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OfflineNymphaea
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Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment?
    #10655827 - 07/11/09 12:53 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

At certain points in a drug, notably psychedelic drug, experience are there genuine (or perhaps not) experiences of enlightenment.

Maybe there is no real enlightenment, but perhaps there is some condition that exists in the vast pool of consciousness that is the ultimate evolution/form of consciousness.  Maybe drugs can let us experience it, albeit temporarily.

If this is so then how should we utilize this to better society/the Earth/the Universe?

I'm really high.  :vaped:


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:huxleyfacepalm:


Plant Trees

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10655837 - 07/11/09 12:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Peace. Love. Unity. Respect.

who knows man, but if it works for you and you enjoy it, i say go for it.


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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10655983 - 07/11/09 01:38 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

---------------------------------------------------Hallucinogens unlock the door to your subconscious. Going against your ego and taking the first step, is all up to you.  "Enlightenment" is a term the ego has coined, as an ultimate spiritual unobtainable goal. I think this particular door can only be unlocked through the use of hallucinogens.

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10656094 - 07/11/09 02:14 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

here's a hint:  stop the -----------------thing.  highly annoying.  It's a chore to read your posts. 

enlightenment comes from sniffing a crayon as a kid.  do You remember?  kindergarten I sniffed a crayon and I knew everything that I should know and everything that mattered.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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InvisibleDug a Sprogie
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10656102 - 07/11/09 02:16 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

C.M. Mann said:
---------------------------------------------------Hallucinogens unlock the door to your subconscious. Going against your ego and taking the first step, is all up to you.  "Enlightenment" is a term the ego has coined, as an ultimate spiritual unobtainable goal. I think this particular door can only be unlocked through the use of hallucinogens.




:cop:

I disagree in the sense that enlightenment is subjective

Edited by Dug a Sprogie (07/11/09 02:17 AM)

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Dug a Sprogie]
    #10656108 - 07/11/09 02:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yo, don't be that guy.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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InvisibleDug a Sprogie
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #10656114 - 07/11/09 02:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

youbreakyoubuy said:
yo, don't be that guy.




Sorry i dont really think hes a cop if thats what you mean?

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Dug a Sprogie]
    #10656121 - 07/11/09 02:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yes. that's what I mean.  I don't think that enlightenment is subjective either.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #10656196 - 07/11/09 02:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

-----------------------------------------------Seems to me there is a very simple solution to your problem! I don't know why you are complaining to me?    :bigblunt:

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #10656199 - 07/11/09 02:52 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i'm not complaining.  just stating a fact.  I doubt that anybody would disagree with me either.

also, I don't really give a shit.  you keep doing what you do.  I'll :heart: you anyway


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10656248 - 07/11/09 03:03 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Psychedelics can give glimpses that theres more to life than we previously thought

You have to find the 'something more' while sober otherwise you'll never integrate it into your daily life

A glimpse through a keyhole while your mind is under the influence of a turbulent drug cant compare to the open expanse of panaoramic vision while sober

For example i can experience my pure being as a flash while on shrooms, the next day i forget all about it, but if i see my pure being while meditating sober the impact it has on my life is incredible, the ripple effect is much more profound while sober


:peace:


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10656304 - 07/11/09 03:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Drugs, intense emotions, life, gives you a glimpse of enlightment. I'm convinced we are all born enlightened, during life we create emotional blockages which we call our ego or personality which prevents you from thinking clear. When you take shrooms you get a burst of energy which clears some of those blockages.. intense emotions can do the same, like an orgasm for example, but those are all very temporarly.

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Invisiblesterbeklang
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #10656898 - 07/11/09 08:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I thought it about it one day and I think the only "truth" I've learned from drugs is that there are a million relativistic points of view and I need to keep being myself, because some part of me knows what I'm doing.


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OfflineLion
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10656929 - 07/11/09 08:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to see one of the most important criteria of a state which could be called enlightenment as the end of suffering in the mind-stream, and this is something I have not experienced on any psychedelic.  (That's not to say I know all or any of the criteria of this theoretical state, nor am I experienced with anywhere near the full continuum of psychedelic mind-states.)


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineNymphaea
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10657254 - 07/11/09 10:06 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Psychedelics can give glimpses that theres more to life than we previously thought

You have to find the 'something more' while sober otherwise you'll never integrate it into your daily life

A glimpse through a keyhole while your mind is under the influence of a turbulent drug cant compare to the open expanse of panaoramic vision while sober

For example i can experience my pure being as a flash while on shrooms, the next day i forget all about it, but if i see my pure being while meditating sober the impact it has on my life is incredible, the ripple effect is much more profound while sober


:peace:




My Dad, who is a very thoughtful and spiritual Christian guy, disagrees with using intoxicating drugs because he says they offer false, temporary, and ultimately destructive spiritual experiences.  He lobbies me instead to find the "natural high" as he calls it which he says is much more satisfying in the end and can only improve your life. 

Needless to say I disagree with him on many topics, but I can see where he is coming from.

But I think drugs should be used as tools by people who are looking to expand their mind.  Meditation, fasting, and everything else is necessary, but I would have never been turned on to these things without my use of drugs in the first place.  Everyone I know who dabbles in psychedelics or just occasionally smokes weed is (on average) more artistic, more articulate, and generally more interested in a variety of subjects.  I have seen more positive change come into the lives of friends then negative from drugs.  But that is just the people I associate with, I know there are plenty of abusers out there.

I will always be searching for my sober life's "something more".


