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There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2
    #1084720 -

Ok, if you didn't follow the original thread it's out there (unlike the aliens), so check it out. It argues that aliens haven't visited earth because the odds of an intelligent, extroverted, space-faring creature existing in the same tiny window of time as we are and close enough to visit are too slim. The discussion ended up largely being an argument of whether or not the universe is infinite. Now for round 2, let's see where this ends up.

I think that the odds of a life-sustaining planet producing intelligent, potential space-travelling life are slim enough that we can be sure there are no civilizations within a distance any life form would care to cross. First, intelligence isn't inevitable in evolution. A planet's biosphere could grow and change and die and regrow for infinity without producing a creature with a brain larger than a walnut or any brain at all. And even if this planet did produce an intelligent being capable of solving puzzles ten times faster than humans, evolution likely wouldn't have complimented its intellect with tool-using hands or the urge to fly into space. We and our concept of vehicular space travel rose out of unique and no longer existing conditions somewhere in east Africa, and we aren't likely to find anything similar on other planets.

Thoughts?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1084756 -

I followed the other thread.

As far as intelligent life existing in the universe we have little to no evidence that we are not alone.

I think we are alone.  We need to deal with it.

This is not to say that I think aliens are not real though.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Best of luck on the new thread. :smile:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: ]
    #1084762 -

I think we are alone

Didn't you once say that you were "contacted"?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Revelation]
    #1084767 -

Yes I did. You have a good memory. I was contacted by aliens. This is why I mentioned them in the previous post.

I do not think they live on another planet. In fact, I do not think they live in our dimension only.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1084907 -

I was contacted by aliens

Hey, do you want to relate this story and your theories, or have you already in another thread and if so can you link me to it?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1085027 -

Many trip reports of people who smoke DMT say they have encountered aliens or 'other beings'.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1085126 -

Somewhat related to the anthropic principle is the idea that, if we know nothing of other planets and star systems, we can at least say that our own is more likely to be close to 'average' than it is to be a freakish anomaly.

And however unlikely intelligent life is, I think the *most* unlikely scenario is that we are totally unique. That out of however many trillion planets in the universe, there is exactly one where it developed. A handful, a few hundred, that's still rare, but it's not an -infinite- rarity.

Our star is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.

even if this planet did produce an intelligent being capable of solving puzzles ten times faster than humans, evolution likely wouldn't have complimented its intellect with tool-using hands or the urge to fly into space.
That I disagree with. We were able to evolve a puzzle-solving brain -because- we had tool-using hands. It's the relationship between form and function. There is no reason for a sea anenome to understand general relativity. And the urge to fly into space is part of our biological desire to expand and conquer; any species that outcompeted its way to the top of the food chain would probably have the same drives.

I also believe that any other intelligent life is too far away/ already dead / not evolved yet / not paying attention/ or whatever, that we are never going to communicate with or be visited by them. But you can't take that and say "so there's no such thing."


Edited by Xibalba (11/25/02 05:42 PM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085137 -

Our star is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.

I can se your point, it is somewhat valid. It really is the only thing we can base other systems on. As for having 4 planets capabable of life in our system; I just don't know about that. Besides Mars and Earth, what would be the other 2?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1085196 -

Europa could have housed life @ some point. It might even now, it has (semi) reasonable temperatures and h2o.

But we're still thinking of life by earth standards. Look at the insane variety of life on this planet, I don't think I could imagine what organisms would have been like on Mars or Europa. What would life be like in a binary system? What would life be like if it were silicon based? Why does life _necessarily_ need water? If life is just a self-replicating organism (some will argue this,) why do we require anything except a steady creation of new molecules? There is so much that could exist outside the parameters of what we call life.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085207 -

We were able to evolve a puzzle-solving brain -because- we had tool-using hands. It's the relationship between form and function. There is no reason for a sea anenome to understand general relativity. And the urge to fly into space is part of our biological desire to expand and conquer; any species that outcompeted its way to the top of the food chain would probably have the same drives.

You may be right about the problem solving and hand thing, but I'm not sure. What kinds of puzzles can dolphins solve? There's talk of their being able to assess situations and come up with clever plans to solve situations involving predators or prey. I think the urge to fly into space has something to do with our specie's nomadic lifestyle. If we were migratory, would we want to fly into space? It's possible we wouldn't have the same attitude if we weren't nomads by nature.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1085260 -

Mars, Earth, Europa and what?  :confused:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1085384 -

I meant Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. They're 'earthlike' in that they are small, close to the sun, and made of rock, as opposed to far away, huge, and gaseous.
Mercury and Venus are way too hot for life, Mars is too cold, though both Venus and Mars may have been better off in the past. If most systems with planets have more than one small, rocky planet close to the sun, at a similar range of distances, the chances of one being in the right place (for liquid water) is increased.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085477 -

If there are bacteria living in the ice-covered lakes of antarctica then there could probably be some kind of life on mars.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086110 -

But most likely not intelligent life.  :tongue: 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086799 -

To say we are the only life in the universe is just ignorant in my opinion. Intelligent life, now that all depends on what you consider intelligent as some of you have brought up.....but I'd still have to say that even by our standards of intelligence there is most likely something out there. Now whether or not we have or ever will come into contact with this life, intelligent or not is a completely different argument. I bet somewhere in the universe there is are a bunch of mushrooms sitting around looking up at the stars and debating the existence of life out there. Whether or not the universe has an end or not, its still bigger then our minds can even comprehend, which means the possibilities are infinite.


--------------------
Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086840 -

Hmm this may come as a shock to some of you but I have been "contacted" as well.
For years now. I can't deny the existance as I know it first hand.
[insert sarcastic remark here]


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Edited by Shroomism (11/26/02 05:12 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086848 -

I will just say, that we are not as unique as we think we are, and human is one of the more common races in the universe.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1087502 -

I think there was life, or something like it, on mars at one point. This site I found to be very thought provoking. Check it out.


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You can not recieve with hands already full.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1087603 -

Care to elaborate, Shroomism?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1087630 -

Well, there are the Klingons, the Vulcans, The Romulans, The Borg, the...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1087725 -

Any alien abductees care to elaborate?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1087834 -

They rarely do, from what I've seen, Dogomush. They talk about how special everybody is and usualyl have some great life-lessons to teach people, but when it comes to actually explaining these "aliens" and what they're all about and where they come from and other details, the answers start either getting pretty spacey (talk of galactic federations and the sort) or quite elusive, like "oh you'll see.... 'soon' you'll all see."

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Care to elaborate?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1088081 -

What do you want to know?
Ask specific questions.


--------------------

Edited by Shroomism (11/26/02 03:44 PM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1088293 -

Where do these aliens come from? What do they want us to do? How do you know this information? Why doesn't anybody particularly influential ever get "contacted" and put to work?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
I'll have plenty more


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1088307 -

Don't underestimate shroomism's influentiality!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1088313 -

> Well, there are the Klingons, the Vulcans, The Romulans, The Borg, the...

DUH! The Borg arent a alien race - STUPID - their a group of ciborgs that assimallate other aliens. God, ur such an IDIOT.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1088326 -

Shroomism, I would like to ask a question.  Is sex with alien chicks as wild as they say?  Oh, can you get me in touch with that Vulcan on 'Enterprise,' Sub-Commander T'Pol?  Her body is out of this world.  While you're at it see if you can get Seven of Nine's phone number, I'd like to give her a full nine (if you know what I mean). :wink:


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1088424 -

It is common among those who have been contacted to be extremely guarded about their experience.  Sometimes years go by before they will even tell their spouse.  That being the case there are rvery few that have heard my story.  Not that it is that fantastic but it is highly personal.

But thanks for asking. :smile:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Evolving]
    #1088425 -

Are you taking that new EXTENZ or LONGITUDE to get to a nine?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1088436 -

I'll just give her three, three times (I know it seems small, but some women like it that wide).


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1088442 -

It is common among those who have been contacted to be extremely guarded about their experience. Sometimes years go by before they will even tell their spouse.

Especially when sex is involved. (I can't help myself - it is my nature.)

Would actually like to hear your story one day.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1088474 -

It is common among those who have been contacted to be extremely guarded about their experience.

I wonder if this has to do with the judgement and sarcasm that comes from those who havn't experienced something like it. It's in our nature to try and conform others to the "norm".

