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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Loc: Arizona
Homosexuality and The Bible
    #765777 - 07/22/02 04:06 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

One of the major problems I have with Christianity and other similar religions is their belief toward homosexuality. I have met so many "Christians" in my life who claim that gay people are going to hell "because the Bible says so." I have even been shown passages from the Bible that "prove" this is true.

I was hoping somebody who agrees with this could help me understand why this would be so. I thought God was supposed to love all people unconditionally and forgive people for their sins.

If being gay is a sin, does this mean that gay people must repent for the fact that they are homosexual in order to have any chance of getting into heaven? This seems silly to me because being gay is not something you choose or something you can choose to change. Why would God make you repent for something like this?

My personal beliefs are that men wrote the Bible, and some of those men were homophobic. Thus they included anti-gay passages in the Bible in hopes that homosexuality would be practically erradicated if it was seen as a sin punishable by God.

Now, in modern times, many homophobic people use these passages to justify their fear, prejudice, and hatred. I have a big problem with this because I thought that Christians are supposed to have love for their fellow man no matter what; just as God loves all unconditionally. It is no wonder to me why so many gay people are afraid to come out of the closet, and why so many gay people commit suicide.

Comments?


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Namaste.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #765893 - 07/22/02 04:42 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: World Spirit]
    #766392 - 07/22/02 11:50 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Enter is correct. Fear God, for he is an angry God. And prone to making mistakes.

Oh, and you can't buy alcohol before 12:30 on a Sunday either. God hates that. I'm glad that someone 2000 years ago found about this. Otherwise we would all be buying alcohol on Sundays, and we wouldn't even know that God was secretly frowning down on us from the sky. What would that be like?


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: World Spirit]
    #766560 - 07/22/02 02:10 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks, enter. That was really enlightening for me. As I've said before, I don't really know much about the Bible or the word of God. The only knowledge I have is from "Christians" I have known in my personal life.

One problem that I still have is that SO many Christians look at gay people as BAD. Many of them that I've seen or met are actually mean and hateful towards gay people. Some wont even associate with gay people just because they are gay and the Bible says that is a sin.

Do you think this is wrong?

Like you said, the same thing is true with those who masterbate, those who fornicate, those who even lust. All of these things are sins, and I think it's safe to say that they are committed by everyone who belongs to the human race. So why is it okay for certain Christians to discrimnate against homosexuals when they are sinners in some way themselves?

That is what does not make sense to me... Like I said in my first post, I think that many "Christians" use those passages in the Bible to justify their hate and fear. I personally don't think that those Christians are being Christian in the true sense of the word. What do you think about this?

Peace,

RebelSteve


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Namaste.


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OfflineCurious_George
You want abaloon?

Registered: 07/15/02
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #766566 - 07/22/02 02:15 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if that's true about masturbation..

HOLD ON SATAN I"M ON MY WAY !!!

CG


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************************************.>>>>>
Here Johny,, have a joint.. all your friends are doing it!!


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #766599 - 07/22/02 02:41 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #766779 - 07/22/02 04:03 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus

The central message of the Bible is salvation through repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

After the commandment to love God we are commanded to love "our neighbor as ourselves".

Seems like many "christians" haven't read the Bible or do not follow what it says.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #766969 - 07/22/02 05:32 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Seems like many "christians" haven't read the Bible or do not follow what it says.

Hey, I guess we agree on something, Mr_Mushrooms!


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Namaste.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #767006 - 07/22/02 05:42 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #767067 - 07/22/02 06:06 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

LOL! Yes, I'll make a note of it. I think it is great that we seem to enjoy each others posts and yet do not agree on very much. Too bad that isn't more common!



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OfflineBuzzDoctor
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #767703 - 07/22/02 09:58 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Much of what I've read about King James who authorized one of the most popular versions of the bible indicated that he was a homosexual.
Personally, I believe that people are born homosexual or straight or bi, I don't think it's a consience choice. If that's the case then God must have made these people that way. So then homosexuality shouldn't be a sin. The argument of course is that some people are born to enjoy murder, blah blah blah ...

