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InvisiblePhobos
Registered: 10/14/00
Posts: 435
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Phobos]
    #1842855 - 08/23/03 06:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"You should expand your electronic music interests into the categories of IDM / experimental / noise."

that sounded snotty, didn't mean it that way

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Phobos]
    #1842857 - 08/23/03 06:11 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The person I am staying with has a lot of experimental/instrumental music, I'll take a listen of that sometime... Right now, though, my lists of things to download are quite long, so it'll be awhile before I get a chance to try some of that music out, although I'll keep the names in my head and if I come across them, I'll know. (Aphex Twin and Dillinger Escape Plan already sound familiar...)

RIght now what is taking up my trance library is this:

Shpongle, Infected Mushroom, Hallucinogen, Astral Projection, Ethnica, Pleiadians, Juno Reactor, Delerium, and Celtic Cross. Definitely some good shit.

Psy trance holds a special place in my heart. Their is so much range of expression there, and the music can definitely take you to a lot of places impossible in any other form of music..

I think it might have something to do with all of the panning and phasing effects.. sound can be carried anywhere, and it isn't just 12 frequencies in all the different octaves that can be hit, every microtone can be phased through. That brings up more sonic possibilites, which exponentially increases the creative possibilites. Of course, the continous bass beat reminds me of the continous, simple drum beats that Native Americans used for their spiritual ceremonies.. hehe

When I am online and checking out the Shroomery, my trance library is definitely a good thing to be played, it seems as if it brings out the open, sort of "trippy" mindset... hard to explain, but I'm sure a lot of you know what I am talking about... one word: Shpongle. 'Nuff said.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisiblePhobos
Registered: 10/14/00
Posts: 435
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1842861 - 08/23/03 06:16 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

These artists are much different than trance... you should definitely check them out if you can. ;]

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Phobos]
    #1842862 - 08/23/03 06:19 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I definitely will soon. Hell, nothing is downloading right now, so I'll do a search.. thanks for the list.

If you haven't checked out any of the bands I mentioned, especially Shpongle, I urge you to do so, too.

I'd definitely search mp3.com for Etnica, and most definitely download the songs on the Pleiadians cd. Asterope is a really good one, but they are all excellent.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (08/23/03 06:20 AM)

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Blastrid]
    #1843987 - 08/23/03 06:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Music is, in my opinion, the combined mastery of "pattern" and "vibration," which makes it an excellent vibe-sharing medium, although its recent dive into poetry-glamourization has me disgusted..


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Strumpling]
    #1844022 - 08/23/03 07:07 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

It's not the musical theory which can dampen one's ability to creatively express ones self, it's the attitude of those imparting the theory to the learner. Most (if not all) of the musical schools out there are run by faculty who are mostly (if not entirely) tight-lipped and over-ordered about music.

From personal experience, I'd say that if I'd stuck beside the instructors I've been paired with, I'd not be a musician at all today. I taught myself how to play my instrument, how to comprehend music, and that's just fine. There's a line to be drawn between lazy garage-banders and serious musicians, just as there is a line to be drawn between life-time students of music, and serious musicians.

Hey, I don't have a clue what I'm doing.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Ped]
    #1844057 - 08/23/03 07:23 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

yeah I think its VERY important to not be too caged-in by "rules" and "standards" and "conventional ways" and all of this scum they try to show you in classes.. Should they really be teaching us how to REMAKE EXISTING MUSIC?! lol


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineBlastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1844321 - 08/23/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Fireworks, One of the main causes of theses thoughts that started this thread is Boards of Canada.  Their music is electronic, but not really classifiable otherwise.  It has a combination of gentle playfulness and disturbing mystery to it at the same time.  With further listening, it makes me think they're trying to do something to me......  It's amazing  :smile:  This HAS to be on the top of your list, esp if you're a Shpongle fan (/ one who likes depth in music).

Starting this semester I'm beginning to study 20th century music and composition, so basically the present form of music theory.  I think more and more theory is stretching beyond tonal harmony and diatonic/chromatic.  With acts that are pushing the envelope of what music is, it has to be accounted for (trust me, I know some hardcore theorists who have to find method to any music).  Hell, John Cage has a piece called something like  4'17" , and it's 4 minutes and 17 seconds of silence. Sort of the Andy Worhol of music.
Slowly sound is being converted into other areas of perception.  People are understanding the physics of music better, and can figure out, using resonance and frequency, the tone that will shatter a glass, and make your hair stand up.
Likewise, some audio is being converted into the visual realm.  For example, Aphex Twin has a moment in one song (forgive me I forget, tho it's been mentioned quite often) where when watching thru an oscilloscope you can see his face  (Look here) . and then there's the whole Winamp visualization thingy....

It's just fascinating that audio can do so much, and if it can be arranged to be an image, and adjusted to test the resonance of different materials (bones, organs, brainwaves??????) then why can it not be used to directly change one's entire perception?


er somthin     


http://www.speakeasy.org/~adbrown/boc.html



--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.

