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Anonymous

Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1601294 - 06/02/03 12:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

If you have evidence the entire class failed present it. I am in the class and the last time I got my report card I was on the honor roll.

I am striving to learn and have peace. Others may do as they are so inclined as long as they don't go out of their way to disturb the peace of others because they don't have any.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1601306 - 06/02/03 12:12 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for seeing how far a tangent we can get from the topic...

Others may do as they are so inclined as long as they don't go out of their way to disturb the peace of others because they don't have any

because they don't have any

because they don't have any

because they don't have any


Is that NOT a judgement that you just preached about?

Did Jesus upset the moneychangers in the temple because he had no inner peace or maybe because the moneychangers needed to be woken up to erroneous thinking and acting?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1601332 - 06/02/03 12:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Ahem, you aren't Jesus if that is what you are referring to.

Nope, that isn't a judgment call. What I am saying if that a person doesn't have peace they shouldn't go around attempting to destroy the peace that others have because their life is miserable. Is there any other way to see it? Or are you suggesting that those who have no peace should go around provoking others?

The topic is paranormal experiences. I have passing grades.

I suppose it is back to "if I haven't had the experience then it can't possibly be real". I think it is better to say that if I haven't had the experience either (a) there is something wrong with me or (b) there is something wrong with the experience. That is the way of the True Skeptic.

The only thing worse than a unused mind is one that is completely shut.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1601364 - 06/02/03 12:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Ahem, you aren't Jesus if that is what you are referring to.
Nice display of illogic.

What I am saying if that a person doesn't have peace they shouldn't go around attempting to destroy the peace that others have because their life is miserable.
But it their life is full of peace and they are happy, then they can destroy other's peace at will like Jesus did.

Of course you overlook the fact that inner peace CANNOT be disrupted by another in the first place.

I suppose it is back to...
I know how tedious it is to stay on track.

"if I haven't had the experience then it can't possibly be real".
No need to incorrectly paraphrase me to make your point.

The only thing worse than a unused mind is one that is completely shut. 
There is no such thing as an unused mind nor one completely open nor completely shut. You very well know the dangers to all-or-nothing declarations.

Glad you are back in the trenches with sword in hand! :smile:


 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/02/03 12:39 PM)

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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1601384 - 06/02/03 12:37 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Before i prove to you that it exists, first PROVE to me that it doesn't exist!


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Anonymous

Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1601486 - 06/02/03 01:10 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Well I don't know about being "back in the trenches" but I have missed posting.  Moderating is such a drag. :frown:

Nice display of illogic.

Not at all, under the circumstances I found it to be quite logical.

But it their life is full of peace and they are happy, then they can destroy other's peace at will like Jesus did.

I didn't say that. 

Of course you overlook the fact that inner peace CANNOT be disrupted by another in the first place.

That isn't true either and you know it.  While we are responsible to a high degree to sustain our own peace none of us or most of us are unable to sustain it when certain circumstances enter our lives.  The death or loss of a loved one can destroy peace in a person's life no matter how advanced they may be.

I know how tedious it is to stay on track.

I'm quite on track Governor, how about you? :wink:

There is no such thing as an unused mind nor one completely open nor completely shut. You very well knwo the dangers to all-or-nothing declarations.

Quibbling over semantics is always a nice dodge.

Let's try to move this back to the topic at hand.

When I practice shamanism I sometimes learn Truths that are helpful to me in my daily life.  They are internal Truths which are brought to my consciousness for me to use or discard.  When I use them the quality of my life becomes better.  Others may use mushrooms or cacti and remain in a state of ignorance with lives that are in shambles.  That really has nothing to do with the efficaciousness of the entheogens in producing peace or internal Truths.
 

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1601495 - 06/02/03 01:12 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Moderating is such a drag.

I always suspected you had a thing for dressing in women's clothes...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1601515 - 06/02/03 01:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Others may use mushrooms or cacti and remain in a state of ignorance with lives that are in shambles. That really has nothing to do with the efficaciousness of the entheogens in producing peace or internal Truths.

If person A gets results from an entheogen and person B doesn't; how can you state that the entheogen was efficacious or even integral to the learning of a Truth?

The '60's Peace Movement died out because LSD did NOT produce Truths, but only the temporary illusion thereof.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1601835 - 06/02/03 03:18 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

If student A gets results from Mrs. Smith the English teacher and student B doesn't, does that say more about the teacher or the students?