I think that if you live your life not hurting other people and are kind and helpful, your afterlife will be ok.

Buzz


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Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: BuzzDoctor]
    #768168 - 07/23/02 12:33 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Personally, I believe that people are born homosexual or straight or bi, I don't think it's a consience choice. If that's the case then God must have made these people that way. So then homosexuality shouldn't be a sin. The argument of course is that some people are born to enjoy murder, blah blah blah ...

Homosexuality is a perversion just like Pedophilia and fetishism. When you have a deeper relationship or strong belief in God, these lusts die out. Homosexuals don't go to hell, but Sodomites who believe their actions are right, and do not repent, may spend some time in hell (forever if they don't believe in the existence of a Creator). Throughout the Muslim world, their is a minority of homosexual men who do not act out their animal desires at all or commit anything haraam. They pray, fast, and work for the Creator. They obey Him completely. For fear of God is a sincere belief in God.


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: World Spirit]
    #768183 - 07/23/02 12:36 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Enter, I'd love to see bible references to the 'he doesnt love all people thing.' Would be a wonderful slap in the face to my incredibly overzealous Catholic family members..


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #768270 - 07/23/02 01:03 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

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Offline11polakie11
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #769719 - 07/23/02 03:25 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

this may have been said, and the post may be old..but here's my response..

christianity was *was* based on the teachings of jesus christ...the bible was written by men, men who were NOT jesus..so taking something that was an oral tradition for hundreds of eyars and breaking it down into a text after hundreds of years of translations and changes does not mean it is the final say in how things are. HOmosexuality became a no no in the bible because, according to the history channel, the origional scriptors of the bible beleived that semen was the "fluid of life" and so homosexuality would be a waste of the seed..and so they made a little adendum in the bible about it being evil...once again, men wrote the bible...jesus and god did not, and thats who christians are supposed to follow..

jesus never said anything about who not to love...he said to love, be compassionate and seek the kingdom of god, have faith (and thats all inside..)

people are actually much more stupid in these enlightened modern times than ancient peoples were..

adam


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-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #771726 - 07/24/02 04:45 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Rebel S -
Just a quick POV, that may help with why 'Xians' in general dont 'like' gays.
Back in the Day (When the folks were writing the Books later to be known as the Bible (which just means Book)
Paganism, or Polytheism was the Norm. From Egypt to Rome, most people believed in a pantheon of Gods to help with Lifes foibles, and big stuff.
Many of the tenents of Christanity/Islam/Jewdiasm were structured around telling a Pagan (nature worshipper) from a 'real Jew/Muslim/Christain.
The Gay Hating came into play as an after effect - Incase you didint know, most religious rituals were for Fertitly/ harvest. before they were used for submission.
In these rituals, sex played an important part. there were sects of Dianics (worshoippesof Diana, and thought to be Lesbian in nature) And Dionisian Followers (Dionysis was the God of Wine & Revelry, and a lot of gay men were in his Cult) so you see, gay bashing was Just 'Good for Business" which is all Religion is.
In order to weed out a good 'christian/jew/muslim/ from a Pagan, you could set up a law preventing man on man - woman on woman rituals from taking place -
Ever wonder why Jews dont eat pork - look it up.
Wonder why Muslims abhore Women during their Menses? - Look it up
its all very interesting.
Dont let a book writen by a handful of desert wanders, who's whole 'world' took place inside of a 30 mile radius dictate your life.
-OoD
PS- to al ofyou who hold the Bible/Talmud/Koran as truth, great.
I you intend on making a rebuttal, do NOT use these texts as a basis for why I am 'wrong' the argument would be rendered moot.


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OfflineCaliChronic
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #771740 - 07/24/02 04:59 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

dont follow those teachings (or fairy tale books either) in the first place. it will get you nowhere except the place they put you in. look elsewhere.



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...
overgrow


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #778940 - 07/27/02 02:51 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I must say, I have posted on the "invisible man" theory many times, but yet again, someone comes up with a different angle. And, damn, if all the "I love the invisible man","God is love", people just come POURING out of the woodwork.

There is no God. Get over it. Science is not perfect, it is based in REALITY; something one cannot say of God.

