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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #20195781 -

Alright, here's a better question: Was Jesus human? Half God half man or all God and no man.


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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20195854 -

whatsgrimace said:
What do you personally think and do you have any source or information to back it up?


Just using the New Testament as a source, and excepting discussions of whether its entirely falsified or not.

Jesus prayed to God to spare him. Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him. He was also supposedly a perfect human sacrafice to the diety. If he was God and prayed to himself to spare himself and why prayed to himself asking why he forsook himself and sacraficed himself to himself he should have several thousand electro shock treatments for insanity because he was a blithering lunatic. That was no god, perhaps a pallidly incompetant hack, nailed to a tree, but no diety of any sort.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #20195883 -

http://www.crystalinks.com/starbethlehem.html


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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20196213 -

I sometimes feel like the battle between good and evil are just different races of aliens at war with each other.


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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #20196828 -

There was only one word in the Greek language for a young girl and virgin. The concept was synonymous, unlike the Hebrew. English has one word for snow, Eskimos have 28 words for snow. English has one word for love, Greeks have Agapé (the word that's in the NT for warm, disinterested compassion, Eros (desire, yearning), Pragma (long-standing or married love), Philautia (self-love), Philia (friendship), and Ludus (playful love). The Hebrew author of Isaiah was not positing parthenogenic birth.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20196850 -

whatsgrimace said:
Alright, here's a better question: Was Jesus human? Half God half man or all God and no man.


The same for all of us, eternal and temporal. Christian theologies struggled with this because the assumption was that Jesus was a unique specie, a virtual demigod. Read up on the Pelagians, Arians, Sabellians, Nestorians, Monophysites, Montanists, etc. and see how misguided humanity was based on a mythological construct taken historically. All of these, and more, were deemed heresies. "Fully God and fully man" was the eventual outcome of orthodoxy, instead of the realization that this is the case for every human being, although Jesus is the only recognized Self-Realized being in the West.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Icelander]
    #20196858 -

Icelander said:
whatsgrimace said:
What do you personally think and do you have any source or information to back it up?



God isn't even god. :satansmoking:



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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20197514 -

whatsgrimace said:
Alright, here's a better question: Was Jesus human? Half God half man or all God and no man.


Here's some questions also that might add to an answer to your question: what does it even matter that some dude from years back, and we is talking 2 THOUSAND years back when was supposed to be THE ONLY 'Son of God' who was expected to be sacrificed to the warrior 'sky God' 'Yahweh/Jehovah' to pay for 'our sins'. And he was tortured and crucified and died and did resurrect on the third day and went back to his 'FATHER' in heaven.....?

Are you really taking this seriously as a story to be taken as history...?



Can you not see that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary investigation

This would mean you find out where this concept of 'THE deity over all creation' being male and a father comes from. The patriarchy, and what THAT means

As well you need to know the meaning of mythos. IF you have had psychedelic experience you are closer than you think. Because the real meaning of mythos is NOT some silly history tale to be taken literally and argued over incessantly and causing wars n all kinds of evil shit, but is rather the freely choosing the stepping into an eternal sense of reality NOW via ritual, most powerfully inspired with psychedelic--consciousness-expanding--vegetation and substances

Edited by zzripz (06/28/14 04:47 AM)

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: zzripz]
    #20197519 -

zzripz said:
Here's some questions also that might add to an answer to your question: what does it even matter that some dude from years back, and we is talking 2 THOUSAND years back when was supposed to be THE ONLY 'Son of God'


This is probably the biggest misunderstanding of all.

His message, as a simple flesh and blood human was that the entire collective of man is the "Son" of God.

Realization of this comes through pure consciousness (which he had) and which we all have inside of us beyond the veil of the ego (sin / cause of sin) and this represented the bulk of his entire teachings.

Before you can challenge a belief it's imperative that you understand the simple fundamentals of it.

Edited by Duncan Rowhl (06/28/14 05:09 AM)

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #20197541 -

Is Jesus God?

Yes, Everything is God.

Is Jesus all there is to God?

No, Everything is all there is to God, including Jesus.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #20198385 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
The translation that Mary was a virgin is actually a mistranslation of Isaiah 9:6 is a mistranslation! Matthew (the name attributed to the genealogical gospel. No one knows who actually wrote it, as it was untitled), had been using the Septuigint, the Greek translation of the Tenach, not the Hebrew original. Greek had only one word for 'young woman,' which in the Hebrew original in almah. In Hebrew, the word for virgin is bethula. Greek had the word parthenos alone, which meant both. There is no virgin birth of a demigod in Hebrew myth. That is Greek mythology, and typical of other cultures who wish to express the divinity of certain figures. Similar myths have been atibuted to the Buddha, just as lotus blossoms (a water lily) that supposedly sprang from the earth at his first baby steps. Myth, not history.