Well, sarcastic mocking is a step forward from things like witch trials and the Inquisition, I suppose. :wink: 


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Adamist]
    #1088493 -

Adamist, as a rebel and a person who has always marched to the beat of his own drum I really don't give a fig about who thinks what of me.

For me it is the personal nature of the event. I think I said this before but I wouldn't tell a buddy what my first night with my wife was like on our honeymoon either. Some things are very private.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1088498 -

And I would actually like you to hear it.

Coffee would be nice. I like extra cream, no sugar.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1088503 -

Mr. Mushrooms I'd love to hear your takes on my above inquiries as well - different perspectives are always a plus


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1088525 -

Thank you for your kind inquiry Strumpling.

However I really cannot say much about it.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1088538 -

Why not?

Edit #1(addition):is it "too much" for me? (end edit)
Edit #2(addition): and what CAN you say about it?(end edit#2)


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/26/02 06:45 PM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1088624 -

I wouldn't tell a buddy what my first night with my wife was like on our honeymoon either.

I understand. So tell us about the second night...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089622 -

Where do these aliens come from?

There are races as wide and varied as the animals on our own planet. Some of them develop on planets very similar to Earth, others on planes drastically different. Water based life forms are common, but there are also silicon and plasma based life forms. Some of the races I am most familiar with:

Pleaidians - From the Pleiades. Their planet is called Erra, which is water based, and very close in size and atmosphere to Earth. It revolves around the star Taygeta. The intelligent species is human. They are a very advanced species, spiritually and technologically.

Andromedans - From the Andromeda constellation. There are two basic forms of humanoids, the "nordic" or caucasian type that ranges from blond hair blue eyes to the mediterranean type, tan skin, brown - grey eyes, dark hair. And the typical oriental. Andromedans are noted in the Galactic Federation for their mastery of all forms of scientific endeavor.

Arcturians - From the star Arcturus in the constellation of Bootes. They are a highly sentient mammaloid species closely resembling a horse. In the Galactic Federation, Arcturians are noted for their mastery of time (galactic calendars, etcetera) and their exceptional abilities in science and philosophy.

Bellatricians - From one of the brightest stars in Orion, right above and to the right of the belt. The major species is a dino-reptoid hybird. Bi-pedal beings, very scaly and bony. Large red or yellow eyes similar to our own reptiles. Noted for great diplomatic and leadership skills. In charge, for past six million years, of all the former Alliance?s forces for this sector of the Milky Way Galaxy.

Pegasians - From the constellation of Pegasus. Three different types of humanoids. The beings from Pegasus are known for their prowess as innovators, scientists, and diplomats.

"Greys" - From Zeta Reticuli B. Humanoid beings though quite different from your average human. The standard hollywood alien... short, large black eyes, pale grey skin. They have no emotions. They are known for their sciences and exploration.

Those are just a couple of the ones in our own neighborhood....

What do they want us to do?

Simple. Evolve as all civilizations do once they have reached our point. To go beyond the materialistic way of living into an integrated society of love, wisdom and peace. To create technology that benefits all mankind, to create a strong community and government which we can take into the Galactic Society. To grow as a species into a spiritual way of living in peace with all of creation. To take responsibility for all of our actions. To interact in harmony with one another.

To put it in a nutshell... how do you expect to get along with aliens, if we can't even get along with each other?

How do you know this information?

I've been talking with them for some years now.

Why doesn't anybody particularly influential ever get "contacted" and put to work?

Oh but they do. Sadly, in our society, they are either mocked, or ignored, 90% of the time when they come out with such information. Most of the time they are simply too afraid to come out with such information for fear of being ridiculed or taken from their influential position. I don't have to worry about such things, I've already been mocked and ridiculed into the ground.

More questions. Come on I know you have some burning you up.


--------------------

Edited by Shroomism (11/27/02 01:14 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Evolving]
    #1089645 -

Shroomism, I would like to ask a question. Is sex with alien chicks as wild as they say?.

Yes it is. Sometimes better.  :laugh: 


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089673 -

Thanks for taking the time to reply to these questions man.. I've got some more though:

How do you communicate with these aliens?
Why are these species named after constellations which only appear as those certain constellations with that English name from here on Earth?
You have physically interacted with all of these beings?
Why would they not appear to everybody to prevent all the disbelief and mockery or whatever else one has been contacted apparently has to put up with? Why do they select only a few people who may be pretty unusual or seemingly incredible to begin with? Why not just "hello look we're here and we'd like you guys to join in, so why don't you get your act together and we'll start clueing you in on whats going on around you," Edit#1(addition): to everybody all at once? (end edit)
Why don't we have any types of transportation that they have if they've been interacting with us for so long?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
I'll have plenty more


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/27/02 01:43 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089685 -

Aliens would not be all that different than us if you discected it.

We would all just be a soul living life.

:tongue:



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1089687 -

lol ok when did I say otherwise?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089724 -

Oh another question as well:

People speak of DMT in relation to alien contact experiences... Have you tried DMT Shroomism?

Do you have any insight or even random thoughts on any kind of connection between the two?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089754 -

How do you communicate with these aliens?

Primarilly through telepathy (subconscious communication) and dreams.

Why are these species named after constellations which only appear as those certain constellations with that English name from here on Earth?

These are only names so that we are able to understand. I'm sure they don't call themselves that in their own tongue when amongst themselves. We identify with stars, so they say, we are from there... and so we put a label onto it in order to grasp it.

Why would they not appear to everybody to prevent all the disbelief and mockery or whatever else one has been contacted apparently has to put up with?

According to them, they have appeared to everyone. They say that everyone on Earth has had some contact with an extraterrestial in some form or another, whether it be through physical contact, telepathic communication, or just a visit in the dream state. Most of them being 4th dimensional however, it is outside of our range of perception in the 'normal senses'. Telepathy occurs in the subconscious, so it can occur without anyone being consciously aware of it. We are moving into the '4th dimension' . They are waiting for us. Earth as a whole needs to be at certain level of spiritual maturity before they can reveal themselves on a global level. So until then, they are working with individuals, preparing us one at a time for this event. It's not so much a matter of getting contact as it is remembering and recognizing it.....

Why do they select only a few people who may be pretty unusual or seemingly incredible to begin with?

Most likely because those are the people that are most open to outside or higher forces and are consciously more in touch with their subconscious., therefore more easily able to perceive the experiences. They don't just select only a few people... only these few people come out with it because they are not afraid.

Why not just "hello look we're here and we'd like you guys to join in, so why don't you get your act together and we'll start clueing you in on whats going on around you."

They would love to do that, except for two things:
1. As of right now, there is a rule called Non-interference. Which means that highly evolved beings cannot physically interact with lesser developed civilizations (or what they call planetbound civilizations) Their contact is very limited as they can only communicate telepathically or make dream visits or physical contact in extenuating circumstances. This is because they do not want to interfere with our natural evolution *until* we have reached a point where we can assume responsibility for our own actions.
2. This has been done in the past when we were even less developed, and it caused chaos. This is why the rule is in place. We also saw them as Gods back then, which they did not want. Right now, if aliens just started flying around and landing everywhere and saying "hullo!" it would cause hysteria. We HAVE TO be at a certain level of spiritual maturity before we can fully interact with them. They are here to help guide us into the Galatic Society..hold our hand if you will....but not carry us. They will reveal themselves on the Global level when the time is right. We have been being prepared for this event for some time, starting with Roswell and the increasing alien presence in the media and whatnot... we need to be comfortable with them first.

Why don't we have any types of transportation that they have if they've been interacting with us for so long?

Because it is too advanced for us to understand. Or we are missing some key ingredients. There is evidence that the government has been experimenting with found alien technology for some time, trying to reverse-engineer an alien craft to make their own. Anyway, if the government did have this technology, why would they tell the public about it? Methinks they have not been able to succesfully reproduce an exact replica of an alien craft, but have used some of the technologies from them. Again, we need to have a thourough understanding and spiritual maturity of several things if we are to comprehend and use this technology. Travelling through the universe with ease is not to be taken lightly.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089767 -

People speak of DMT in relation to alien contact experiences... Have you tried DMT Shroomism?

Do you have any insight or even random thoughts on any kind of connection between the two?

I have tried DMT one time, and it was an amazing experience. Not one I can easily ascribe words to, but essentially I entered deep...deep into my subconscious where I met with my higher self and all of creation. There were many beings there.

