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Are some people not meant to believe in god?
    #1600465 -

As long as I can remember I've never believed there is a god. I never really understood what praying was. I live in a world, a perception, limited only to five senses. If I attempt to pray to god, it just seems silly to me. I feel like I'm just talking to the wall or the ceiling and wasting my time. I'm sitting here trying to figure out what all you spiritual people are raving about. When you pray, do you actually get a sense that you are talking to someone? Because I don't. I could never be able to believe there is a god and it will never change for the rest of my life.

Some other things that have come to my mind... Would you religious people have believed in or acknowledged a higher power if religion hadn't already been established in the world and became a widely accepted practice? I know that's pretty hypothetical, since religion and spirituality have been around forever. But I mean is, if you grew up in an environment that didn't even comprehend the thought of or know god existed, would you believe in god? I hope I don't offend anyone but sometimes I think that religion is mass mind control. But anyway, I guess this all comes down to, does spirituality come naturally within yourself or is it just another widely used thought process that you are adapted to in your environment. Since I could never believe in god, does this mean that some people in the world have certain traits that make them more susceptible to believing in or not believing in god?

I have other stuff to say about religion but it's mostly negative stuff so I won't go into it.

Edited by babytripster (06/02/03 02:40 AM)

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1600630 -

religion is pretty fucked up


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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1600860 -

Couldn't agree more Shizno. If most of the religious people in the world hadn't been force-fed whatever bullshit they believe since their youth then almost no one would actually have any faith whatsoever.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: toned3f]
    #1601009 -

i think lots of people are 'ment' to not believe in god..
no one can help how they feel about things..so why 'condem' them for it. i think goinig along with what you feel is the best way to go about things...

i grew up knowing about the christian god...but still not much about it till i was about 12, 13ish, and i became friends with a 'hard core' christian gril.
i went to curch with her a couple times, and didn't really feel comfterble with it.
it defently wasn't for me.
i new there had to be something different but i didn't know what (at the time, i never new about anyother religion i figured they were all pretty much the same)
so i just decided not to worry about it.
i figured if there was a god..than i doubt he'd wast his time on condeming me for something i couldn't help.
i still dont' know what i believe...i believe in something..that there is something more..
anything is possible.

and what about when religion was first created...back then there was nothing to feed it...and people still believed.
i wonder what/who started the beliefes in the beginning..?


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1601217 -

Yeah I always wondered who created religion. If by chance god(s) don't really exist and it's all a sham.... then whoever thought of it first was a genius. Is there actually like a documentary out there that tells about the origions of religion?

Now that I think about it, god isn't really a complex thing. Humans always need to have an answer to everything, to package everything up in a nice clean box. God is a pretty easy answer to how existance started. But anyway, I don't think it takes much to realize that everything just exists because it just exists. There isn't a meaning of life. There's not some guy watching everything everyone does every second of your life, taking notes and such, judging all your actions. Frankly, the idea of that kind of scares me. The whole scheme of it reminds me quite a lot like the book 1984. Somone watching you every minute of the day and scrutinizing every thought in your head. I know some people get positive things from being spiritual but I also know people who are living in their own religious prison throughout their whole life. It seems like the older I get the more religion sounds completely absurd. It's actually frightening how many people in the world easily believe something so obviously made up. I don't like judging people. If I was god, I wouldn't want a single person to have to go to hell. I wish everything and everyone would live in peace and a heaven-like state. I don't even believe there are truly bad people out there (except those evil conservatives in office  :smile:, jk). Wow, I'm really preaching now, so I'll just shut up.