As there are as many ways to use a book likewise there are many ways to use the entheogens. Some use drugs as an escape from a reality they find too harsh and others use a book to shore up a table leg that is too short. In the first case the user learns very little from the entheogen and in the second case the owner of the book learned nothing from it.

Don't blame the book or the entheogen for the lack of teaching thereof.

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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Phluck]
    #1602019 - 06/02/03 04:20 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

" "Interesting thing is though, I have noticed the occurence of synchronous events even before the very first alcoholic drink I ever had."

The human mind is a pattern recognition device. We often find congruencies and patterns where there are none, and we apply strange meaning to meaningless events. Sometimes there are coincidences, and sometimes we create them in our minds, but it would be foolish to just to the conclusion that they were put there by spirits meaning to communicate with us. "
------------------------------

I'll accept what you just said because you don't understand what I was really saying... perhaps it was my fault for not saying it right... I appologize, english, although I have a firm grip on it, is not my first language.

Let me define what I do not call synchronicity.... a coincidence. So let's define coincidence... I would be inclined to say, that a coincidence is something that happens that you perceive as being "out of the ordinary", yet at the same time, you can't establish a link to it. In that case, it becomes meaningless as you put it. I agree.

It would be like going to a french festival, not knowing french, while it was nearing lunch time... and all of a sudden, you see a McDonald's sign. What a coincidence, it was lunch time .. and McD'd happens to be your favorite !!! ... Did that help you with understanding french? Nope..

That is a coincidence... it has no apparent link.


I know this. So, as a result, I have developed a rule to differentiate. I call it: The Three Rule.. Cause good things come in threes... Anyways, I put an occurance into the category of synchronicity much more strongly if it happens in multiple blows rather than a single occurance.

Now, many times, it has happened, that the three rule was exceeded. I give you my word on that. When that happens, I take it more seriously.

I'll illustrate... I have made several rules which I use in the observation/ investigation of what I call, Virtual Intelligence. The rules I have made, I have cataloged, and use them to illustrate perceived interaction of events.

Just the other day, I swear this is a true story, five seperate events occured within the span of five minutes [ I think it was a smaller span, but I'll overestimate ]. The result of the interaction was astonishing !!! The rules have been followed ! I would have to say.. to a "T" [ I hope you understand that to a "T" means exactly ! ]... In this process, my first AND last name were spelled out ! And it pointed in a direction as well..

I call that a synchronicity ! An example of a virtual INTELLIGENCE ! And YES ! I am VERY inclined to say that !

The statistical numbers relating to that event would appear significant [ although, as Swami said.. after the event it is 1/1 ] .

I have only two possibilities to explain what I mean by that definition of synchronicity. 1.. There is something intelligent out there [ spirit or whatever ] ... 2 .. I did it.

Since I don't have a feeling of 100 % control, I am more inclined to put point 2 on the back burner at this time.

"IT" would appear, that it posesses a capacity of mind interaction. I assure you, that I am seriously intrigued by what unfolds before my eyes.



The human mind understands patterns... I agree with you. And it is exactly THAT which is being expressed and presented: VIA Patterns. How else could my primitive mind understand what is being said? IT is "speaking" the language in an intelligent manner.



--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


Edited by Deiymiyan (06/02/03 06:16 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1602034 - 06/02/03 04:26 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

If student A gets results from Mrs. Smith the English teacher and student B doesn't, does that say more about the teacher or the students?
Insufficient data. You know that I am not prone to jumping to conclusions.

there are many ways to use the entheogens
Your book & table analogy is not relevant. One reads the book, the other uses it as a structural support. Everyone that uses entheogens, such as cactus and mushrooms, ingests them in a similar manner.

Webster

efficacy: the power to affect a desired result.


If the desired result is not achieved then the entheogen cannot be considered efficacious.

Don't blame the book or the entheogen for the lack of teaching thereof.
OK, I will blame the 5,000,000 hippies who failed to build a more enlightened society rather than the "chemical teacher".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1602214 - 06/02/03 05:28 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If student A gets results from Mrs. Smith the English teacher and student B doesn't, does that say more about the teacher or the students?
Insufficient data. You know that I am not prone to jumping to conclusions.

there are many ways to use the entheogens
Your book & table analogy is not relevant. One reads the book, the other uses it as a structural support. Everyone that uses entheogens, such as cactus and mushrooms, ingests them in a similar manner.

Webster

efficacy: the power to affect a desired result.


If the desired result is not achieved then the entheogen cannot be considered efficacious.