The connection I make is that DMT allows you to consciously enter the subconscious, and since all alien contact is done subconsciously, and not consciously... that when people smoke DMT they become aware of the alien contact that has been there all along but just hasn't been noticed


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089776 -

Try taking in 5 grams dried and closing your eyes while listening to Fiaap De Oiadd. <--It's like ripping through another dimension. Holy fuck!

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :smile: :blush:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089796 -

Excellent stuff, Shroomism! I've got some more for ya for now... first, regarding:

"Again, we need to have a thourough understanding and spiritual maturity of several things if we are to comprehend and use this technology."

Several things = ?

And you'd said "So until then" meaning until "we're ready" for contact..... What's their estimate on when the Earthlings will be ready? They've done this before, I assume, so it seems they'd at least have a rough estimate? 2012 is it?

Won't we all still have to go to work and school and all this other crap even after we've been welcomed to this glactic federation?

What is the galactic federation up to nowadays anyway? What are current challenges they're facing out there in the universe? Are we realistically going to be able to help them with anything?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
i had a couple questions up above these too; don't know if you saw them


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089807 -

"that when people smoke DMT they become aware of the alien contact that has been there all along but just hasn't been noticed"

Was DMT the first contact experience you really recognized as legitimate alien contact, or had you already been KNOWINGLY communicating with them before this?

Have they heard Shpongle? Do they find artwork useless or powerful?

What information have they given you personally that you didn't read or obtain from somewhere else that you feel could be useful?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/27/02 02:19 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089835 -

"Again, we need to have a thourough understanding and spiritual maturity of several things if we are to comprehend and use this technology."

Several things = ?

Several things being:

1. We need to unite as a species of Earth, not be seperated as individual nations. We are all humans on the same planet. We need to embrace and accept our diversity. This is key. What alien would want to show their presence to a world full of people that cant even get along with each other and are fighting over stupid things like land and money...they'd have to be crazy!

2. We need to take 100% responsibility for our actions. The universe has no place for people who blame the problems they created on others. Taking responsibility includes acknowledging and fixing things that are wrong, instead of just ignoring them.

Those are the most important issues.


And you'd said "So until then" meaning until "we're ready" for contact..... What's their estimate on when the Earthlings will be ready? They've done this before, I assume, so it seems they'd at least have a rough estimate? 2012 is it?

2003 is the rough estimate. 2012 is the definate.

Won't we all still have to go to work and school and all this other crap even after we've been welcomed to this glactic federation?

Yes, except things will function much differently. You wont go to a job you hate day after day and come back unfulfilled and unhappy. You will choose your own job, based on what you enjoy doing and are good at. Everyone will be provided for, everyone will work doing what they enjoy or ar good at, everyone will fill a niche. Everyone will work together... the jobs will function so that every job works off each other... when everyone is connected and in harmony... things flow much easier. School will be the same...you will learn what you want to learn, but there will be vast universal wisdom to learn... so it is very exciting. People who are excited to learn and WANT to learn, learn much faster. That's a really basic way of explaining it but I think you get an idea. Our society will not be based on income, but love, acceptance, and understanding.


What is the galactic federation up to nowadays anyway? What are current challenges they're facing out there in the universe?

Same thing they are always up to... maintaining order and peace in this galaxy. Current focus is on the Earth and it's spiritual development and future initiation into the Federation. We are the next prospects to join, so they are focusing on us and our world to help us progress to the next level. Biggest challenges include freeing us from the limiting control of the power figures... the wealthy elite who are only interested in power and money who try and control our world and our information. The influential cabal on our planet who seeks domination and manipulates the masses. They are trying to rid these people of their power and give it back to the citizens. Other tasks include but are not limited to: individual contact to spread the message, healing sessions... individually and globally... regulating contact to our planet to stop self serving figures from entering the scene... and generally preparing society for the "zero point" or...ascension into 4th density.

Are we realistically going to be able to help them with anything?

All are children of creation, and all have something to contribute. We underestimate our potential. They do not however.



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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089837 -

1. We need to unite as a species of Earth, not be seperated as individual nations.

Bush must be very spiritual as he would love to unite the world under his dictatorship.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089847 -

Was DMT the first contact experience you really recognized as legitimate alien contact, or had you already been KNOWINGLY communicating with them before this?


My first CONSCIOUS experience occured after I had taken some LSD. However, after that I began remembering incidents that had been occuring since I was a young child. The DMT experience came about a year after the first conscious contact.

Most of the time however, I am sober.

Have they heard Shpongle? Do they find artwork useless or powerful?

Any form of art that enhances creativity and promotes spiritual growth they stand behind. They find artwork is VERY important to spiritual growth., and is quite powerful. Art speaks to the subconscious. Crop circles anyone?

What information have they given you personally that you didn't read or obtain from somewhere else that you feel could be useful?

Well...most of the information they have given to me that has been useful is very personal information, such as to cut off negative relationships with some other beings... how to heal certain spiritual dysfunctions, how to practice esp... etc... But I have been given some specific information that doesn't appear to have anything to do with me. I get the impression that I am not the only one getting the same information, I have found others who recieved the exact same things. Most of the things I learn from them... I pass on here anyway. It's not like its secret information, my job is to spread the information to as many people as possible.



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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089848 -

OK You've answered as many questions as I'm willing to ask, Shroomism - you've been a great sport - thanks for putting up with me for so long.

I'm still not convinced....... maybe I'm just "not ready" or whatever but I really don't believe it at this time :smile:

I'm glad I went over all of this though - aliens or not, you've got good values my man :smile:

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Peace, Shroomism


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1089857 -

Bush must be very spiritual as he would love to unite the world under his dictatorship.

There is a BIG difference between uniting the world into one global, controlling dichotomy that only seeks wealth and power over others, in a fear based society. Then a global society that is controlled by the people, that is based on free will, sovereignity, love, compassion for all things, and living in harmony with the planet and each other.

BIG difference.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1089862 -

You don't have to believe my good man, just love your fellow humans and keep an open mind, as you have been doing. That's all you need to do.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1089991 -

you sound very convincing.. and what you wrote is exactly the way i imagine more advanced civilizations. so i have a question too:
Do they know why the universe exists? who(what) have craeted it and why... this is a question that is bothering me for some time :smirk: 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090011 -

There can't be an original creator, in my opinion...... even if there's a god who created everything we know, that god is still sitting wherever it sits thinking "hmmm what the hell am I doing here how'd this all happen.... what created me? why am i here? whats the meaning of all this?"

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Life is the yin to death's yang


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1090045 -

exactly.. thats why i'm so confused about the creation of the universe... and hope the aliens might know the answer :smile: 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090070 -

Do they know why the universe exists? who(what) have craeted it and why

heh...that's quite a question. I'll try to answer as best as possible but keep in mind I am a mere human with limited perception. I will pass on what they have taught me.

According to Pleiadian science, who have been able to travel outside of time to explore the very beginnings of our universe, but have also traveled beyond its barriers and learned from other races far more advanced than themselves about the infinite evolution of creation.

Our universe is inside a much larger realm of Creational energy that they call the Absolutum. There are 10 to the 49th power number of universes in this large and almost incomprehensible realm of spiritual energy. They have only been able to travel to one other universe so far, but have some understanding that each universe seems to be slightly different in size and development, yet are all similar in shape. It is believed that the Absolutum is within an even greater Creational Force, but nothing is known of that.

The spiritual energy of the Absolutum is called a Creation. A Creation does not exist in physical form.. It is intelligence in a form commonly called spirit. It is a nonmaterial living form of life made up of the spiritual energy of all the life forms that are within it. The large body of Creational Energy, the Absolutum, is a living life form itself and must continually strive to evolve. Evolution is learning. The process of thinking creates energy that forms into a logical sequence of thought and creates knowledge. As knowledge becomes more complex, it turns into wisdom learned through experience. It is the wisdom learned from experience that creates spiritual growth. In order for spiritual energy to evolve, it must create material life forms that develop energy through thought engaged in experience. This means that the Creational Spiritual Energy of the Absolutum knows that it must create material life forms in order to continue its growth through evolution. These material life forms are called universes.

