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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor?
    #3935740 - 03/18/05 02:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I've been on hiatus from the Shroomery and S&P, but I feel like plunging back in today.

I don't normally claim to believe in God, because of the unfortunate connotations, but I do believe in God. However, I view God as a metaphor, the same way we talk about Mother Nature. Nobody really believes there is an intelligent, decision-making entity called Mother Nature, but we still say things like, "Well, Mother Nature is pissed at us today." I think God is the same.

I find almost every reference to God works (often better) as a metaphor, including scripture. Becoming closer to God is a metaphor for approaching a total meditative state.

Now, to get a tad controversial:

I believe Jesus understood that God was originally intended as metaphor, but his followers didn't understand this. I've got a lot more thoughts on this idea, but first, what do you all think about this?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3935886 - 03/18/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

perhaps part of your brain thinks the entire part is just a metaphor as well?

Are you suggesting God is a state of mind?

Or are you suggesting that God is the Universe, how Mother Nature is Earth?


I want to get a clearer picture of what you mean by metaphor before responding.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3936365 - 03/18/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

GOD needs to have the anthropomorphizations stripped away. When they are gone, a completely incomprehensible Reality will remain. One thing that I am certain of is, and I'll use the term from Transcendental Meditation - "Creative Intelligence." The exquisite complexity of life in all its forms, with all of its interrelated systems; the human being alone - self-repairing, reproducing, self-aware, creative, feeling, emoting, thinking, wishing, inventing, building, sculpting, painting, playing, imagining, loving, destroying, creating, transcending, praying can only be the manifestation of "Creative Intelligence." We are all Eternal Ideas in the [Platonic] Mind of GOD. These are why we are created "in the image and likeness" of GOD.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleFreeker
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3936402 - 03/18/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If God was truly reality, wouldn't "the afterlife" be useless, considering got is not an entity or being.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: Freeker]
    #3936421 - 03/18/05 05:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If God was truly reality, wouldn't "the afterlife" be useless, considering got is not an entity or being.




I don't understand why it should be. I don't see how the existence of an afterlife would be affected by the existince or non-existence of an intelligent god.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3936688 - 03/18/05 07:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CyberChump said:
I've been on hiatus from the Shroomery and S&P, but I feel like plunging back in today.
.
I don't normally claim to believe in God, because of the unfortunate connotations, but I do believe in God.  However, I view God as a metaphor, the same way we talk about Mother Nature. 
.
I believe Jesus understood that God was originally intended as metaphor, but his followers didn't understand this.  I've got a lot more thoughts on this idea, but first, what do you all think about this?



.
Why your return today of ALL days....?  (just curious, I am a cat.... :wink: )
.
What are the "unfortunate connotations" of believing in GOD that you speak of....?
.
How, or in what way do you believe Jesus was serving out his actions for a Metaphor...? 
.
Do you Believe that something to Believe and have Faith in is to be considered a metaphor....?
.
I believe what we see and conditioned ourselves to perceive to be real is a metaphor....  But the feelings we individually express out of our own personally expressive personallities to be the only thing to be TRULY REAL....  As in this case, even our actions would be a metaphor....
.
How would you claim(as an implication of fact) that Jesus's followers did not Understand what Jesus was doing his teaching for...?  How did you come about this knowledge....?
.
.
.
Paul himself was VERY driven for many reasons to spread the words and teachings of Jesus (I think he started the Christianity Crusade, did he not...?)  I am pretty sure such people like this had a full "understanding" of something "greater"(GOD) to serve for the good, and betterment of mankind....    (and Paul is the only one I actually know about due to my ignorance of the Bible, there might actually be more....)
.
.
.
Perhaps, but SURELY NOT stated as fact, Mother Nature would be that of EVIL....(?)    Because afterall, "HELL hath no FURY like a WOMEN SCORNED"....  The violence and POWER of a storm, or any other destructive "natural event" is always attributed to "Mother Nature", as well as all the rest of those things that hurt people thru the negative "nature" of the "natural events" of this planet....  The effects are always NEGATIVE, and UNFORGIVING towards LIFE itself....   
.
Perhaps, us people have really done a number on this planet for "her" to be pissed about - IF she was not accepting of our MANlike flawed actions(to which she should have forgiveness to our ignorant actions if she TRULY followed GOD's WISHES)....  Forestry, Littering, Pollution, Over-Harvesting;  the Soil, the Wildlife, and the Oceans, etc. etc....  Of senseless Gluttany by SOME, but not by all....  But the acts of "Mother Nature" are not focused on the ones that make the hurtful actions, she just "randomly" acts and hurts innocent people without disregard....  Almost like a terrorist of sorts, ya~ never know what is gonna~ happen next....
.
Of course, perhaps I am speaking in metaphors....  :heart:
.
Since you are asking for acceptance/validation to speak your ideas, look within yourself, and tell us what your TRUE intentions are, in you speaking your ideas to us....  I am making no assumptions, but I would like to know an honest answer....    :yesnod:
.
Either way, I would love you for YOU....  :heart:
BTW, your avitar is really COOL....!


WE....


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3939471 - 03/19/05 12:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What are the "unfortunate connotations" of believing in GOD that you speak of....?
.
How, or in what way do you believe Jesus was serving out his actions for a Metaphor...?
.
Do you Believe that something to Believe and have Faith in is to be considered a metaphor....?
.
I believe what we see and conditioned ourselves to perceive to be real is a metaphor.... But the feelings we individually express out of our own personally expressive personallities to be the only thing to be TRULY REAL.... As in this case, even our actions would be a metaphor....
.
How would you claim(as an implication of fact) that Jesus's followers did not Understand what Jesus was doing his teaching for...? How did you come about this knowledge....?





