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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2
    #1084720 - 11/25/02 04:50 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Ok, if you didn't follow the original thread it's out there (unlike the aliens), so check it out. It argues that aliens haven't visited earth because the odds of an intelligent, extroverted, space-faring creature existing in the same tiny window of time as we are and close enough to visit are too slim. The discussion ended up largely being an argument of whether or not the universe is infinite. Now for round 2, let's see where this ends up.

I think that the odds of a life-sustaining planet producing intelligent, potential space-travelling life are slim enough that we can be sure there are no civilizations within a distance any life form would care to cross. First, intelligence isn't inevitable in evolution. A planet's biosphere could grow and change and die and regrow for infinity without producing a creature with a brain larger than a walnut or any brain at all. And even if this planet did produce an intelligent being capable of solving puzzles ten times faster than humans, evolution likely wouldn't have complimented its intellect with tool-using hands or the urge to fly into space. We and our concept of vehicular space travel rose out of unique and no longer existing conditions somewhere in east Africa, and we aren't likely to find anything similar on other planets.

Thoughts?


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Anonymous

Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1084756 - 11/25/02 05:12 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I followed the other thread.

As far as intelligent life existing in the universe we have little to no evidence that we are not alone.

I think we are alone.  We need to deal with it.

This is not to say that I think aliens are not real though.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Best of luck on the new thread. :smile:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: ]
    #1084762 - 11/25/02 05:14 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I think we are alone

Didn't you once say that you were "contacted"?


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Anonymous

Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Revelation]
    #1084767 - 11/25/02 05:16 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Yes I did. You have a good memory. I was contacted by aliens. This is why I mentioned them in the previous post.

I do not think they live on another planet. In fact, I do not think they live in our dimension only.



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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: ]
    #1084907 - 11/25/02 06:14 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I was contacted by aliens

Hey, do you want to relate this story and your theories, or have you already in another thread and if so can you link me to it?


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1085027 - 11/25/02 07:12 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Many trip reports of people who smoke DMT say they have encountered aliens or 'other beings'.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1085126 - 11/25/02 07:40 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Somewhat related to the anthropic principle is the idea that, if we know nothing of other planets and star systems, we can at least say that our own is more likely to be close to 'average' than it is to be a freakish anomaly.

And however unlikely intelligent life is, I think the *most* unlikely scenario is that we are totally unique. That out of however many trillion planets in the universe, there is exactly one where it developed. A handful, a few hundred, that's still rare, but it's not an -infinite- rarity.

Our star is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.

even if this planet did produce an intelligent being capable of solving puzzles ten times faster than humans, evolution likely wouldn't have complimented its intellect with tool-using hands or the urge to fly into space.
That I disagree with. We were able to evolve a puzzle-solving brain -because- we had tool-using hands. It's the relationship between form and function. There is no reason for a sea anenome to understand general relativity. And the urge to fly into space is part of our biological desire to expand and conquer; any species that outcompeted its way to the top of the food chain would probably have the same drives.

I also believe that any other intelligent life is too far away/ already dead / not evolved yet / not paying attention/ or whatever, that we are never going to communicate with or be visited by them. But you can't take that and say "so there's no such thing."



Edited by Xibalba (11/25/02 07:42 PM)


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085137 - 11/25/02 07:46 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Our star is a typical yellow star in the middle of its life with similar chemical comosition to other stars- we're at a totally uninteresting position in the galaxy, and the fact that our solar system has 4 terrestrial planets suggests that once you've got a sun, an Earth isn't too hard to come by.

I can se your point, it is somewhat valid. It really is the only thing we can base other systems on. As for having 4 planets capabable of life in our system; I just don't know about that. Besides Mars and Earth, what would be the other 2?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1085196 - 11/25/02 08:11 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Europa could have housed life @ some point. It might even now, it has (semi) reasonable temperatures and h2o.

But we're still thinking of life by earth standards. Look at the insane variety of life on this planet, I don't think I could imagine what organisms would have been like on Mars or Europa. What would life be like in a binary system? What would life be like if it were silicon based? Why does life _necessarily_ need water? If life is just a self-replicating organism (some will argue this,) why do we require anything except a steady creation of new molecules? There is so much that could exist outside the parameters of what we call life.


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085207 - 11/25/02 08:19 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

We were able to evolve a puzzle-solving brain -because- we had tool-using hands. It's the relationship between form and function. There is no reason for a sea anenome to understand general relativity. And the urge to fly into space is part of our biological desire to expand and conquer; any species that outcompeted its way to the top of the food chain would probably have the same drives.

You may be right about the problem solving and hand thing, but I'm not sure. What kinds of puzzles can dolphins solve? There's talk of their being able to assess situations and come up with clever plans to solve situations involving predators or prey. I think the urge to fly into space has something to do with our specie's nomadic lifestyle. If we were migratory, would we want to fly into space? It's possible we wouldn't have the same attitude if we weren't nomads by nature.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1085260 - 11/25/02 08:38 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Mars, Earth, Europa and what?  :confused:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleXibalba
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Posts: 2,114
Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Murex]
    #1085384 - 11/25/02 09:26 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I meant Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. They're 'earthlike' in that they are small, close to the sun, and made of rock, as opposed to far away, huge, and gaseous.
Mercury and Venus are way too hot for life, Mars is too cold, though both Venus and Mars may have been better off in the past. If most systems with planets have more than one small, rocky planet close to the sun, at a similar range of distances, the chances of one being in the right place (for liquid water) is increased.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Xibalba]
    #1085477 - 11/25/02 10:02 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

If there are bacteria living in the ice-covered lakes of antarctica then there could probably be some kind of life on mars.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086110 - 11/26/02 12:57 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

But most likely not intelligent life.  :tongue: 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason 2 [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086799 - 11/26/02 06:04 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

To say we are the only life in the universe is just ignorant in my opinion. Intelligent life, now that all depends on what you consider intelligent as some of you have brought up.....but I'd still have to say that even by our standards of intelligence there is most likely something out there. Now whether or not we have or ever will come into contact with this life, intelligent or not is a completely different argument. I bet somewhere in the universe there is are a bunch of mushrooms sitting around looking up at the stars and debating the existence of life out there. Whether or not the universe has an end or not, its still bigger then our minds can even comprehend, which means the possibilities are infinite.


--------------------
Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086840 - 11/26/02 07:11 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Hmm this may come as a shock to some of you but I have been "contacted" as well.
For years now. I can't deny the existance as I know it first hand.
[insert sarcastic remark here]


Edited by Shroomism (11/26/02 07:12 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Dogomush]
    #1086848 - 11/26/02 07:19 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I will just say, that we are not as unique as we think we are, and human is one of the more common races in the universe.


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OfflineLeviathon
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1087502 - 11/26/02 01:40 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I think there was life, or something like it, on mars at one point. This site I found to be very thought provoking. Check it out.


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You can not recieve with hands already full.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Shroomism]
    #1087603 - 11/26/02 02:21 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Care to elaborate, Shroomism?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: There isn't intelligent life out there reason [Re: Strumpling]
    #1087630 - 11/26/02 02:37 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Well, there are the Klingons, the Vulcans, The Romulans, The Borg, the...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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