Silversoul said:

Yes, I'm familiar with his work.  It's utter bunk.  His supposed research is little more than stream-of-consciousness free association, and no scholar worth their salt takes it seriously.

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Silversoul said:

Yes, I'm familiar with his work.  It's utter bunk.  His supposed research is little more than stream-of-consciousness free association, and no scholar worth their salt takes it seriously.

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What parts of the mythos carry more significant importance for you than others?


The basic mysteries of the Christian faith -- the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection -- all have special meaning for me.  I don't particularly care whether or not Jesus was literally born of a virgin, because I can conceive of the Incarnation occurring through normal procreation.  I do, however, venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary as the "Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven."

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whatsgrimace said:

Communion isn't Biblical. He just did it that once, at the last supper. He didn't tell people to keep doing it, at least I don't think He did.

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Deviate said:

In my opinion, the problem with that theory is that Christianity represents a remarkably accurate depiction of the journey of the soul, from spiritual slumber to awakening and enlightenment and union with God.

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It would be extremely ironic and unlikely if Christianity were actually this mushroom cult thing and by sheer coincidence, also just happened to be an excellent spiritual teaching.

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It just makes no sense. If you read the interpretations of the Bible written by ancient saints and ascetics, you'll see that they interpret it according to their own spiritual experiences and it fits perfectly. If the Bible wasn't about what it seems to be about then 1) it would the most extraordinary co-incidence in history and 2) it wouldn't really matter anyway, because the Bible represents a fully functional spiritual teaching, which if followed, leads one toward spiritual awakening.

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The chances of that happening entirely accident at the level of complexity seen in the Bible, are astronomically small. Thus the mushroom theory is ridiculous and untrue.

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have you any idea the evil that has been perpetrated by believers in that freaking 'Book'??

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Says who? Says a pile of words. What could compare with ACTUAL spiritual experience which is what you yourself experience with psychedelics.
Have you had psychedelic experience?

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For who? WHY is it an 'excellent spiritual teaching'? Does it actually impart the direct spiritual experience one can experience after ingesting a psychedelic?
For me psychedelic experience blew me the fuck-away. Blew my mind and changed my life.

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Maybe it 'fits perfectly' because it is dogma. have you any idea the evil that has been perpetrated by believers in that freaking 'Book'?? Look what happened to the native peoples of America! Are you telling me they did not know spirituality before those sick fucks sadly showed up in their lives?

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Have you read the book you refer to. Don't fib because I will test you on a page. IE don't say you read it and gave it away or whatever.  LOL

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FishOilTheKid said:

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have you any idea the evil that has been perpetrated by believers in that freaking 'Book'??

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And yet, that 'evil' doesn't exist somehow?  Makes sense man, meh... 


So, question: What are stones that can lift you up to Abraham?  And what exactly is the hidden manna that is eaten?

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Deviate said:

This is the shroomery, of course I've had psychedelic experiences.

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For who? WHY is it an 'excellent spiritual teaching'? Does it actually impart the direct spiritual experience one can experience after ingesting a psychedelic?
For me psychedelic experience blew me the fuck-away. Blew my mind and changed my life.

Congratulations? Do you not realize that your experience is relative to your physiology and your conditioning? Something that is mind blowing to you, won't necessarily be mind blowing to everyone else. Plenty of people take psychedelics and do not have life changing spiritual experiences.

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In the study, more than 60 percent of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience” as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

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Third, you are assuming that a spiritual experience is inherently good or inherently valuable. But a spiritual experience is just an experience. It has no inherent meaning in itself. There are those who seek something called liberation, which is beyond mere spiritual experiences. Liberation cannot be attained through drugs. They can help one see through certain illusions, but they cannot deliver liberation.

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It seems as though you are worshipping psychedelics. The is what the Bible calls Idolatry, because ultimately because everything (including liberation) comes from the one source, that source is the only thing worthy of worship. Everything else only has relative value. Those of us who seek liberation, worship the source and see psychedelics as having only relative value. They are a potent medicine no doubt, but they are only a medicine. Why would you worship medicine?

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When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

Desmond Tutu

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zzripz said:

Silversoul said:

Yes, I'm familiar with his work.  It's utter bunk.  His supposed research is little more than stream-of-consciousness free association, and no scholar worth their salt takes it seriously.

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Yet you also believe and take seriously this:

   

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What parts of the mythos carry more significant importance for you than others?


The basic mysteries of the Christian faith -- the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection -- all have special meaning for me.  I don't particularly care whether or not Jesus was literally born of a virgin, because I can conceive of the Incarnation occurring through normal procreation.  I do, however, venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary as the "Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven."

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The irony!

Please tell me if you have actually read The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, in a studied way (more than once, taking notes, checking out things said), like I have?

