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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Racism, homophobia and homosexuality.
    #1127770 - 12/10/02 04:35 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

A teacher who teaches in a classroom of "mixed" ethnicity (what group of people isn't mixed, I know) demands that all kids with "Un-American" names must get used to the idea that they are American now and thus change their names (Jesus, Mika, Flora, etc.) to proper American names.

Is the teacher racist? She doesn't object to the children's skin color, just their "Un-American" names.

A boss tells an African American employee that she needs to start dressing more "American". Is the boss racist? He isn't firing her because she is black. Merely asking her to change her wardrobe into something he is more comfortable with, something more of his culture.

These are real stories of people whom I knew. I start out with the stories because, I feel, they demonstrated my point. I think the reason why people are homophobic and racist is because they hate/fear other cultures. I don't think it is the color of the skin or the sexual orientation that makes people hate other people, I think it is any difference that tries to "penetrate their" culture. A lot of racists I know, and probably you know, don't hate African American's who act like their culture. How many times do people complain about people of other cultures; hats, clothes, speech/terms, etc. Also, it has been my experience, and perhaps yours to, that homophobes don't just have a problem with gays, they generally have problems with everyone who clashes with their culture. In my opinion people don't get hung up on the actual color thing so much. They may identify the color with different cultures and then hate the color thing, but is isn't the skin color alone that makes them hate, IMO.

History is absolutely filled with people in vastly different circumstances who all go out and do the same thing, explore other regions with other peoples and what do they do? They immediately begin to tear down the native culture and bring in their culture, as dramatically as possible. Once the natives accepted their culture the contempt sunk dramatically, and in some cases the natives even went on to have high-ranking jobs and sometimes even political offices, once they accepted the culture. The pattern of finding other peoples and then destroying their culture to put in our culture is, in my opinion, undeniably consistent throughout all history.

Many of the people whom I have spoken to about this idea have rejected it initially and then later said that after they thought about it and saw it in action they agreed. Comment on the idea now, but if you disagree keep it in mind and think about it the next time you see a similar situation-taking place. You may still disagree, but just think about it.

What I am driving at is differences that don't hurt anybody, have no victims, are feared by human kind anyway. I suppose it's a fear of change. Our culture contains everything we have been comfortable with and when someone has a different culture, perhaps we may feel uncomfortable and even a little defensive, and sometimes aggressive. I don't know, I'm no psychologist.

What I am mostly driving at here is if you don't like an entire group of people, perhaps you should examine why. I am not and have never considered myself a homosexual but I feel that homosexuality is just yet another thing that our culture has yet to get comfortable with. Nothing more than that. No more immoral then the Blacks, Jews, etc. Culture is ever changing and some people don't adjust well, that's the way I see it. It is my contention that it matters not who you sleep with, and I think telling other grown people who they can and cannot sleep with or get married to is incredibly arrogant. Who gives you the right to tell others who to get married to? God? Well I don't think God did. Can you prove that he did? No more than I can prove it. So then we are both equal, we cancel each other out. Then live and let live. Besides, if Gays want to live their life in "sin", why not let them? If you believe it is evil, then be content with the idea they are going to hell. What do you care? God can take care of itself. In my opinion it's only the culture thing again. What, has homosexuality been linked to crime? How does it hurt you AT ALL?

Homosexuality hurts no one. To say it is unnatural is just not true, IMO. Homosexuality occurs in nature. To say it is an improper way to have sex implies that you know the proper way (a tad arrogant) and just by having "abnormal" sex you are immoral. Well excuse everyone who masturbates, gives or receives blowjobs, hand jobs, or just flat doesn't use the missionary position. That isn't natural, and apparently that is all it takes to get sent to hell, have "weird" sex. (Here is the tour of hell, over there is Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao and a guy who had weird sex...)