Just for kicks how about a rational refutation of this:


There are some people that believe, God is or could be, Love. If this is so then God's relationship with human beings is that of an ALL ENCOMPASSING love. As such those who have FAITH that God exists, that they love God and God loves them must question their relationship with God. In considering the realationship (with God) the person in question must ask ones self "is this a positive relationship; is this relationship harmful to me?".

The nature of RELIGION assures us that this is wrong, one must not question the relationship with God, one must have faith that God, and as an extension, his dogma, is infallable. To this end, religion, while purporting to be heralding the LOVE of GOD, brings about HATE. Hate of other religions, those who don't believe as "THEY" do and those who do not live as the particular dogma dictates. You have to look no further than your local law library to see how religion encompasses the very opposite of what God is purported to be. Religion's don't exist in love, they exist in HATE and conflict. Religion's, the world over, dictate the way a peson should live in obeisance of a certain God. There is no room for compromise, not when you are talking about religion; it's live "our" (whoever happens to be in power at the time) way or die.

This brings me to the next argument; RELIGION vs. GOD.
Invariably, when one discusses God or religion, the same arguments present themselves ad nauseum. One being, that God exists, the other being that god aka "the invisible man" does not exist. The second argument that surrounds the God vs. religion debate is which religion is praying to the RIGHT God? And, third, but MOST IMPORTANT, is the INDIVIDUAL relationship with God.

The mere act of believing or not is simplistic in nature but complex in makeing the decision to believe in God or not. Does God exist? Can I find any evidence of this being? Does the lack of evidence of existance, in itself, lend to the supposition that God does NOT exist? Or, does the lack of evidence of exitance lend itself to the supposition that God DOES exist? I can't answer this, not for anyone else anyway, the answer that FAITH is the answer is ludicrous. I have FAITH that the sun will rise tommorow, my faith is based on experience and science. but I am rational enough to know that a nuclear attack will make it irrelevant. Those who believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience, science cannot help them here. Those who do not believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience; science can't help them either. "My mother died; it was God's will" "My mother died; her heart stopped".

I'll skip the second argument; which religion is worshipping the correct God. It doesn't lend itself to this particular question of "Love vs. Hate and Religion vs. God". Besides, it would take me a couple of months to properly encompass that particular argument. I do, however , wish to address my arguments to the third proposition; "the individual's relationship with God".

It is this personal relationship with God that brings us to the lack of understanding between those that don't worship a God vs. those that do worship a God. What rational, faith, can exist in the worship of a being that cannot be counted on to engage us in a rational manner nor to engage us in a loving manner? Consider this, my child dies, it hurts, I ask God why, he dosen't answer. My friends and pastor tell me that it is God's will, that he, indeed, has a plan and my loss and pain is part of that plan. They go on to tell me that God still loves me, even though he allowed my most precious of possesions to die; my child, a part of me. They tell me that God may be testing my faith, that I should still continue to trust in God and to continue to have FAITH in his plan for me. Now, if I told a woman , in an abusive relationship, that her husband still loved her, that he had a plan, that he was beating the hell out of her and causing her pain just to test her love for him most of you would call me an idiot; and rightly so. The nature of RELIGION is that it trys to REMOVE the rational mind from the human being and force that person to continue in a very unpleasant and destructive relationship.

The nature of religion is that it holds God to standards we, as rational beings, would LOUDLY and FORCFULLY REJECT. Who, by a show of hands, would allow that some entity, perporting to love us would cause us pain and then have the unmitigated gall to tell us that we should just keep haveing FAITH?
Why should those that have FAITH, NOT, question their relationship with God? Will he get mad? Will he kill us? There is ONE thing and, one thing only, that religious FAITH has that no other rational relationship can ever give us; a means to live forever in happiness. It is this so-called promise that allows religion's to twist and corrupt the experience of believing in ANY GOD into just a way to control others.