Edited by babytripster (06/02/03 11:37 AM)

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1601236 -

yeah, its weird...they claim god knows all, sees all (THE FUTURE! (revelations etc))...then nothing matters, sincec he KNOWS you are going to be saved or not, so what the fuck is the point then? God must be an attention whore, "worship me or suffer forever"...its pretty screwed up, surely he wouldve known satan would come along...why would he LET that happen?

god made everything (mustve made bad things too, guilt etc)

the christian explanation is "you have free will"..but thats bullshit, god made EVERYTHING, including the sins! things cant 'just happen' after all (in creation)...and the fact you have already been pre determined to be saved or not (if he knows the future, its already set)

oh...and one other thing...PRAYER....what shit...i have NEVER once seen prayer work, or known anyone that has had prayer work...sure...you pray for everything, and SOME things come true "please god, get me from point a to b"...but does that mean praying did anything? No.
Someone should pray for a million dollars to appear, guess what...its not going to happen...i wonder why?


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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1601257 -

God told me not to believe in him and I listened.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1601284 -

Yeah. You have the free will.... to do what god wants or you'll go to hell! I refuse to live by God's rules. I will do whatever I want without persecution or judgement by a god. Now that is REAL free will.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1601301 -

There is no documentation on the origin of religion because polytheism alone outdates recorded history. Fatalists, who are almost always religious, believe in the lack of free will (Matrix, anyone?). I couldn't think of a more useless way to live life than that of a fatalist.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: toned3f]
    #1601414 -

But of course, MATRIX!

Its good to believe and not to believe, i guess it depends how you look at it. All people are have a god, and its all in there heads.

However you have the ones in the box, the ones who say they communicate with the "holy spirit". Like my grandma, she'll shake, or roll around on the floor calming the spirit touched her. lol (of course now she too old to roll around on the floor) These people i don't understand, and in my opinion these are TRUE HALLUCINATIONS!


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1601533 -

ive heard people talk in tongues in church, while its interesting at 1st, i noticed they were saying the same shit over and over, every sunday...i can talk in tongues too and make it sound quite like them...anyway, EVERY religion has things like this, they ALL feel 'something/love' (why else would they keep lying to themself)...so is every religion right? No, each one claims to be The Truth (and usually has about 500 different 'versions' because noone can agree on THE TRUTH), and they all have some version of Hell...(well...not all...)



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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1601537 -

You cant tell me an "all loving" god would send billions of asians to hell because their nations are buddhist etc.


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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1601541 -

Most religions are not based on love, but on fear.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1601637 -

I'm not religious and I don't pray, but I used to be and I used to....

I think praying gives people false hope most of the time.. Instead of solving a problem themselves they might just sit down every evening and ask God for devine assistance.

"Oh heavenly Lord please save my dying son" - shit like that.. dude take 'im to the fuckin hospital!

I find that without prayer in my life, I tend to tackle problems a bit faster because I'm not counting on/waiting for "God" to assist me.

Its possible that God doesn't want some of us to believe, but I don't understand why that would be - many versions of "God" don't like people worshipping something other than "It."


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1602006 -

Christianity as a word was clearly not used by Jesus, whose name really wasn't Jesus, but Y'shua, in Hebrew (which is our English name Joshua), and Isso, in Aramaic, which was probably what his Mother Miriam (not Mary) called Him. Jesus was a Greek name, but again there is no 'J' in Greek, only and 'I,' so really, it should be Iesus. And Christ, which is English for Christos, in Greek, means 'Annointed,' like a king is annointed ritually as a Divine Right of Kingship. In Hebrew, the title for one annointed is Meshiach (or Messiah, in English). All the Hebrew Kings were considered to be kings by Divine Right, and were all referred to as 'son of God,' in the Old Testament.


Christianity is like the game 'telephone,' with a whole historical line of people whispering a single message about the God-Experience of the man Jesus. So much distortion, so many hidden and political agendas from Constantine onward have left hardly any trace of the original Truth surrounding the man Jesus. Most of what people bring up on this forum reflects the doctrines that became dogma over time, dished out to generation after generation with 'believe it or else' attitude - a hostility and violence that has never had anything in common with the Master of Compassion, Forgiveness, Love, Impartiality and Wisdom.