It is that whole fear of change thing again, in my opinion. Some people want to tell you how to live your life (no drugs, get a high paying job), who to get married to (no same sex marriages, no inter race marriages), what clothes to where ("inappropriate" dress), what to read (porno, or books with "bad ideas", which are often titled anything from "satanic" to "communist", whether or not they share anything in common with those beliefs), what music to listen to (censorship again), when to have sex (no sex before marriage), and even when to go to bed (after all the bible says that those who retire early, can get up early to do God's work, no joke!) to name a few. Once again there is this desire to make everyone conform to YOUR idea of culture.

Whatever culture you have, we share. Rejecting other culture is just denial, all cultures are inner mixed. The sooner people realize this, the happier we shall all be.

Who you have sex with is a non-factor in the goodness of a person, in my opinion. There are two many prying issues for me to try to control activity in other people's beds.

All my opinion, of course.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1127786 - 12/10/02 04:45 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Right away I noticed my mushroom rating went down. Exactly as I supposed it would.

Just a note.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineGlacius
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1127934 - 12/10/02 06:24 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly. People that are like that, are just insecure about they're sexuality, and insecure about themselves in general. You can bet the a homophobe is just in the closet, and he doesnt like the way he is, so he takes it out on other people. Racism is wrong, and I agree with the culture clash thing. People are scared of what they dont know. The unknown. If people would open up, and be open minded, we sure could go along a lot better. People are just scared of themselves, and insecure about themselves.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1128346 - 12/10/02 11:55 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Some of your examples aren't racist, but xenophobic.

I think homophobes are used to the idea that there are gay people. They just can't get over the idea that there's something horribly wrong with gays. Desperately afraid of being perceived as gay, or becoming gay. I'm not sure. This is what I posted about this earlier:

For some people, it really seems like a phobia. Some people get extremely freaked out when they're around gay people, they flip out if a gay guy hits on them. The same people might have no problem politely brushing off an unattractive girl, but they feel the need to get really angry, sometimes even violent when the would-be suitor is gay. I'm not so sure if this is a phobia of gay people, or a phobia of being perceived as gay by their peers. Maybe they believe that if they don't frighten away the gay guy, and act as straight as possible, they might be brainwashed into actually being gay. I don't know for sure how their actions can be explained, but there's definately some irrational fear there.



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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1128659 - 12/10/02 01:32 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

For some people, it really seems like a phobia. Some people get extremely freaked out when they're around gay people, they flip out if a gay guy hits on them.

Am not sure if I am homophobic, but am homo-pedophilo-phobic. I was an attractive, slender and muscular young man and was the object of countless predatory attacks from pre-teen to early twenties. That sort of experience certainly colors one's perception.

Three years ago, as a middle-aged (but still buffed) man, the aerobics instructor grabbed my cock in the sauna with no forewarning (no flowers or even dinner). He mistook my pleasant personality (this is real-life, not a message board to all you who are shocked) as some sort of a come-on. Now I have been in co-ed nudist saunas and have never seen this sort of TOTAL DISRESPECT between men and women occur. I would have clocked him, but he ran out at full speed when he saw my anger as I recoiled in disgust.

What is one to think? Now before you jump to conclusions, I had a best buddy for many years who was gay. We did all sorts of sports together. I had no problem because he either had no interest in me that way or respected my personal boundaries.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128695 - 12/10/02 01:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I was an attractive, slender and muscular young man and was the object of countless predatory attacks from pre-teen to early twenties. That sort of experience certainly colors one's perception.

I don't know that it does for certain but it may. I have had the same experiences as a young man.

I know this though. If that pervert would I have done that to me I would have knocked him unconscious.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128740 - 12/10/02 01:50 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Now I have been in co-ed nudist saunas and have never seen this sort of TOTAL DISRESPECT between men and women occur."

Gay culture is a little different than straight culture. Remember, it's two MEN who are dealing with each other in this case. If women used this kind of come on with a straight man, I'm sure the man would have no problem at all. There are men that use this kind of come on with women though, there's lots of them. Something like 1 in 5 women are raped at some point in their lifetimes.