Religion is not an acceptable, rational, positive relationship. Religion, extreme or otherwise, is a simple matter of using the spiritual nature of man to excise the rational, MORAL, nature of man. Speaking in VERY general terms, christians loath voodoo and witchcraft. They (christians) do their best to debunk other religious practices as evil, wrong, devil inspired (why do we need a devil?) or UNENLIGHTENED. Other religions use their dogma to control women; to keep them in their place or to use them as the scape goat of everything that goes wrong. Other religions use their religious dogma to control the lives of their parishioners or their clergy.

I debunk ALL religions as UNENLIGHTENED, I make no distinctions between any religion in this manner. All religions seek to CONTROL rational beings by the threat of everlasting terror and pain, religions use the "promise" of life everlasting to try to tear the rational mind from the human being. I have no beef with God, as such, I simply believe, and history proves me out, that religion is the baliwick of man and has little or nothing to do with a personal relationship with the God or Goddess that many would happily believe in, if not for the fear that they would involve themselves with some irrational religious doctorine.

I cannot prove that God exists and I cannot prove that God does not exist. But, I CAN prove, or at least bring into serious question, that God ever existed in a religious sense. Consider: the christian religion, old testament, God was a ferocious, vengeful God, he allowed NO sin to go unpunished (just ask the jews); then, from on "high" there was born a son of God and God allowed his son to be tortured and killed so that people might have a method of forgivness, so that even the most vile of sinners may have access to the "everlasting life in heaven". Is it only me that sees this as an underlying control mechanism; as a way to increase the pool of believers? Am I the only one that sees that RELIGION, at this period of world history, needed to purport some type of forgivness mechanism to continue to get people to worship a God, long since, considered,at the least, to be harsh and unforgiving?

The nature of man suggests that we are born moral beings, with the ability to think and act in a rational manner. We are capable of abstract thought, thus, leading us to also be spirtual beings. To consider the "WHY" "WHERE" and "HOW" of our existance. To ask these questions leads us to try to find a rational answer to them. The belief of a supreme being is not inherently irrational, but to build religion around this belief, especially the religions that man has built, IS IRRATIONAL.

It is only with religious fervor and hatred that a plant was made illegal, it is only with the hatred of religious dogma that women are treated as second class citizens. The mere fact that women are not, mostly, treated that way in western society's is that our society insisted on a more ENLIGHTEND treatment of women; in direct opposition to religious dogma. It is only with religous hatred that same sex lover's are treated as less than human.

We, those on the ethnobotanical boards, constantly look for enlightenment from our politicians, in the hope that one day we can all sit down at the same lake side and smoke the biggest, fattest, dooby every rolled, without fear of being Joe Bob's sexual plaything. I think that this will never happen and the reason is in our faces evey day; RELIGION. Only when religion is made to take a backseat to the needs of the individual. Only when religion becomes ENLIGHTEND enough to accept God as a loving being and not as the means to control others will we be free from the religious tyranny that has taken over the world. When a law is no longer based on "protecting me from me" and is NOT based in some religious dogma will we, those without FAITH, be able to seriously consider the question of God. Until that time, we look to other areas of our spirituality and hope that is enough, because the alternative is linked to religous dogma and religous dogma is, invariably, linked to hatred.

I make no apologies for being a rational being. I am also a spiritual being. I believe that a rational being CAN believe in a God, it is in our nature to seek out the spirituality of our being and to manifest it in some way. There is NO rational being that can believe in ANY religious dogma that seeks to control a persons actions. This is contrary to our nature, our intellect and to our constitutionaly protected rights (you knew I would get the constitution in there didn't you?). God may be around somewhere, but I doubt that you will find him in any unenlightend religious text. I can find my spirit in the simple act of fishing. It is one of my most favorite things to do. Not sport fishing, just baiting a hook in a shady piece of water, somewhere far enough from others that what I am smoking won't be a concern and far enough away from thirsty individuals; I don't think they would want to drink my particular brand of "tea".


