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InvisibleIcelander
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Am I enlightened?
    #4521541 - 08/11/05 07:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Does Enlightenment exist? Is it possible to "awaken"? If so what is that like? I have thought about this alot. I have had my own experience of unbounded freedom and joy, oneness with the divine, a state of timeless grace. Then I came down. It didn't last. My realization and awakening showed me the reality of the world and brought a transformation in me. But the experience passed.

In the past I assumed that my experience was not enlightenment but something less. I have just been reading a book by Jack Kornfield, called: After the Ecstasy, the Laundry. He states that there is no such thing as enlightened retirement. That is not how it happens.

Jack is Buddhist, but quotes from many sources, Zen Buddhism, Jewish mystics, Hindu, Christians, Sufi, Scientists, Poets, even Castanada. This is a good read.

My conclusion here is that enlightenment is the awareness that we are all enlightened naturally, and that awareness is only a step away. At one time or another in your life you may experience that "step" . If you do, you may properly say you have been enlightened. Then you go on being yourself, with your struggles and with your everyday challenges. But now you know what you are, and that sets you on a path toward your beloved. Which in my view is Unconditional Love. :heart:

I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521605 - 08/11/05 07:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i agree with ramana maharshi on the issue. i dont feel like trying to put it in my own words right now so ill just post this http://www.hinduism.co.za/freedom&.htm. i think its saying the same thing you're saying so youll probably like it but i dont like topics asking "is there enlightenment" because its a matter of samantics. if you define enlightenment to be something than of course there is enlightenment even though an enlightened person may say there is no enlightenment, there is only what is.


Edited by Deviate (08/11/05 08:03 PM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521611 - 08/11/05 08:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I would have to refer you to the Dzogchen Trekchod.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #4521629 - 08/11/05 08:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What is your opinion, from your experience?  Can you sum it up in a few words or a paragraph or two? :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/11/05 08:11 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521638 - 08/11/05 08:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I couldn't open this. Still although it's subjective. I would like your personal views from your life experience, if you are willing.  :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521659 - 08/11/05 08:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If you're enlightened then no more questions exist about whether you're enlightened or not. Sort of like graduating from school. There's no more question of going back to the previous grade.

I still refer you to the Dzogchen Trekchod. I can't really do it justice.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521673 - 08/11/05 08:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hum............. " To be Enlightened "

First I ask myself is Enlightenment a short term thing, a long term thing, a permanent thing, a special thing for only " the chosen " or is something that comes and goes depending on the level of faith, commitment to serving  " God "............. actually this is not what I ask myself but I seem to think this is what others ask in the observance of a Enlightened person. In other words the enlightened person is only as enlightened as he or she knows enlightenment for them. And the outside person does not know anything but what he or she can conclude based on their Ideas, experiences, and opinions. This is what leads to an understanding of what they feel is "Enlightenment" are at that time.

So the outside person can not say what is really going on with another person. Yes there are many clues in a persons behavior that will tell an outsider many things. Some false many true. That aside

I believe that "Enlightenment" is on many levels. Every lesson we learn as humans interacting with each other leads to another state of enlightenment. But I think you are talking about Spiritual growth and Enlightenment to the " God  " or " Being greater then ourselves. The point is that enlightenment comes in many forms and levels.

I would like to share some of my experiences with you which would fall into the this discussion. When I pray in the day to day, it is done as if I talk to a friend or I would talk to my dad. It is a way of staying in touch with my best buddy God. And in this way I am able to access the mind of God and am able to have the right answers before me. This makes me feel as though I am enlightened. That is one level to know the mind of God Thur the Holy spirit.

