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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1624721 - 06/10/03 10:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

ok, allow me to define my "personal" enlightment...it's when all concerns about the self cease... when all desires are gone (not repressed but simply gone - dissapeared), when all suffering is gone, when all pain is gone, and all that is left is awe, bliss, scared amazement at every single thing that one can percieve... an overwhelming "suchness" of things...when u look at the most ordinary thing and your jaw drops open because u are stunned at it's presence and magnificence... when u feel overwhelmed by joy and extacy... dizzy and intoxicated with the sheer delight of being here, in this moment, aware... eternally grateful to have glimpsed the sacred... a state of the universe...to have been a part of it and to have embraced it......... to have dissolved in love......


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1624729 - 06/10/03 10:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Enlightenment...
is not a commodity.
is not a place.
is not even a noun.

It is therefore not attainable and you can never get "there".
If you think it is something that you can put on your cosmic resume, you have it all wrong.
If you think there is only one path, you have it all wrong.
If you give a shit about whether or not one is enlightened, you have it all wrong.

But hey... that's merely my two cents... and I'm just an asshole "skeptic".


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Sev]
    #1624776 - 06/10/03 10:48 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

so one component of enlightenment is knowing how long it's going to last?


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: What's the meaning of life? [Re: Sev]
    #1624784 - 06/10/03 10:51 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)


It's a test of our ability to resolve conflict.
Those of us who can resolve conflict inclusively can go on to greater power, and those of us who's serenity depends on exclusive tactics can not be trusted with greater power.

Perhaps this is the dumping ground for souls who transgress the Law and depend exclusive resolution...Look around...Ain't it so?
It's the single common trait of humanity


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: What's the meaning of life? [Re: castaway]
    #1624814 - 06/10/03 10:59 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

for me, enlightenment would be a permenant change of perception. A complete
tranformation of the self. There would be no "going back" that would make no sense.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1624840 - 06/10/03 11:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

define enlightenment, please


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: CleverName]
    #1624846 - 06/10/03 11:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I did, up above in the thread...or at least I tried to...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Sclorch]
    #1624852 - 06/10/03 11:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

i agree with sclorch. the experiences in my life that i deem enlightening have simply been moments of self-realisation followed with a sincere resolve to apply my newfound (not necessarily, more later) "discovery" to my future actions/interactions/thought patterns.

many times I am guilty, as i am sure many are, of having a self-realisation yet failing to make a steadfast effort towards self-progression. it is a form of denial. a type of procrastination that generally results in a "re-discovery" of the same damn lesson. IME failing to make a positive change based on self-discovery leaves one in a stupid loop where they will come to terms with their "deficiency" repeatedly until a postive change is made and then one will simply move to a new discovery where they have the choice of making further positive change or remaining in denial

the argument i presented earlier was that sometimes a discovery may seem "enlightening" but when the principles are applied they fall short or fail dismally. a gross example is the Atkin's diet (0 carbs and practically unregulated fats and proteins for those in the dark). On the surface the concept appears enlightening. A new methodology for weight control. At first it seems to work but in the end it proves futile to intentionally cut a significant part of your diet out completely. While you may lose weight you have effectively put yourself in a state of denial. A denial of the fact that there is no suitable replacement for a properly regulated COMPLETE diet coupled with the equivalent amount of physical exertion.

one who claims to be completely enlightened has simply withdrawn themselves from society in some form. monks for example. of course they have reached some level of ultimate enlightenment because they have a very limited interaction with the world around them and can focus on minute discrepancies. enlightenment is a life-long journey that is unique to every individual and can only be attained by personal experience and endeavor.

I can see that many of my above statements appear as though i think i'm stating some sort of fact. i can only relate my own point of view on what enlightement is to me.

BTW, i don't give a rat's ass if I can call myself enlightened but I do strive to integrate concepts i find particularly interesting or beneficial into my own stream of conciousness.


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OfflineBetMomIsProud
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Registered: 05/15/03
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Re: What's the meaning of life? [Re: lucid]
    #1624862 - 06/10/03 11:12 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, just a little disertation here. Drug use is forced conciousness expansion, not enlightenment. Enlightenment is a purely mental thing, like figuring something out. Conciousness expansion is the basis for Nirvana and Zen. This goal is achieved through many years of training in meditation. I know Practicers of the Wiccan religion that achieve tripping visuals and mindsets through extensive meditation practices. The reason drug users (like us) don't have the control in the spiritual world that they do is because we've forced ourselves there. Like in the Matrix, when they dowload Judo and Karate, they may know how to do it, but their bodies haven't had the years of toning and training allowing them to do so. Those monks spend years learning how to manuver in the spiritual world, we a bag of shroomies and get there in 2 hours. You really can't expect to reach true expansion like that.