Also have you ever had psychedelic experience?

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So THAT means I must critically investigate those beliefs, which I see as fear-based mind control. And they affect your psyche. How you experience reality

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So what I am trying to get you to understand is that within a world full of spirit there is something else that is not good.  Call it Evil.  Its an old story.  They operate their agenda orchestrating fear based mind control techniques using what I call depatterning.  Schizophrenia literally means 'broken psyche' and these beings, which I would like you to do more of your critical investigation of (concerning fairies) break down the mind and feed off of human energy and consciousness.  This is the Truth.  It surely changes how you experience reality because entities, evil or not, are fighting for control of the body.  Its no myth to be explained away by paternalistic hierarchy social architecture.  Specific people are contacted and do what they want.  Lust for power.  And they can demonstrate all kinds of shit.

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But I challenge your sureity that these experiences you have are real.

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BUT I did not get this sense of evil you are always pushing.

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I also see nature as full of spirit. So it is more your interpretation I challenge

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And all your lingo is biblical.

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What ya on about?

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I'm no biblical scholar but Jesus is supposedly suppose to return with the 'hidden manna to eat' to complete the hero's journey of returning with the Elixir, Odysseus.  Now what is it?  And would you eat it?

Silversoul said:

zzripz said:

Silversoul said:

Yes, I'm familiar with his work.  It's utter bunk.  His supposed research is little more than stream-of-consciousness free association, and no scholar worth their salt takes it seriously.

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Yet you also believe and take seriously this:

   

Quote:

What parts of the mythos carry more significant importance for you than others?


The basic mysteries of the Christian faith -- the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection -- all have special meaning for me.  I don't particularly care whether or not Jesus was literally born of a virgin, because I can conceive of the Incarnation occurring through normal procreation.  I do, however, venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary as the "Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven."

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The irony!

Please tell me if you have actually read The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, in a studied way (more than once, taking notes, checking out things said), like I have?

Also have you ever had psychedelic experience?

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The difference is I don't expect anyone to take those Christian mysteries as a matter of serious scholarship.  Scholarship can and does tell us about the historical Jesus, while the mysteries of the faith can only be arrived at experiential.  There is nothing about this mushroom cult hypothesis (for which John Allegro had to resign his post in disgrace) that holds the slightest bit of scholarly merit.

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So do I.  Being alive is a miracle and there is plenty to marvel at and take in that is beautiful and fully a spiritual experience in itself.  This is not my interpretation of nature that I'm posting it is my report on those dark forces that are where the myths come from about underworlds and warnings of harmful beings.

I'm no biblical scholar but Jesus is supposedly suppose to return with the 'hidden manna to eat' to complete the hero's journey of returning with the Elixir, Odysseus.  Now what is it?  And would you eat it?

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zzripz said:

You cannot even talk about it because you haven't read it! And Allegro did not resign in disgrace. He never was ashamed of what he shared with great integrity. it was his silly fucked up conformist 'colleagues' who sulked and ignored him!

Have you heard of Mike Crowley?

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zzripz said:

Deviate said:

This is the shroomery, of course I've had psychedelic experiences.

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If you don't mind answering this question: when was your latest trip, and what did you take, and where. IE did you have it in natural surroundings? Or go into nature at any time during or after the trip?

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In this recent John Hopkins study the same result:

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In the study, more than 60 percent of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience” as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

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So? This supports what I am saying. You are preaching to the choir. I am not denying the fact that psychedelic drugs can give people powerful, life changing spiritual experiences. They've done that for me as well. I was an atheist before I began using psychedelics, it was through them that I found the Lord God. However, after literally being obsessed with psychedelics and putting myself through countless psychedelic experiences, eventually it dawned on me that, as special as they were, they were just temporary experiences. I realized that still I was not satisfied. Still, my heart longed for something more. Essentially, psychedelics showed me the Kingdom of God but they didn't allow me to stay there. My heart desires to REMAIN in God's kingdom, not just to visit from time to time when I have a day off work and can take some drugs. You see, there comes a point in the growth of the soul where the soul tires of mere experiences and desires to enter into rest. Psychedelics cannot fully deliver this. For this I found spiritual teachings invaluable and I also learned spiritual practices which I have found very valuable. You see, as wonderful as psychedelics are, they have many disadvantages also. One such disadvantage is the fact that you can't be tripping all the time. With other spiritual practices however, like prayer and meditation, these can be done all the time. As one becomes highly adept at meditating, they can spend their entire life in meditation, and there are Christian techniques for praying unceasingly. Clearly, it is better to have one's connection to the divine be ever accessible and not dependent on some drug. Those completely enamored with psychedelics often lack spiritual maturity in my opinion/experience and I was the same when I was younger). Not that psychedelics aren't an incredible, wondrous, powerful, amazing and beautiful gift/medicine. But that is all that they are, a gift from the creator. It is important to remember that it is the creator who deserves our praise and not his gifts.