In order to discover the Truth that Jesus manifested, and which began the Church that developed to honor that Truth, every individual must throw off everything they've ever learned about their religion, and make an individual quest for the Truth. This is an inward quest, supported in part by writings both Biblical and extra-Biblical, but put to a patient test - an individual experiment with Truth. This is very private, very personal and not for common conversation with those who are not making such a quest.

In my experience, I didn't decide to believe in anything other than what my rational and intuitive mind showed me, in conjunction with sense data. For me, it was Religious Experience of the mystical type that showed me whole new ways of being and that what is possible far transcended any understanding of life that I formerly had. I followed up with 30 years of study and experimentation with spiritual truths, and the trip has been positively transforming. Many without the enthusiasm and direction and that I have been 'graced' with, have fallen asleep in life, pursuing little more than 'the one who dies with the most toys wins' philosophy, or fallen into depression, despair, drug addiction or death by suicide. These are the rotten fruits of a life lived without Ultimate Meaning. Not everything is a vessel to contain such Meaning, and the quest for such a vessel is the symbolic Quest for the Holy Grail - it is the quest for a Life of Meaning.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1602083 -

and make an individual quest for the Truth. This is an inward quest, supported in part by writings both Biblical and extra-Biblical, but put to a patient test - an individual experiment with Truth. This is very private, very personal and not for common conversation with those who are not making such a quest.


Many people proclaim to live in The Word and fail to demonstrate it, so how can an outsider trust the word of someone who says they have been found? There is no clear-cut methodology for grace - it just happens (if indeed it does).

What is one to believe who has made the sincerest quest that he knows how to and has come up empty-handed? He should hope against hope for some miracle of faith based on your testimony (and others) and that of an ancient and distorted text, though a million steps has brought him not one inch closer to any form of Truth?

Should he give up the fruitless search and enjoy the material world while he may? Or spend his life looking for Alchemical gold though it may not even exist?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Swami]
    #1602242 -

Should he give up the fruitless search and enjoy the material world while he may?

An Epicurean might say so, but not I.

"Prayer does more than help us get what we want; it helps us become what God whats."

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Swami]
    #1602285 -

STOP! Don't move a neuron. You don't have to DO anything. If the Truth is anywhere, it is closer to you now 'than your jugular vein,' so sayest the Muslims. No, do not wait for anything miraculous in the sense of physics-defying phenomena. IT is Present to you in any given minute. In fact, I have heard, and believed that very boredom is the 'springboard into Eternity.' You cannot come any closer to Truth, or synonymously, to Reality. It is, as Paul said, 'In God, we live and move and have our being.' It is a Realization, a making Real the awareness of this Truth. The utter simplicity of it escapes the mind looking for more, for other than, for something else. The Realization overwhelms the pain of our existence, the fear, the loss, the lack, the losing, the grief, the anxiety, the anticipation of the future moment, the regret for the past. It's not a Dove, a Halo, a roving star. The closest 'thing' is silence, a breath. A moment ago we were a rock, NOW look at us, and the best is yet to come - Awareness Itself - Infinite - Eternal - Transparent - Fearless - Unbearable Compassion. It's Here, Now, I sense it -there's a slight smile on my lips as I type this - through my back pain, though my Father languishes in a nearby home, in sight of my canine friend Ben's gravestone, it's in your words, it's in you - so help me God.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/02/03 08:24 PM)

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1602500 -

i didnt read all the relies and shit but here are my thoughts



i think some people are just born being skeptical about some things. as with me ive been raised by a familly with very stong christian beliefes. I was taken to church...went to private school (until middle school). My sisters,mom and dad, EVERYONE in my familly is you typacle close minded christian.