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Nothing is idiot proof. Just need a real talented idiot.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1624978 - 06/10/03 11:41 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Its is said that budda himself, attanded enlightenment by meditating 49 days straight.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Anonymous

Re: What's the meaning of life? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1624983 - 06/10/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

to achieve enlightenment, one must not think and just be


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1625002 - 06/10/03 11:48 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

"Enlightenment," like any "goal," can always be stretched further.. This is nothing unusual to strive for the unobtainable.

Its like scientists trying to figure out what the smallest "thing" is, or the biggest "thing."


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Tao [Re: ]
    #1625006 - 06/10/03 11:49 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

56. Mystical Unity

Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.
Close the mouth; shut the doors.
Smooth the sharpness; untie the tangles.
Dim the glare; calm the turmoil.
This is mystical unity.
Those achieving it are detached from friends and enemies,
from benefit and harm, from honor and disgrace.
Therefore they are the most valuable people in the world.

(bear in mind that this was written for a highly restrictive society where submissiveness was considered a virtue)






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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: nubious]
    #1625068 - 06/11/03 12:17 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

-deleted-


Edited by paradis (06/11/03 12:20 AM)


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Registered: 02/20/02
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ]
    #1625177 - 06/11/03 12:46 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Enlightenment in my belief is NOT a permanment transformation.

Enlightenment is simply an awakening that allows you to see things the way they are. To see things, not necessarily in their TRUEST Form, for that cannot be seen. Instead, enlightenment is percieving things EXACTLY as your senses receieve them. WIthout any inner conflict.

Consider this. We are already enlightened. Everyone on this planet. However - our enlightenment gets filtered through our Ego, Filtered through our Ignorance, Filtered through our fear, Filtered through our doubt, Filtered through our Mental Blocks.

After all the filtering - we rarely catch glimpses of true enlightenment, HOWEVER it was there the whole time!




So yes, technically enlightenment lasts forever, but its ALREADY there. It never left us. We were born with it, but now its hidden. Its being filtered by the things I mentioned.


One psychedelic trip may let enlightenment shine through, but your filters eventually return to normal. If you practice something everyday that will break these things, or practice several things - its POSSIBLE to retain your enlightened state for as long as you practice them.

Perphaps once you practice so much ,you no longer need to practice anymore - this is what I believe happened to buddha.


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ]
    #1625183 - 06/11/03 12:47 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

enlightenment:
n 1: education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge




then i consider myself to be that


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ]
    #1625283 - 06/11/03 01:13 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

"Its is said that budda himself, attanded enlightenment by meditating 49 days straight."

religious propaganda. buddhism is no different than chrisitianity in the sense that it contains an institution with a government and a heirarchy that depends on economic success in order to sustain its existance.

have you ever been to asia, anyone? do you know how elitest buddhist monks are?

go to asia, see all the enlightened buddhist monks driving in their brand new lexus sedans.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Edited by atomikfunksoldier (06/11/03 01:19 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1625321 - 06/11/03 01:25 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

atomikfunksoldier makes a interesting point.

I bet there are many eastern equivalents of those on this board that bash Buddhism and point to all the good things Christianity has to offer.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ]
    #1625338 - 06/11/03 01:32 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)


I think there is no one single truth to the megaverse- It's like a layered concept that can never be totally achieved because there are so many 'layers'.

I just try to grasp as much of the 'bigger pitcure' as I can.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Murex]
    #1625353 - 06/11/03 01:39 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

exactly Murex.

Thats why I say enlightenment is not seeing things AS THEY ARE IN THEIR TRUEST FORM.

Because as long as you percieve things with your senses, which is how ALL living beings according to my knowledge function ; you are still just PERCEIVING. Perception is interpretation.

However, we CAN see things exactly as our senses bring them in, and act accordingly, without interference. This is enlightenment in my opinion. It goes beyond emotions EFFECTING our lives - it may sound like a bad thing, but its not.

I, and probably everyone Ive ever met - does NOT see things clearly. Our mind is so congested that we very rarely if ever live in the moment and just percieve things, without judging, fearing, or our mind doing extra tasks.


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