There is much to explain the cycle of how a universe is created and how it evolves, which would take pages. But essentially, the universe exists in order to progress the evolution of the Absolutum and all that reside within it.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090087 -

Unfortunately there's no way to verify any of this ;-)

oh hey you had forgotten the Shpongle question :smile: but we're past that heheh


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090100 -

so... they also don't know the full answer... :smile:
anyway, this also is exacly what i thought about why the universe exists... but it doesn't answer why the Absolutum exists...? and what is the thing that's bigger than the Absolutum and why does it exists... etc... etc...

ok here goes 2 more questions:
1. Will they try to help if something like a Nuclear WW3 starts? Or they are already doing so to prevent it?
2. about the thing that all people will work what they like - well, personally i'm working what i like and i'm very happy with my work but there are people who just don't know what they like to work... i'm an university student and a lot of my friends are learning things they don't like - they are learning just to have somekind of job after that... 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090156 -


Unfortunately there's no way to verify any of this

Nope, not yet.

oh hey you had forgotten the Shpongle question

I thought I answered it with the art thing? Yes they like Shpongle.

Will they try to help if something like a Nuclear WW3 starts? Or they are already doing so to prevent it?

I have been told they have anti-nuclear weapon technology, that they will use if it comes to that point. Basically neutralizes a nuclear blast. I have also been told that many of the worlds nuclear weapons have already been neutralized, but we don't know that. They are doing everything they can to prevent any war from happening at all. Any war that happens at this point would be a big one. I have been told many times there will be threats of war, but there will be no war. (pertaining to this whole middle east - Us ordeal)
(read revelations)

about the thing that all people will work what they like - well, personally i'm working what i like and i'm very happy with my work but there are people who just don't know what they like to work... i'm an university student and a lot of my friends are learning things they don't like - they are learning just to have somekind of job after that...

Well of course people will have to try new things, its not like you have to pick a job and stay with it your whole life. There is something for everyone. Everyone can be happy.

anyway, this also is exacly what i thought about why the universe exists... but it doesn't answer why the Absolutum exists...? and what is the thing that's bigger than the Absolutum and why does it exists... etc... etc...

When we need to know, we will know. For now is it simply beyond our comprehension. And the Pleiadians say it is beyond their comprehension as well, but they have a little bit more of a grasp on it. What we do know is that we exist and we are here, so lets make the best of it.







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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090192 -

I have been told they have anti-nuclear weapon technology, that they will use if it comes to that point. Basically neutralizes a nuclear blast. I have also been told that many of the worlds nuclear weapons have already been neutralized, but we don't know that....

and isn't this messing with our evelotion/history wich they were forbidden to do?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090213 -

In "You are becomig a Galactic Human" Sheldon Nidle states that we will be fully into the photon belt by 1995! now i hear its been moved back a few years! Why would these aliens give their prophets false information? If we can calculate a comets path accurately surely it wouldnt be hard for them to accurately predict when we will be entering the photon belt?


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Always Smi2le

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090216 -

I think the way the rule works, is that they are allowed to interact, just as long as we don't know it was them. Like they wouldn't just land in the middle of a battlefield and say everybody stop. They could neutralize a weapon without making their presence known.

They are allowed to interact and change our history, but we can't know it was them that did it...if that makes any sense. I'm not fully sure on this myself as I have asked this same question but got confused by the answer because it is a complex rule, and they do make exceptions to it under major circumstances. Basically the rule is in place to stop power seeking races from landing on Earth and taking over and making us into slaves.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: GazzBut]
    #1090227 -

Gazz... Read this..the last paragraph especially.
This is what it says
Some of our brothers, the Pleiadeans and Sirians, have stated that the Earth will enter a Photon Belt soon, at an indeterminate time in the future. Why would this time be indeterminate? Do they not know the location of the Photon Belt, the rate of movement? This time is given as indeterminate because entry into the Photon Belt is not determined by the measurable movements of the planets and the motions of the galaxies. The entry into the Photon Belt is determined by the indeterminate behavior and decisions of humanity. Should the orientation of the Earth progress fast enough, so that the Earth would enter 4th Density, then the Photon Belt would be experienced. As it is, the entry into 4th Density is not expected for some years after the cataclysms, and the Photon Belt effects will be taken into consideration at that time.


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Edited by Shroomism (11/27/02 05:18 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090293 -

This is my point Shroomism - Sheldon Nidle states it will be in 1995 in "galactic human" why??


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Always Smi2le

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090297 -

hm.. what is photon belt?

Basically the rule is in place to stop power seeking races from landing on Earth and taking over and making us into slaves.
i'm confused by this - tought it was part of the evolution to overcome the hunger for power? what is this race intelegent enough to land on earth, and be so barbaric to want to make us slaves...?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090315 -

Sheldon Nidle states it will be in 1995 in "galactic human" why??

I haven't read the book so I am not sure. But thereis a time period of about 10 years where we could enter the 4th dimension, some people thought it would occur earlier in the time frame than later, but 'critical mass' is essential for the ascension. Predicted dates can be off, but the general time frame stands.

Basically the rule is in place to stop power seeking races from landing on Earth and taking over and making us into slaves.
i'm confused by this - tought it was part of the evolution to overcome the hunger for power? what is this race intelegent enough to land on earth, and be so barbaric to want to make us slaves...?

You would think so, but about 10% or less of the highly evolved races are service-to-self, meaning they seek power and control. They are no match for the service-to-others, who are the Galatic Federation, but they still prey on less evolved races and each other. Think Star Wars.. the empire. They may be more highly evolved than us, but they are still not fully evolved. I cannot fully understand their motives as I am not of their orientation...but hostile races of intelligent beings do exist... though they are the minority. They keep a balance, I think.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090339 -

Are these beings on this planet at all times or on their star systems? How do they monitor us? Tim Leary and Robert Anton Wilson spoke of communication with the star system Sirius. Heard of this? What is your background if you don't mind me asking...

I have an open mind but have a hard time believing you. I've had no contact with extraterrestials and think the entire thing is just Star Trek. I apologize if I come off like an ass but it sounds to me like you're a good science fiction writer. Why would any beings want anything to do with us? What is with all of the mutilations people speak of that are done by beings not of this world, think Fire in The Sky.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1090360 -

Are these beings on this planet at all times or on their star systems?

They have research teams on our planet, just like we send scientists to live on Antarctica or divers underwater... they are explorers. Of course they have everyone else at home in their own star systems, or exploring space and finding new planets and such.

How do they monitor us?

The moniter thoughts mostly.. esp I guess you could say. Technology as well.

Tim Leary and Robert Anton Wilson spoke of communication with the star system Sirius. Heard of this?

Communication with Sirius? Yes. Tim Leary and Robert Anton Wilson speaking about it? No.

What is your background if you don't mind me asking...

I'm just another human. My background in what?

You don't have to believe anything. Why would they want to have something to do with us? The same reason you would want to get to know the people you were travelling with on a long journey. We are cosmic brothers and sisters, holding hands and stepping into the unknown is better than travelling alone.

What is with all of the mutilations people speak of that are done by beings not of this world

Scare tactics by the US government in co-op with self serving beings. They want us to fear aliens.







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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1090439 -

I tried a version of the crowley ritual used by Wilson, i had the distinct impression of being surrounded by shadowy cats, the next day i had a couple of cat synchronicities. At the peak of the experience when i was seeing cats i freaked out as it was supposed to be the dog star i was contacting and here i was surrounded by cats! At that point the cats coupled with my inability to let go of my ego led me into a fairly scary place.

It wasnt unitll 2 years later i read a book in which it casually mentioned that cats come from sirius. Nice slow burning synchronicity that. I tend not to believe I was in contact with aliens from sirius that night. who knows?


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Always Smi2le

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090620 -

They are trying to rid these people of their power and give it back to the citizens.

These aliens must be pretty feeble as with their "help" things are getting much worse.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1090626 -

...and what you wrote is exactly the way i imagine more advanced civilizations

That is uncanny seeing as how you both have similar cultural backgrounds and have been exposed to the same media.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1090643 -

Unfortunately there's no way to verify any of this ;-)

Actually there would be if it this fantasy had any veracity. Anyone as deeply in touch with Pleidian science (read up on Billy Meier, the "original" Pleidian contactee who is a total fraud) would be able to come up with JUST ONE piece of new information that could be confirmed. But as shroomism is just rehashing old science fiction and zetatalk gibberish, he cannot.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1090968 -

"I understand. So tell us about the second night... "

Ok, the second night was....... the second night was......