(CyberChump tries to force closed the can of worms he foolishly cracked)


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3939489 - 03/19/05 12:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

A metaphor; One thing conceived as representing another..

(reflection?)

yes.. ..everything is? :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleFreeker
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3939519 - 03/19/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The reason the afterlife (By afterlife I mean the popular religious terms, heaven/hell; though those may or may not be true) would be useless is because there would be no higher force to judge and place us in one of those 2 places.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: Freeker]
    #3939578 - 03/19/05 01:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Freeker said:
The reason the afterlife (By afterlife I mean the popular religious terms, heaven/hell; though those may or may not be true) would be useless is because there would be no higher force to judge and place us in one of those 2 places.




..but you.. :smile:

"have faith, in what you do.. "
-Unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #3950945 - 03/21/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CyberChump said:
(CyberChump tries to force closed the can of worms he foolishly cracked)



.
Naaaaaa, that cat is out catchin meeeeces....    Anything is possible, please do speak your mind....  :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Offlinenitroguy
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4235796 - 05/30/05 06:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I believe that if God told anyone living today to try to write about his greatness that none of us could possibly comprehend it and that all that would come out of us is a silly bunch of ... "Bible." Imagine expressing the actions of God in a words... if you can't explain the simple transformation you undergo under the influence of a mushroom then there is no way you could write truth about something as complicated as God. I think if you read the Bible you should realize that even if God himself dicated the text, it would still be the interpretation of one guy... God is someone you need to find for yourself; no written words could describe him/her or his/her actions without spitting out a stream of incomprehensible metaphors.


--------------------
...Weapons are meant for destruction,
and thus are avoided by the wise.
Only as a last resort
will a wise person use a deadly weapon.
If peace is her true objective
how can she rejoice in the victory of war?
Those who rejoice in victory
delight in the slaughter of humanity.
Those who resort to violence
will never bring peace to the world...

Lao-Tzu, "Tao Te Ching--31" trans. J.H. McDonald


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #4235866 - 05/30/05 07:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

""I believe Jesus understood that God was originally intended as metaphor, but his followers didn't understand this.""

Yes!!!
"The only way to God, is through me.." the bible claim that Jesus said..
what Jesus said, was that "the only way to God, is through 'self'..."

so much of the bible is lost in translations, and sadly the main purpose of it as well.. :wink:

PS: did you know "god created man and woman" is written without the and, in its language..  dude.. lost in translation i tell you, intentionally and not.. its so funny :smile:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (05/30/05 07:34 AM)


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: Gomp]
    #4236122 - 05/30/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i now sometimes actually read my bible, but with a concordinance so that i can see what the original Hebrew translation is.

question what you read everyday!

i think people pick and choose which way as to look at the bible... face value/metaphore

"become like children.." = born again spiritually,but in the same body.OR literally being incarnated yet again into another body...?

which fits your beliefs?

i agree with gomp. it say "i am the way the truth and the life! no one comes unto the father but by me."

I AM and YOU ARE the way.

i am god.


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4236285 - 05/30/05 12:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Translation is the problem. "I AM," the Hebrew 'Eheieh,' in that formula refers to Christ as LOGOS, not as "self," not as embodied ego in the form of Y'shua ben Miriam (Jesus, Son of Mary). Y'shua was referring to the Eternal Logos at the Source of His existence. The Logos is at the Source of our moment-to-moment existence as well, but few people live in the moment profoundly enough to experience that Truth (except for some under high doses of psychedelic, whose minds are aimed at GOD).

The further difficulty is whether Y'shua was different from the rest of us by (1) degree or (2) by species. The orthodox theological answer is #(2), that Y'shua is a different species of being than the rest of us. This puts Him on a 'too high' pedestal and there is no evidence that He thought of Himself as the Incarnation of GOD. That is not a Jewish idea, it is a Greek idea which was in all of their mythology.

It isn't about using the Bible to back up our current beliefs, whatever they might be. It is about historical inquiry into who wrote the books, at what point in history, and what was their agenda. The timeless, universal Wisdom needs to be separated from the culture-bound stuff, because, for example, I Know that 'forgiveness' is healing even as I write, but I know equally that long hair on a male is not a shameful thing, and neither is it right to stone a person to death.

BTW, you and I are not GOD.

Shalom.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #4236302 - 05/30/05 12:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CyberChump said:
I've been on hiatus from the Shroomery and S&P, but I feel like plunging back in today.

I don't normally claim to believe in God, because of the unfortunate connotations, but I do believe in God. However, I view God as a metaphor, the same way we talk about Mother Nature. Nobody really believes there is an intelligent, decision-making entity called Mother Nature, but we still say things like, "Well, Mother Nature is pissed at us today." I think God is the same.

I find almost every reference to God works (often better) as a metaphor, including scripture. Becoming closer to God is a metaphor for approaching a total meditative state.

Now, to get a tad controversial:

I believe Jesus understood that God was originally intended as metaphor, but his followers didn't understand this. I've got a lot more thoughts on this idea, but first, what do you all think about this?




I'm suggesting another possible explanation in my avatar


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #4236529 - 05/30/05 02:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The whole Bible is a bunch of metaphors put together by primitive people to try and understand the world around them.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: niteowl]
    #4236684 - 05/30/05 03:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The world 'within' them, as enacted without them.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDoom
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4237263 - 05/30/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

judeo-christian-muslim god. why does everyone always leave out that last bit? its the fastest growing division of the holy trinity.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor? [Re: Doom]
    #4238122 - 05/30/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I mentioned the Qu'ran in the 'Consciousness' thread, in my response to nitroguy, as a matter of fact since you're addressing "everyone" to me.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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