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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Racism, homophobia and homosexuality.
    #1127770 - 12/10/02 04:35 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

A teacher who teaches in a classroom of "mixed" ethnicity (what group of people isn't mixed, I know) demands that all kids with "Un-American" names must get used to the idea that they are American now and thus change their names (Jesus, Mika, Flora, etc.) to proper American names.

Is the teacher racist? She doesn't object to the children's skin color, just their "Un-American" names.

A boss tells an African American employee that she needs to start dressing more "American". Is the boss racist? He isn't firing her because she is black. Merely asking her to change her wardrobe into something he is more comfortable with, something more of his culture.

These are real stories of people whom I knew. I start out with the stories because, I feel, they demonstrated my point. I think the reason why people are homophobic and racist is because they hate/fear other cultures. I don't think it is the color of the skin or the sexual orientation that makes people hate other people, I think it is any difference that tries to "penetrate their" culture. A lot of racists I know, and probably you know, don't hate African American's who act like their culture. How many times do people complain about people of other cultures; hats, clothes, speech/terms, etc. Also, it has been my experience, and perhaps yours to, that homophobes don't just have a problem with gays, they generally have problems with everyone who clashes with their culture. In my opinion people don't get hung up on the actual color thing so much. They may identify the color with different cultures and then hate the color thing, but is isn't the skin color alone that makes them hate, IMO.

History is absolutely filled with people in vastly different circumstances who all go out and do the same thing, explore other regions with other peoples and what do they do? They immediately begin to tear down the native culture and bring in their culture, as dramatically as possible. Once the natives accepted their culture the contempt sunk dramatically, and in some cases the natives even went on to have high-ranking jobs and sometimes even political offices, once they accepted the culture. The pattern of finding other peoples and then destroying their culture to put in our culture is, in my opinion, undeniably consistent throughout all history.

Many of the people whom I have spoken to about this idea have rejected it initially and then later said that after they thought about it and saw it in action they agreed. Comment on the idea now, but if you disagree keep it in mind and think about it the next time you see a similar situation-taking place. You may still disagree, but just think about it.

What I am driving at is differences that don't hurt anybody, have no victims, are feared by human kind anyway. I suppose it's a fear of change. Our culture contains everything we have been comfortable with and when someone has a different culture, perhaps we may feel uncomfortable and even a little defensive, and sometimes aggressive. I don't know, I'm no psychologist.

What I am mostly driving at here is if you don't like an entire group of people, perhaps you should examine why. I am not and have never considered myself a homosexual but I feel that homosexuality is just yet another thing that our culture has yet to get comfortable with. Nothing more than that. No more immoral then the Blacks, Jews, etc. Culture is ever changing and some people don't adjust well, that's the way I see it. It is my contention that it matters not who you sleep with, and I think telling other grown people who they can and cannot sleep with or get married to is incredibly arrogant. Who gives you the right to tell others who to get married to? God? Well I don't think God did. Can you prove that he did? No more than I can prove it. So then we are both equal, we cancel each other out. Then live and let live. Besides, if Gays want to live their life in "sin", why not let them? If you believe it is evil, then be content with the idea they are going to hell. What do you care? God can take care of itself. In my opinion it's only the culture thing again. What, has homosexuality been linked to crime? How does it hurt you AT ALL?

Homosexuality hurts no one. To say it is unnatural is just not true, IMO. Homosexuality occurs in nature. To say it is an improper way to have sex implies that you know the proper way (a tad arrogant) and just by having "abnormal" sex you are immoral. Well excuse everyone who masturbates, gives or receives blowjobs, hand jobs, or just flat doesn't use the missionary position. That isn't natural, and apparently that is all it takes to get sent to hell, have "weird" sex. (Here is the tour of hell, over there is Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao and a guy who had weird sex...)

It is that whole fear of change thing again, in my opinion. Some people want to tell you how to live your life (no drugs, get a high paying job), who to get married to (no same sex marriages, no inter race marriages), what clothes to where ("inappropriate" dress), what to read (porno, or books with "bad ideas", which are often titled anything from "satanic" to "communist", whether or not they share anything in common with those beliefs), what music to listen to (censorship again), when to have sex (no sex before marriage), and even when to go to bed (after all the bible says that those who retire early, can get up early to do God's work, no joke!) to name a few. Once again there is this desire to make everyone conform to YOUR idea of culture.

Whatever culture you have, we share. Rejecting other culture is just denial, all cultures are inner mixed. The sooner people realize this, the happier we shall all be.

Who you have sex with is a non-factor in the goodness of a person, in my opinion. There are two many prying issues for me to try to control activity in other people's beds.

All my opinion, of course.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1127786 - 12/10/02 04:45 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

Right away I noticed my mushroom rating went down. Exactly as I supposed it would.

Just a note.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineGlacius
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1127934 - 12/10/02 06:24 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

Exactly. People that are like that, are just insecure about they're sexuality, and insecure about themselves in general. You can bet the a homophobe is just in the closet, and he doesnt like the way he is, so he takes it out on other people. Racism is wrong, and I agree with the culture clash thing. People are scared of what they dont know. The unknown. If people would open up, and be open minded, we sure could go along a lot better. People are just scared of themselves, and insecure about themselves.


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1128346 - 12/10/02 11:55 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Some of your examples aren't racist, but xenophobic.