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: 11polakie11]
    #779015 - 07/27/02 03:27 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

...'zackley what i was going to say.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #864538 - 09/05/02 07:12 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

The act of homosexual sex or fornication for that matter are both sins. Unrepentant sinners that die in their sins do go to hell. This is true. Same goes for thieves, idoloters and drunkards. If you repent and turn to Jesus he will forgive you and wash your sins from you. He will help you when you turn to him and help you not to sin anymore.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #864979 - 09/05/02 03:31 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Jesus would roll over in his fucking grave.  Wait!!! i'm doing exactly what you do by making that statement. i'm appropriating the life of a dead man for my own purposes. You rip Jesus out of the grave and shove your hand up his ass and make him puppet your ridiculous morality. it's pathetic and sick. why don't you come up with your own truth...your own morality? it takes too much strength and you are weak.  all morality is based on biology.  God is dead.  I'll see you in hell. 

To enter:  if god doesn't love everyone what's the point of having a god ?  we can find plenty of powerful motherfuckers on this planet who resemble gods in every respect except unconditional love.  another question you should put to your pathetic synaptic network is this: if god was all powerful, all knowing, and all around superduper why would he give a fuck if you sleep with your own sex? do you think god is concerned with morality? with making sure you reproduce in the natural way? GOD DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR LITTLE STAY HERE ON EARTH ANY MORE THAN YOU CARE ABOUT THE TINY LIFE SPAN OF DROSOPHILA! 

but Wait!!! i'm acting like you again!!! i'm projecting myself onto a concept called "God" and claiming it exists!  i'm as stupid as you!!!  God is as unknowable as the inner workings of nuetrinos are to modern science. you and i don't have shit to say about it.

GOD YOU PEOPLE PISS ME OFF!!!  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!  :grin:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #865148 - 09/05/02 05:15 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.theonion.com/onion3407/churchhomosexual.html

church group offers homosexuals new life in the closet

i'm so touched, really *blows hankerchief*


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineDanimal
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #865578 - 09/05/02 10:09 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

The act of homosexual sex or fornication for that matter are both sins. Unrepentant sinners that die in their sins do go to hell. This is true. Same goes for thieves, idoloters and drunkards. If you repent and turn to Jesus he will forgive you and wash your sins from you. He will help you when you turn to him and help you not to sin anymore.

Did you copy this from a Jerry Falwell transcript? I swear, there has to be some christian fundamentalist database where opinions, er....I mean "truths" about every aspect of modern life are stored and refined as according to Jesus.

Btw, your sig. is fucking hilarious, though I'm sure Reagan was dead serious when he read it from a teleprompter.


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #865588 - 09/05/02 10:14 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

bibles are gay


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #865602 - 09/05/02 10:24 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

"If being gay is a sin, does this mean that gay people must repent for the fact that they are homosexual in order to have any chance of getting into heaven?"

The Word of God clearly states homosexuality is a sin, that is not debateable.

What is the bottom line truth about sin? Any sin (a transgression of Holy Law) at all (even one) (in word, thought or deed) will result in that sinner being cast into the Lake of Fire forevermore.

Everyone commits thousands of sins, all do this because we are born children of Adam, in love with rebellion against God, and blind to our lost state. What must happen is we must be born again as the Spirit applies the Word to our heart, convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment. Then a lost sinner sees that he is a sinner without hope. Once the sinner sees this, then he can see the only thing that can commend himself to a Holy God, the perfect righteousness of Christ. Jesus Christ ALONE perfectly obeyed the Holy Law, met all its demands as the sins of His people were imputed to Him. He paid for the sins of His people by spending an equivalent to an eternity in hell for them.


"I thought that Christians are supposed to have love for their fellow man no matter what; just as God loves all unconditionally."

The common misconception today is the God loves everybody unconditionally. This is not biblical truth. The only people God loves unconditionally are those who are in Christ. God chose and named all those who would become saved from before the foundation of the world. The choosing of those ordained to eternal life was not based on forseen merits such as faith, repentance, ect., it was based soley on His good pleasure. God demonstrates His love to the ungodly, and loves them while they were ungodly. In time they are converted and given a new heart that loves His law, and they can see and know God.

Can one ever sin away salvation? No. Once truly converted, one has eternal life. Many think they are "saved" today, but in fact they were never ordained to eternal life, have no understanding of the gospel, and have never been given the new heart.

On another point, todays churches are an abomination, every one. I would not set foot in any of them. This was exactly foretold as the great falling away before the Judgment Day.