Don't blame the book or the entheogen for the lack of teaching thereof.
OK, I will blame the 5,000,000 hippies who failed to build a more enlightened society rather than the "chemical teacher". 




Hey Swam, the example I gave you was parallel to yours in every detail.  So don't tell me you don't "jump to conclusions".

Your book & table analogy is not relevant. One reads the book, the other uses it as a structural support. Everyone that uses entheogens, such as cactus and mushrooms, ingests them in a similar manner.

You are picking at nits.  So merely change the analogy to make it fit.  Student A reads an English text under the tutelage of Mrs. Smith the English teacher.  He learns a lot and later becomes a famous author.  Student B also reads the English text under the tutelage of Mrs. Smith the English teacher, and flunks out of school and becomes a garage mechanic's helper.

So you want to blame the book?  Or the Teacher?

Whoever said that hippies were capable of spiritual enlightenment?

Are you saying that if the mushroom or other entheogen isn't a "magic pill" that instantly transforms everyone who takes it into a spiritual guru then it isn't any tool at all?

Has it ever occurred to you that you need a good teacher and a good student in order to produce the effect you are looking for?

Or are you the bad student who blames the Teacher for not being able to learn the lesson? :wink: 

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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1602320 - 06/02/03 06:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

"Don't blame the book or the entheogen for the lack of teaching thereof.
OK, I will blame the 5,000,000 hippies who failed to build a more enlightened society rather than the "chemical teacher". "
--------------------------

I think it's time for comic relief.... Sooooo... get out yer Can-O-Laughs......


You can lead a horse to water, but .......



--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


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InvisiblePhalanxx
Stranger
Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Europe
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1602398 - 06/02/03 06:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Swami,
I take it that you don't believe in paranormal events. Fair enough. You don't seem to believe in spiritual insights, or their usefulness if they exist. You don't seem to believe in the usefulness of entheogens for spiritual development. You seem either determined to disprove paranormal events, or determined to find proof.

Do you eat mushrooms yourself? If you do, why? What are your own spiritual beliefs? Do you have any? Are you a nihilist? Are you James Randi? You seem either keen to find some spirituality, or keen to insult the spirituality of others.

You will not find proof for paranormal activity because you are a chronic skeptic. I'm sure you will flame my ass with your cutting logic. I don't care. I have my own spirituality. I gained it by giving up the kind of attitude that you have, and being open-minded (not gullible).

Edited by Leprachaun (06/02/03 06:46 PM)

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: ]
    #1602544 - 06/02/03 07:21 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)


The Mega Mr.M versus Super Swami - Now playing.

*munches on popcorn with eyes wide open*  :ooo:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Murex]
    #1602681 - 06/02/03 07:59 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

This thread is AWSOME !
where do they make people like the ones here at the Shroomery ?
all people talk about at work is banal small talk...
I am Jack's Inflated Ego :grin:
Seriously though, this place is wonderful... thanks to everyone
for makin it happen 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Swami]
    #1603222 - 06/02/03 10:53 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

OK, I will blame the 5,000,000 hippies who failed to build a more enlightened society rather than the "chemical teacher".

who says they failed?

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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1603239 - 06/02/03 10:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

:laugh: !


--------------------
Namaste.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: Phalanxx]
    #1603517 - 06/03/03 01:39 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

...or keen to insult the spirituality of others
What insult? I never mean harm to anyone. Destroying a faulty idea is hardly harm to a person.

You will not find proof for paranormal activity because you are a chronic
skeptic.

Her is another who comes to conclusion about me while knowing NOTHING of what I have or have not done, lived or researched. I will not find proof simply because there isn't any, not because of my persona nor history.

I'm sure you will flame my ass with your cutting logic.
I flame no person on here. Believe it or not, I care for others here and do not try to make anyone feel small. I merely want someone to admit they were mistaken or to demonstrate their advanced knowledge and technique. Yet, I get neither. What I do get is personal attack or psychoanalysis or a lame excuse about why their pet power (which they previously claimed to be repeatable) can no longer be repeatable in the presence of a non-gullible audience.

Questioning begets anger. Now why is that?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Testing your Paranormal Hypothesis [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1603523 - 06/03/03 01:46 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

who says they failed?

Geez, let me think here. Today we have a more addicted (read obese, TV watching, smoking, alcoholic) society than has ever existed; fully backing a Warlord (Bush) in rationalized violence that absolutely would not have been tolerated by your peace-loving, back-to-the-land, acid-taking hippie. Alas, the dream of love and cooperation died in a quiet, marijuana-filled dream. Very sad.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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