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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Absolut_B]
    #1410343 - 03/26/03 05:30 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Still nobody has given any other alternitives to the United States action




I did but you chose to ignore it!


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Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1410490 - 03/26/03 06:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sure he meant "sensible" alternatives.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefleshofgods
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Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 444
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1411254 - 03/26/03 11:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I just want to say this. In life, with something as trivial as a beehive on your front porch, almost everybody would destroy the whole hive so that they dont risk being stung by the bees that would remain if they only killed one. Why is it so hard to imagine the United States doing the same thing to protect its people. This type of thing has been going on for years and no protests, picket signs, web posts, or web pages have been able to stop a war. It is a lost cause. We can only accept our fate and everything that our government is doing right now. Your constant bitching about the war is not gonna make it better for anybody over there. The only thing you are going to accomplish is causing an annoyance to everyone that surrounds you and has to listen to your babble and alot of wasted time. Our country needs to do this or WE will be the ones dead and injured. In time of war a person must be selfish and fight for their own safety and freedom at any cost. Civilian casualties are always going to be a huge part of war and will cause controversy, but that isnt going to stop the people fighting from trying to kill who they want to kill. If a civilian is in the way of saddam then i say shoot the civilian and then shoot saddam when they drop to the ground. It is a small sacrafice for our own lives. You people need to realize that if we dont kill him, he will kill us. This isnt a game or some little cat fight. This is serious and will effect every one of us and our children. We need this problem solved by any means necessary!


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Holler!


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Offlinesirreal
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Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1411263 - 03/26/03 11:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

. You people need to realize that if we dont kill him, he will kill us. This isnt a game or some little cat fight. !





Do you really believe that? And if so , why do you believe that.

You sound a bit paranoid. How has saddam threatened your life?


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (03/26/03 11:56 AM)


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OfflineAbsolut_B
Just some guy

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 113
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1411294 - 03/26/03 12:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Good post which brings about another good point.  This conflict has constantly been looked at through a very narrow views.  Reports of a few marines dying and all of a sudden people think the war is lost.  How many people die every day as the result of car crashes, heart disease, cancer, or a minor afflection made worse by old age?  How many children die in Iraq every year from malnutrition, or preventable diseases?  How many children die in Japan(using a non-US example so I don't seem overly centered on America) from the same diseases?  The riches of the Iraqi(and other middle eastern nations) people are being used to build palaces.  This wealth needs to be privatized and taken away from the monarchy which never created it.  With a free economy Iraq can raise the standard of living, making lives longer and richer.  This war, although distructive and horrible in its nature, is needed and proper if you wish the best for the people of the US and Iraq.  Perspective is needed, and the large picture must be looked at. 

I don't think I'll respond anymore to this post as I answered Rhizo's very honest question, and I don't think my views are looked at too highly here.  Maybe I'll go over to OTD where more interesting posts are made, such as porn. :blush: 


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1411344 - 03/26/03 12:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You people need to realize that if we dont kill him, he will kill us.


That's a damn slippery slope you got there buddy, so who's next on our potenitial murderers list?



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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlinefleshofgods
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Registered: 03/13/03
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1411553 - 03/26/03 02:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

That's a damn slippery slope you got there buddy, so who's next on our potenitial murderers list?




can you honestly say that you dont believe that saddam is dangerous to our country? I am not in the wrong by feeling threatened by him. For CHRIST sakes he used chemical warfare on his own people. I think he is a bit of a murderer and that is one thing I dont want coming my way. So I say bomb them all to pieces. They are breeding hate over there and raising their children to hate the United States! Who wouldnt want to get rid of a man that congratulates the Taliban for killing all our fellow Americans! I think you would be whistling a different tune if you mother, father, son, or daughter was a part of the terrorist activity that took place on 9-11! You are not looking at it from the eyes of those trying to protect our people. Let me ask you a question. Do you want the government to turn its back on terrorist cells in the U.S.? Do you want them to stop looking for them and just let them run a rampage all over our great country? Well if you do then you are just as bad as the terrorists themselves. Saddam is a dangerous man doing nothing for his country and people, and our own and he needs to be taken out. He IS a murderer, thief, and is just as bad as the terrorists of 9-11!


--------------------
Holler!


Edited by fleshofgods (03/26/03 02:24 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1411581 - 03/26/03 02:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

can you honestly say that you dont believe that saddam is dangerous to our country?



Yes I can.

Quote:

I am not in the wrong by feeling threatened by him. For CHRIST sakes he used chemical warfare on his own people.



Exactly--his own people. He's not out here trying to kill us. Or at least he hasn't up until now.

Quote:

I think he is a bit of a murderer and that is one thing I dont want coming my way. So I say bomb them all to pieces. They are breeding hate over there and raising their children to hate the United States!



Gee, I wonder why they would hate a country that invades their country and kills a bunch of civilians in order to overthrow their leader...

Quote:

Who wouldnt want to get rid of a man that congratulates the Taliban for killing all our fellow Americans!



I wouldn't. He has a right to his opinion, no matter how fucked up it may be.

Quote:

I think you would be whistling a different tune if you mother, father, son, or daughter was a part of the terrorist activity that took place on 9-11! You are not looking at it from the eyes of those trying to protect our people. Let me ask you a question. Do you want the government to turn its back on terrorist cells in the U.S.?



No. If they are indeed terrorist cells.

Quote:

Do you want them to stop looking for them and just let them run a rampage all over our great country?



No, but I also don't want to sacrifice civil liberties in this country in the process.

Quote:

Well if you do then you are just as bad as the terrorists themselves.



Give me a fucking break...