I know personally from past life experience that Mary was no virgin. :nicesmile:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20198788 -

whatsgrimace said:
Is Jesus God?


No, dankcoin is :facepalm:

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: whatsgrimace]
    #20199044 -

Jesus was a man, but his likeness to God is God Consciousness, which is within us all. It is the consciousness that uses energy to hold everything together, from sub-atomic particles, the human form, as well as the entire universe, astral and cosmic realms. Some are more full of God Consciousnes and some have less and some don't realize anything spiritual about themselves. All teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda state this fact. But my personal experience verify this as true. If one meditates and reaches the level of their soul or atman, they will experience this truth--that God, us, life are all pure consciousness.
My book is free if people want to read it. http://EricRobertNielsen.com/beyond-gods-veil

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #20199511 -

Okay, thanks for clarifying, this is all really helpful!
So does the mythology seem more like a sentiment to you,
something to inspire our ideals and imagination,
but not something to replace history?

I guess I like to think of ways in which a parthenogenic birth occurred,
but the understanding of God being within all sentient beings,
that we can all achieve Self-Realization,
definitely meshes well with accepting that Jesus may have been born in natural, biological circumstances.

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #20199580 -

Mythology arises from archetypal themes, psychic structures that comprise the Collective Unconscious of humanity. They are not sentiments, yet the Feeling Function can certainly be elicited by the various myths. Felings include fear and horror too of course, and these wrathful aspects have been enacted time and again in cultures guided by their myths. You name it, the Sn-Heart equation is universal, but the way it was depicted in Aztec ritual was a fucking nightmare compared to the Heart of the Son (Son) pierced, and pouring forth [lunar] water and [solar] blood from the corpse of Jesus on the cross. Then, the sky was darkened, ostensibly by a lengthy solar eclipse - again, the Eternal Solar Deity occulted by the dark, Lunar, watery, changeable elements. Jesus was suspended between heaven and Earth, between the Good and Evil thieves, etc. Union of Opposites. Conjunctio. Coincidentia Oppositorum. Did crucifixions happen? Lots. Did all these events synchronistically converge on Jesus' crucifixion? Who knows?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #20199886 -

:happyclaps:  :bow2:

those psychic dimensions... that's how I explain the life of Noah, among most other empirically impossible myths, that they occurred in their full, biblical description on the astral plane or in the psychic dimensions of collective-consciousness, and happened in a less recognizable, more historically precise way on Earth. I guess it's the constant warble between Heaven and Earth..

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #20199942 -

The way I see it is Jesus god or not hanging on the cross asking god the father why god have you forsaken me.  So that would make the father god no?  So Jesus wasn't god apparently.

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #20200348 -

That's what BE HERE NOW said about the Bible, very groovy stories on the astral plane, but that Reality lives in the Here and Now.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #20201028 -

Jesus is one of the identities within God. I would interpret "first-born Son" to mean that his unique identity issued naturally from God as a facet of his infinite identity. He isn't a creation in that God made him, but he is subordinate to the Father.


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It is better to be patient than powerful; it is better to have self-control than to conquer a city.
~Proverbs 16:32


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Re: Is Jesus God? [Re: Advocate]
    #20201514 -

That's just mytho-trinitarian conceptual stuff. Jesus the Jew would not have agreed with you or with any trinitarian inventions, beginning with Tertullian, the 2-volumes of Augustine, the interesting theology of Pseudo-Dionysus, the modern theology of Nicoli Berdyaev, or the post-modern Christian existentialist John MacQuarrie (all of whom I've suffered to read). The Christian trinity as it developed from an earlier duality of Father-Son, is nothing other than the Christianization of the ONE-Nous-World Soul of the Neoplatonist Plotinus (see The Enneads, a tome that I received a tutorial in from the theologian David G. Leahy, author of Novitas Mundi). Trinitarian thought is an interesting attempt to intellectualize spiritual reality that defies comprehension. Thomas Aquinas said of his Summa Theologica, "It's all straw." Those who think they understand something about life in the Godhead, the Divine Economia, are just ego-inflated foolish intellectuals. These are all inventions of man.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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