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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: fivepointer]
    #865608 - 09/05/02 10:26 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

It is clearly stated in the bible that Jesus was a homosexual, he would have sex with the young boys that the king would give to him, while the king watched and masterbated.
It's all in the bible, you just have to open the book and read.


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OfflineDelerium02
uberman
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 61
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #865614 - 09/05/02 10:29 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

i'll agree it's all there black and white i wouldnt say flaming but definetly bi


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I like to wander


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Delerium02]
    #866289 - 09/06/02 06:32 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

[clears throat]


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Offlinemirrorsaww
newbie
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 43
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Danimal]
    #866718 - 09/06/02 04:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Btw, your sig. is fucking hilarious, though I'm sure Reagan was dead serious when he read it from a teleprompter.

Reagan can read?


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Offlinemirrorsaww
newbie
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 43
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: World Spirit]
    #866757 - 09/06/02 04:16 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

This is a tough one to write about but it is actually very straight forward in the Bible, no pun intended. 1st Cor 6:9 and 1st Tim 1:10 are pretty clear.

Are you sure they are pretty clear?

HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES - 1 CORINTHIANS & 1 TIMOTHY


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: mirrorsaww]
    #866830 - 09/06/02 04:47 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting link.  As a student of New Testament Greek I offer this commentary:

The Greek word for effeminate, Malakoi bears a striking resemblance to another Greek slang word used today, Malaka.  That is because they are from the same root.  Malaka means asshole.  Think about it. :smile:

Cheers, 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: CaliChronic]
    #867298 - 09/06/02 08:59 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

'Methinks he protesteth too much.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #867771 - 09/07/02 02:53 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Well, at least, you got the balls to say it here. The acquaintances I debated with kept skirting the issue about homosexuality. The most distinct impression I got from it was they say the Bible says it. No matter what rational angle I represented. What obvious common sense I gave them. They stuck to the Bible like barnacles on a rock. These were rational (well, functional human beings) people who I find trust the Bible more than they trust themselves to discern the difference. of right and wrong vs birthright.

So as a free thinker, your truth is repugnant. I couldn't possibly submit, obey, and entrust my faith to any organized religion even if I wanted to. It is my innate nature to opposed your kind of religion. But I will listen to the master, an enlightened one, who has found true clarity of Yahweh ~ who is not bound by any word of god ~ who gives justice for all. NOt just the few and chosen. Not preach the fire and brimstone of "I turn to God , he will forgive me and I won't go to the fiery place." But procur unconditional love "God will forgive and accept me no matter what I do."







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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Calen]
    #868721 - 09/07/02 07:07 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Any Christian who is hardcore anti-gay is a hypocrite, (my sins are forgivable but theirs aren't) and you shoud stay away from them. And why exactly would being gay be a sin anyway, you know homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom don't you.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #868771 - 09/07/02 07:49 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

ANY MORE THAN YOU CARE ABOUT THE TINY LIFE SPAN OF DROSOPHILA!

A moment of silence for the poor fruit fly...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #869023 - 09/07/02 11:17 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

It's not so much the sexual orientation that's a sin, but the act itself. Homosexuality in action is a sin. There are many upright men and women who are homosexual and obey God. In fact, I would consider it a great form of worship for a God fearing homosexual to refrain from homosexual relations during his life on earth. In the Hereafter, he can have all the bears and twinks he wants.


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Edited by Zahid (09/07/02 11:19 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Zahid]
    #869049 - 09/07/02 11:31 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Are you trying to tell us something?

You can come out now. We won't hurt you, much.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #869098 - 09/08/02 12:03 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Haheheh you're a funny one. :laugh:

Incase you're wondering where I got the gay-slang from, I was close to a cousin of mine who was gay. After awhile I picked up on it. He was heavy into drugs, and he shot himself when he was 17.

Gay hating = suffering. Believers should stress the mercy of God to those who transgress.


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Edited by Zahid (09/08/02 12:04 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Zahid]
    #869130 - 09/08/02 12:23 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Misohomosy is not cool. I am sorry to hear about your cousin. The stats are that homosexuals and lesbians have a much shorter life span even without contracting std's. Suicide is but one reason. Pity.


