military...

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A big reason why aliens DO exist! [Re: LikwidDrawp]
    #1770866 - 08/01/03 07:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"he evidence is in people's faces that see the UFO's "

That's evidence that those people think they saw UFOs.

Maybe even evidence that they actually did see UFOs. But remember, UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object", which does not mean "alien".



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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