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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3075283 - 08/31/04 06:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

what behavior does the left champion that falls outside of your moral code??? i dont think anyone on the left wants to legalize murder or rape. Religion does cause more trouble than its worth almost all active conflicts on this earht are a result of religion. if there was no organized relgion things would not be perfect but i believe they would be better

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3075308 - 08/31/04 06:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


whose religion should we adopt this "moral compass" from?

I am not advocating that all Americans believe(or be forced to
believe) the same thing. But, the extreme Left is so antagonistic
towards institutions of anything(religious, governmental, moral,
monetary, etc..) that they have brought about an attitude of
rebellion for rebellion's sake. This leads to a shaky moral
relativism which is not good for society in my opinion.

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3075312 - 08/31/04 06:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

you haven't given me one example of something immoral being pushed by the left. you keep using this morality agreement but how are we to decide what is moral? example i love listening to howard stern in the morning, christian loonies and others find him immoral. should his free speech and my right to listen be restricted because some folks hold different morals than myself?

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3075329 - 08/31/04 06:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


what behavior does the left champion that falls outside of your moral
code??? i dont think anyone on the left wants to legalize murder or
rape.

The extreme Left does not champion making murder and rape legal, but
they revel in the destruction of tradition and convention. When
morality or something that attempts to instill morality
is attacked, it is not too hard to predict that people's behaviors
will be less restrained and more apt to cause problems for their
fellow citizens.

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3075335 - 08/31/04 07:06 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

provide one fucking example, jesus christ stop generalizing ...what traditions are the left tearing down?? if you have examples, break it out

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3075361 - 08/31/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


you haven't given me one example of something immoral being pushed by
the left.

When it comes to morals, the Left doesn't necessarily push immoral
things, but they pursue things which ALLOW immoral things to happen
more frequently.

Also, the Left seems to be enamored by utopias(making the world
into a perfect place). One way that they have gone about
trying to make things "better" is by heavily controlling the
populace(income redistribution, gun control, political correctness,
etc....). Some of the lengths that they have gone to in order
to impose this "utopian progressiveness" has been immoral in my
opinion.


you keep using this morality agreement but how are we to decide what
is moral?

That is the most important question that has ever been considered
by Man. What is truly Right and Wrong? What should individuals
strive for? If there is no understandable and concrete Right and
Wrong, why should we expect people to follow a certain way of
life if its "correctness" cannot be verified?

The extreme extreme Left(which I consider to be nihilism) is a
rejection of everything because nothing can be proven. Unfortunately,
I am a nihilist theist(if that makes any sense). It is a
contradictory existence. I don't think anything can be proven and
therefore nothing can be followed with any amount of assurance.
However, I do believe in a Creator that is superior to me and
who does have a Will that should be followed. I am just incapable
of understanding what this Will is. So, some of my thoughts fall
to the extreme Left, which is kind of ironic.

If the human race is allowed freedom, it repeatedly decays and
is reborn. If the human race is controlled, life will be safe but
some of its members will be miserable. I constantly try to figure out
how I feel about enforcing certain codes of behavior on people,
because as I said, I cannot fathom what God's Will is and therefore
I have no proof of what is Right and Wrong. Because of that I
find it difficult to justify the enforcement of moral and legal
codes.

However, some amount of agreement on permissible conduct makes things
go smoother. So, for the sake of peace and security, I am willing
to accept the idea that moral codes can make things better, and
when I see moral codes being attacked for no reason other than
rebellion for rebellion's sake, I become annoyed.