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #870406 - 09/09/02 04:12 AM (20 years, 30 days ago)

Ok, Mr. Freud. Say that and enjoy getting lynched by a gathering Christians.

Real dumb


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Calen]
    #870412 - 09/09/02 04:16 AM (20 years, 30 days ago)

A true Christian does not revile when he hears error. Any Christian that would lynch a man for making an untrue statement is caught in the ego. A true Christian dies daily and so puts an end to his ego for the higher good which is his calling.

At least that's what I've heard.


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: ]
    #870711 - 09/09/02 07:17 AM (20 years, 29 days ago)

Then I challenge you to say what Shroomhermit 'the Freud' said in front of those uh loving chrisian folks.  I'll watich you run like a scared-sh!tless hyena. :wink: 


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Anonymous

Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: Calen]
    #870736 - 09/09/02 07:27 AM (20 years, 29 days ago)

I decline the challenge but thanks for offering. :grin:

I would say those folks aren't very christian.  But I think we all knew that. :tongue:

:grin: 


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Offlinerlmule
Stranger
Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2
Last seen: 20 years, 5 days
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #872252 - 09/09/02 07:19 PM (20 years, 29 days ago)

The concept of HELL as presented by most christians, that hell is a place of eternal suffering for those who die without christ, was conceived by a medieval bishop who was trying to scare people into coming to church. True Christianity teaches that The wages of sin are death. That's all. You no longer exist. The total absence of God.
I converted to Catholicism 4 years ago. I was not taught to hate anyone. Most of the people I meet in the catholic community feel the same way as I do. I hate no one.
My 18 year old son is a "homo". When I first started to suspect that he was gay, I went thru some tough times. This is a difficult thing for a father to accept. But after alot of prayer, research, and talking to my son, I have come to peace with the knowledge that my son is gay. Anyone who meets him and talks to him is instantly charmed by him. Their preconceived thoughts and stereotypes disappear. He is a good boy who happens to be gay. I am a christian. I hate no one. Do I wish that he were not gay? Of course. Do I love him any less? Of course not.


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Offlinebluesky
mushroom cowboy

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 561
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: rlmule]
    #872272 - 09/09/02 07:28 PM (20 years, 29 days ago)

I really think that the traditional "hell" is blown way out of proportion. I think that a person creates their own hell through loosing their personality through certian events in life, ie: homocide, suicide, or just plain being a rotton asshole to everyone and everything. If a person is happy with life and exercizes their personal energy, only good energy will come to them when they die. Going to hell is just loosing your personal life-force through life.


--------------------
You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Homosexuality and The Bible [Re: rlmule]
    #872414 - 09/09/02 08:33 PM (20 years, 29 days ago)

The concept of HELL as presented by most christians, that hell is a place of eternal suffering for those who die without christ, was conceived by a medieval bishop who was trying to scare people into coming to church. True Christianity teaches that The wages of sin are death. That's all. You no longer exist. The total absence of God.

I know many people have difficulty grasping the concept of Hell. I think it's the Anglican church that believes Hell is nothing more than a state of 'seperation from God'. My belief is that Hell is a place of torment, and while I find myself asking why God would punish His creations, I find my answers when I open the news paper. Today at work there was a story about a father who shot and killed his wife, his two kids, and then himself. Whoever this wicked man was, when he put the gun barrel to his head he was hoping with all his heart that nothing would exist after he pulled the trigger. People get away with their crimes all the time on earth, and that is why God will punish them. Regarding Hell and disbelief in God, I find it hard to accept that God would simply allow a disbeliever to no longer exist after death - since that is exactly what infidels believe in, and with that belief they do mischief in the world. They choose the reward of this life over the next, so they spend the rest of eternity in torment playing it out.

I converted to Catholicism 4 years ago. I was not taught to hate anyone. Most of the people I meet in the catholic community feel the same way as I do. I hate no one.

I very much agree. The only thing I hate in this world is Shaitan, who continues to corrupt my fellow man.

God bless you.


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