oh i forgot an important point. i think it could be a gene or soemthing some people have. when i speak of people as my mom,dad,sister and everything its not really boilogical. See i was adopted by my grandparents when i was an infant because my real dad didnt have the finacial fund to take care of me because my real mom had just left. Later we also found out he had a bad coke/alchohol problem which later led to crack. So when i say mom and dad jsut leep that in mind. Also my mom is my real grandmother and she remarried so my dad is in no way realated to me in blood.....and my sisters are really my aunts (2 not blood related and one is). My dad has recovered and has been living with us for a couple year now trying to get on his feet and make enough money as an electrician to live his own life again, but his time sober. I will call him my real did if i refer to him and not just dad. Also i will refer to my real mom the same way.

so anyway my dads side of the familly is extremely closed minded. Escpecially about religion...if he knew what i thought i would not have a place to live. My mom has the same belifes but she has an open mind and is not all obsessed. Also her side of the familly (my biological one) is the same way, with a few exceptions. Now my real mom which i only have one pic of (prom pic of her and my real dad) and never spoken too untill this dec. and that was only for like 10 secs when she traked me down and called the house and i talked to her and she started crying uncontrollably after about 5 sec....so i handed the phone off to my dad. I have nothing against her really but shes not signifigant to me really. But for the sake of the whole gene thing, i only know what people have told me about her but they sayed she was a con artist from hell and had the same drug problems as my dad and just was generally a wild person.

ok so as i said i was raised surrounded by the whole god thing and ever since the first thing i remeber i have doubted it. I have always thought about deep stuff and philisofical stuff. I always was skepticle about religion....it just never made sense to me to just believe it bacause everyone says its right. I knew there were other religions although i didnt know anything about them or anyone that practiced them. But i just wouldent believe something simply because a book said so. Everyone i knew was christian so to me most people were christian. I considered myself christian.....but i knew consiously that the basis for me believing that was just because i was ignorent about everything but that. I was ignorent of the fact that the bible wasent proven to be historically acurate, at least not most of the key parts.

everytime i would ask anyone something questioning the bible or why it was like that or why other religions arent right i would get the typical christian answered that had no hard truth or evedence. stuff like.... because the bible is the truth and its all in faith. So i knew i woudlent get anything constructive out of them so i jsut went along with the whole thing to this day for fear of people in my familly thinking im a bad person or something. But even in my young mind it was impossible for me to just "have faith". I cant just do that without some kind of personal interaction or soemthing. Kind of like how my parent used to always use that "because i said so thing" constantly and i would get so pissed because i wanted a damn good reason and all i got was that. I would argue about how that wasent a reason that just an ascuse becasue you really dont have a good reason.

and to this day i keep it to myself when it comes to familly, because i love my familly ad i dont want to dissapoint them or have them think bad of me. I mean my grandpa preaches constantly if you do so much as grow your hair past your eyebrows.

so all my life i see people just base there life on stuff because other people said so. or becasue that waht everyone did. I really dweeled on this in high school. I dispised how people would follow the crowd and i would let everyone know it. I had (and still do) have many friends that are like this. I dont hold it against them or discriminate casue they are good people and i dont really think its there fault. But i jsut dont see what kind of logic these people have. I have givin up arguing witht hem about it casue it wont work. At least with people like me i can have a good argument with reasons that make sense. without that its just a waste of time.

all through high school me and a few friends always wondered what was different about us. How come we ware like this? How come we dont have some kind of fucked up logic like the rest of the sheep?

when i went to college i took sociology and that has opened my eyes a lot. I realized that noone can help the way they are....i have pearned about how babys and kids imitate the people they look up to and that they are automattically conditioned to have the same beliefes as there familly as long as they have a good familly life. My familly life was great....and ive thought the way i think since i was little. So why did the whole conditioning and sociolozing not work for me. Why did i not have the kind of warped thinking as everyone else? I know i didnt get it from anyone else.

so in conclusion i think some people are just born to resist some kinds of sociolozation and are born with there own logic and ways of thinking that cant be affected by conditioning.....they have a different sort of way of thinking and logic than the sheep.