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3075376 - 08/31/04 07:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

still you fail to provide one issue or specific item you feel the left is attacking!!!!!!

the left doesnt care what u believe, we do care about u keeping your illogical religous beliefs out of politics (like in the constitution). christians especially have a history of pushing their beliefs on people through violence or missionaries.also if people actually were more concerned with what we can prove and advancing science, the world would be a better place

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3075385 - 08/31/04 07:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
still you fail to provide one issue or specific item you feel the left is attacking!!!!!!

the left doesnt care what u believe, we do care about u keeping your illogical religous beliefs out of politics (like in the constitution). christians especially have a history of pushing their beliefs on people through violence or missionaries.also if people actually were more concerned with what we can prove and advancing science, the world would be a better place




The ironic thing is that even if he could find a recent example, it would be largely irrelevant as the major social conventions conservatives hold so dear today are relatively new. The nuclear family model for example, sexuality, religion, etc.

Also I am reminded of the RWE line, "A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds".


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: retread]
    #3075451 - 08/31/04 07:55 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

retread said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Then the whack-os that do that can meet the Uday and Qusay Reeducation Plan.:confused:




If these people insist on acting that way, we'll just kill them. So far the Allahcrowd has tried to blow up one building, quite unsucessfully, and killed about three thousand people. We've turned two arab dictatorships into freeer countries. We've removed the Taliban from power, we've got Iran to say that they won't be building nukes, we've removed Saddam from power. Afghanistan isn't a terrorist training camp nation anymore. They can keep on killing us with their whimpy little IED's and  terrorist tactics, and we'll keep on hitting them with a sledgehammer. We'll see who wins.



Yes, we shall see(or maybe we won't).  Note that I never said I was against fighting the terrorists.  I simply suggested that our tactics include a re-evaluation of our foreign policy in the Middle East(and elsewhere).

Quote:

Quote:


Who's talking about surrender?  I'm talking about sensible foreign policy which we should have been following all along.




What is more sensible than trying to help a nation that the UN chartered on land legally given to them, exist without women blowing themselves up on busses? Are we taking the moral low ground here?



First of all, what gives the UN the legal authority to give a piece of land already inhabited by other people to a bunch of newcomers, most of whom had never even visited that land before?  Second, how is it taking the moral low ground to stop using money forcefully taken from taxpayers to fund another nation's massive army?  Third, why is it sensible to help Israelis live without suicide bombers, but not sensible to help Palestinians live without having their houses bulldozed and their families shot?

Quote:

Quote:


In the event that we are chasing down a known terrorist in a foreign country which refuses to hand them over, then military force might be justified, which is why I wasn't entirely against the war in Afghanistan(even though it did leave us with a costly long-term occupation to carry out). 




Good thing you weren't entirely against going into the beehive and trying to find the queen. More American imperialism? If you are against the war in Afghanistan, I don't know what more I can say to you. It's like trying to describe the sun to a blind man, you don't see the reality and you never will. Isn't it time for indocttrination class again?



Well, we didn't so much go into the beehive as much as we just smacked it with a baseball bat.  We killed quite a few bees, but the others have dispersed, and they're pissed.  Oh, and btw, unless you know something the rest of us don't, we have yet to find the queen bee.

Quote:

Quote:


It would make sense, however, to stop supporting a country like Israel, which has become to great a liability to us.




Do the wrong thing to cut our losses? Great idea. The more we give into the terrorist demands, teh more demands they will have. Geez, they are kidnapping FRENCH people with demands now. If we keep giving into their demands, we'll end up living under the Shah.



It is not the wrong thing to stop initiating force against taxpayers to fund the military of a nation that many of them oppose.  I believe Thomas Jefferson said it best:

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."

Quote:

Quote:


If it did get invaded by Arabs(which, while possible, is certainly not a foregone conclusion, especially given their strong military), we could provide refugee status to those who chose to flee.  It would also help if we could distance ourselves from the Saudi royal family, one of the most hated regimes in the Middle East.  This is not to give in to the terrorists, but to show the other Muslims that the terrorists are wrong about us, thus discrediting them and making them easier targets among a population more willing to help us.



Well if it's one thing that terrorist respond well to, it's sensible plans that include them getting what they want.