I think homophobes are used to the idea that there are gay people. They just can't get over the idea that there's something horribly wrong with gays. Desperately afraid of being perceived as gay, or becoming gay. I'm not sure. This is what I posted about this earlier:

For some people, it really seems like a phobia. Some people get extremely freaked out when they're around gay people, they flip out if a gay guy hits on them. The same people might have no problem politely brushing off an unattractive girl, but they feel the need to get really angry, sometimes even violent when the would-be suitor is gay. I'm not so sure if this is a phobia of gay people, or a phobia of being perceived as gay by their peers. Maybe they believe that if they don't frighten away the gay guy, and act as straight as possible, they might be brainwashed into actually being gay. I don't know for sure how their actions can be explained, but there's definately some irrational fear there.



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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1128659 - 12/10/02 01:32 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

For some people, it really seems like a phobia. Some people get extremely freaked out when they're around gay people, they flip out if a gay guy hits on them.

Am not sure if I am homophobic, but am homo-pedophilo-phobic. I was an attractive, slender and muscular young man and was the object of countless predatory attacks from pre-teen to early twenties. That sort of experience certainly colors one's perception.

Three years ago, as a middle-aged (but still buffed) man, the aerobics instructor grabbed my cock in the sauna with no forewarning (no flowers or even dinner). He mistook my pleasant personality (this is real-life, not a message board to all you who are shocked) as some sort of a come-on. Now I have been in co-ed nudist saunas and have never seen this sort of TOTAL DISRESPECT between men and women occur. I would have clocked him, but he ran out at full speed when he saw my anger as I recoiled in disgust.

What is one to think? Now before you jump to conclusions, I had a best buddy for many years who was gay. We did all sorts of sports together. I had no problem because he either had no interest in me that way or respected my personal boundaries.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128695 - 12/10/02 01:40 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

I was an attractive, slender and muscular young man and was the object of countless predatory attacks from pre-teen to early twenties. That sort of experience certainly colors one's perception.

I don't know that it does for certain but it may. I have had the same experiences as a young man.

I know this though. If that pervert would I have done that to me I would have knocked him unconscious.


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128740 - 12/10/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

"Now I have been in co-ed nudist saunas and have never seen this sort of TOTAL DISRESPECT between men and women occur."

Gay culture is a little different than straight culture. Remember, it's two MEN who are dealing with each other in this case. If women used this kind of come on with a straight man, I'm sure the man would have no problem at all. There are men that use this kind of come on with women though, there's lots of them. Something like 1 in 5 women are raped at some point in their lifetimes.

I would definately be uncomfortable if a gay guy just grabbed my crotch. I would think it's a pretty disrespectful thing to do. Maybe it's fine in a gay bathhouse, but if you're not sure if the guy is gay, lay off. I have no problem with verbal come ons, but I would have to draw the line at sexual assault.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Phluck]
    #1128767 - 12/10/02 01:57 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah, well this was at your local family fitness center, not a S.F. bathhouse...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,130
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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128785 - 12/10/02 02:03 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

I didn't know you had an aggressive side, Mr Mushrooms. I had a similar experience to Swami's, but saw no reason to react angrily. I was taken aback though.


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128801 - 12/10/02 02:08 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

The difference probably is that you haven't had the experiences that Swami and I have.

Yes, I certainly have an aggressive side and there are several things that trigger it.

1. Self-Defense

2. Defense of one that I am responsible for.

3. If my soccer team is losing (just kidding)

I would immediately feel not only 'taken aback' I would feel violated. Violated as much as a womans might feel if I did that to her. I view such people as perverts no matter whose body they are grabbing, male or female.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128844 - 12/10/02 02:21 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

A guy grabbed my scrotum, and yes "violated" is probably a better way of describing what I felt than "taken aback". I didn't feel anger because I thought what he did was down to him - it was his problem, not mine. To be honest I pretty much went about my day as normal after that.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128852 - 12/10/02 02:25 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Well that explains it then. A scrotal grab is one magnitude less than a penile grab. How could you possibly compare one with the other?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128856 - 12/10/02 02:27 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

That's true. However this was less than a grab and more of a cup.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128857 - 12/10/02 02:28 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Next thing you know you will be downgrading it to a mere tickle...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128864 - 12/10/02 02:31 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Always with the one up man ship  :grin:.  No, this was a definate fondle .


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1128866 - 12/10/02 02:33 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

I'm waiting for someone to say "it's just skin, right?"


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Anonymous

Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Revelation]
    #1128876 - 12/10/02 02:34 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Maybe it didn't bother you too much because you have a gay gene or something and you just don't know about it. :wink:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: ]
    #1128885 - 12/10/02 02:37 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Possibly. I've never been attracted to a guy though.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Swami]
    #1129741 - 12/10/02 07:15 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

A Gay man acted inappropriately. That is one guy being an idiot. No one person speaks for an entire group of people.

I have known PLENTY of Gay guys, and girls, who I felt were assholes...but that just meant that they were assholes, not that ALL Gays are assholes.

If one straight Women grabbed your penis would you feel that Woman's behavior represented ALL Women, or just one?


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Racism, homophobia and homosexuality. [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1129861 - 12/10/02 08:06 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

I never said anything about all. Did you just jump over the quote from my previous post?

What is one to think? Now before you jump to conclusions, I had a best buddy for many years who was gay. We did all sorts of sports together. I had no problem because he either had no interest in me that way or respected my personal boundaries.

Try to actually read what I said, not what you "think" I said!

If one straight Women grabbed your penis would you feel that Woman's behavior represented ALL Women, or just one?

And what might one think after a dozen incidents?

Neither am I a racist, but as white who has been the victim (please no psychoanalysis here) of 6 major crimes involving blacks, I will not be as trusting when I see an African-American (there is absolutely no intention of hurting or slandering any fellow black shroomerites here) of approaching me at night as if these things had never occurred. This is called learning and observation. Prejudice (pre-judging) can be necessary when it comes to possible danger.




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The proof is in the pudding.


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