I would definately be uncomfortable if a gay guy just grabbed my crotch. I would think it's a pretty disrespectful thing to do. Maybe it's fine in a gay bathhouse, but if you're not sure if the guy is gay, lay off. I have no problem with verbal come ons, but I would have to draw the line at sexual assault.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1128767 - 12/10/02 01:57 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, well this was at your local family fitness center, not a S.F. bathhouse...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128785 - 12/10/02 02:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't know you had an aggressive side, Mr Mushrooms. I had a similar experience to Swami's, but saw no reason to react angrily. I was taken aback though.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128801 - 12/10/02 02:08 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The difference probably is that you haven't had the experiences that Swami and I have.

Yes, I certainly have an aggressive side and there are several things that trigger it.

1. Self-Defense

2. Defense of one that I am responsible for.

3. If my soccer team is losing (just kidding)

I would immediately feel not only 'taken aback' I would feel violated. Violated as much as a womans might feel if I did that to her. I view such people as perverts no matter whose body they are grabbing, male or female.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128844 - 12/10/02 02:21 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

A guy grabbed my scrotum, and yes "violated" is probably a better way of describing what I felt than "taken aback". I didn't feel anger because I thought what he did was down to him - it was his problem, not mine. To be honest I pretty much went about my day as normal after that.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128852 - 12/10/02 02:25 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Well that explains it then. A scrotal grab is one magnitude less than a penile grab. How could you possibly compare one with the other?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128856 - 12/10/02 02:27 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

That's true. However this was less than a grab and more of a cup.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128857 - 12/10/02 02:28 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Next thing you know you will be downgrading it to a mere tickle...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128864 - 12/10/02 02:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Always with the one up man ship  :grin:.  No, this was a definate fondle .


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128866 - 12/10/02 02:33 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I'm waiting for someone to say "it's just skin, right?"


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128876 - 12/10/02 02:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe it didn't bother you too much because you have a gay gene or something and you just don't know about it. :wink:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128885 - 12/10/02 02:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Possibly. I've never been attracted to a guy though.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1129741 - 12/10/02 07:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

A Gay man acted inappropriately. That is one guy being an idiot. No one person speaks for an entire group of people.

I have known PLENTY of Gay guys, and girls, who I felt were assholes...but that just meant that they were assholes, not that ALL Gays are assholes.

If one straight Women grabbed your penis would you feel that Woman's behavior represented ALL Women, or just one?


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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InvisibleSwami
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Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1129861 - 12/10/02 08:06 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I never said anything about all. Did you just jump over the quote from my previous post?

What is one to think? Now before you jump to conclusions, I had a best buddy for many years who was gay. We did all sorts of sports together. I had no problem because he either had no interest in me that way or respected my personal boundaries.

Try to actually read what I said, not what you "think" I said!

If one straight Women grabbed your penis would you feel that Woman's behavior represented ALL Women, or just one?

And what might one think after a dozen incidents?

Neither am I a racist, but as white who has been the victim (please no psychoanalysis here) of 6 major crimes involving blacks, I will not be as trusting when I see an African-American (there is absolutely no intention of hurting or slandering any fellow black shroomerites here) of approaching me at night as if these things had never occurred. This is called learning and observation. Prejudice (pre-judging) can be necessary when it comes to possible danger.




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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
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Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1129868 - 12/10/02 08:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

well, i agreed with most of what you said (if not aall, i dont remember, lol), so i gave you a 5 star rating to balance out the other negative rating(s)


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1129972 - 12/10/02 08:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Try to actually read what I said, not what you "think" I said!

I did actually read what you said. I have heard that "some of my best friends have been Gay" thing before and I don't believe saying that is enough.

And what might one think after a dozen incidents?

Is it unreasonale to assume that there are countless Homosexuals, and isn't it logical to assume that a percentage of them are assholes??? It is my belief that the Gays who are "idiots" go more noticed than the Gay's who simply allow you to go about your day, without any penis grabbing.

I don't care if you are in a room of 100 Homosexuals and you have found 99 of them to be sex offenders, that doesn't give you the right to prejudge that 100th guy.