It is what most of the Muslim world wants, not just the terrorists.  To refrain from doing the right thing simply because terrorists want us to do it would be foolish.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3076027 - 08/31/04 10:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


still you fail to provide one issue or specific item you feel the
left is attacking!!!!!!

Are you not listening? My point is that by being overly hostile to
religion and authority in general, the extreme Left has instilled a
cynicism and a rejectionist attitude in a lot of people. This
attitude permeates certain aspects of American culture. This
attitude is obvious in your and other people's posts. I have
met many many people who have the exact same opinions that you do,
which makes me think that this whole attitude is widespread.

But, just to satisfy your demand on giving a specific example, I
list the following:

1. The ACLU's absolute hatred of any type of Christian display.


the left doesnt care what u believe, we do care about u keeping your
illogical religous beliefs out of politics

Why can't the Left keep their illogical social utopian beliefs
out of politics? Why do they insist upon taking my money away
from me and giving it to people who did nothing to earn it? I live
in a rural area that could be termed "white trash". So many people
around here have kids that they can't support and do nothing to
ever become self-sufficient. They live in public subsidized housing,
get free medical care for a lot of stuff, get food stamps every
month, and if they do work they get amazing tax breaks or giveaways.


christians especially have a history of pushing their beliefs on
people through violence or missionaries.

A perfect example of Leftist thought. Because America has a solid
history of Christianity, that is seen as the traditional and powerful
religious institution in this country. Therefore, it is to
be attacked.

Radical Islam has been by far responsible for more violence in
recent years than any other religion. But, because Islam is
not the "powerful entity" that Christianity is in America, it
does not receive near the ire because it is not seen as the "main"
entrenched powerful institution. Whatever is viewed as powerful
is automatically viewed as bad.

EVERY group has a history of trying to impose their beliefs upon
the rest of the world. Does the Left not affect the world(and
people's rights) when they demand affirmative action(people who
are white and who have higher test scores are passed over for
minorities who have lower test scores), when they take money away
from people and give it to other people, or when they restrict my
gun rights?



if people actually were
more concerned with what we can prove and advancing science, the
world would be a better place

Where has the focus on science gotten us? Living in a ultra-
materialistic society with a high crime rate. If there is no moral
underpinning in a society, bad things will happen.

Edited by RandalFlagg (08/31/04 10:43 PM)

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: unbeliever]
    #3076037 - 08/31/04 10:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


The ironic thing is that even if he could find a recent example, it
would be largely irrelevant as the major social conventions
conservatives hold so dear today are relatively new. The nuclear
family model for example, sexuality, religion, etc.


I am in no way supporting the classic "conservative" desires for
America. I am not demanding that people be straight, married,
all be of the same faith, etc... I just think that the Left has
taken ahold of a lot of people's thinking(just like the Right
has to some people), it has biased their view of things, and it
adversely affects America.

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Invisibleretread
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: silversoul7]
    #3076117 - 08/31/04 10:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Yes, we shall see(or maybe we won't). Note that I never said I was against fighting the terrorists. I simply suggested that our tactics include a re-evaluation of our foreign policy in the Middle East(and elsewhere).




You said you were barely for the war in Afghanistan. What more justification should we possibly need for a war? Should we have said "Thats it you bastards, just for 9/11 we'll not attack you, let you keep your money, arms, training places, and violent theocracy in palce, and we'll move out of Israel and stop supporting them! Take that!". I see low sucess rates in that path.
Quote:


First of all, what gives the UN the legal authority to give a piece of land already inhabited by other people to a bunch of newcomers, most of whom had never even visited that land before?




Are you expecting that I won't know that the land wasn't "Palestinean" territory before hand? That the british controlled it? Come on now, what is more prevalent throughout history than owning land due to military conquest. That was BRITISH land that they gave to the jews, and the arabs in trans-jordan etc. Seriously now.
Quote:


Second, how is it taking the moral low ground to stop using money forcefully taken from taxpayers to fund another nation's massive army?




