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Offlinerhizo
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Registered: 10/31/02
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War people, why do you support the war?
    #1401391 - 03/22/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

so why do you support the war?


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


Edited by rhizo (03/22/03 08:33 PM)


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401425 - 03/22/03 08:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Why are you proudly displaying a picture of a mass murderer?


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Offlinerhizo
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1401445 - 03/22/03 08:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

would it be any better if it was bush?





--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401463 - 03/22/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Bush would not kill or torture you for speaking out against him. We all know what Saddam would do.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Offlinerhizo
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1401468 - 03/22/03 08:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

ok, i respect your opinion. may i ask why you support the war?


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401494 - 03/22/03 08:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I wont recap everything I have said but to me this is just the long overdue conclusion to desert storm. The terms of the cease fire were never abided by which negates the cease fire and thus this is the logical conclusion. I don't believe in the possibility of a utopian society. At least not without a few hundred-thousand more years of evolution. I think that is one of the main differences between the two sides. I am a realist. Besides since the international community did nothing to charge Saddam with the attempted murder of a former president of the US, we have the right. I have my doubts and concerns about this war but I have no problem taking out Saddam.. The markets are doing very well since this began and that is good for US economy, and that in turn is good for the world economy. And that is all good for oil producing countries.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401583 - 03/22/03 09:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Who the hell is that a picture of anyways? One of Saddam's doubles?



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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1401604 - 03/22/03 09:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i think it's a clone


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401626 - 03/22/03 10:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Saddam Hussein is a hero.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Zahid]
    #1401656 - 03/22/03 11:01 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Long live Saddam!!!


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1401682 - 03/22/03 11:21 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I don't believe in the possibility of a utopian society. At least not without a few hundred-thousand more years of evolution.




Look how far we have progressed in a mere 300 years. The rate of change is accelerating, IMO we will either radically alter our social structures alot sooner than you think or we will terminate our own existence.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1401724 - 03/23/03 12:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think we will learn to colonize other planets and be back to a colonial style of life.


and there will still be war. Even if everyone who might possibly hurt anyone suddenly died, there would be one born who would seek to dominate and he would dominate because there would be noone left with the will to fight.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (03/23/03 12:14 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1401800 - 03/23/03 01:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Nah, doesn't seem to work that way. After decades of propaganda encouraging people to despise and fear the poor and vulnerable, hate their neighbours and live only for selfish greed what Bush and the corporations still find utterly bewildering is why the majority of people always seem to have compassion and want to help each other. It's something human beings have deeply ingrained in their natures. Take away the corporations and Bush forcing hate down everyones throats and I think the future is bright.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineAbsolut_B
Just some guy

Registered: 01/26/03
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: rhizo]
    #1401817 - 03/23/03 01:27 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

While your photo was creative, it had no base in reality. This is not about oil. Let me say it again: This is NOT about oil. France is the country with the largest oil contracts with the murdering Iraqi leadership. Wonder why they're against Iraqi being a free nation when they receive the rewards of Saddam's horrible rule?

Why am I for the war? Simple, I love my life and I don't feel like living in a world where my life may be randomly taken away from me because I'm American or not Islamic. Let's look at the war from three ways. First, what actual immediate harm does Saddam offer against the US and other nations with notions of liberty? At the moment he offers little harm, however that could soon change. We can not reasonably expect to know if he has so called WMD. But, for a killer like Saddam to remain in power he must instill fear in his enemies. The logical step of inspiring fear in other nations is to have better weapons. From his point of view it would be stupid to not develop chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons.

Secondly, consider the actual people of Iraq who are not members of the bathe party. They could be killed by the thousands, as happened in the late 80's. More likely they will be deprived of vital components to become more modernized. Literacy rates keep dropping, as uneducated masses are much easier to control. Education is needed for the future of Iraq. Also the standard of living is low. When infact mortality rates rise and life expectancy drops because of such a theiving dictators it is the same as murder, except Saddam saves cash on the bullets. If Iraq became a republic that instituted respect for basic individual rights the immense wealth of their oil reserves could be used to build a diversified economy for the future. The oil won't flow forever.