Prejudice (pre-judging) can be necessary when it comes to possible danger.

Yes, but have you ever been assaulted by White people? Like I said, there are assholes who are African American, but they are not assholes BECAUSE they are African American.

I don't believe there is a connection between the color of your skin, or your sexuality, and the decency of a person.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Edited by Shroomalicious (12/10/02 08:43 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1130004 - 12/10/02 08:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I did actually read what you said.
OK then, show me the line where I said anything about "ALL"...

I have heard that "some of my best friends have been Gay" thing before and I don't believe saying that is enough.
What do you mean it isn't enough? Enough what? You have your standards and I have mine. You have not lived my life, and yet (contrary to your entire point) you can judge how I SHOULD feel and act?

I don't care if you are in a room of 100 Homosexuals and you have found 99 of them to be sex offenders, that doesn't give you the right to prejudge that 100th guy.
That is like saying, "I don't care how many pit bulls you have been mauled by, don't judge the next one by your past experiences. Pet the cute little doggie without fear."

Like I said, there are assholes who are African American, but they are not assholes BECAUSE they are African American.
I don't know the causal link, but there are neighborhoods through which you will not walk late at night because of presuppositions (and probably accurate ones at that!)







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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1130011 - 12/10/02 08:57 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have nothing against homosexuals, except that they want everyone to think the way they do.


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OfflinePoogi
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1130019 - 12/10/02 09:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

That could be said about any race, religion, or sexual orientation, so it's pointless to state it.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1130058 - 12/10/02 09:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Just passing through. Take no notice.

[the sound of whistling is heard fading into the distance]


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1130129 - 12/10/02 09:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting point Mr. Mushrooms.  If you think about it, "It's just skin", so why do we get so angry?  Is it the way we've been conditioned, or is there more to it???  :shocked: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1130147 - 12/10/02 09:49 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously there is more to the issue.

Sex is part conditioning and part instinctual.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1130161 - 12/10/02 09:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting point Mr. Mushrooms. If you think about it, "It's just skin",

That type of statement has no meaning and is not a point at all. Why get excited over war, "It's just death"?

Almost ALL animals have a zone (I hate the use the word "space") through which others may not infringe without permission. It really doesn't matter whether it is intrinsic or learned; the fact is that it exists. And those who violate this taboo are aware that it exists. Why did my violater bolt from the sauna? He was gone before I even had a chance to shift from shock to anger. He ran because he knew he had crossed a social boundary and was likely to punished for his transgression.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1130202 - 12/10/02 10:06 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Why get excited over war, "It's just death"?

It's easy to explain why we get excited over war - fear of death, love of family and friends, compassion, and other INSTINCTUAL emotions.
I guess you answered my question though, in that "almost ALL animals have a zone", which means that that too is instinctual.

My initial question was really whether or not our "zone" was instinctual, or if it was learned. Obviously, you believe it's instinctual, and you may well be right.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/11/02 12:54 AM)


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1130211 - 12/10/02 10:10 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

You're not being a tad hypocritical now are you, Zahid?


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1130306 - 12/10/02 10:35 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

OK then, show me the line where I said anything about "ALL"...

I never said you said all, I am just making a point.

What do you mean it isn't enough?

I mean it isn't enough just saying you have associtated with Gays, the problem I am talking about is accepting Gay culture. It is not neccasrily directed at you. I don't think you are a Homophobe and I agree with your statement about you having no problem with people who respect your boundaries. However, do you think Gay's are more likely to violate those boundaries? I do not.

You have your standards and I have mine. You have not lived my life, and yet (contrary to your entire point) you can judge how I SHOULD feel and act?

I NEVER, EVER said my way was the right way and that you must live by it. I simply stated my opinion as you have stated yours, nothing more, nothing less. My beliefs are my beliefs, not facts, I know that, that is why I ended my entire statement by saying it was all my opinion.

That is like saying, "I don't care how many pit bulls you have been mauled by, don't judge the next one by your past experiences. Pet the cute little doggie without fear."