That is a valid point.
Quote:


Third, why is it sensible to help Israelis live without suicide bombers, but not sensible to help Palestinians live without having their houses bulldozed and their families shot?




Israel doesn't target innocent Palestineans for random murder, Palestine does.
Quote:


Well, we didn't so much go into the beehive as much as we just smacked it with a baseball bat. We killed quite a few bees, but the others have dispersed, and they're pissed. Oh, and btw, unless you know something the rest of us don't, we have yet to find the queen bee.




I don't know exactly the percentage of Al Qieda camps, personnel or leadership that were destroyed. I know that analysing us NOT going into Afghanistan at all or the choice of going in with military force, the latter probably did much more damage to the enemy. I know that the personnel at Guantanemo Bay aren't going to bomb any buildings, I know that the jihadists in the caves that got bombed out of existance won't be hijacking any airplanes and I know that Afghanistan won't harbor terrorist training camps that put out people to execute non-combattants on video tape. We might not have won the battle in one fell swoop, but we put a pretty good hurting on them.
Quote:


It is not the wrong thing to stop initiating force against taxpayers to fund the military of a nation that many of them oppose. I believe Thomas Jefferson said it best:




For that reason, I'll agree. My libertarian views make me think that it's wrong to use our tax dollars to fund another nation. However, don't we SELL them F-16's and the like? If we produce a product and sell it to them, even for zero profit, we aren't funding them with taxpayer loot, so I'd be ok with that. Are you?

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3076147 - 08/31/04 11:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I understand what your trying to say. I'm agnostic and don't believe that a creator or supreme being is neccesary for morality.

(The rest is not really aimed at Randal Flagg)

It's quite obvious that there exists extreme hatred for Christians in this country. If you don't agree with their philosophy, then fine. But if they aren't infringing on your rights, what's the problem?

There have been instances where school kids weren't allowed to organize a voluntary prayer meeting in an isolated part of the school. Why the fuck not? I read a while back about some town (maybe in PA?)with a large Muslim population that was allowed to have the daily call to prayer broadcast on a city wide P.A. system. But a court house with a bible in front of it, that's been there 50 years, must be removed? If nothing else it's a part of our history that deserves recognition. Tearing down things that serve as little more than symbolic reminders is only going to exacerbate the problem.

This country, like it or not, was constructed around Christians beliefs and ideals. It permeates our entire history and culture. If you don't subscribe to those beliefs, great, I can't say I blaim you. But why such vicious hatred for them?

KOTT, I've seen you repeatedly badmouth and accuse Republicans of being racist and intolerant. Exactly how is your position any different?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3076926 - 09/01/04 04:14 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You really are misrepresenting the left. The left doesn't attack institutions such as religion, but demands, rightfully, that they don't have a role in policy-making. Politics and religion should be separate entities.

It is not Christianity which recieves "ire" from the left, it is policies drawn from religious beliefs.

Quote:

Radical Islam has been by far responsible for more violence in recent years than any other religion. But, because Islam is
not the "powerful entity" that Christianity is in America, it
does not receive near the ire because it is not seen as the "main"
entrenched powerful institution.




You miss the point. Islam has little influence in the west, its presence in the US and the UK is pretty benign. Islam is not lobbying for hysterical anti-gay laws, even though I'm sure there are many extreme muslims who would like to see them.

Personally, I think that Islam and Christianity, as institutions, are blights on the face of humanity. As religions, I have no problem with them.

I still don't know what "moral underpinning" you are looking for. You see, I think that having sweeping "principles" is too simplistic to make the best decisions. Things should be judged on a case-by-case basis, not put against the "moral compass" and then automatically thrown out/accepted. This is not through any kind of "hatred" of powerful institutions.