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Vulture]
    #1602550 -

btw i consider myself agnostic. I dont think any religion is right untill proven so. I think one should leran about all religions. Personally i take aspects of a lot of them and incorperate those into my life. I think most religions are good in that they help people lead good lives. But i also think that there bad in a way and go against themselves because it causes people to really loses part of there free will and if its not tru then its a lie...and thats contradicting itself. They are bad because they make people fight. They are the reason for a lot of the struggle and wars and conflict in this world. They help people lead good lives in the small picture....but in the big one (which is more important and signifigant to me) they casue more harm than good.

so mabe the bible is right to an extent. mabe a lot of the philosofies are right but are merely misinterpreted. If you think of god as yourself then you can lead your life like a christian but intead of beliveing in god as its pictured in the bible you believe in yourself. I know that how i am. Maby we are god. we are ment to have faith in ourselves. And the bible could be the work of satan because it makes people beilieve something else before themselves. They dont even think naturally....they base everything on what someone else did. Mabe religion is the work of satan and its really part of the whole revalations thing. Revalations is a book that i think has something more to it becasue you can apply it to a lot of stuff. Religion or christianity falls under a lot of the things revelation talks about being of satan. The whole illusion thing and how everyone its gonna seem like everyone believes it and  how it seems like it can solve the world problems but tis really the base of the problems but people dont see it.


Believe in yourself. Think for yourself. Treat others how you would be treated. And have an open mind. Thats my philosofy.

:smile:


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1602596 -

I really want you all to hear me out.  FUCK RELIGION, dont even put any thought into what those religious fundamentalists say about God, HOW THE FUCK DO THEY KNOW? you all have the same comebacks on them as i do, they make God look like a son of a bitch and look at how many haters christians got on him by now!!

God IS all loving, he will never send anyone to hell as it does not exsist anyways.  There is no such thing as hell.  As for "judgement day", you want to know the facts on that?  YOU JUDGE YOURSELF.  Dont let anybody tell you otherwise.  I dont mean to offend nobody, but you need to forget everything you ever heard about God and listen to your heart, deep down....how do you expect God to deal with you?  You should want him to be a really cool mother fucker, just like you, right?  We  are ALL so close to him it isnt even fucking funny, and what IS funny is that HE IS very close to us and we dont realize it.  I have so much shit i learned about God that it is very hard to put into words and "just explain".  One thing i can tell you all is that he loves you more than you can imagine with a feeble human mind.

This may get goofy for some people, but the reason that i think some people get it and some just never will, is some souls are far more advanced than others are(because they lived more lives and experienced more than others, reincarnation does exsist).  Your homie might be a young ass soul who dont know his ass from his armpit, but you on the other hand are wise beyond comprehension.

for any of you juggalo's, ICP is so close to God that they based their whole career around directing us to him(AND THEY BLEW THE FUCK UP DIDNT THEY!).  They did it so fucking fresh it leaves some people like...wtf?  But the real juggalos know what the fuck the deal is.

Im just rambling...If you have the great milenko.....listen to the song "Halls of Illusions"....now listen, because i will help you find God if you have patience to do it.  go to http://www.near-death.com and read a few Near Death Experiences[NDE]. The song is clearly a NDE of someone who lived a bad life.  People experience what are called "life reviews" when they die(this is when you judge yourself).  A life review is exactly that....a review of your entire life.  You will experience every good and bad thing you ever done in your life(this is why you make the best judge :smile: ).  Example: You buy your little brother or sister a gift, and they look up to you, so no matter what it was they loved it anyways, you will feel the love you filled them with in return(but in spirit form its undescribable, if you ever taken E before, it makes that weak as fuck :wink: im talking about 'unconditional love' here.)....also if you beat the shit out of some kid because of him stealing your cd's or something, you will also feel the pain you caused him, that can be what the christians try to describe as "hell"..this is why they try and force us into being good.  But what they are ignorant to realize is that it doesnt concern them, its OUR life.  WE deal with OUR OWN consequenses.  Anyways...for those of you still with me the reason for this is because when we judge ourselves, we are judging ourselves through the eyes of God so to speak.  Our higherselves are perfect like God so we "just know" what is right(what god would want[cuz we look up to him, he is our "father"]), but we arent while we are humans. 