Just like the first, only better. :wink:

:grin: :grin:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1090973 -

Fascinating, even if it was a long read.

Thanks :smile:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1091010 -

Hey Shroomism, what kinda drugs are the aliens into? Have you ever sparked up a joint with em, or have they ever sparked up some intergalactic ganja with you?


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Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1091271 -



When i was feeling and i made this sculpture i felt in my hands "higher humans"

Have you tried helping people who dont want to listen to you, or better yet they dont want to listen to the truth? do you keep trying or do you realize that you arent in control of them and let them realize it on there own because no matter what you say they still dont listen to you? do you wait to let them face the realities which they themselves have so long put off from facing?

would you know what was in front of you if you had never opened your eyes?


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What?

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1092480 -

I'm sorry but this all stikes me as bullshit. Why would a super advanced race of beings have a Federation where they monitor other beings. This just doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't expect a group of advanced aliens to still be conforming to this primitive way of organizing themselves into sectors similar to a government. To star wars ish to me. Also, our society has been going into the gutter for god knows how long. Wouldn't we see some kind of diversion soon??? Aliens exist, they just don't know or don't care about us. If I were an alien I would be more interested in the beauty on this planet, the animals and all the glorious fungus, not some stupid species of monkey who blow things up and type on mushroom boards ; )

I'm no exception to all this stinky monkey business...

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1092505 -

"Wouldn't we see some kind of diversion soon???"

Well the answer I've gotten to these kinds of things is: "Why yes! Of course! Very soon it will change. You shall see. Soon..."


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1092510 -

Haha. Exactly. Didn't the hard core fundamentalist Christians talk on a similar track?? Something about the end of the world, judgement day when 2000 hit.

Oh lordy, lordy, lordy....

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1093122 -

we are part of this beautiful planet and aliens can't just igonore us... also we are the dominating intelegent race here... we might be still a little stupid but we are changing for good - just compare to what we were a hundred years ago and what we are now - standard of living, female rights, stupid religion believes, etc, etc...  if you see someone who is slowy changing for good, and with a little help from you he'll start changing faster, what would you do? just ignore him? i don't think an intelegent race would do that... :smile: 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1093224 -

Yes we're quite "intelegent," aren't we?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
sorry; couldn't hold that one back :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1093225 -

i never mentioned "quite" :smile: 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1093271 -

LOL. Oh irony. Yes I do believe that we are a little different than we were 100 years ago. But are we really? Just because I have hot water in my faucet a television with 500+ channels and a computer to absorb into doesn't say much about our culture as an intelligent species. Technological improvements are not enough to suffice an intelligent jump. Did you invent all this technology? No, you merely utilize it as I do. We are still in a slump and are no different than we were 1000 years ago. The majority of humans are still as close minded as ever and are either too lazy or too afraid for drastic change. Look at our supposed DRUG WAR as a clear example. Psychedelics, a powerful mind altering tool that should be utilized and studied to further the potential of mankind is highly illegal and socially frowned upon. Yet cigarettes, booze and mindless TV programs circulate this GREAT NATION... You wanna talk ironic technological achievments?? Let's talk outer space. We land on the moon, or supposedly land on the moon, for what? Power over the Reds. Exploration was the begining but power and greed took over. The ones who pull the strings like to let human beings know that we are nothing, have no potential and that we should just clock in 9am every morning and go on auto-pilot. Don't take drugs, don't read, don't take a stance for anything, even your humanity and being alive. No. Be an ant please and serve us.

LONG LIVE AMERICA, HOME OF THE BRAVE and the curious! ha!ha!



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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1093293 -

1) technological achivements and better standart of living is a good base for better spiritual improvement - if you are materially satisfied, you see that this is not enough and you have more time and oppurtunities for spiritual growth... do you think 100-200 years ago it was possible to grow shrooms? to talk with people like me in forums like this one? the oppurtunity to know that there are others like you is VERY important.
2) you didn't say anything about the other things i have mentioned, which are even more important - people are more free (my example was with women rights, and i think it illustrates pretty good an evolution in opening our minds) what percentage of your friends believe in god and go to church? and waht do you think it was going to be if you lived 100-200 years ago?

generally you have to be blind if you can't see that we are heading in a good direction in our spiritual and scientific evolutions(wich i think are unbreakably conected) even all the stupidy and that surrounds us is nothing compared to what it was in the past...

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1093300 -

We are more free, I'll give you that. But how free. YOu think I want this Texan trying to blow up half the world? I didn't ask for that. I didn't ask to breathe in pollutants everyday or be told that it is "the normal thing" to conform and go with the flow of society. these things were handed to me when I came into this world. YES, the people that are the open minded, the ones who want change reside on this board and strewn throughout the world. It's always been the youth but even the youth today I believe is faltering. We are too easy to accept the world that is presented with us. Humans have changed but it seems like we're running in circles as a whole society. I don't see a mass movement of intelligent thought and why would there be. People like to be secure.

I don't believe by having technological achievements we as humans will stive for a higher spiritual meaning within ourselves. We will always be materialistic no matter what. This is why we're on this planet. We cannot give up the material body. It's who we are.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1093309 -

My response posts may sound bleak but that's how the world is. Human beings, as a majority, like to stay where they are. I would assume 30% stive for change. That 30% usually range from 15 - 30. After 30, you kinda see that it's too hard, then 50 comes, you're about to go, no bother changing anything now. Dead. Look at the counterculutre of the sixties. Where are they now? They're bank executives and wall street analysts. We're all bound to go down that road.

KEEP the youth alive. Do your part by protesting the right of the human. If those that are in control see that we the people, the youth of this nation, are indeed One, only then is change possible. At this point though, the kids will watch their Real World and their VH1 and buy their System of a Down.

maybe things will change

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1093342 -

We are more free, I'll give you that. But how free. YOu think I want this Texan trying to blow up half the world? I didn't ask for that.

everything that can be good, can be also bad. everything that helps you, can kill you.. there's no way you can escape from this, it's just the way the whole universe is setup. it's up to you to decide what to do with your freedom.


I didn't ask to breathe in pollutants everyday or be told that it is "the normal thing" to conform and go with the flow of society. these things were handed to me when I came into this world.

you have the freedom to decide if you want to go with the flow or be a little stream by your self... don't blame the others, the society.. blaming is the easiest thing to do


YES, the people that are the open minded, the ones who want change reside on this board and strewn throughout the world. It's always been the youth but even the youth today I believe is faltering. We are too easy to accept the world that is presented with us. Humans have changed but it seems like we're running in circles as a whole society. I don't see a mass movement of intelligent thought and why would there be.

i doubt that there is ever going to be a mass movement. it's a silent change that is growing from generation to generation. it's evolution of the mind. it's acting the same way it acted when we were apes and slowy became humans. i doubt it that there were movements among the apes... lol i just imagined a couple of apes shouting to the others "Let's open our minds.. lets become humans!" :smile:


People like to be secure

yes, absolutly right. so you don't want to be secure or what? and i don't think this is an obstacle for spiritual growth. i think what you mean here is an unwillingness to change, wich is a fact - but this is a thing that is also a part of the evolution process. today, may be not more than 10-20% of the society is willing to change, tomorrow it's going to be 30%, the day after that 40%... etc.


I don't believe by having technological achievements we as humans will stive for a higher spiritual meaning within ourselves. We will always be materialistic no matter what. This is why we're on this planet. We cannot give up the material body. It's who we are.

we are a union between material body and spirutual energy. you can't say we are only material or only spiritual, because it's no true. the material is providing the energy for the spiritual. you have to eat in order to survive. most of the people at the moment still haven't satisfied fully their material needs. of course there are people who are simply materialistic, but they are not that much... 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1093623 -

We're more free? Are we really?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: lof]
    #1093936 -

if you are materially satisfied, you see that this is not enough and you have more time and oppurtunities for spiritual growth
Stone-age Bushmen in Africa work two hours a day for food and then just chill out the rest of the time. They've got lots of time for spiritual growth and they're materially satisfied without barely even having to work for it.

people are more free (my example was with women rights, and i think it illustrates pretty good an evolution in opening our minds)
I don't think women are more free than when we all lived in the jungle. I don't think anybody is as free as we were then. There weren't cops in the stone age.

generally you have to be blind if you can't see that we are heading in a good direction in our spiritual and scientific evolutions(wich i think are unbreakably conected) even all the stupidy and that surrounds us is nothing compared to what it was in the past...
Did you build a time machine and go to the past or something? I think that every generation looks back and says "what a bunch of idiots." Think about the destruction of the environment. All the evidence is there, everybody is fully aware that species are going to go extinct everyday and that the climate is changing, but we don't stop. In the future when there's no ozone or biodiversity people will think of us "What a bunch of fucking idiots, I can't believe they let everything fall apart when they knew exactly what was going to happen if they continued polluting."