Quote:

when they demand affirmative action(people who
are white and who have higher test scores are passed over for
minorities who have lower test scores




This is indefensible, I agree. But equal opportunity laws (or whatever you call them in the US) do need to be enforced. "Positive" discrimination is certainly not the way forward.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: Phred]
    #3077249 - 09/01/04 07:29 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Regardless of what it labelled, the truth of the matter is that it is possible to greatly reduce the threat that terrorists present by eliminating them through capturing and/or killing them. Another way is to change the conditions which encourage terrorist recruitment.

What if your method for capturing and/or killing the terrorists is a recipe for even more terrorist recruitment? How can you expect to lessen terror if you knowingly breed more terror with your "anti-terror" actions?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: trendal]
    #3077309 - 09/01/04 08:04 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

trendal writes:

What if your method for capturing and/or killing the terrorists is a recipe for even more terrorist recruitment?

Tough beans. The point is to capture/kill them. If more arise, capture/kill them as well. I'm curious -- seeing as how Osama and his band of Merry Pranksters were holed up in Afghanistan with no intention of handing themselves over for trial, and seeing as how the Taliban had no interest in rounding them up and handing them over, just which method of capturing/killing them do you believe should have been employed? Be specific, please -- saying something like "I don't know, but it could have been done better," doesn't count.

How can you expect to lessen terror if you knowingly breed more terror with your "anti-terror" actions?

This is the whole reason why terrorism is such a difficult tactic to counter. Terrorists typically have no interest in defeating militarily their enemy -- they know their actions won't lead directly to any large-scale military victories. They're crazy, not stupid. The idea is to get the opponent to over-react through increasing security measures and suspending certain liberties at home and/or through using excessive force on the battlefield. This enables the terrorists to point out the "oppression of the people" by their opponent. They calculate that the oppressed will therefore rally to their cause. It worked quite nicely for them in Viet Nam, as just one example.

As for "knowingly" breeding more terrorists, no one knows the answer to that one. Are the new terrorists who have been inspired to join up more of a threat or less of a threat than the trained veterans and leaders killed or captured? Are they more numerous or less numerous? Can they bring more money into the coffers of the group than the cost of their training and upkeep?

Here's an extremely interesting article I came across recently. The author makes some very astute observations that few if any of the talking heads ever seem to consider.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lacey200408250834.asp

pinky


--------------------

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3077447 - 09/01/04 09:14 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

you are missingmy point i dont hate christians, hell my parents are sheep. i am most vocal against them because the far right ones seem to insist we take their beliefs into consideration when making public policy. i dont hear any other religions trying to force their assinine beliefs down my throat. believe me if jews or muslims were trying to force us into some sort of theocracy id vocally bash them also.

the alcu is just trying to get all religous symbols removed from government institutions. the constitution cleary states that religion should be SEPERATE from state. some of these far right chirstian assholes dont understand that. why cant they just practice their religion quietly and let the rest of us do what we want?? if they dont want abortions, they shouldnt have them. if they dont want stem cell research then dont have stem cell treatments..if they dont want "offensive material" on TV/radio then dont watch or listen. its pretty simple.

lastly your comment on radical islam killing people... wow so they are recently the killers? do u have any fucking clue how many native peoples christians have SLAUGHTERED throughout history??? what about crusades?? or how about recently when the christian serbs were massacring muslims in bosnia???

im not sticking up for islam..that religion is JUSt as crazy as the rest of em... there are very few religions that dont offend me. any asshole preaching a dogma where it excludes people or tells u to hate others is bullshit.

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3077510 - 09/01/04 09:46 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
the constitution cleary states that religion should be SEPERATE from state.



Really? Please quote the Constitutional clause which states that religion should be separate from state. By this logic, no men in service of the government should allow their conscience or morality if it is rooted in a religion to guide their decisions.

Most people have some form of religion, even leftist secularists have their dogma and articles of faith which they attempt to push on other people via the mechanisms of the state. Should this be allowed?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: deafpanda]
    #3077635 - 09/01/04 10:37 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


You really are misrepresenting the left. The left doesn't attack
institutions such as religion, but demands, rightfully, that they
don't have a role in policy-making. Politics and religion should be
separate entities.