You cannot liken Gay's to pitbulls. The analogy does not hold true in my opinion. Whatever justification you have for prejudging people is just that, an excuse to prejudge people. By assoiciating a skin color or sexual orientation with violence or negativity or sexual misconduct is EXACTLY what racism or Homophobia is. Any racist feels that the reason they hate is not because they are hateful, but because they are justifed.

I don't know the causal link, but there are neighborhoods through which you will not walk late at night because of presuppositions (and probably accurate ones at that!)

The thing is where do you draw the line of "just being safe" or disrespecting and associating a color with negativity? I draw it on the side of love, but I would not fault someone who drew it on the side of protectiveness.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Grav]
    #1130765 - 12/11/02 01:00 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It's none of my business what homosexuals do behind closed doors. Most homosexuals want everyone else to accept every aspect of their lifestyle. If they do not, the word homophobe is thrown around very loosely. It's not an issue about Bob and Harry who want to pay a mortgage together. When you accept the full deal, you accept everything. The clubs, the lifestyle, the washrooms, the leather scene, you name it. If we all listened to the APA, men having sex with boys would be considered acceptable.


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Edited by Zahid (12/11/02 01:02 AM)


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1130783 - 12/11/02 01:07 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Most homosexuals want everyone else to accept every aspect of their lifestyle." 
"The clubs, the lifestyle, the washrooms, the leather scene, you name it."


What's wrong with that?  They put up with our lifestyle, don't they?  :tongue:

Seems ok with me so long as I'm not forced to go to their clubs, washrooms, etc. 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1131678 - 12/11/02 01:16 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, nobody is forcing you to go to gay clubs. They have every right to have gay bars, gay parades... etc.

They even have a pill now that allows gay men to make love!


Who the hell are the APA?

There are people of all sexualities espousing radical or stupid viewpoints. There is no higher rate of pedophilia among gay men than there is among straight men.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1131739 - 12/11/02 08:03 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Zahid, do you think they're going to hell?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Grav]
    #1132567 - 12/11/02 02:20 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

No.

Why would I think that?

The last I checked the only unforgivable sin is dying in shirk--and it is God who knows the secrets of our hearts, not I.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132641 - 12/11/02 02:49 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

So, uh, who are the APA?

And why is there a problem with gay clubs and all that when you're not being forced to go?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1132654 - 12/11/02 02:54 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There is no higher rate of pedophilia among gay men than there is among straight men.

Actually the rate of pedophilia amongst Homosexuals is significantly less than the percentage of Hetrosexuals.

The associating of Homosexuality and Pedophila is yet another stereotype that is unfounded.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1132658 - 12/11/02 02:56 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Swami I respect your point of view and your mind, even when I do not agree, and I am anxiously awaiting your response to my last post to you.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1132669 - 12/11/02 02:59 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"Actually the rate of pedophilia amongst Homosexuals is significantly less than the percentage of Hetrosexuals. "

Is that the number of abuse incidents, or the actual number of people who are pedophiles, because that would be pretty hard to measure accurately.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1132684 - 12/11/02 03:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It is percentage.

Roughly .8% of Homosexuals are Pediphiles, whereas roughly 3.2% of Hetrosexuals are also Pediphiles.

This was a study done for a magazine, I am almost certain it was "Time" in 1998.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1132711 - 12/11/02 03:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)


The associating of Homosexuality and Pedophila is yet another stereotype that is unfounded.


Saying there are more gay pedophiles than hetero pedophiles would be an ignorant comment. I compared homosexuality with pedophilia because they are both sexual fetishes, just like infantalism or exhibitionism. You have normal sexuality, which is a healthy apetite for attractive women. Then you have the many sexual perversions/split sexualities which are almost always developed in adolescence.


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132753 - 12/11/02 03:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

When you accept the full deal, you accept everything. The clubs, the lifestyle, the washrooms, the leather scene, you name it. If we all listened to the APA, men having sex with boys would be considered acceptable.

Are you saying you accept every aspect of straight sex? The S&M scene, the leather clubs, exhibitionism etc......