arite...im done.  This is only MY OPINION, MY VIEWS on things, just sharing them with you all.

peace

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Vulture]
    #1602624 -

ok i read the replies and markthegnostic.....damn man you have put into words what i could not. i feel the same way....although im only 19 and im still on my quest and feel closer and closer every day. Now i doubt that the truth will ever answer a lot of the questions i have because they simply cant be answered untill experienced.



One of the most important things to me is being honest with myself. And to me saying "i dont know" is the only honest thing you can say when it comes to what you think about stuff that cant be proven or answered by anything except "faith". I also have a friend that will argue constatly with me saying thing like. how can you not know! i can just sense it. i can feel his presense, and stuff about having a religious experience. But if he had been another religion he would be saying the same things. He doesent realize that what he may be feeling doesent have to be god, it can be some spiritual or a spritual experience, but its only god or jesus because that the only thing he can relate it to. People dont like the idea of not being able to explain certain things so they automatically block it out, they are afraid of the truth so they jsut cover it up with a false one, and end up folling themselves casue they get so good at it.


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Vulture]
    #1602717 -

kottenmouth?

i agree with you completely....that the same way i feel. We judge ourselves....and all that. I dont know about the ICP stuff tho....ive only herd some stuff by them and it didnt seem very nice....seems like it goes against everything you just said. Most of the "jugaloos" ive seen and know are pretty fucking stupid and some of the meanest ignorent people i know. Spritituality has never crossed there minds. But thats just the ones i know...i cant jsut what i dont really know.

but one thing i kinda dissagree with is that our sould "just know" whats right and wrong and stuff like that. I think they do....but i also think that everyone "just knows" wahts right and whats wrong. Mabe im jsut one of those wise souls but i jsut dont get how our sould could become any wiser if they already knew EVERYTHING. i think we judge ourselves every day. We may brush it off or avoid thinking about it...but we know what right adn whats wrong. And when we die we expereince all that and automatically judge ourselves based on that. If we live bad lives...then that experience will be bad. It just kinda sounded like you contradicted yourself there somehow.

maby some dont know whats right from wrong and improve on that when they die and come back. but mabe not.

i think our afterlife is directly connected with this life but its jsut multiplied an infinite amout of times. I belive that we all become one. but its getting kinda late and im tired of typing so i wont explain that too much.

jsut use the philophy of our life (and everything liveing) being a raindrop falling towards an ocean. And death is when we hit the ocean.....there is no longer a raindrop...only the ocean.


Also LSD, the more i read about it the more like it seem life sythesized death....or god...or everything and nothing at the same time, infinite. Read the tumbprint thread and you will get what i mean.

everything = nothing

nothing = everything

infinite = nothing and everything

before life we experince nothing.....after we experience everything. Therefore we are infinite.

god = infinite

the universe is merely the physical representation of god.

nothing, everything, infinite, god, and the universe = perfect

(not saying people or society is perfect)


get it?


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1602744 -

goosebumps...

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Grav]
    #1602779 -

hehe what if i wonder if there is anything on earth that is living that we wouldent think is. I saw on tv how scientists are revaluating the characterisctics of life because all we know is whats on earth or what we have been tought....we could go somewhere and see somthing thats alive and think its just some kind of Crystal thing comming out of the ground when its merely and tree of a silocone based life form that takes millions of years to grow a couple inches.