So yeah I disagree.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1094486 -

I have some questions for ya Shroomism.
Do these aliens exist in the way you or i do, or do they exist in the way pink elephants floating thru the window while your tripping balls do?

Could u elaborate on this 4th density thing?

It has been suggested in this thread that their will be an "acension" by 2012. It was also said that there would not be a global movement in intelligence/spirituality. So will this be a massive global acension or will it be the few who are spiritualy/intelectually "evolved" enough?


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1094863 -

I think you have to be on drugs to make any sort of contact with them.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1095170 -

In the way that you and I exist, that is...conscious intelligent beings with a soul

Could u elaborate on this 4th density thing?

3rd density, which we live in, sub-atomic particles vibrate at a rate of 9,000-12,000 times per second. That is the actual physical vibration of the atoms, of that which is in our perceptable range. Our consciousness in this plane is generally a very subjective, polarized reality. That is, we see ourselves as individuals as opposed to being a part of the whole. We tend to see the world in polarities... good/bad, happy/sad, fear/love etc..
In the book Prisms of Lyra by Lyssa Royal it is described as such:
Volumetric awareness, ego, loss of group identity, development of individual identity, ability to remember past and cognize the future while retaining present awareness. This is the density where human beings emerge. It is a vibration that creates the illusion of separation and thus a challenge toward awakening. Presently humanity is going thru a transition period into 4th dnesity reality which can account for the many rapid changes the human race is undergoing. This is the frequency that expresses the most separation from the Whole. It is from here that many lessons about integration are learned. This is the most intense of all levels in its cultivation of growth with the Self. Cetaceans (dolphins and whales) presently exist simultaneously in 3rd and 4th densities and are transiting out of 3rd along with humanity.

4th density is physically a higher rate of vibration than the 3rd. The sub-atomic particles vibrate at 12,000-15,000 times per second. The vibration is faster than those in the 3rd density.. thus, physical objects in the 4th density are less dense than in the 3rd. Being at a higher vibration, things in 4th density are often beyond our range of 3rd dimensional perception.
In Prisms of Lyra 4th density is described as such:
Containment of volumetric awareness, superconsciousness, reintegration of group identity without loss of ego identity; as vibration increases, perception of past, present, and future become more fluid along with the ability to interface with multidimensional and multidensity realities, negatively oriented consciousness becomes more difficult to maintain. Presently on Earth, 4th density reality is overlapping third. In humanity's case, this can account for the increased desire for unity, peace and unconditional love as opposed to the illusion of separation that characterizes third density. The vibrationary rate of one's reality is stepped up, and therefore one may be faced with personal issues in a much more rapid and intense way.

It has been suggested in this thread that their will be an "acension" by 2012. It was also said that there would not be a global movement in intelligence/spirituality. So will this be a massive global acension or will it be the few who are spiritualy/intelectually "evolved" enough?

It is a global ascension. Earth will move completely into 4th density and thus humanity will as well.
The 2012 ascension... is into 5th density. Beyond time, beyond material existance.


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Edited by Shroomism (11/29/02 12:30 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1096507 -

**In the way that you and I exist, that is...conscious intelligent beings with a soul**
The pink elephants may very well be conscious and with a soul.  I guess the real question would have been do they exist in 3rd density.....which i take it they do not.

Could u elaborate on this 4th density thing?
killer answer

The acension things sounds awesome.  I hope it's true.  Existance beyond the material plane has got to be awesome.  Almost like a neverending trip.  Wait that's what the whole universe is already :grin:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1096621 -

"It is a global ascension. Earth will move completely into 4th density and thus humanity will as well.
The 2012 ascension... is into 5th density. Beyond time, beyond material existance."

Wait so when do we "ascend" into the 4th density? Don't we have to be THERE before we can make it to the 5th? If the 5th is 2012, when's the 4th?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096661 -

I don't think it's density as much as a mindset or another sense-kinda thing.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1096669 -

well yeah but I'm just trying to get straight on the timing of all this - for my records :smile:

I'm really starting to look forward to 2012 - in my opinion it will be a global let-down for many people, but as I'd said earlier, maybe I just haven't like "seen the light" yet or whatever  :grin: :cool:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096737 -

I prefer not to look forward to anything. It's always a let-down.  :frown:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096831 -

I'm not saying I believe it's going to happen. I'm just saying it would be cool if it did.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1096921 -

I don't think it's density as much as a mindset or another sense-kinda thing.

I think Shroomism was referring to density of consciousness.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1096943 -

"I prefer not to look forward to anything. It's always a let-down."

what I mean is I'm looking forward to it because I'm definitely interested to see what will happen with these people who center their existence around these moments - will they simply say "whoops.... uhh looks like we were wrong.. nevermind folks." will they just push the deadline back further.... i'm interested :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096968 -

Something has to happen sometime, right?  :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1096974 -

well what many people don't notice is that "something" is always happening, and its slow - its never some instant process where suddenly one day everybody will wake up and POW everything is different. Change is a slow process - evolution is a very very CAREFUL and TIME-CONSUMING process, and it doesn't fuck around with instant changes - thats pretty risky.

BUT of course, thats all just my opinion - I'm no scientist/biologist/whatever


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/29/02 08:37 PM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096982 -

Yeah, a lot of people think evolution happens all of the sudden. I just smack them upside the head and tell them they are a dumbass.

:grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1096984 -

Imagine if gravity suddenly stopped existing.  That would be one hell of a sudden change :wink:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1701757 -

hmmm.. so have you learn anything NEW from your alien friends, shroomism?


--------------------
Cemetery lady, my cemetery girl
Cemetery baby, I want you in my world
Cemetery woman, we can still be down
You're more than just a corpse to a psychopathic clown

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: DrBonG]
    #1701843 -

"A planet's biosphere could grow and change and die and regrow for infinity without producing a creature with a brain larger than a walnut or any brain at all."

It could but after millions of years and millions of planets. It happened to us, only ignorance can beleive we are so unique.

"We and our concept of vehicular space travel rose out of unique and no longer existing conditions somewhere in east Africa, and we aren't likely to find anything similar on other planets."

Why is it unique for a human to have the survival instinct to get off this planet and the common sense to speed up transport? An alien regardless of how it evolved must follow at least some universal trends. I think any animal that is living, by definition, must try to continue its own existance even if in the case of most animals its just running away. For a more intelligent animal many of the ideas we as humans have had would be universal.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Ego Death]
    #1702185 -

I thought everyone saw the dimensional travelers eventually.... giving enough tripping experience.... I don't know if they're technically "aliens", I think that "angels" or "deamons" might be more fitting. one was "savior cross", one was the "squiggles" (they saved me from the void), some looked like people ("guides"), some there just energy.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1702204 -

You state there are no aliens almost like a fact. That's hilarious.

You're talking about a Universe we cannot even measure.. fuck.. we haven't even left our own solar system.. and you're saying almost beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is almost no way intelligence can exist outside of our own biosphere. I don't know what scientific dogma to disseminate first, but I'm not even going to bother. There is more evidence to suggest there is intelligent life than the opposite.

Besides, what intelligent, highly-evolved, space-exploring beings would want to make open contact with a civilization of savages that can't even get along on their own planet, and get past their silly little egos? We spend more money on war than healthcare. Think about it.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #1703103 -

so you're really gunna ride this thing all the way, man?

you don't feel like these people have fooled you into anything?

we're the ones being fooled right?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Strumpling]
    #1703124 -

Until the bitter end.
Who's being fooled? I care not either way.
Actually I forgot I ever posted in this thread, until I looked at the first page. It's not even worth arguing over.


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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1704502 -

The calculations and probabilities in the original post are entirely meaningless. How exactly do you prove that something hasn't happened, simply because you've never seen it happen? Furthermore, how can you possibly back that up with a statistic which is also based on a lack of information?

Complete, utter bullshit. That's all there is to it.