Quote:

Saddam is a dangerous man doing nothing for his country and people, and our own and he needs to be taken out.



But why should we be the ones to do it?

Quote:

He IS a murderer, thief, and is just as bad as the terrorists of 9-11!



Maybe so, but not a direct threat to us.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (03/26/03 02:34 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1411649 - 03/26/03 03:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

silversoul7, every one of your answers reads exactly like those given by Americans who opposed getting involved in World War II.

Following your logic, you would have opposed America entering that war, or at least restricting itself to fighting only the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, since Germany never attacked the US and was in fact no threat to the US.

I'm not necessarily saying that staying out of WWII would have been a bad thing -- many have made good arguments to that effect. I'm just making an observation here.

pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Phred]
    #1411664 - 03/26/03 03:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well, let me put it this way--If Saddam was invading other countries like he did before Gulf War 1, then I MIGHT support a war to get him out.

Also, I support other means of removing Saddam other than war(such as covert action and training resistance groups, etc.)


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (03/26/03 03:12 PM)


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Phred]
    #1411678 - 03/26/03 03:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hitler was very agressive. He threatened all of Europe. Saddam is not nor could he ever be the threat that hitler was. I wish people would stop comparing this to ww2! It's propoganda at best!


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1411687 - 03/26/03 03:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

silversoul7 writes:

Well, let me put it this way--If Saddam was invading other countries like he did before Gulf War 1, then I MIGHT support a war to get him out.

Why? He would still be no threat to the US. Let someone else deal with it.

Also, I support other means of removing Saddam other than war(such as covert action and training resistance groups, etc.)

You think covert ops have never been planned? Or even tried? You may not be aware that the UN charter forbids such ops, by the way. It also forbids training resistance groups.

Speaking of resistance groups, and for the people that say the Iraqis should rebel and take back their country from Hussein, I remind them that they tried that in 1991. The rebellion failed, and tens (some say hundreds) of thousands were then executed by Hussein.

pinky




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Anonymous

Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Phred]
    #1411697 - 03/26/03 03:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Speaking of resistance groups, and for the people that say the Iraqis should rebel and take back their country from Hussein, I remind them that they tried that in 1991. The rebellion failed, and tens (some say hundreds) of thousands were then executed by Hussein.

the uprising believed they would gain support from america. but the u.s turned their heads in silence.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: sirreal]
    #1411699 - 03/26/03 03:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

sirreal writes:

Hitler was very agressive. He threatened all of Europe.

Hussein was very aggressive. He attacked and tried to invade Iran, and did in fact invade and occupy Kuwait and a small part of Saudi Arabia (for a very short time).

I wish people would stop comparing this to ww2!

I am not comparing this to WWII -- I am comparing silversoul7's rationale for the "hands off" approach to the rationale of Americans who opposed getting involved in WWII -- or any other war where America was not directly invaded. Get the difference?

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: ]
    #1411709 - 03/26/03 03:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

LoOnEr writes:

the uprising believed they would gain support from america. but the u.s turned their heads in silence.

You forget that the US was forbidden from finishing the job and marching into Baghdad and removing the threat of Hussein for all time. The UN and world opinion decreed that the war would end at Iraq's borders with the liberation of Kuwait.

The US was doing nothing bad -- it was following what the world wanted it to do -- kick out Iraq from Kuwait and go home. Don't try to blame the slaughter of those who tried to rebel on the US, my friend -- blame it on the world.

pinky


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Phred]
    #1411728 - 03/26/03 03:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hussein was very aggressive. He attacked and tried to invade Iran, and did in fact invade and occupy Kuwait and a small part of Saudi Arabia (for a very short time).





Saddam was much easier to stop .And he was stopped! There was no agression this time around. I know you know this. I have read some of your posts.

And btw, I see the difference. But silversouls hands off appraoch would mean something completely different if applied to a hitler instead of a saddam. See the difference?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: sirreal]
    #1411747 - 03/26/03 03:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

sirreal writes:

But silversouls hands off appraoch would mean something completely different if applied to a hitler instead of a saddam.

How would it mean anything different at all? Hitler was not threatening the US. Saddam was not threatening the US. Hitler had no possible way of invading the US. Saddam has no possible way of invading the US.

If the acid test for deciding whether or not to fight a war is that the opponent must be a threat to the US, Hitler fails the test, no question.

pinky


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1411763 - 03/26/03 03:52 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Also, I support other means of removing Saddam other than war(such as covert action and training resistance groups, etc.)



I have heard quite a few people (were you one of them?) complain about us doing just that. We once backed Saddam and Bin Laden. How did that turn out? I'm not saying that it is necessarily a bad idea (circumstances are always different), but it could turn out to be disastrous.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: Phred]
    #1411768 - 03/26/03 03:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

If the acid test for deciding whether or not to fight a war is that the opponent must be a threat to the US, Hitler fails the test, no question.





That is not the only requirement for war in my opinion. If saddam had been showing war like agression towards allies, then this war would have gained my support. Hitler had occupied france for christ's sake!

And yes, I believe that eventually Hitler would have been a threat to the U.S. in a way that Saddam could never be.




--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: War people, why do you support the war? [Re: sirreal]
    #1411791 - 03/26/03 04:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

sirreal writes:

That is not the only requirement for war in my opinion.

Or mine. But I was responding to silversoul7, remember?

Hitler had occupied france for christ's sake!

Hussein had occupied Kuwait for christ's sake!

And yes, I believe that eventually Hitler would have been a threat to the U.S. in a way that Saddam could never be.

What way was that? How, in 1945, or even 1955 or even 1965, was Hitler going to cross the ocean with an invasion force sizeable enough to be trouble to the US?

pinky


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