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Vulture]
    #1602794 -

yeah, they arent juggalo's if they aint got love. your right in what you think of the life review, i think thats the way it is as well, we are constantly judging ourselves even if we dont directly realize it, and in the end we see where we had the choice to be good or bad in a certain situation, so we would have nobody to blame but ourselves. I dont know what you mean about me contradicting myself, i dont understand what your trying to say. i think that we DID exsist before we were born, because i also believe that we chose what experiences we would have on earth, and what people we would meet, what choices we would have to make, where we live in the world...etc. We are not supposed to remember such shit because if we knew then what the fuck is the point of living. We must be vieled of our prior knowledge before birth.

you should really consider reading some of the info at http://www.near-death.com i would have to say its the best source for spirituality information, because of the wise mother fuckers at the board and all the NDE's listed

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1602889 -

Throw out the idea of god being a big guy in a chair up in heaven for a second - if God can be described as EVERYthing - the trees, the rocks, basically REALITY, then technically, God knows everything, beause God IS everything. The word "God" is a simple word used by simple minds to explain things too completx to understand. It's a copout. Nothing more, nothing less. To some it brings great hope that life and all it's suffering has an ultimate purpose and that in the end how we live matters. Does it? No one can decide.

One thing I KNOW for sure (an absolute truth if you will) -- You might as well have fun throughout life, cause you ain't gonna make it out alive!


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: nubious]
    #1602993 -

ok well your not supposed to think about god in the christian sense when you saying he is everything. More like a budhist sense.



also here is a thought from someone in another forum



Quote:
My view of Life is that Life is the Universe's answer to Entropy. Entropy being the law that says energy dissipates rather than accumulates.

Life stands in opposition to the physical nature of the universe because all energy in the universe dissipates. The stars are "dying" because they are losing more energy than they accumulate. Life on the other hand is based on the foundation of a self replicating molecule (DNA) which basically takes energy from the environment, copies itself, then the copies move around and repeat the process indefinantly.

The "trapping of energy" that life represents is a second layer to the universe. Once energy is trapped in a system, as it is in the body, it gives rise to the potential for sensory feedback loops, which in turn give rise to the third layer of the universe: Consciousness.

What is consciousness? The experience of illusion. Nothing that lacks consciousness can experience illusion and falsehood. If I drop a rock it will fall everytime; the sole experience of the rock is its interaction with the binding laws of the universe, laws that it can't disobey.

Art exists throughout all human culture because it represents the experience of illusion. Illusion is the reverse concept of natural law.

From this perspective, reality and future reality can be viewed on these levels.

1. The Universe (Energy and natural laws)

2. Life. Construction of energy which exploits natural law with the purpose of defying it.

3. Consciousness. Formed by the "exploitation" of natural law. A construct which gives rise to free will--ie the capability to openly oppose nature.





Life and Consciousness are not "accidents"--neither were we created by God. God is not pervasive in the human psyche because it created us--it is pervasive because it is the universes intention that we create an entity capable of "completing the circle"--preserving the existence of the universe against the decay of its own laws.

How do I think we should go about achieveing this?

Teehee!



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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1603098 -

Prayer worked for me when I was a little kid, I would pray to God that I wanted a Ninja Turtles video game for Christmans and I made sure to say the prayer really loud so my mom..errr... God could hear me loud and clear up in heaven :grin:

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1603520 -

"You don't have to DO anything."

I have to eat, dude.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1603755 -

Yeah, and you have to piss, s**t, and burp too, but doing those things won't help you to Realize God either.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Are some people not meant to believe in god? [Re: ]
    #1604149 -

I used to believe in the Christian God, but as I stopped denying my innate ability to reason I began to purposefully question everything. At one point I got around to the God question, it could not stand the test of reason so I abandoned it as a relic of an immature mind.

The universe is what it is, to attempt to comprehend it by assigning anthropomorphic qualities (like consciousness, intention and purpose) instead of discovering it's true nature hinders my understanding and intellectual growth. I am ignorant and will not paper over my ignorance with dogma, blind faith or unsubstantiated conjecture to bring me spiritual comfort. Spirituality, love and mystery (more so than as a believer) all remain. If I hold anything 'sacred' it is human existence, this life of possibilities and of boundless potential.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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