Lastly consider the future of the region. This is not a direct reason for war, but it is a healthy bi-product. A free Iraq will not support terrorism. A free Iraq will show the rest of the Islamic and Arab nations what liberty means. When an example of a government built on ideas of liberty is that close to home, other citizens can see that governments don't have to exist with religious or ethnic ties.

These are some of the many reasons I support our war in Iraq, but all of them are secondary to one premise. The president must act as cheif executive and protect American people and property when he sees danger. There does not have to be a smoking gun when a nation makes it clearly known that they want US civilans dead. By dismantling Iraq president Bush will show the world that not only does the US have the military might to defend its people, but it also has the will.

The fact the Bush Jr. is an idiot does come to mind, and maybe he isn't doing everything for the right reasons, but that does not mean the action is unjust or immoral. I hate Bush, yet support the war. I have friends in the military who don't like Bush, but they would gladly serve if called up. He is doing his job in this instance.

I offer another question to those who do not support the war. What should we do? If someone comes up to you and points a gun in your face do you not act because he hasn't shot you yet? Answers I don't want to hear: Violence brings on more violence. This didn't happen in the cold war where a military standoff and buildup ended peacefully. As far as appeasement goes, as the older Polish people how that worked out after the Munich talks.

Blood for oil is so baseless I hardly feel the need to talk about it. If it is a matter of saving lives a nice little mathmatical equation can throw that out the window when the future lives of Iraqi and US(along with other free nations i.e. Canada, U.K., France, etc) will be saved.

So I ask you, what would you do as the leader of the free world, if you TRUELY wanted to protect your nation and allies in the long term?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Absolut_B]
    #1401825 - 03/23/03 01:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

So I ask you, what would you do as the leader of the free world, if you TRUELY wanted to protect your nation and allies in the long term?

Stop funding and selling chemical weapons to Saddam in the first place.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1401838 - 03/23/03 01:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Right and that is why from the start of life animals and men have waged war for the dominance of the tribe, heard, and pride.

But yes human compasion also runs deep.

Maybe they are somehow hopelessly intertwined.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAbsolut_B
Just some guy

Registered: 01/26/03
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1401851 - 03/23/03 01:52 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Stop funding and selling chemical weapons to Saddam in the first place.




That was then, this is now. I can't and won't defend many of America's past actions as we have made many mistakes. Still, no offense to you personally, but this is the typical response I receive when I present my case. I'm looking for a non-evasive straight answer and would honestly like those who disagree with me to put forward a concise and better plan. Elements such as political science and philosophy would be nice. This is a question of good or bad, and basicly a question of morality. Every position should be based on some moral code. What sort of moral code and resulting action ought to be used?

p.s. Free stick of doublement to the first person who gives me a good answer, but of course you'll have to drive to my house to pick it up. Winterfresh may be substituted in case of my doublemint consumption.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Absolut_B]
    #1401894 - 03/23/03 02:47 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That was then, this is now. [...] Elements such as political science and philosophy would be nice.


You're most definitely a champion of contradiction. You want to build the discussion on moral and philosophical bases? What about this philosophical metaphor:

If I drop a shit on your face, can I, just moments after I wiped my ass, kick your ass for being so dirty and stinky?

By saying "That was then, this is now", you're answering this question by a "yes".
Brilliant philosophy.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Aldous]
    #1401900 - 03/23/03 02:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That would depend on if your shit stinks or not.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1401958 - 03/23/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Right and that is why from the start of life animals and men have waged war for the dominance of the tribe, heard, and pride.

Well don't try and bring animals into this. I've never heard of animals invading Iraq.

And for the bulk of human history we lived in small hunter-gatherer groups of around 30 based around mutual co-operation, equality and sharing. Bullying and disregarding everyone else's opinion doesn't work in small groups - your hunting efficiency is compromised unless everyone is content to play their part and you rapidly die out.

Only with the beginning of agriculture and the hoarding of food did certain people realise they needed armies and police to protect them.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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