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:huxleyfacepalm:


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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10657456 - 07/11/09 11:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Psychedelic drugs can provide insight and a deeper understanding but this will not necessarily change who you are. If you're going to take something from the experience you have to learn to apply yourself in your everyday sober life. Usually the insight and deeper understanding only lasts for the duration of the trip and maybe a few days after unless we start to put what we have learned into practice. Psychedelic drugs give you a glimpse of enlightenment and only you can make a change.

Psychedelic drugs are tools that must be used and not abused. What I love best about psychedelic drugs is that they inspire me in ways that nothing else can. When I trip I see ways that I can improve my way of life. I find a new appreciation for the simple things in life. I experience increased amounts of creativity, both artistically and socially.

Something that makes it very obvious to me that psychedelic drugs give us a glimpse of enlightenment is that when I trip during a time in my life when I am not meditating enough, going for walks or getting enough exercise I feel somewhat guilty and I find myself making promises to myself that I will do more of these things in the future. If I trip again shortly after without doing what I promised myself I would do I become even more upset with myself as I dwell on this issue, sometimes for several hours. I honestly do not believe that I would've discovered meditation without psychedelics. Psychedelics turned me onto a life of self betterment that serves me very well.

Psychedelic drugs have helped me overcome many fears in life such as fear of death and fear of change. They also help me find a sense of integrity that I do not believe I would've found without these drugs, at least I wouldn't have found such integrity this early in life.

My musical abilities would not be what they are without my psychedelic experiences. Music that I wrote during a trip serves as a beautiful reminder of the experience somehow making it easier to take what I've learned from a trip and apply it to my everyday sober life.

If we do not take the initiative and make a change in our lives, psychedelic drug use can just become another one of those endless loop's.

Edited by zen buddy (07/11/09 11:18 AM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10658111 - 07/11/09 01:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

They just give you glimpses of your self importance, and you mistake this for enlightenment.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #10658161 - 07/11/09 01:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Speak for yourself!

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InvisibleExistence
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10662412 - 07/12/09 10:37 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think enlightenment is an understanding of reality. You can learn what reality is while on psychedelics and you can learn what stops you from getting there while sober. It can give you a glimpse but until you understand what is stopping you from being there in a sober state it is only a glimpse.

I am really hungover. I hope that makes sense.

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Existence]
    #10662616 - 07/12/09 11:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There is a reason chaps like Huxley and Leary took large amounts of lysergic acid before they awaited death.  There is definitely something to be said for that.

Enlightenment seems kinda dull to me.  Discovery is what tickles my soul.  How could I ever be absolutely content in my knowledge?  That seems to cheapen the wonderous, brief time that these molecules have coalesced in the cosmos to become You.  There is always something more to figure out.  Not just in knowledge, but also application.  Engineers, bitches.

God was, at first, an Engineer, but then he got all artsy and emo about 2000-6000 years ago, and fucked us all up because he couldn't get shit right the first time. 

The universe will never be the same, ever again, from this moment on, ever again.  Everything evolves, and it is dynamic, and it is probably unbounded.  There is always something new evolving, and always something new to learn. 

No one can know it all, in our short mortal time.  The best we can do is pass it down thought our generations.  We save them the work of what came before.
Fuck.  I am  sooooooo :ganja: stupid right naow.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10662799 - 07/12/09 11:58 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nymphaea said:
I will always be searching for my sober life's "something more".




Good, but...
Come to end of the search!
Find it, then call off the search!
The main obstacle (if there is one) to enlightenment is to keep seeking for something other than Self

If truth is what you seek then where you are looking from is what you are looking for.
As how can truth be at a distance from You?
Seeing this the search for some 'thing' ends & then your Being will shine purity out of every pore...the mind when desireless just reflects what Is

No intent, just This

:peace:


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Edited by Chronic7 (07/12/09 03:46 PM)

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OfflineNymphaea
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10662953 - 07/12/09 12:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think what you are trying to say is that I must find it within myself.  And I agree to an extent.

But maybe we must do more then find inner peace.  We search for something, we find it, and then what?  I believe we must apply it in some way.

I believe in bettering society and bettering myself and the rest of everyone else, who is willing, in a spiritual way.

I believe we have to constantly think and constantly discover.  I search for more knowledge and "enlightenment".  I meditate and I look within myself.  But the more I do that the more I find that I value everyone else and everything else more then myself.

Maybe you are right, and I want you to know that I take your words to heart.


--------------------
:huxleyfacepalm:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10663025 - 07/12/09 01:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

resonance and coexistence of ideas and sensations provide insights but it is not the same as enlightenment


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #10663878 - 07/12/09 03:54 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nymphaea said:
I think what you are trying to say is that I must find it within myself.  And I agree to an extent.

But maybe we must do more then find inner peace.  We search for something, we find it, and then what?  I believe we must apply it in some way.

I believe in bettering society and bettering myself and the rest of everyone else, who is willing, in a spiritual way.

I believe we have to constantly think and constantly discover.  I search for more knowledge and "enlightenment".  I meditate and I look within myself.  But the more I do that the more I find that I value everyone else and everything else more then myself.

Maybe you are right, and I want you to know that I take your words to heart.




the more you see within the more you see that within is where change happens from, it may seem that rearranging whats outside changes the environment, but when you touch your centre, the power from that touching will realign all your external 'stuff' with the centre, the vibration of your being enters a new flow, i hate how new agey that sounds but its what i feel

i want to say that looking within is not to curse whats external to you & leave it to rot, its just to correct your position as Being, and not being this or that particular thing, as when Being shines by itself with no object as a mirror of identity, it shines tremendously

'like a million suns'

:peace:


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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10663889 - 07/12/09 03:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Those in search of a light at the end of the tunnel, stop and look within.

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Do drugs give us glimpses of enlightenment? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10663903 - 07/12/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

within you, without you

No distance to cover

:peace:


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