Do you find men having sex with girls or women having sex with boys any more acceptable?


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1132777 - 12/11/02 03:42 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Now you're dragging the issue of Western society into this topic.


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132846 - 12/11/02 04:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Now you're dragging the issue of Western society into this topic. 

Would you care to elaborate?  What do you mean by this statement?
:confused:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132895 - 12/11/02 04:25 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Saying there are more gay pedophiles than hetero pedophiles would be an ignorant comment.

Sorry, I was speaking about the stereotype that a lot of people have, I didn't mean that you had it.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132906 - 12/11/02 04:33 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"I compared homosexuality with pedophilia because they are both sexual fetishes, just like infantalism or exhibitionism."

Most other sexual fetishes incorporate attractive members of the opposite sex. Homosexuality is the only one that is accompanied by physical changes, like finger length, and a different voice.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133225 - 12/11/02 06:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

However, do you think Gay's are more likely to violate those boundaries?
I don't play the more/less likely game. I only have my own experiences.

You cannot liken Gay's to pitbulls. The analogy does not hold true in my opinion.
Please DO NOT play dumb. Reread the post. I did NOT liken Gays to pit bulls. My analogy was about LEARNING and response to negative stimuli, not about any characteristic comparison.

Naturally, you did not answer my question. Would you pet the 100th pit bull or not? If yes, you have a learning dysfunction, if no then you are prejudging the dog!

I will respond no more until you CLEARLY address this point as it is useless until I understand how you view the REAL world.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133240 - 12/11/02 06:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Actually the rate of pedophilia amongst Homosexuals is significantly less than the percentage of Hetrosexuals.

The associating of Homosexuality and Pedophila is yet another stereotype that is unfounded.


As the object of a dozen come-ons from adult men before I was 18 and ZERO come-ons from adult women, your statistic is highly suspect unless you are stating that only male adults are predators. Then my story tells nothing as I cannot speak to male-on-female pedophilia.

My personal association of Homosexuality and Pedophila had NOTHING to do with any stereotype and everyting to do with personal experience. I was exposed to no media linkage until long after I had these encounters.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1133247 - 12/11/02 06:51 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"As the object of a dozen come-ons from adult men before I was 18 and ZERO come-ons from adult women, your statistic is highly suspect unless you are stating that only male adults are predators. Then my story tells nothing as I cannot speak to male-on-female pedophilia."

You never hear about women raping young boys either.

Men tend to be attracted to people that are younger, and women are often attracted to older men.

Then again, if an older woman came onto a teenage male, I think they'd go for it, and it certainly wouldn't make the news.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1133283 - 12/11/02 07:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I don't play the more/less likely game. I only have my own experiences.

You are not answering my question. Do you think Gays are more likely than Straights to sexual assault you?

Please DO NOT play dumb.

I am not playing dumb. I simply believe, "The analogy does not hold true, in my opinion". That isn't playing dumb, that is disagreing.

Naturally, you did not answer my question. Would you pet the 100th pit bull or not?

You never asked a question. What you said was..."That is like saying, "I don't care how many pit bulls you have been mauled by, don't judge the next one by your past experiences. Pet the cute little doggie without fear.""

You didn't ask a question so I don't think you should get upset with me not answering it.

As to the question, like I said an analogy only works if you can liken it to reality. Homosexuals cannot be likened to dogs in reality. They have different intelligence levels, thought processes, desires, needs and therefore ENTIRELY different and uncomparable behaviors. However, for what its worth I would observe the dogs behavior and open myself up to the dog slowly. I would not tell the dog he didn't have the right to get married. :wink:

If yes, you have a learning dysfunction, if no then you are prejudging the dog!

Those are the only two options and conclusions? A situation involving Human beings with conflicting emotions, desires, thoughts and experiences has only TWO outcomes and TWO conclusions? Seems a little limited to me. What about the option to be observant and note things about the Homosexual and then decide how trustworthy he or she is? That isn't prejuding and immediatly thinking because they are Gay I need to keep a watch on them, thats what people do to each other. I do that to everyone and in my opinion a Homosexual isn't putting me in anymore risk than anyone else. I am going to need a FAR better reason to believe someone is worthy of being grouped into a higher catergory of mistrust because they are Gay.