Then there have been times in my walk with God that I have been " With Spirit " or kinda like saying I have been overtaken by the spirit. Which is a very real and physical thing that feels like hot electricity running Thur my body. This is when my inner spirit prays to God. The bible calls it praying in tongues. Now many people think that is CRAZY.......so did I. I heard people speaking in words I never heard. To be honest I know that there are many people who just repeat sound they heard others speaking. But there was a time in private pray at home I asked God to reveal to me this " Holy spirit " I wan to say that God knows the heart. I was not asking to be " One of the crowd or for some personal reasons for shit I needed " I asked God for this because I wanted to be closer to the God who loved me. Make a long story short....The holy spirit came down on me like a wave of love and it poured into my very being. In a matter of about a half a second I was speaking in a language I have never heard. I don't just mean a few syllables I mean full blow dialect. At first I was somewhat freaked but God reassured me that there was nothing to fear. In any case I am turning this into another discussion. The point is that for me that was the stage in the "getting to know God" where I knew beyond a doubt I had reached a new level... I was enlightened to the spirit and thoughts of God. Not only that but, I had access to the power of God. The power of Love and that is the goal of life for mankind. TO fully understand and live in Love. Enlightenment for me is living in love and dieing daily to my worldly wants. Which I do battle with EVERYDAY.............. But that is where the line is drawn for me. To take every pitfall and learn, to move forward, to be closer to the great Love.. God. God knows the heart and what your intentions are. IT IS INTENT THAT MATTERS TO GOD :smile:

It is through enlightenment from the spirit of God, which is made to all who truly seek it, that higher states of thoughts and reactions to the world can be had. Enlightenment is the state at which one knows that he or she is beyond the mind we are born with.

What happens to me when I am in these higher states of mind ? Well many answers are given. Sometimes answer to questions I never even asked. There have been a few times where I was able to see the inner spirits of people. Some good and some very bad. I am certain this is the place that "things" can happen. It is in the faith of a man that brings him here. Now I have been witness to " miracles " There have been other times I knew to go here or go there. So i went and then found out that this person needs were urgent. God sometimes leads me with blinders on. But the entire point of loving God and being his friend is to trust in him. That even if I don't understand what is happening or where I am going. God will never lead me to harm.


I had better stop here. I have said entirely to much I think.

Bottom line... Enlightenment is being more than you were yesterday. How far you want to go and how fast all depends of the intent of your heart and the desires of your inner man. Enlightenment, deep spiritual enlightenment takes very real commitment and a very real desire to want to know God.

Final thought............... Once gained can you go backwards ? Yes of course and you can go forward also. Enlightenment has no ties to the past only ties to the future. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521688 - 08/11/05 08:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

-en2
suff.

Made of; resembling: earthen.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Gomp]
    #4521717 - 08/11/05 08:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

were you asking my opinion or eve69's? my opinion is that enlightenment is simply what exists minus wrong thinking. when you're enlightened there is no enlightenment, there is just existance.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4521815 - 08/11/05 08:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for your thoughts.

"Final thought............... Once gained can you go backwards ? Yes of course and you can go forward also. Enlightenment has no ties to the past only ties to the future."

__________________________________________________

This is an interesting point. I have often wondered about certain "Guru"  types who have crashed and burned after having quite a run. I would completely write them off if I had not read some of their thoughts and felt they were completely true.  Very interesting, to contemplate this when thinking about what enlightenment could be. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521830 - 08/11/05 08:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521841 - 08/11/05 08:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

and what is divine?



Everything... :heart:

Good Post! More like a vibration away...heh.

I have only read of very few who were enlightened for more than a brief flash. Is it possible to hold onto it? Possibly a natural divine grace could be held on to but I am guessing there have been very few. Probably could count the number on my one hand. Jesus comes to mind. It takes a lot of compassion to turn the other cheek. High on life!

Yes, many of my insights have led towards unconditional love. Whatever it is just plain giving. Don't know how many times pets have helped come to these realizations.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


Edited by mecreateme (08/11/05 08:57 PM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521859 - 08/11/05 08:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ah yes the mind set of eastern thoughts............. I never understood why the idea of " Being Enlightened " meant " Just existence " or " to be with out complete thought " It sounds so silly to me. We as humans are very emotional. We are full of good and bad. We are as we are.

To find some 50 years later after you have been very very still, locked away from the world deep in a mountain range. You have finally got to the point of................... NOTHING..... WTF ? What is the point in that ? We are humans with humans as companions. We are different from the beasts. We all have known this for thousands of years. To denie Love and all that comes with freewill is cowardly to me. (Not bashing anyone OK)

I just think that eastern type thinking is very flawed. In fact I would go so far as to say.......... It sounds like a very easy way to grow old and die without ever having to deal with life love and people. I will say for the people I am pissing on......... I never really studied this far enough to know all the facts. so let me be the first to say I am shooting off at the hip based on my experiences.