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Offlineblahblah
Stranger
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 16
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1844676 - 08/24/03 12:07 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I tried psy and goa. I couldn't discern the textures. No buzz. I love the melody-layering - prog, epic, tech, breakbeats, funk, acid, vocals, deep, and hard.

So diverse. I never tire from listening.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: blahblah]
    #1844875 - 08/24/03 02:50 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

if you're into layering check out Shpongle :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Strumpling]
    #1844958 - 08/24/03 05:04 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

That is quite fucked up, that face... ironically, I had downloaded three Aphex Theory songs (I started like twenty, but only those three songs went through), and they were Windowlicker, the Star Wars theme, and some violin solo...

The thing about music is that you can do anything that you want with it. Ultimate free will. If you want a fucking lead banjo in a song, you can have a lead banjo. hehe. It is really all up to the artist creating, their vision... I personally hate those "teach yourself guitar" books.. It is only you that can teach yourself..

A lot of people go off on Korn because they have "no talent". There really aren't any rules on how music is to be made, and if they like fucking around with pedals, then so what? They still understand the art of crafting songs, and I once read a column with Fieldy talking about arrangements, dynamics, etc. and the way Korn uses them... he wasn't just sprouting bullshit that he didn't understand...

Live shows are fucking insane.. Their is just so much fucking energy being sent back and forth, you can feel it.. I once saw Mudvayne and IN FLAMES together, and it was a hell of a show. I made a thread about it (check it out!), I haven't been to a lot of shows, but it was an experience I will never forget, and will definitely remember it when I am the one up on the stage.. They kept thanking everyone for showing up and for giving them a chance to share energy and share their music. Mudvayne understands what it is all about (I keep thinking about their first cd with the dialogues from Terrence McKenna...)

Anyways, yeah, I've lost my train of thought, so I'll just post this and add more later..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Blastrid]
    #1845111 - 08/24/03 09:40 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

That was a fantastic picture !!!!!!


Interesting door you've gone through there...


I'm wondering how long it might have taken to make just the right sounds to make that happen....






--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


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OfflineSizzlinJ
walter crunkite

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1,154
Loc: in miami where aint shit ...
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845364 - 08/24/03 12:22 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

no offense guy, but i'm not exactly sure what kind of 'emotion' really shitty nu-death metal bands are supposed to be expressing. sounds to me like a bunch of good musicians shrieking and growling about dungeons and dragons. but that's just my opinion. i too listen to alot of heavy music, and i'm not trying to say that what i listen to is better, but i think there is a big difference between an amazing, powerful and moving heavy band like shai hulud and some hot topic mtv bullshit like cradle of filth.


--------------------


G2 nigga
we runnin' miami

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OfflineSizzlinJ
walter crunkite

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1,154
Loc: in miami where aint shit ...
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: SizzlinJ]
    #1845368 - 08/24/03 12:26 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

isis = amazing
converge = amazing
dillinger escape plan = used to be great.. till mike patton ruined it, and now greg puciato, the new singer, is an asshat who thinks he's mike patton.

i suggest some hopesfall.. pref. off the satellite years, very beautiful guitar work and vocals. and fireworks god, check out lamb of god or bleeding through for some good metal without all the elf-metal lord of the rings type subject matter.


--------------------


G2 nigga
we runnin' miami

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: SizzlinJ]
    #1845438 - 08/24/03 01:05 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SizzlinJ said:
no offense guy, but i'm not exactly sure what kind of 'emotion' really shitty nu-death metal bands are supposed to be expressing. sounds to me like a bunch of good musicians shrieking and growling about dungeons and dragons. but that's just my opinion. i too listen to alot of heavy music, and i'm not trying to say that what i listen to is better, but i think there is a big difference between an amazing, powerful and moving heavy band like shai hulud and some hot topic mtv bullshit like cradle of filth.




Perhaps we are talking about two different things here, I think..

IN FLAMES, Dark Tranquility, and Opeth are great, heavy, and especially melodic bands. IN FLAMES lyrics of late have been mostly about Anders positive realizations about life after being released from a painful relationship he had (check out my signature for an idea of what they used to be about awhile back, when they were more rooted in death metal), Dark Tranquillity sing a great deal about a lot of different things, and Opeth's lyrics are basically poetic metaphors about a lot of different experiences, I guess.

These three bands (the ones I was talking about when I mentioned the use of emotions) might not fit in with the general "melodic death metal" bands that are out there, I only listen to what sounds great to me, and they could be described as melodic death metal. Listing the originators with the imitators in any genre seems like a crime in itself... And they are all quite talented, too, half of the bands out there couldn't stand up to them..

The music I listen to in this vein isn't "shreiking and growling about dungeons and dragons". Are there death vocals? Yes, for the most part (Opeth is basically half and half now, he has this really melodic and layered clean voice that is stunning). The music isn't about meaningless shit. Everything said has some sort of relevance, or message, and it isn't presented in "My life sucks, aahhhhh!!!!, my mom died, graaahhhhh!".