Again I say -

Whatever justification you have for prejudging people is just that, an excuse to prejudge people. By assoiciating a skin color or sexual orientation with violence or negativity or sexual misconduct is EXACTLY what racism or Homophobia is. Any racist feels that the reason they hate is not because they are hateful, but because they are justifed.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Edited by Shroomalicious (12/11/02 07:10 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133307 - 12/11/02 07:16 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think Gays are more likely than Straights to sexual assault you?
YES!

Let me attack the "99 out of 100 gays" thought experiment one more time. Do past experiences affect your behavior? What might lead you to believe, a priori, that the 100th would be an exception?

If you had 99 great experiences with cocker spaniels and 99 bad experiences with pit bulls, would you approach the two 100th dogs differently?

I submit that every single person on the planet with normal mental capacity would treat the two breeds differently. This is bias, but not blind cultural bias.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (12/11/02 07:20 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1133318 - 12/11/02 07:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I've gotta say, if you're a male, then yeah, gay men are way more likely to sexually assault you than straight men.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1133339 - 12/11/02 07:29 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Even if you had a dozen (I don't know if you specified the number) terrible experiences with Homosexuals that doesn't give the right to prejudge the MILLIONS around the world based on the fact that you knew 12 "bad Homosexuals", in my opinion.

There are PLENTY of people in the world who have had bad experiences with people who use pychodelics, does that give them the right to prejudge you?

There are PLENTY of people in the world who have had bad experiences with Americans, does that give them the right to prejudge you?

There are PLENTY of people in the world who have had bad experiences with women, does that give them the right to prejudge you? Ever met a sexist? Don't they piss you off? Sexism is the female equal to Homophbia for Gays.

These are questions that beg to be answered.

Do past experiences affect your behavior? What might lead you to believe, a priori, that the 100th would be an exception?

If all Homosexuals were the same exact person than it would be okay to judge the 100th Gay based on the other 99. However, all Homosexuals have as different and diverse personalities, cultures and communities has Heterosexuals. So the 99 being bad would lead me to believe that those 99 are bad...as for the 100th guy, who knows? Not me, so why prejudge?


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1133362 - 12/11/02 07:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I've gotta say, if you're a male, then yeah, gay men are way more likely to sexually assault you than straight men.

How so? Based on what?


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133364 - 12/11/02 07:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Nice dodge on my clear, succinct questions.


--------------------



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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1133454 - 12/11/02 08:04 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Nice dodge on my clear, succinct questions.

I believe I answered your questions. I also believe I asked you several questions, of which you did not answer at all. Yet, you are irritated with me for doing the same...are you saying that two wrongs make a right?

To review the questions...You said -
"Do past experiences affect your behavior? What might lead you to believe, a priori, that the 100th would be an exception?"

To which I replied EXACTLY why I wouldn't judge the 100th person.

Also as to the question - "If you had 99 great experiences with cocker spaniels and 99 bad experiences with pit bulls, would you approach the two 100th dogs differently?"

I believe I have already cleared up why I think the analogy is unture. I don't think I minced my words on that at all. Moreover, I believe I answered your question as to exactly how I would approach the 100th dog.

I believe I have answered all your questions and you continue to avoid answering mine. That isn't intended to be a slam, it is my opinion. You ask me questions, I answered. I ask you questions you respond by saying (to the effect of) "you are dodging the question" in the very same post that you do not answer mine.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133486 - 12/11/02 08:12 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

So tell me, how is ol' Aristotle anyway?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133500 - 12/11/02 08:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

sorry for joining so late, and not reading the thread, but I just wanted to say that in my opinion racism is the biggest problem on the planet.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1133530 - 12/11/02 08:24 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

So tell me, how is ol' Aristotle anyway?

