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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: GazzBut]
#2893740 - 07/15/04 02:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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GazzBut said: Quote:
Neo-cons and leftists seem to think it works.
You do realise all this slap dash labelling of people is actually a shortcut to real thinking dont you?
I think many realize that those who object to labels are often those most accurately described by those very same labels.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: st0nedphucker]
#2896017 - 07/16/04 03:35 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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What in your humble opinion :P would have been an acceptable method of punishment?
stringent weapons inspections, sanctions on all materials that can be used to produce weapons. This may not seem like much of a punishment but it would have contained the imaginary threat Iraq supposedly posed to the west whilst preventing the humanitarian disaster that sanctions caused. Perhaps you have some need for revenge and punishment that can only be satisfied by the deaths of thousands of innocent children. If so you have my pity.
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but not only is it against international law its murder.
Oh so directly murdering the person who is responsible for our wrath is bad but indirectly killing thousands of people who are not responsible, whilst leaving our primary target relatively unaffected is good. Are you sure about that?
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Sanctions are a neccessary tool of any state. How is the international community supposed to apply diplomatic pressure on a country that violates UN Resolutions, threatens its neighbours or abuse human rights?
So can I take it you support the immediate introduction of sanctions against Israel? Anyway Im not saying sanctions should not be used Im just saying they should not be used in the way they were in Iraq.
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The thousands upon thousands you speak of wouldn't have died, their blood is on his hands.
You really think the west hold no responsibility? Unbelievable.
question: Do you think it is coincidence that the country with last great oil reserve gets manipulated into a war which allows the west to enforce sanctions which cripple the country and prevent it profiting from the massive potential income it holds in oil and becoming the new saudi arabia? Do you think its coincidence that 12 years later multiple intelligence agencies manage to fuck up monumentally allowing the US/UK to invade and establish firm control over how the massive reserve of oil is dealt with?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Innvertigo]
#2896028 - 07/16/04 03:49 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually I believe Iraq got off easy, what better "penalty" to have then to stay in power and get aid to your country at the same time.
WTF??? Yeah 1 million dead...what a great advertisment for western aid.
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We did not starve people no matter how badly you want to believe it.
Hmmm Inny or UNICEF..who to believe, thats a toughie.
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I fail to see how anyone who is thinking in a clear and unbiased fashion cannot recognise that the Saddam must take a large part of the responsibility for the deaths that occured during the sanctions.
I think that the responsibility for the deaths caused by sanctions should be shared between the west and Saddam. I think any neutral observer would come to that conclusion.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Posts: 4,773
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Evolving]
#2896031 - 07/16/04 03:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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how do you verbally describe a flower to someone without the labels for color or the labels of numbers to signify the quantities of petals?
Thats not the point. What im saying is that alot of people on here will look at an idea or a point of view, see if they can try and match it with a label and then decide their reaction to the original idea.
That is a shortcut to thinking.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: GazzBut]
#2896088 - 07/16/04 04:54 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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WTF??? Yeah 1 million dead...what a great advertisment for western aid.
this pertains to nothing I've said. Your blame is pointed the wrong way. Quote:
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We did not starve people no matter how badly you want to believe it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmm Inny or UNICEF..who to believe, thats a toughie.
it seems you only read and interpret what you want instead of what is actually being said, i'm not surprised. Saddam is responsible for the deaths of these people. You, for some reason or another, keep overlooking the fact that Saddam isolated specific groups from support and went to war with them. I'm sure those deaths were our fault.
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I think that the responsibility for the deaths caused by sanctions should be shared between the west and Saddam. I think any neutral observer would come to that conclusion.
you are anything but neutral and hold a strong bias towards the west. That is and always has been apparant.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Stein
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 35,129
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
#2896136 - 07/16/04 05:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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trendal said: Ok: so even if it is motivated by nothing more than a profound racial hatred...do you still think the answer is a continous war? Obviously war on terror is only breeding more terror (and thus more war)...so how long do we keep this up?
Im sorry this quote goes back to the first page, but I had to comment.
So obviously war on terror is breeding more terror? Really? Seriously? America has been pretty safe since 911. I think the war on terror is a step in the right direction in securring our safety in our homeland.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Stein]
#2896146 - 07/16/04 05:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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So obviously war on terror is breeding more terror? Really? Seriously? America has been pretty safe since 911. I think the war on terror is a step in the right direction in securring our safety in our homeland.
I agree as long as this war on terror (which I support) does not take away any individual rights we Americans enjoy. The Patriot Act and other privacy invading programs need to be stopped or this war on terror will turn into the "war on anyone with a differing opinion".