There is always some substance, too, in the music you are describing as about "dungeons and dragons". It is all about allegories and representation (from dictionary.com: The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.
A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby Dick are allegories).

Hmm.. I didn't realize that Cradle of Filth was all over MTV, it seems that they really wouldn't fit in with the normal MTV crowd, since they are straight up Satanic death goth metal, but then again, I don't watch T.V., haven't for several years, so I really couldn't tell you..

I listen to Cradle of Filth because the music sounds good to me. Ever heard of Dimmu Borgir? Sounds kick-ass as well. I mean, what they do with synths and symphonies mixed in with guitars is amazing. I like the way Dani Filth's voice sounds, very demonic. You see, I listen to music because it fits my ear, most of all. It sounds great to me, so I listen to it.

Other music I listen to because of the total package. I am not too discriminatory in what I listen to. I find it hard to judge all bands in some category as one and the same because each band is different. I may not really get what they are trying to say or what they are trying to do with their music, but then again, maybe their music isn't really aimed towards me... Every band has their audience, and their is a reason that they have the audience that they have..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSizzlinJ
walter crunkite

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1,154
Loc: in miami where aint shit ...
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845517 - 08/24/03 01:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

touche.

i was mainly talking about dimmu and cradle.

i am an opeth and in flames fan.

i just think cradle of filth and dimmu borgir and the other bands that fit in that category are just very corny, to the point where when i hear it i actually start laughing.


--------------------


G2 nigga
we runnin' miami

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: SizzlinJ]
    #1845542 - 08/24/03 02:01 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SizzlinJ said:
i just think cradle of filth and dimmu borgir and the other bands that fit in that category are just very corny, to the point where when i hear it i actually start laughing.




That's all right, to each our own. Myself, though, the heavy guitars, the fast double bass, the death vocals, and the way the synths and the symphonies blend in sound great. Dimmu does a lot of harmony guitar parts, too, and that makes it that much better.

Yeah, when I make music, it isn't always just hardcore speed and everything, but I guess that is the point of speed metal... Most of us don't live lives that are that emotionally intense, but I don't mind listening every once and awhile..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSizzlinJ
walter crunkite

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1,154
Loc: in miami where aint shit ...
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845600 - 08/24/03 02:26 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

it's not really the vocals.. well constant deep growling gets kind of annoying, but i also listen to shit like grindcore which has growling parts, its just the whole general package.. even the way they market themselves, it just seems like instead of making music it's more like an audio book. i do suggest you check out lamb of god or bleeding through though. it's all the goodness of metal without the cheeze.


--------------------


G2 nigga
we runnin' miami

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: Phobos]
    #1845646 - 08/24/03 02:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Since you mentioned Steve Reich, I thought I should point out the relation of his music with artificial life as it has been considered by a-life researchers.

His music, which is known to be complex polyrhythmic, is actually made by layered repeated patterns, quite simple on their own, that are played simultaneously. The patterns are shifted in and out of phase with their rise and fall coordinated, as well as their intensity and the variations of the voices used.

So, what happens in this case is that you get complex polyrhythmic music out of the interaction of simple rhythms that would be uninteresting in isolation. And you get this without the need for a musician that has the ability to conceive of such complex rhythm. The artist establishes the initial conditions and engineers the rules of the interaction but has no control over the course that the system is going to take and thus cannot know the result of his work before it happens.

This kind of art is called process-based or generative. The idea is that you apply a process on a set of elementary components and through this process the components interact non-linearly and out of this interaction you get ?a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts?, a phenomenon called emergence. Emergence is one of the basic characteristics used to define something as living and one of the main themes of artificial life.

Now emergence in this case is a perceptual phenomenon, as these components cannot be said to interact non-linearly except within the mind of the listener. While the resulting waveform is just a linear summation of the waves from the individual components, for the listener however this sum takes on a whole new meaning, as a new rhythm is now perceived that was not programmed.

The polyrhythmic music emerges not because of the physics of waves but because the listener is a nonlinear biological entity. However there is much controversy on what do we really mean by emergency and if this really can count as an emergent phenomenon. Reich likes to call his pieces of music organisms. An entertaining metaphor?

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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music [Re: raytrace]
    #1845666 - 08/24/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

This thread overwhelms me.

Music is my life. I have so many feelings on this subject, I don't think I can even touch the surface. It is part of my soul. It nourishes and heals me. Creating music is one of the purest expressions of human creativity. Listen to music is part of my spiritual healing. It has the ability to effect our mood and disposition in many ways, to purge negative emotions, and a vast spectrum of effects that go far beyond the scope of everyday perception.

Music is a vibration, usually it has a message encoded. We are a vibration, and when different vibrations converge.. harmonious things may occur. The Universe has a perpetual symphony going. And we are all whirling through the grande cosmic dance.



Music


--------------------

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