I am being somewhat naive and admit to ignorance.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521860 - 08/11/05 08:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?




I am  :grin: Look! It's right abve my avatar.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521881 - 08/11/05 09:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?




I am  :grin: Look! It's right abve my avatar.




But what does divine mean?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521893 - 08/11/05 09:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521903 - 08/11/05 09:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

to me divine means happiness.

Quote:

Ah yes the mind set of eastern thoughts............. I never understood why the idea of " Being Enlightened " meant " Just existence " or " to be with out complete thought " It sounds so silly to me. We as humans are very emotional. We are full of good and bad. We are as we are.

To find some 50 years later after you have been very very still, locked away from the world deep in a mountain range. You have finally got to the point of................... NOTHING..... WTF ? What is the point in that ? We are humans with humans as companions. We are different from the beasts. We all have known this for thousands of years. To denie Love and all that comes with freewill is cowardly to me. (Not bashing anyone OK)

I just think that eastern type thinking is very flawed. In fact I would go so far as to say.......... It sounds like a very easy way to grow old and die without ever having to deal with life love and people. I will say for the people I am pissing on......... I never really studied this far enough to know all the facts. so let me be the first to say I am shooting off at the hip based on my experiences.

I am being somewhat naive and admit to ignorance.




are you speaking from experience or just speculating? studying eastern principles seems to have helped me reach a fuller experience of life in which i am more able to interact with people and give them my love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521910 - 08/11/05 09:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

As I am very pragmatic, I just skip enlightenment and do the laundry. It saves a step  :tongue2:.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521915 - 08/11/05 09:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"I am being somewhat naive and admit to being ignorant"

Translates to........... I am speculating from very limited experience about this.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4521920 - 08/11/05 09:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:




so only humans can be divine?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4521925 - 08/11/05 09:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i think thats the whole point of enlightenment swami. in other words thats exactly what an enlightened person would do while the unenlightened would fret over becomming enlightened and how to squeeze in time for laundry. or is that the point you were making?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521934 - 08/11/05 09:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Finding Ecstasy in the Downy Softness of It All" by Swami, coming soon to a Barnes and Noble near you!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4521942 - 08/11/05 09:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
As I am very pragmatic, I just skip enlightenment and do the laundry. It saves a step  :tongue2:.




But you need more soap. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4522023 - 08/11/05 09:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Everything?

Can I say it one more time:

Quote:

Everything




Everything is divine. Not just you.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: mecreateme]
    #4522033 - 08/11/05 09:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: Yes! we don't have knowledge what goes on in other animals and life forms, but it is divine also. The divine is expressed in us according to our nature.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4522043 - 08/11/05 09:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This is taken from "Cleansing the Doors of Perception" by Huston Smith.

"Thus far I have defined a realized human being, what the Indians call a jivamukta. It remains to describe one. What would it feel like to be such a person, and how would one appear to others?

Basically, she lives in the unvarying presence of the numinous. This does not mean that she is excited or "hyped"; her condition has nothing to do with adrenaline flow or manic states that call for depressive ones to balance the emotional account. It's more like what Kipling had in mind when he said of one of his characters, 'He believed that all things were one big miracle, and when a man knows that much he knows something to go upon.' The opposite of the sense of the sacred is not serenity or sobriety. it is drabness; taken-for-grantedness. Lack of interest. The humdrum and prosaic. The deadly sin of acedia.

All other attributes of a realized being must be relativized against this one absolute: an acute sense of the astonishing mystery of everything. Everything else we say of him must have a yes/no quality. Is he always happy? Well, yes and no. On one level he emphatically is not; if he were, he couldn't 'weep with those who mourn' - he would be an unfeeling monster, a callous brute. If anything, a realized soul is MORE in touch with the grief and sorrow that is part and parcel of the human condition, knowing that it too needs to be accepted and lived as all life needs to be lived. To reject the shadow side of life and pass it by with averted eyes, refusing our share of common sorrow while expecting our share of common joy, would cause the unlived, closed-off shadows in us to deepen into fear, including the fear of death.

...