Sorry, there is just some joke here or something that I am just not bright enough to get. Please tell me what you meant.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133581 - 12/11/02 08:51 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

What I meant in a humorous way was that you couldn't have possibly read Aristotle or you wouldn't think the way you do.


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1133703 - 12/11/02 10:38 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Although I am by no means well versed in his teachings, I have read some of his stuff and while he is obviously amazing he isn't one of my favorite thinkers and I disagree with some of his philosophies. I tend to side with other great thinkers.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133711 - 12/11/02 10:44 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I see. It's funny I hear that a lot but when I press for an explanation of what exactly Aristotle taught very few actually know.

Most of the time those that disagree simply haven't read Aristotle well enough to understand him.

Was it his ethics or his metaphysics that you had a problem with?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1133714 - 12/11/02 10:47 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think the thing about homophobes is that when they think of a gay guy, they think of that guy having sex with another guy, and that disgusts them. Boy George once said that the problem with admitting you're gay is that then people only think of you by what you do in the bedroom. I think that's true. People get that picture in their head, and they don't want to think about that, so they take it out on that person, when it's their own imagination they have to blame. Why is two gay lovers holding hands or hugging gross? People only think it's gross because it makes them think about the two of them in bed together.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1134323 - 12/12/02 06:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Was it his ethics or his metaphysics that you had a problem with?

I didn't agree with SOME of his conclusions about what was ethical. To me, it all sounded good and well explained, but I think he neglected to mention other point of views, or at least didn't mention other points of view TRUE to their points. His metaphysics were over my head. I feel like I understood them but not well enough to disagree, I can't really beat that, ya know? Whereas with ethics, I think everyone with a Mind and Spirit is on even playing field.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Edited by Shroomalicious (12/12/02 06:41 AM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1134325 - 12/12/02 06:37 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I really agree with your post SilverSurfer.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1134416 - 12/12/02 07:07 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Now, I agree with you completely, but, I don't think that there's any good reason for them to be disgusted by the idea of two men having sex.

The disgust is just hammered in their by their upbringing. That disgust is less natural than gay sex.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1134432 - 12/12/02 07:10 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I am disgusted by anal sex, it has nothing to do with somebody being a man or a woman, it has to do with smell, the shit and the increased risk of infection.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1135114 - 12/12/02 11:48 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

You know, it's interesting. I was watching this program on the History Channel about ancient Rome, and they were saying that the Romans didn't have a concept of homosexuality as we have it today, since it was common for men to have sex with both their male and female slaves. It wasn't seen as a matter of attraction because slaves were considered property, and the Roman noblemen were just using their property. Also, in ancient Sparta, a young boy would be partnered with a full-grown solder as part of his military training. They would become very close, and many have speculated that their relationship was not only functional, but also sexual.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1135316 - 12/12/02 12:39 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

regarding your previous post..

interesting point... I wonder if there are many gay couples that abstain from sex?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1137046 - 12/13/02 01:17 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

By the way that would be my attempt at humour. Sorry, guess I should have warned you.

As my brother once said while stoned - "Metaphysics? I was never good at math..."


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1147274 - 12/16/02 11:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Swami, I am still awaiting your thoughts in response to my questions. I doubt they left you speachless. :wink: 


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Evolving]
    #1148084 - 12/17/02 08:22 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There's a very large number of gay men who are disgusted by, and abstain from anal sex.

I heard somewhere that only about 50% actually have anal sex... but I have no idea whether that's true.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1148096 - 12/17/02 08:27 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

If there is anything that people lie about it's sex. I think statistics on sexual practices would be very hard to prove.

"I won't come in your mouth."

The joke 'lie' told by many a man.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1148245 - 12/17/02 09:16 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"I won't come in your mouth."

Just exactly how many men have told you that before you stopped falling for it?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1148289 - 12/17/02 09:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

:grin: :grin: :grin:

"If there is anything that people lie about it's sex."

Whatever I said at this point would have to be taken with a grain of salt, now wouldn't it?

I will say that in certain situations once is enough. :wink:


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