I believe that aliens have never been observed to have visited the earth. This is very different then saying that I can prove that they haven't visited.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #1704582 -

Incredibly interesting post. I am glad someone bumped it back up, as it originally happened before I was a member. I haven't decided whether I believe it or not. Crazy stuff though. This has inspired me to go meditate for the first time in a while so that I can clear my mind to think about all of this.


--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1705092 -

Here's a rehash of the arguments why the odds of contact are slim right now.

The reason why we haven't detected any radio signals from other civilizations is that there probably aren't any civilizations within range that are leaking strong enough radiation in all directions. We ourselves have been leaking radio signals into space for only about 80 years, so only civilizations within a sphere with a 80 light-year radius could have noticed them. That limits the number of possible locations for some civilization that might have discovered us through their own SETI program. Another problem is that in order to detect our radio broadcasts they would need radio telescopes a 100 times more sensitive than what we have today in order to detect the signals at a distance of 0.01 light-years (10,000,000,000,000 km).

And even if they somehow miraculously did detect our signals and then decided to point a beacon towards us to try to contact us, the signal would have to be sent out from within 40 light-years in order for us to receive it today.

I also think it's unlikely that a civilization that has discovered radio will continue to leak radio signals into space for more than a couple of hundred years. Broadcast radio gets replaced with more efficient communication technologies. So the only civilizations that can be discovered by looking for radio signals are the ones that by chance are at the same development stage as we are, within a margin of maybe a couple of hundred years.

So the chances of detecting other civilizations through radio signalling are pathetically small, even if there is a copy of the Earth for each star in the galaxy and with a history of life just like ours. The exception is of course if they are more technologically advanced than us and still want to play our little game. I very much doubt that. I'm sure we will find friends out there eventually, but not at this stage of our civilization's development.

And remember, communication at the speed of light comes before space travel. There isn't even any need for space travel once you have established contact. Not until the sun explodes anyway.

Edited by Rhizoid (07/11/03 04:02 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #1705699 -

Personally i can't say im much into the aliens.

I believe that our daily conscieousness does follow a dream/dimensional structure (3rd/4th).

Even though ive never tryed Dmt, i think that the aliens, angels, elfs are parts of ourselfs, or future selfs we at current don't know or understand.

Dmt = future/the next dimension


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: dawn of a new day]
    #1706867 -

so how'd the meditation session go my man?

Any reflections/thoughts on this?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Strumpling]
    #1706936 -

Why haven't the aliens given us the cure for cancer or the theory of everything? No harm in that...



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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1707029 -

"Soon," Shroomnoob, they WILL!

"Soon," it will all be clear.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1707049 -

The ones willing to give those to us don't want to break the Universal Law of Free Will, and the ones that would break the Law to give them to us would rather we not have them.

Edited by Max Headroom (07/11/03 08:02 PM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Strumpling]
    #1707176 -

The meditation session was pretty interesting actually. Not because of any amazing reflections or thougths. As I mentioned before, it was the first time I'd meditated in a while after almost half a year of meditating nearly everyday. At first I was sweating, which is pretty normal because my room is hot as fuck, but a while later I noticed my body was starting to get goosebumps. Everytime that I started to lose concentration, the goosebumps would go away, but as soon as I refocused myself on my breathing, they would rush back through my body like a stream of energy. It was a great feeling everytime that it came back. As I finally opened my eyes and stopped meditating, I just felt euphoric and had absolutely no desire to move at all. Well sorry to bore you all with my in-depth description of my meditation. I don't really know what exactly I wanted to figure out last night when I set out to meditate, but clearing my mind felt great.


--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Swami]
    #1707549 -

<B> tar is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.
</B>

What makes you think we aren't in the center of the universe? If infinite from here is in all directions surrounding us, does that not make us the
center of inifinte?

What 4 planets are life-sustaining?!?!

Mercury - NO WAY, too close to the sun, and I don't believe it has an atmosphere.
Venus - NO WAY, the atmosphere is poisonous sulfur gas, good luck there buddy.
Earth - hmmm, there is much inteligent life, but there all also dominant idiots.
Mars - Possibly could have sustained life at one time or another, or future?hrmmmm

Any planet beyond this is simply too cold to sustain life, I doubt one of Jupiters moons could either.


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AH HA....

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1707995 -

I've just come in on this thread and have skim-read most of it up to here.. sorry if this point has already been made:

The universe is infinite. I think this can be assumed to be true as there should be no boundry. for the sake of this argument, I'm going to assume that the place in space where the big-bang occured is the centre of the universe (it doesn't really matter to the argument but makes it easier to explain. So one day, billions of years ago, some reaction took place which sent all the matter scattering all over the place.

Imagine drawing a straight line between every star and planet- you'd have a kind of wire mesh everything. Since the universe is infinite, the size of this mesh is insignificant.. It might as well be as big as a ball bearing, it is tiny in comparision to the infinite depths of space.

Everything is based on probabilites. There was a mathematical formula billions of years ago which would have calculated the probablity of me sitting at my desk today writing this message.

Seeing as the universe is infinite, surely somewhere out there, there will be other big bangs. An infinite number of big bangs at distances so far away as to be completely incomprehensible to the human mind. Based on probabilites, should there not be someone out there, billions upon billions upon billions of light-years away who looks just like me, sitting at his computer, writing a message on a magic mushroom message board?

think about it.. this bugs me sometimes..


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708002 -

Quote:
Why haven't the aliens given us the cure for cancer or the theory of everything? No harm in that...


It's like giving computers to south-africans that carry baskets on their heads... They'd look at you and go "Wha???".

I still the think government has a cure for AIDS though.. If Bush got the HIV I think they'd clear it up, not tell a soul about it, and he'd get right back to nuking foreign countries. I mean COME on.. they DID start the epidemic - they have to know how to cure it...


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708006 -

In an infinite universe all probabilities are reality somewhere. Why can't I be in the reality where I have a harem of 1000 for the most sexy women on the planet?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1708028 -

in other words.. there's intelligent life out there


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-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708065 -

Quote:
Seeing as the universe is infinite, surely somewhere out there, there will be other big bangs. An infinite number of big bangs at distances so far away as to be completely incomprehensible to the human mind. Based on probabilites, should there not be someone out there, billions upon billions upon billions of light-years away who looks just like me, sitting at his computer, writing a message on a magic mushroom message board?

think about it.. this bugs me sometimes..


Yeah, but that's just because "infinite" is such a strange concept. And that freaky feeling that there might be someone like me out there, I get that feeling everytime I look into another person's eyes! :eek:
   

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1708178 -

you know what I mean though? if it is infinite, then the probability of there being someone out there who is genetically identical and is living the exact same life should = 1. not only that, there should be an ifinite number of people somewhere out there who are genetically identical.

That is truly a strange concept, because the amount should be quantifiable; they're either there or they're not. can an infinite amount of people exist?


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708215 -

wait wait wait...

I started this thread so so long ago, and I don't remember what point I made at the beginning of it, but it may have been this, which is a counter to your infinite universe stuff.

In biological time, humans haven't been around that long. There are lots of species who are much older than we are. We're recent. In ecological time, we've barely arrived, and in geological time.. well, the rocks haven't even noticed us, we've been here for a blink of an eye. Planetary time, we've been around for an even more insignifigant amount of time. Universal time, we aren't even here.

Time is so hugely vast that the odds of two intelligent species existing at the same time within navigable distances is pathetically low. We've been around for 100 000 years... that's fuck all. How long are we going to be around? Another hundred? Maybe a million, but it doesn't really matter. As far as the universe is concerned, our existence is a tiny tiny window, and I doubt any other life forms can exist simultaneously. Maybe they can in an infinitely huge universe, but they'd be so far away their presence would be useless and have no effect on us. I say we've never been contacted by aliens because the window of our existence is too narrow to allow for another species close enough to find us to exist.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1708233 -

just because the chance is pathetically low, doesn't mean there isn't a chance. and if there is a chance, in an infinite universe there are infinite chances for that almost-zero prbability to take place. and if there are infinite chances, then it will have hapened. The time frame is not relevant. There should be a version of us out there living a minute behind, 2 hours ahead, 50,000,000 years ago..

but you're right, they are so far away it doesn't even matter. still an interesting thought..

I don't even necessarily believe I'm right- following logic it seems it should be true, but in reality who knows?