If a jivamutka isn't forever radiating sweetness and light, neither does he constantly emit blasts of energy. He can be forceful when need be; we find it restoring rather than draining to be around him, and he has reserves to draw on, as when Socrates stood all night in trance and outpaced the militia with bare feet on iec. In general, though, we sense him as compsed rather than charged - the model of the dynamic and magnetic personality tends to have a lot of ego in it for needing to be noticed. Remember: everything save the adept's access to inner vistas, the realms of gold I am calling the sacred unconscious, must be relativized. if leadership is called for, he steps forward; if not, he is pleased to follow. He isn't debarred from being a guru, but he doesn't need disciples to prop up his ego. Focus or periphery, limelight or shadow, it doesn't really matter. both have their opportunities, both the demands they exact.

All these relativities that I have mentioned - happiness, energy, prominence, impact - pertain to the jiveamukta's finite self which she progressively pushes aside as she makes her way toward her sacred unconscious. As her goal is an impersonal, impartial one, her identification with it involves a dying to her finite selfhood. Part of her being is engaged in a perpetual vanishing act, as Coormaraswamy suggested when he wrote, 'Blessed is the man on whose tomb can be written, 'Hic jacet nemo', here lies no one.'"


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: dblaney]
    #4522063 - 08/11/05 09:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: I like.
__________________

'Hic jacet nemo', here lies no one.'"
__________________________

I want this one on my grave stone ( don't really want a gravestone)

"Once I wasn't.
Then I was.
Now I ain't again.    :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4522072 - 08/11/05 10:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i think thats the whole point of enlightenment swami. in other words thats exactly what an enlightened person would do while the unenlightened would fret over becomming enlightened and how to squeeze in time for laundry. or is that the point you were making?

Um, yeah! That's exactly what I was saying. How would you like to be appointed vice-guru?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4522093 - 08/11/05 10:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

WAAAIT a minute...didn't you promise that job to Diploid?

I sense a mutiny brewing...


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Offlinebubbles
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4522129 - 08/11/05 10:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lovely thoughts guys :grin:, id say id say enlightenment is being in the here and now and not even considering going back. present moment with a timeless twist. contains everything on every level. the enlightenenment concept is unecessary, just be. when humans stopped taking magic mushrooms on a self medicating basis :shroomer: we developed complex language patterns, literature and money:satan:. this shaped our reality, we fractioned away from other animals and from being directly (still a bit) aware of gaia and gaia's ermm... "thoughts". we developed our own collective human consciousness or unconsciousness depending on the attitude of the human in question. we lost a part of our selves, on the up side DAMN do we have a lot to show for it . i wonder if the planet does think we are out of control.

...anyway i think the easiest way to remain "enlightened" is meditation or activities that give the brain some air, activities that provide mental stimulation, awareness expansion e.g. hallucinogens:psychsplit:, lucid dreaming or other forms of meditation and lastly psysical activity (your bodys just a vessle but it shouldn't be overlooked).

apart from that... have good friends, don't take work 2 seriously and dont shirk away from difficult situations.

love is difficult, i dont like the word. without drugs iv only had a few definate experiences of loving the universe and it loving me back. and since my 1st experince of it i have had problems with taking other peoples "love" seriously. especially when its supposed to apply to me.

i only meant to write a quick one liner. goood thread

:hippie: peace :peace:


--------------------
"the modeling chalenge for the future is human history. we will no longer be playing games, we will be proposing actual models and methods to begin to shape the world" Terence McKenna

"Yes, but no sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall KILL you" stewie griffin


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4523259 - 08/12/05 02:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
there is no such thing as enlightened retirement




:thumbup:


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OfflineLiquid_Silver
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4523490 - 08/12/05 03:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:




Wow beautiful thread man.

This post is also Beautiful, If you can't call this, the one description for "Divine" then you may want to look deeper in. The beauty in the post, and what the speaker is trying to say, and what it actually means is incredibly beautiful and I think with in it's own right Divine.

5 Shrooms for every one. If I could.


Edited by Liquid_Silver (08/12/05 03:51 AM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4523913 - 08/12/05 06:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:




so only humans can be divine?





