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InvisibletrendalM
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Example: Israel's War on Terror
    #2861289 - 07/06/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This question is mainly for those of you who think the best way to fight terrorism is through military power.

What do you think about the example of Israel's war on terror? Israel has been fighting this war almost since its (the state of Israel) creation...yet the terror attacks continue. Increased military action on Israel's part has been met with more and more terror attacks on Israeli citizens. Israel has a habit of "punishing" the Palestinian people for the actions of the terrorists with attacks on Palestinian housing, religious centers, ect.

By far, there have been more innocent civillian deaths in the USA's war on terror than there have been deaths of the terrorists themselves...so I think a comparrison is easy to make between these two "wars".

So, the question begs to be asked, what makes you think that the use of military action against the populations which produce terrorists will cause a halt to the terrorist actions?


--------------------
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What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861316 - 07/06/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

what makes you think that the use of military action against the populations which produce terrorists will cause a halt to the terrorist actions?




Sitting and doing nothing didn't seem to work. That's basically what the world has done. Isreal is not only fighting terrorism but it's own existance is at stake. They HATE Isreal, not because of it's policies, rather it's existance as a people. The radical muslims/Palastinians want them to die for being Isreali. Nothing more. This is why I say that we shouldn't try to figure out the WHY's of the terrorist movement. They HATE us because we are not them. We, as America, are able to bring the fight to them, unlike Isreal. Sure they go into palastinian lands to retaliate but that is generaly local in the scope of things. I support the war on terrorists not because it's a Bush generated war or whatever people will call it, rather it makes fucking sense.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (07/06/04 02:00 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2861327 - 07/06/04 02:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Sitting and doing nothing didn't seem to work.

I am certainly not suggesting that we sit around and do nothing! However I don't think that fighting terror with terror will lead to anything but more terrorists.

So..."they" hate "us" because "we" are not "them"?

Does that logic flow the other way, as well? Do you hate "them" because they are not "you"?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2861334 - 07/06/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Also, the fact remains that despite an almost complete control of Palestinian land...Israel has been unable to stop the terrorists attacks against its own people though the use of military force.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2861359 - 07/06/04 02:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sitting and doing nothing didn't seem to work.



If ONLY we sat and did nothing! Our interventionist policies were without doubt the most critical reason for ALL the attacks against us.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861360 - 07/06/04 02:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Does that logic flow the other way, as well?




I'd say with some, yes. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near the majority, unless ofcourse you're talking about the extremist muslims, which happen to be quite a few. These are the people that are ruining "OUR" world. The war is NOT against muslims, or their religion, rather those that would cause terror.


--------------------

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861368 - 07/06/04 02:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Israel has been unable to stop the terrorists attacks against its own people though the use of military force.




you are of course assuming that all of these attacks are done by the Palastinians. Fighting terrorism isn't an easy thing to do. What do you think would happen to Isreal if they anounced that they are giving all the palastinian lands back, want to sign a peace treaty and will no longer fight back? I say they would still get bombed.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2861371 - 07/06/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

If ONLY we sat and did nothing! Our interventionist policies were without doubt the most critical reason for ALL the attacks against us.




perhaps, and perhaps not. Is that justification? I still stand by what I said earlier "they hate us because we aren't them."


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861375 - 07/06/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Just like when we weren't fighting terrorism with military force the terrorists NEVER attacked us except with the WTC bombing, the USS Cole... oh and 9/11 wasn't just an attack against American ideals.. we ... we killed osama's baby with a missle... right...


They attack us because they hate our freedom, NO ONE! NOT A ONE SHOULD CHANGE THEMSELVES TO APPEASE ANOTHER


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2861378 - 07/06/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No I'm not assuming that "all" of the attacks are carried out by Palestinians...only that some are (and I would propose that most are).

So: if use of military force against terrorism does work, how do you explain the continued attacks on Israeli citizens by Palestinians?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861381 - 07/06/04 02:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Hate


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2861384 - 07/06/04 02:20 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Just like when your government wasn't over in the Middle East meddling with the governments (dictators) and populace....there were no terrorists attacks on America :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2861386 - 07/06/04 02:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Hate is not a spontaneous emotion. Everyting has a cause in our universe.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861391 - 07/06/04 02:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Do you believe that because the US "meddled" with "dictators and populace" justifies the death of Americans? All I am saying is that it is not our fault terrorists attack us. You can't say that the terrorist attacks on the USA were deserved because whatever rationale is used to justify thei r jihad is obviously something diluted and mushroom induced...


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2861393 - 07/06/04 02:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ignorance is the cause of most all hate


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861406 - 07/06/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

how do you explain the continued attacks on Israeli citizens by Palestinians?




it's common knowledge that palastinians/muslims don't particularily like the Isreali's, why? That's something you'll have to go back thgousands of years for an exact reason. I'm guessing it's because they have different beliefs. Thay HATE them because they don't follow their religion.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2861413 - 07/06/04 02:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No I am definitely not trying to justify the deaths of anyone. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion after reading any of my posts.

Now think of this: you are, rightly so, angry that the terrorists have attacked your country (I would be!) and killed many innocent civilians. So your government decides to retaliate against the terrorists by bombing and then taking over two sovereign countries. In doing so, your government has killed well over 10,000 innocent civilians in those countries. How do you think the family members of those people feel? Just as it is not "your" fault that the terrorists attacked you...it is not the Iraqi/Afghanistani people's fault that their dictator governments are involved with the terrorists. So how do they feel, now? Do you think they might be, just a little, angry over the losses of their family members and countrymen?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861414 - 07/06/04 02:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The world we live in is corrupt and growing more and more corrupt; if you want to change something you have to be hardcore and kick some ass. You can't fuck around with what's politically correct or the distorted "right way" because that's all bullshit. Look at World War II if the USA pussied out then and didnt carry out crucial attacks because of "civilians" could be hurt.. well, europe would be a fucked up place to be right now.. samel as with the atomic bombings in Japan.. what my government is doing is for the safety of its people


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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2861417 - 07/06/04 02:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ok: so even if it is motivated by nothing more than a profound racial hatred...do you still think the answer is a continous war? Obviously war on terror is only breeding more terror (and thus more war)...so how long do we keep this up?

Have we come to a point where war is to be an eternal part of the international community?

Welcome to 1984...


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
    #2861421 - 07/06/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The war between Isreal/Palestine will not end until the end of the world.. I'm tired of this debate... neither side will change the view of the other.. as is already obvious.. I'm gone to go play some Battlefield 1942


Edited by ld50negative1 (07/06/04 02:44 PM)


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