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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3620369 -

trendal said:
I don't think you can say that hatred of gays comes only from the Bible! There are many parts of the world who did not even know the Bible existed until recently, yet I don't think many (if any) of them had a very tolerant approach towards anything like homosexuality.

As you said: the Bible is just a book. Written by humans. Humans, like most upper forms of life, are naturally inclined to dislike the odd and extremely different (it's a survival mechanism). We didn't like gays, so God must not like gays, so the book says we mustn't like gays. :wink:


I agree. The Bible has little to do with it.
I mean Bible promotes "no sex before marriage" policy, yet I dare say
most christians have a way around that.
People don't like gays because of either pesonal disgust or
social learning at a young age, usually both. And the Bible is just
a way of making that hate "legal"

People chose what to listen to in the bible, and forget the stuff they don't like, or find an interpretation that supports their own beliefs.


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3620372 -

You missed the whole point of her post and only addressed the superficial aspects of it.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3620377 -

I believe I remember hearing that ancient Egypt had the first laws against homosexuality(or rather homosexual behavior, as the concept of homosexuality as an orientation is a rather recent one). The Greeks and Romans, on the other hand, incorporated such behavior into their culture for centuries with no problems(it was only after the Romans became Christian that their empire fell--coincidence?).

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: skystone]
    #3620410 -

skystone said:
People don't like gays because of either pesonal disgust or
social learning at a young age, usually both.


the personal disgust is learned, I would argue.

by the way, Paw Paw, where are you?? please come back so we can continue objective discussion of this aspect

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3620416 -

trendal said:
As you said: the Bible is just a book. Written by humans. Humans, like most upper forms of life, are naturally inclined to dislike the odd and extremely different (it's a survival mechanism). We didn't like gays, so God must not like gays, so the book says we mustn't like gays. :wink:


ha ha I like the order you put it in.

Research has shown that when you put radically different 3 year olds in a room together, they all get along. I also saw a show where this black hating family carried on about how proud they were to have raised their children to hate blacks. While on the stage, they had their kid in a back room with a black kid and it was video taped and they were playing and laughing together. The dads face turned red with anger. Burn on him.

This hate is like a chain passed on from generation to generation. I know I broke the chain of hate my dad raised me in, regarding raising my daughter, I'm still a work in progress,but I can't pin point why I was able to and some keep it going. How does one intervene to break the chain?

Whats the practical applicable global solution here? The Bible Thumpers won't let you do it through the public school system. It's a helpless place to be in other then taking care with your own children. Does raising awareness through talk help?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3620426 -

yeah, your dad must have planted the seed of non-hating in you when he raised you, even though he hated or whatever. how does that work? you could have had a dad who raised you in such a way that you'd still be a hater...

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3620722 -

No, if anything finding a conclusive link between homosexuality and some sort of genetic "defect" would be MUCH worse than saying homosexuality is a "choice".

I think that's an interesting point, but I disagree. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean it has to be a "defect". It's simply a trait.

Even if everyone were homosexual, we'd still reproduce, we certainly have the technology for sperm donors and test tube babies, so it wouldn't really be much of a problem.

There just wouldn't be any more accidental pregnancies. If anything, it would reduce the amount of stupid people reproducing, and increase, the amount of reproduction among the educated and well prepared.

It would be a leap forward for the evolution of intelligence.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3620731 -

by the way, Paw Paw, where are you?? please come back so we can continue objective discussion of this aspect

To coin an awkward phrase: "When the discussion gets intelligent, only the intelligent discuss."


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Phluck]
    #3620927 -

I don't believe that being gay is passed down through genes. Genes code for proteins, and unless these proteins have a distinct physiological effect that are related to hormonal activity, which could result in emergent sexual tendancies. I see this as a stretch because hormones can increase or decrease sex drive, but it has no effect on psychological preference of a male or female. Sex with a vagina or an anus, or the desire to eat a snatch or suck a cock are quite similiar when it comes down to human intimacy.

Our brain is extremely complex, but mainly because it produces a conscious and the ability to be self-aware and make decisions. This coupled with our primal urge to get down and dirty will lead towards the expression of sex that is intertwined with taboos, upbringing, and just "free-will".

That being said, I'm still not so sure that we are aware of these complex interactions between consciousness, environment, and hormones, and it could lead people to believe they don't have a choice and that they are fixed to being gay. It might be like a complicated mathematical formula that can't be comprehended, except for the end result which is = gay/straight/dog-loving tranny.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3621006 -

Zekebomb said:
yeah, your dad must have planted the seed of non-hating in you when he raised you, even though he hated or whatever. how does that work? you could have had a dad who raised you in such a way that you'd still be a hater...


If the spark of consciousness that helped me break it with my daughter had to come from a parent, it was my mom. As a matter of fact my two other siblings with children broke it too. She is a living saint, heart of gold, give the shirt off her back for anyone type. Maybe what is required to break it is that one of the two parents has to be the intervention.

Dads still a hater and mean. Every seed he planted into my mind and heart was bad and so here I am transmuting them ALL. Mom planted a lot of good ones.

What do we do when we see other children being raised to hate by both parents? If I see it in public places, you all know what a big mouth I have, I speak up, but many feel they don't have a right to interfere. I say fuck it when I see people who I don't think have a right to be parents. If their child for one moment can see another adult take a stand for love, acceptance and compassion, plant just one seed for them I'll do it.