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708289 -

Quote:
you know what I mean though? if it is infinite, then the probability of there being someone out there who is genetically identical and is living the exact same life should = 1. not only that, there should be an ifinite number of people somewhere out there who are genetically identical.


Yeah, I know what you mean. But in such a case, of all the different variations of the worlds that contain instances of Rob_K that are indistinguishable from each other, what makes you think you are conscious of only one of them? Your consciousness of being yourself might be equally distributed over all of these instances, there's no way anyone could tell as long as they are all equal...

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1708316 -

Hey Dogo - this is for you...

Quote:
Time is so hugely vast that the odds of two intelligent species existing at the same time within navigable distances is pathetically low. We've been around for 100 000 years... that's fuck all. How long are we going to be around? Another hundred? Maybe a million, but it doesn't really matter. As far as the universe is concerned, our existence is a tiny tiny window, and I doubt any other life forms can exist simultaneously. Maybe they can in an infinitely huge universe, but they'd be so far away their presence would be useless and have no effect on us.


The Universe is so infinetly vast that the odds of two intelligent species existing during the same time-frame is probably almost a CONSTANT, if not more than two species. The distance thing is a good point, but in something so unmeasureable I feel you've gone a little close-minded on your post. Our existance is, you're right; a tiny tiny window, yet that doesn't mean that there aren't ancient civilizations in communication with each other billions of light years away.

Secondly, alien civilisations may not have an effect on *US* as peopl in the you and me sense, but once the blink of our existance is taken into consideration, who's to say some 14 tentacle squid kid sneezing isn't going to cause the destruction of our civilization 450 million years from now?

Lemme try to give you an example...

Spherical Bubble Boy living on Planet x24328 to the power of 12 walks his pet ghrezoidikrak one day and gets hit by a U.F.O. (when I use the term UFO, I mean that *we* as humans can't identify it...). Spherical Bubble Boy (SBB) doesn't make it, and SBB's parental unit decides that they (being both male and female) don't feel the need for more loss like this to occur, so in turn they create better brakes for the UFO's. One day on a quantum quartonianite haul from the closest class 2 solar system, one of these brakes (which were designed primarily for inter-atmospheric travel) fails, causing what can basically be described as a dump truck the size of jupiter to side swipe a planet 12 times the size of earth, knocking it out of it's orbit. In an INFINITE universe, ALL things are INFITELY possible, meaning that this is happening RIGHT now, which in turn could cause mass destruction in our solar system 450 million years from now. All we're trying to explain is that it's possible, almost probable that two intelligent species are existing RIGHT NOW on different planets somewhere out there.

Once again I quote,

Quote:
As far as the universe is concerned, our existence is a tiny tiny window, and I doubt any other life forms can exist simultaneously.


Quote:
we've been here for a blink of an eye.


Your statement displays closed minded contradicting points. Not only do you state that we've been here the 'blink of an eye', which I agree with, but then you go (quoted in reverse) to say that you doubt any other life forms can exist simultaneously, as if we as human beings are the be all end all of intelligent races, which I find infinitely amusing considering we've only been here for the 'blink of an eye'.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1709061 -

Quote:
Rhizoid said:

what makes you think you are conscious of only one of them? Your consciousness of being yourself might be equally distributed over all of these instances, there's no way anyone could tell as long as they are all equal...



I have to disagree with this.. the way people could tell is the fact that we co-exist within the same dimension, albeit billions of light years apart. I mean, there could be another rob k out there, but he does physically exist in the same space- we could meet if interstellar travel were possible. I don't see how consciences could be linked.


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1710902 -

Think of it this way: imagine a universe that repeats our region of space exactly forever and ever. Whatever I do, it is simultaneously replicated by an infinite number of copies of me. In such a case I think it's more reasonable to identify "me" with the entire replicated pattern, rather than with just one particular instance of it.

Now back to the original version of the infinite universe, where the variations are random instead of repeated copies. There should be an infinite number of copies of our patch of the universe (everything within the Hubble radius). They will begin to differentiate from each other as the Hubble radius expands and more distant light from the past reaches each copy of the Earth, but even as they differentiate there will still be an infinite number of copies of each differentiated instance, etc. No matter how long you play the game, there will always be an infinite number of exact copies left that are just like our visible universe. So we're still talking instances of a pattern, even if the pattern is much more complicated than in the first case.

Infinity is a truly weird concept. :oogle: 

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1710934 -

Weird is right.. I agree with your last post, there should in theory be an infine number of these diverging universes.. the other weird thing to think is that there are an ifinite number of outcomes of the big bang- some universes will be totally different from ours. And for each of these universes, there would be like you say an infinite number of repetitions and divergences.

However.. there is this niggle in the back of my mind saying no matter how far you go, you'll never find one exactly the same. Its like ice crystals- they are all unique. I'm going to use the phrase chaos theory, though I have no idea of exactly what this is about. While statistical formula tells us that [infinity * x] where "x" is the probability that there is someone out there genetically identical to me, it does feel like everything is just too chaotic and random. I'm playing devils advocate here, but it is one of those arguments where my brain keeps disagreeing with its self. I guess some things are just too strange to comprehend..


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

Edited by Rob_K (07/14/03 04:34 AM)

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rob_K]
    #1713359 -

Hey, I thought I was the devil's advocate here! :smile:

"They are all unique" is true only as long as "all" does not include an infinite set of ice crystals. There may be specimens that are unique, but there must be infinitely many copies of at least one of the ice crystals.

Of course if the crystals can be of any size, then there's a way to avoid duplication: just let each crystal contain a unique number of molecules. This works only as long as we ignore gravitation, because beyond a certain size an ice crystal will collapse into a neutron star, destroying the crystal structure...

But the principle might work for expanding universe bubbles, carefully arranged to have various sizes, with only a finite number of universes of each size.
   

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1713409 -

The universe is not infinite. Maybe the entire collection of EVERYTHING that the universe is comprised of is infinite. But I really dont think the universe itself is infinite...perhaps infinitely expanding but still retains an unconstant finite length.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: psyka]
    #1713511 -

what I mean psyka is that the collection of starts and planets that make up our universe will obviously come to an end somewhere, but if you keep going, you will eventually get to a place where there are no stars, no planets, no nothing. You'd be in a dark void, probably of temerature absolute zero. And once you reach this void, maybe if you keep going long enough (I'm talking billions to the power billions of light years) you might eventually find another collection of stars and planets, where another big bang has occured.

There's no way space can be finite, becasue where's the edge?


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #11001728 -

Murex said:
Our star is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.

I can se your point, it is somewhat valid. It really is the only thing we can base other systems on. As for having 4 planets capabable of life in our system; I just don't know about that. Besides Mars and Earth, what would be the other 2? 


Even if the universe is not infinite, it is quite large. The chances of other life as advanced and quick to advance as us is very likely.


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #11013709 -

Dogomush said:
And even if this planet did produce an intelligent being capable of solving puzzles ten times faster than humans, evolution likely wouldn't have complimented its intellect with tool-using hands or the urge to fly into space. We and our concept of vehicular space travel rose out of unique and no longer existing conditions somewhere in east Africa, and we aren't likely to find anything similar on other planets.

Thoughts?


Now lets think of the reason WHY they wanted to travel into space..

At night, when they stars came out, they'd ponder what they were. They'd see the moon, and after a while they'd notice that some of the bright dots are moving.

More complex civilizations took it further.

I'm sure, if there was another planet similar to Earth in another galaxy, lets say, the intelligent organism that takes rise there surely will see the stars at night. What questions do you think it would as itself?

I don't see how you can honestly look at the vastness of the Universe and not know that there's a rather large chance of life being out there. We're just one star of.. How many?

70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 That's what I'm getting, if not millions more.

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Lateralus_]
    #11014051 -

Someone had a thread a little back saying something along the lines of -Chances of life emerging in the universe, 100%, since we are here- Which i find to be an incredibly intelligent sentence. So there has to be a good chance that in this hugely vast universe there has been something similar. especially when you look at the massive diversity of life on this planet over its existence.
Our planet having all of these different species of life, i feel, is alone enough evidence to say that there is other life out in the universe.
I can see how the life on our planet wouldn't make a difference in the arguement if we had maybe ourselves, like two species of deer, 2-3 types of veggies,etc. and we were all the same color, eye shade, structuraly similar,etc. but the diversity is just WAY too great for me.


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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