The normal rational Left actually has some good points to get across,
and their consistent skepticism and dissent keeps everybody
questioning things - which is good. The extreme "loony" left does
attack religion viciously. And, this attitude of caustic hatred
towards authority or convention is harmful in my opinion...because
it has a tendency to spread and to cause problems.


It is not Christianity which recieves "ire" from the left, it is
policies drawn from religious beliefs.

True...the policies are what gets most of the Left mad. But, the extreme Left is hostile to religion period. In America
they are much more hostile to Christianity, because it is the
preeminent religion in the U.S.


Radical Islam has been by far responsible for more violence in recent
years than any other religion. But, because Islam is
not the "powerful entity" that Christianity is in America, it
does not receive near the ire because it is not seen as the "main"
entrenched powerful institution.



You miss the point. Islam has little influence in the west, its
presence in the US and the UK is pretty benign. Islam is not lobbying
for hysterical anti-gay laws

Radical Islam has great influence on our lives right now. There are
millions of Muslims who hate the West, and some of them are trying
to kill us. They have repeatedly attacked the U.S. and its interests,
and they don't always confine their attacks to military targets(
i.e. they kill innocent civilians). But, I see what you are saying.
The Christian political movement is much more powerful in the
U.S. than the Muslim political movement is.


I still don't know what "moral underpinning" you are looking for. You
see, I think that having sweeping "principles" is too simplistic to
make the best decisions.

Neither do I. Sweeping principles keep people in line, but they
don't allow dissent, which limits freedom. Dissent brings about
the decay of any morals that were held dear, and people are more
inclined to commit violent and despicable acts.

Edited by RandalFlagg (09/01/04 10:56 AM)

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Bush Suggests War on Terror Can't be Won [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3077672 - 09/01/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)


you are missingmy point i dont hate christians, hell my parents are
sheep. i am most vocal against them because the far right ones seem
to insist we take their beliefs into consideration when making public
policy.

All groups are trying to force their beliefs down our throats. This
includes the Left. The reason I singled out the Left to begin with
is because I was talking about the decay of moral behavior, which
I attribute to the Left.


the alcu is just trying to get all religous symbols removed from
government institutions.

Maybe. But, I also sense an undercurrent of hostility to Christianity
in the American Left's thinking(the ACLU seems to be decidedly
Leftish).


the constitution cleary states that religion should be SEPERATE from
state.

The Constitution also quite clearly says that the right to bear arms
will not be infringed. In fact, the Constitution says a lot of stuff
that is not obeyed by governmental officials today.


some of these far right chirstian assholes dont understand that. why
cant they just practice their religion quietly and let the rest of us
do what we want??

Because they are ideologues who think that they are right. They
want to impose their views upon the world in order to have it
fit what they believe is best. Every group that has an ideology
attempts to do this.


lastly your comment on radical islam killing people... wow so they
are recently the killers? do u have any fucking clue how many native
peoples christians have SLAUGHTERED throughout history??? what about
crusades?? or how about recently when the christian serbs were
massacring muslims in bosnia???

I am focusing on the present. I don't care what happened a thousand
years ago. True, every religion has been responsible for at
least one atrocity it seems. But, radical Islam is the biggest
religious threat to safety and security in the world today in my
opinion.

Hm...how do I summarize all of the stuff that I was trying to say?...
I don't buy into specific religious beliefs, but I think that the
Christian underpinning of the American nation kept people in line
when it came to bad behavior. I am not mad about Christianity
losing power in public life in America. I am mad about the increase
in bad behavior by people(greed, violence, laziness). I think
that the extreme Left's assault on Christianity has led to these
things. I can understand the extreme Left's desire to question
an authority and to desire absolute freedom of expression and
thought. But when Man gains too much freedom, and He does not
have a strong guiding influence(religion for example), society
will decay.

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