Hum...... No I think any creature is divine when it is what is was meant to be. That it is at the piniacle of the purpouse for which it was created. Divine is liken to perfection or the end of the path has been achieved.

God is a Divine being as was Jesus or I should say Jesus became Divine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4524144 - 08/12/05 07:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"everything communes with everything, through light.."
-Unknwon :smile:


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4524815 - 08/12/05 09:11 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To be in a state of perputal Love.

No comprende.

If you are not personally in a state of perpetual love then you cannot state that is what enlightenment is. If you were in a perpetual state of love then ALL of your comments and actions would reflect this state.

Please explain this contradiction.


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4524929 - 08/12/05 09:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Steps to enlightenment.

1. Go to a surgeon.

2. Have surgeon amputate your ego.

3. There's no step 3.

There's no step 3?!


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4524976 - 08/12/05 09:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Icelander

The term 'enlightenment' has been polluted by being thrown around for 10,000 years. There is no way any of us can know exactly what you are asking. Can you put your question into words without using that term?

You also ask if it is possible to awake (up from our conditioning?). Do you consider this a seperate question, or a different way to ask the same question? Have you thought if this is the same question or a different question?

I think I detect some muddy thinking (or use of terminology) in your question. It is impossible to get a clear answer to a muddy question. You need to clarify what you are asking. I might have a couple interesting thoughts on this if I can get at what you are actually asking.


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: tomk]
    #4525329 - 08/12/05 11:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The term 'enlightenment' has been polluted by being thrown around for 10,000 years.

Wrong! Do you just make stuff up?


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4525703 - 08/12/05 04:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What I mean is that so many people use it to mean so many different things that each of us is going to have a different thing in our heads when we hear that term. So, we need to clarify the definition, so that we all have the same thing in our heads when he uses this term. I'm only wrong if you deliberately take the most obtuse reading possible just to be a pain in the ass. You wouldn't do that, would you Swami?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Gomp]
    #4525708 - 08/12/05 04:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
"everything communes with everything, through light.."
-Unknwon :smile:




Eckhart Tolle could have said this. But he didn't :grin: I think this idea is worth exploring in another thread. I have talked about this idea before. Gomp  :thumbup: :heart:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4525713 - 08/12/05 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I like the idea of unconditional love, to totally accept. Not having judgemental thoughts of what "is"  In this way, we can see "enlightenment" as "lightening up the load" for the mind.  Another way you can look at it is to "shed some light" on different ideas, points of views, etc.  There can be many more references towards enlightenment, but it's only a word. Enlightenment is another label, a label for a state of mind. This label makes the idea of enlgihtenment as one single step when in fact, it would be more of an unfolding event rather than just a single happening.  :grin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: tomk]
    #4525719 - 08/12/05 04:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Icelander

The term 'enlightenment' has been polluted by being thrown around for 10,000 years. There is no way any of us can know exactly what you are asking. Can you put your question into words without using that term?

You also ask if it is possible to awake (up from our conditioning?). Do you consider this a separate question, or a different way to ask the same question? Have you thought if this is the same question or a different question?

I think I detect some muddy thinking (or use of terminology) in your question. It is impossible to get a clear answer to a muddy question. You need to clarify what you are asking. I might have a couple interesting thoughts on this if I can get at what you are actually asking.




I cannot give a definition of enlightenment that would please all. Nor do I want to because I don't know what enlightenment is. I just have my personal subjective idea of it. Which I shared to the best of my ability.

I do not consider awakening to be a separate question as this is the gist of my definition of enlightenment. Once you see and experience yourself as something beyond your egoic conditioning, then you have been enlightened. Then comes the day to day work of living with that knowledge. This part is a process of further opening to this experience of a more complete experience of self. You will still suffer and experience confusion and in effect be everything that is human. But you will have path that previously you did not know existed, (except maybe in theory) to follow if you so choose. I believe it is likely that you will choose it be cause it involves the experience of unconditional love, which is a bliss feeling that nothing else compares with. But this knowledge can fade if you slip too far back into old egoic patterns. That's why IMO many "enlightened masters" fall. They loose the tract toward love. I experience this losing track many times throughout my day. I continue to follow a path with heart because I love it beyond what I have had before. My old way of living seems empty in many respects. There is no guarantee that I will continue on this path. That is the challenge of living out my path.