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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st0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: GazzBut]
#2896186 - 07/16/04 06:36 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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stringent weapons inspections
.....
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sanctions on all materials that can be used to produce weapons.
More reasonable I guess. Still this would have had a minimal effect on our 'primary target' or his regime. Sanctions are designed to cause economic instability this in turn leads to social unrest and hopefully a shift in direction. Look at Libya or South Africa sanctions have led to significant policy changes in these countries.
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This may not seem like much of a punishment but it would have contained the imaginary threat Iraq supposedly posed to the west whilst preventing the humanitarian disaster that sanctions caused.
I agree. Not with your suggested 'punishment' but the humantarian crisis was avoidable, if Saddam had played by the books he could have avoided the sanctions quite easily.
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Oh so directly murdering the person who is responsible for our wrath is bad but indirectly killing thousands of people who are not responsible, whilst leaving our primary target relatively unaffected is good. Are you sure about that?
No, I said nothing of the sort.
I was asking your opinion-
Is it right to kill someone to stop them killing a hundred people? If so; Is it right to kill someone who has killed 100 people?
Besides that murdering Saddam could have easily caused more problems than leaving him alive would have. Political instability rival factions vying for power even civil war, imagine the outcry if this had happened.
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So can I take it you support the immediate introduction of sanctions against Israel? Anyway Im not saying sanctions should not be used Im just saying they should not be used in the way they were in Iraq.
I don't think I know enough about the situation there to answer that. In regards to the sanctions on Iraq it would seem we are finally getting somewhere, the sanctions prohibited Iraq importing/exporting anything other than food and medical supplies, oh the humanity. Furthermore, you keep mentioning how the Oil Foor Food program wasn't launched until 1995 yet in 1991 the UN partially lifted the sanctions to allow Iraq to exchange its oil revenue for humatarian purposes.
It's not like Saddam didn't have the oppurtunity to feed his own people.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: st0nedphucker]
#2896502 - 07/16/04 09:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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if Saddam had played by the books he could have avoided the sanctions quite easily. What are these "books" of which you speak? You do know TWO of the guys who ran the oil for food program resigned in protest at the genocidal sanctions policy? They blamed the west - not Saddam. Think the guys who ran the oil for food program might have a better idea of what was happening than you? Political instability rival factions vying for power.. Isn't this happening right now? the sanctions prohibited Iraq importing/exporting anything other than food and medical supplies, oh the humanity Not quite as simple as that stoned. Read the statements of the two guys who resigned in disgust.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: GazzBut]
#2896506 - 07/16/04 09:58 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmmm Inny or UNICEF..who to believe, thats a toughie.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Stein
Stranger
Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 35,129
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Xlea321]
#2896553 - 07/16/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alex123 said: if Saddam had played by the books he could have avoided the sanctions quite easily.
What are these "books" of which you speak?
I think he means those same books that say America went to war without permission from the UN. I think it's somewhere towards the back.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Xlea321]
#2896649 - 07/16/04 10:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Stein]
#2897284 - 07/16/04 02:12 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think he means those same books that say America went to war without permission from the UN. I think it's somewhere towards the back.
Ah I see...it's the book Saddam must play by but Governor Bush must not.
Sounds reasonable enough...
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: Stein]
#2898151 - 07/16/04 07:18 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Really? Seriously? America has been pretty safe since 911. I think the war on terror is a step in the right direction in securring our safety in our homeland.
Al Qaeda's ranks are swelling, worldwide, in "response" to the actions of the US government in the middle east (which they are claiming is a "response" to terrorism). The world is becoming a much more dangerous place, almost by the day, I think. That's not even touching on the frightening erosion of some of our society's most basic "freedoms"...most of which we (ok not "we"...our governments) claim to be fighting for in the first place!
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: trendal]
#4895274 - 11/04/05 07:45 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes the plague of Islamic Fascism keeps on spreading, but the world is awakening to it.
"When the American public is still bickering over WMDs rather than relieved that the culprit for the first World Trade Center bombing can no longer find official welcome in Baghdad; or when our pundits seem more worried about Halliburton than the changes in nuclear attitudes in Libya and Pakistan; or when the media mostly ignores a greater percentage of voters turning out for a free national election in the heart of the ancient caliphate than during most election years in the United States ? something has gone terribly, tragically wrong here at home. " Victor Davis Hanson
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: Example: Israel's War on Terror [Re: lonestar2004]
#4895573 - 11/04/05 09:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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What does that silly NO looter have to do with France rioting or Islamic fundamentalism?
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