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So that is no little thing, right? I don't need these studies conducted by 'experts' to decide for me, I am just supporting my point is all. Psychedelic experience for many can be the most powerful experience of their lives, and as I said it was for me. Though I have also had a very powerful extraordinary OBE where I had not taken any psychedelic. So I am not suggesting you can ONLY have spiritual experiences with psychedelics.

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Psychedelic was the most extraordinary experience of my live also but why? Why did I love the psychedelic experience so much? Because it took me away from the conditioning of this awful culture we live in and allowed me to experience God's love and God's creation in all its glory. This reminded me that it is GOD whom I love, and not some particular thing. This is why I maintain the importance of giving one's praise and appreciation to the creator and not to his creations. I am not saying don't love and appreciate mushrooms. I have always deeply loved and appreciated plants and tried to foster meaningful relationships to them. I grieve terribly when any of my plants are killed and when it comes to psychoactive plants, I believe that when ingested, one meets the spirit of that particular plant. But as I have said, it is the Lord, the creator, who made all of this.

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I am more saying that from time immemorial it is known worldwide that certain plants and fungi impart spiritual experiences. This is also evidenced in mythological writings though often veiled, and it is THIS which Professor John Allegro revealed. The scholar whose work you call "bunk" though you admit you have never even read it?

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I am not denying that certain plants and fungi impart spiritual experiences. In fact, such experiences have played a significant role in my own life. Mushrooms for instance, provided me with an incredibly healing experience during which I felt as though I was surrounded by angels. But again, you see it the divine, God and his angels, doing the healing. Mushrooms are merely a tool which gives one access to those realms. I am in no way knocking mushrooms, they are wonderful, but lets not forget why they are wonderful. Lets not forget the true source of wonder. So can mushrooms provide spiritual experiences? absolutely. But liberation? No. It is ludicrous to believe a book as long as the Bible, is simply about mushroom experiences rather than an ancient guide to the path which leads to ultimate spiritual freedom.

God appears in human form, to bestow liberation upon the faithful. This is the significance of the story of Jesus. It is so obvious from reading the Holy Bible, that Jesus represents God in the form of a man.

"God became man, so that man might become God." - St. Athanasius

The problem with attempting to replace the character of Jesus with a mushroom, is that mushrooms simply do not do the things that Jesus can. Mushrooms can give us spiritual experiences, which are like glimpses of God. But they cannot give us the fullness of God or the eternal life Jesus promised to give us. Only God may give that to us. Hence why God sent Jesus, so that we might have eternal life.

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I don't care what the fukin Bible says. The Bible itself becomes an idol for all the people throughout its bloody his-story who have used it in one hand with a gun in the other.

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When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

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If you don't care what the Bible says then why are so intent on proving that Jesus was a mushroom? Just forget the matter. If the Bible doesn't speak to you personally, study a different religion or spiritual teachings. Tony Parsons is good. Or don't, whatever makes you happy.

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it is also funnily ironic what you say, because anciently these consciousness and life-transforming psychedelic vegetation had sacred names, including god names. And this is what Allegro claims is meaning of 'Jesus Christ'. But of course you want to believe that unlike all the other ancient motifs, only Christianity has a REAL human who you eat the flesh and drink the blood of...? Like, yeahhhh, sure

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To my knowledge, Christ means "annointed one". After his batpism, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and remained with him for the rest of his life. If you have proof or strong evidence that Christ means something else, please provide it.

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So ARE you 'liberated'? And what do you mean by that?

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No, I am not yet liberated. There are virtually an unlimited number of ways in which one could attempt to define or explain what liberation is, but ultimately it is indescribable. Buddha defined it as the end of suffering. Jesus called it Life Eternal, or the Reign of God (translated as Kingdom of God in most Bibles). It is the end of perceiving yourself as separate from everything else, as separated from God.

A good modern teacher whom I feel explains liberation quite well from a non religious perspective is Tony Parsons. Search him on youtunbe if you are interested in liberation. If you don't like him, I also recommend Ramana Maharshi, Adyashanti and Mooji.

You see, when one tires of life in the world, when one tires of seeking experiences, even amazing spiritual experiences and instead wants to enter into rest, that is when one sets the magic mushrooms down and studies what God and the saints have said. Then one may decide to pick the magic mushrooms back up and examine what they do again from the new perspective gained through the study of God's word. I've found immense value in this. But the further one progresses, the less psychedelics are needed. Musrhooms have a great deal to teach us, they are a powerful tool God uses to teach us about life and himself. But they are not the only tool he uses. It is important not to spend too much time focusing on psychedelics because then you will miss other things that life is showing you.