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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: kbilly]
    #3270601 - 10/24/04 01:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

How many genetic disorders are still passed along today?
How many that make it unable for one to pass one's genes along?

At numbers like 10% it would seem obvious that homosexuality, if partially or completely decided by genetic factors, would be a recessive trait, or combination of recessive traits, heck maybe a combination of recessive and dominant traits.

Thus it would be entirely possible to be passed on more or less indefinately.


I hate people who rally against homosexuality as much as I hate people who say it's ok because everyone's actually bisexual anyway and some of us just deny it.
Rick James slaps to all you bitches.
I didn't choose to be sexually attracted to women, I just love boobies damnit. And I didn't choose not to be sexually attracted to men, I'm just not damnit.

Everyone. Learn to live with it. Right now. And while you're at it, learn to live with what others do. What the hell business is it of yours, anyway? Hell -- we might as well start an Inquisition and burn people who enjoy EGGPLANT!

Well, were they BORN loving eggplant, or did they choose to love eggplant?

Get my drift?


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grar.


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: kbilly]
    #3271492 - 10/24/04 10:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you sure are defensive. it seems you must think you have offended me somehow and you have entered some kind of agressive defensive mode.
Quote:

and if you dont like me posting here the i suggest you dont read it, sorry to have damaged your precious retinas



wow...you treat your posts towards me like i hate gays or i typed that i hate your posts or something..
Quote:

you dudes are such fascists even though you all take shrooms.
live and let live for fuck sakes, what ever happened to love your neighbour.



Quote:

oh you want me to do your reading for you too.
sounds like your a bit diseased yourself.




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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: Diploid]
    #3276087 - 10/26/04 01:40 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i'd like to hear some more opinions on this subject..


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: felix]
    #3276260 - 10/26/04 02:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Homosexuality is caused by Homosexuality.... easy? :P


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3277207 - 10/26/04 06:17 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, it seems reasonable that homosexuality is genetic when it requires heterosexual sex to create children.

Seems perfectly reasonable when you have a basic understanding of genetics.

Just because you pass on a gene, doesn't necessarily mean the gene has an effect on you. For instance, maybe you're born with curly hair, but neither of your parents have curly hair... but you might have an uncle somewhere with curly hair or something.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: Phluck]
    #3277769 - 10/26/04 09:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i think what he is trying to say is if homosexualness is hereditary, how is it passed on through offspring each generation?

assuming it is genetic, once that gene became dominant it would hit a kind of roadblock, ending it's flow through the gene pool. so if this is the case, gayness would have wiped itself out, assuming again that the people are truly homosexual and have no offspring.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: felix]
    #3277811 - 10/26/04 09:12 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

by that, you could also assume that homosexuality is a genetic defect...

not saying it is, but that's what the gene theory behind homosexuality leads too.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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Offlinetomk
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Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: felix]
    #3277868 - 10/26/04 09:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

May I venture a guess?

Those who are arguing that homosexuality isn't genetic because homosexuals do not reproduce have no understanding of genetics. First, gay people do reproduce. I got news for you, I've fucked a lot of gay guys who have kids. Second, reproduction is not necessary to pass on your genes. Look, if you are one of three children, and you are gay and your siblings are straight, and you do not reproduce, you can still contribute to the success of your gene line by enabling and assiting with the reproduction efforts of your siblings. Add to this helping with extended family, and homosexuality could indeed be beneficial. It would go something like this. Consider 2 groups of siblings on islands. Family A has 2 straight kids and 1 gay one. Family B has three straight kids. The straight kids in Family A reproduce, creating 4 more children. The straight kids in family B reproduce, creating 6 more children. However, both islands only have enough resources for 7 people. In family A, everyone has enough resources. In family B, there aren't enough resources, and they have to start killing each other. In this case, homosexuality has positive value for passing on Genes even though no homosexual passed on genes.

If you think that genetic success requires each individual to pass on genes, you need to back to a science class.


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"I am eternally free"


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: tomk]
    #3277918 - 10/26/04 10:18 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

felix said:
once that gene became dominant it would hit a kind of roadblock, ending it's flow through the gene pool



a gene can only stay recessive for so long.

and i'm afraid primal instinct isn't complex enough to worry about available resources and whether or not people need to start killing each other off...lol
i can't consider gayness being a genetic adaptation to the environment, especially considering the time it would take to happen.

Quote:

tomk said:
gay guys who have kids



Quote:

felix said:
assuming again that the people are truly homosexual and have no offspring.



i wouldn't call a man or woman homosexual if they had kids...more like bisexual. this is obviously a choice and apparently leads to homosexuality not being genetic.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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Offlinetomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: felix]
    #3277964 - 10/26/04 10:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"A gene can only stay recessive for so long"

At this point I'm going to assume you have proved my point about you not knowing a damn thing about genetics.

I think that a person is better able to identify their own orientation than you are, and it's completely ridiculous to operate under the assumption that homosexuals do not have kids because it's a false assumption. Lots of people are pressured into marriages they don't want by family/societies expectations, etc, and perform this role unhappily for years before coming out. When a person has three kids, but was unhappy and depressed as a married man, unable to perform sexually with his wife without fantasizing about gay sex, and attempts suicide before coming out, I'm pretty sure they are a gay person forced into a heterosexual lifestyle be societal forces rather then a bisexual person. The fundemental thing is you are trying to use sexual labels to describe behavior (who they had sex with) when sexual labels actually describe a complex phenomenom of which behavior is only a small part. I've had sex with women, but I gaurentee you I was experimenting with what society expected and am not bisexual. I also gaurentee you I never chose to be gay.


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"I am eternally free"


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: tomk]
    #3278008 - 10/26/04 11:10 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ok..i may know nothing about genetics.

what you are getting into with pressure and these sad stories and all that crap, it's kind of irrelevant to what i'm trying to say and what the original post was about.

Quote:

I've had sex with women, but I gaurentee you I was experimenting with what society expected and am not bisexual.



so you're saying your heterosexual 'experimentation' wasn't a choice...? you are almost contradicting yourself. saying one can CHOOSE to be hetero for a while, but then really be homo and vice-versa.


let's go back to the original post. other animals have also been known to be homo...without all these sad stories of life and society's pressure. [tear]
can that be considered a genetic defect or no?


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: felix]
    #3278732 - 10/26/04 06:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

He's saying the actual act of sex does not determine sexual orientation.

But rather one's inherit desires

A gay guy, who is paid to have sex with a woman, does not suddenly become bisexual


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/13/02
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Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: Phluck]
    #3278784 - 10/26/04 06:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Seems perfectly reasonable when you have a basic understanding of genetics.

Just because you pass on a gene, doesn't necessarily mean the gene has an effect on you. For instance, maybe you're born with curly hair, but neither of your parents have curly hair... but you might have an uncle somewhere with curly hair or something.




Ja, and that definitely makes sense. :wink:

However, the gene would still create a disadvantage for survival of that genetic line.. say the particular gene becomes active in every one of four offspring, or something, and with that one offspring, there is a zero percent chance of further reproduction.....

Of course, this still perfectly allows for the survival of the genetic line, especially since it is probable that less than one out of four would have it...

But anyways, all I'm saying is that said genetic line would still have a disadvantage.... that is, of course, if that is where homosexuality stems from... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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Offlinekbilly
earthwalker

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Homosexuality and its Cause(s) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3280072 - 10/27/04 12:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

the reason why the gay gene does not get bred out as you would expect is that women with this gene have MORE kids, than women without it, making up for the sons who wont have any. very recent research.
hence the gene can be passed along.


Edited by kbilly (10/27/04 12:14 AM)


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