Sure, sometimes you'll get told to mind your own bussiness, had a knife pulled on me once for interfering, but the way I see it, if my daughter has to share the future world with their children then it is my business.

Somewhere here had a sig that said, complaining is volunteering to be a part of the solution. I liked that. if we are going to gather here against hate, then we should be focusing on solutions to make this productive.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: looner2]
    #3621167 -

Well, we don't know exactly what causes homosexuality. It doesn't really seem to be something you can change though, as most people who try to change tend to revert back, or their heterosexual relationships seem forced.

What it really comes down to is; Does it matter? Who cares if some people would rather stick to their own sex? I can't see any reason why it would, and complaining amounts to nothing more than meaningless hatred.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Phluck]
    #3621308 -

Phluck said:
No, if anything finding a conclusive link between homosexuality and some sort of genetic "defect" would be MUCH worse than saying homosexuality is a "choice".

I think that's an interesting point, but I disagree. Just because it's genetic doesn't mean it has to be a "defect". It's simply a trait.


no no, you missed the sarcasm in the tone. er, you missed the tone entirely. well since this is on the internet there was no 'tone', but... point is, speaking strictly for me, we agree with you

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3621320 -

Oh. 'Cause a few years ago I read an article by a gay guy that made pretty much the same point as Trendal.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Phluck]
    #3621545 -

I remember discussing homosexuality a few years ago with a friend. He's pretty traditional in his values (which go unexamined) but I don't believe in telling my neighbor how he should live his life.

Evidently he got wind of this after talking with a mutual friend and just busts out with great conviction, "Being gay is a choice." After a pause to absorb this non sequitur I asked him, "Do you remember when you chose to be straight?" This simple question had the most astonishing effect on him! It seemed to flip all the energy back onto him like a magnet reversing polarity. He actually rocked back like my words had impacted him physically. He grabbed his skull with both hands and stared silently at the ground for what seemed like minutes.  :rotfl:

BTW,I think it's a mistake to goad Paw Paw into returning to this thread he started. He probably just threw that statement out to start a debate so he could update his own thinking about it. Hopefully he and everyone have learned something here.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: zorbman]
    #3621567 -

I think it's a mistake to goad Paw Paw into returning to this thread he started
hopefully he did learn something, but something tells me he didn't...maybe he felt outclassed. weird how some people are almost proud of the very beliefs they have which are most likely to offend other people

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3621621 -

Like this Christian website..

I wish I could say this is a joke, but sadly it is not. This church was on Nightline tonight. Please remember only love can conquer hate- do not act on the urge to attack these idiots!

http://www.godhatesfags.com/


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: zorbman]
    #3621692 -

"Only God's elect have the capability to believe"

and

"God has given [sodomites] up"

from that godhatesfags website.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3622531 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
You missed the whole point of her post and only addressed the superficial aspects of it.


:lol:

That's probably because I agreed with the rest of jiggy's post :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3622539 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
Research has shown that when you put radically different 3 year olds in a room together, they all get along. I also saw a show where this black hating family carried on about how proud they were to have raised their children to hate blacks. While on the stage, they had their kid in a back room with a black kid and it was video taped and they were playing and laughing together. The dads face turned red with anger. Burn on him.

This hate is like a chain passed on from generation to generation. I know I broke the chain of hate my dad raised me in, regarding raising my daughter, I'm still a work in progress,but I can't pin point why I was able to and some keep it going. How does one intervene to break the chain?

Whats the practical applicable global solution here? The Bible Thumpers won't let you do it through the public school system. It's a helpless place to be in other then taking care with your own children. Does raising awareness through talk help?


I saw a show once about a camp in Israel where they brought Israeli and Palestinian children to be with eachother. The children all came "thinking" that they should hate eachother, and many of them even said right away that it was because their parents had said they SHOULD hate eachother.

The camp was an astounding "success". The children all grew to like eachother and became friends.

At the end of the show, they did a follow-up from several years after the camp. Each and every kid once again hated the "other side". They all still remembered their time at the camp, the fun they had, and the friends they made. Yet they all stood firm in their hatred.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Whats logical about being gay? [Re: trendal]
    #3622633 -

Quote:
trendal said:
No, if anything finding a conclusive link between homosexuality and some sort of genetic "defect" would be MUCH worse than saying homosexuality is a "choice".

Because once people have a genetic "flaw" to blame homosexuality on...they will do so. Then they will segregate the "genetically inferior" homosexuals.

Could you imagine what will happen if they find homosexuality to be a "medically treatable disease"? Will gays be forced to take medication to "control their urges" in much the same way that we force "mentally ill" people to take medications? Will we start locking gays up in "hospitals" so we can "treat their condition"?




well, that was certainly the procedure when herr shicklegruber was fuhrer of the third reich, way back in the 1930s-40s in germany...

jews, gypsies, slavs, mentally deficient, mentally ill, homosexuals, communists, & other "undesirables" were routinely sterilized (or euthanized) in the name of eugenics...

gotta protect the purity of the master race, ur sumfin...

(a lot of ummmmm "interesting experiments" were perpetrated in the united states in the early 20th century in the name of eugenics, but it never "caught on" in the big way it did in germany...

(& "homosexuality" was listed as a "mental" disease or abberation in some of the earlier editions of the DSM shrink-book, i do believe...)

(hell, i heard that tim leary tried to "cure" colleague dick alpert of his homosexual condition using psychedelics... what a world, what a world...)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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