I hope this clears up my position somewhat.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4525897 - 08/12/05 06:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Don Jaun, in the book Tales of Power, finds his apprentice on the edge of his first journey into the unknown on his own.  At this point he tells him that returning to this world is a choice he will have to make on his own. And if he chooses to return he will have a path. And that path is determined by his spirit. He may wander unknown throughout the world. He may become powerful or mean and petty. It all depends on his spirit. Then, Don Jaun and Genaro shared their choice of a path with the apprentice. To love the earth with unbending passion. The predilection of two warriors. 

I think enlightenment is like that. You have your experience of the totality of yourself, you return and make your choice, and you follow your path. Your spirit determines how far your path takes you. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4527566 - 08/13/05 03:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

who wants to know?


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4527577 - 08/13/05 03:16 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Me! :grin: Whoever that is? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4527604 - 08/13/05 03:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I tend to agree with that view.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4527927 - 08/13/05 05:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Fuck Tolle BTW.  Fuck that fucking fucker.  :thumbdown: to new age gooblygook.

Although, his contention that gay men and women are much more open to enlightenment type experiences is very interesting.


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"I am eternally free"


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: tomk]
    #4527938 - 08/13/05 05:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:rofl: Please share more thoughts on E.T.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4528249 - 08/13/05 07:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Um.

Seeking the truth involves, you know, not becoming attached to a mystical experience.

The whole aura of his books reeks.  Combining genuine decent guruish writings with the advertising campaign around these books just reeks.  It reminds me of the prof from harry potter who went around smiling and signing autographs all day.  I'm sure the guy is a genuine guy with some interesting perspectives, but a person really interested in the truth would never surrond his book with the marketing schtik.

You made a comment about seeing ram dass in person and not being impressed because of how he presented himself conflicting with some of his work or something like that.  Maybe I have the same complaint here.  :shrug:


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Swami]
    #4529375 - 08/13/05 03:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
To be in a state of perputal Love.

No comprende.

If you are not personally in a state of perpetual love then you cannot state that is what enlightenment is. If you were in a perpetual state of love then ALL of your comments and actions would reflect this state.

Please explain this contradiction.




I think your picking to much on the word " Perpetual " as I was attempting to make a point. I agree the actual definition of " Perpuetual " probley does not fitt into what I was saying.

Swami, I never said " I was, am or is in perfect enlightenment " or "I have achieved the highest state of  enlightenment."

I can not say what enlightenment is ? Why ? because you have decided that I can't........... Hum..... The discussion is not about me or your absolutions. The thread is about our thoughts on enlightenment not our dictations. :thumbup:

And besides it has been said by a few people already. Enlightenment is a word, not a set of actions or values that are exaclty known by all. It is wide open for all truths to fitt into. What is true for you may be false for others. Unconditional love is very far off and still can be the only Goal a person strives for. That in itself " the path to Love " is a enlightenment isn't it ? Most people don't even take the time to have these talks. So that makes you a person of certian enlightenment in the values of Love............ :heart:


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Offlinebubbles
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: tomk]
    #4529464 - 08/13/05 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Fuck Tolle BTW.  Fuck that fucking fucker.  :thumbdown: to new age gooblygook.

Although, his contention that gay men and women are much more open to enlightenment type experiences is very interesting.




more open to enlightenment type experience? how so? cant imagine the guys form queer eye being spiritually inclined.

iv actually met eckhart tolle, went on a retreat of his in scotland, the people i talked to whilst on the retreat were much more interesting than him. i would rather have done a vision quest or something. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"the modeling chalenge for the future is human history. we will no longer be playing games, we will be proposing actual models and methods to begin to shape the world" Terence McKenna

"Yes, but no sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall KILL you" stewie griffin


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: tomk]
    #4529552 - 08/13/05 05:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Um.

Seeking the truth involves, you know, not becoming attached to a mystical experience.

The whole aura of his books reeks.  Combining genuine decent guruish writings with the advertising campaign around these books just reeks.  It reminds me of the prof from harry potter who went around smiling and signing autographs all day.  I'm sure the guy is a genuine guy with some interesting perspectives, but a person really interested in the truth would never surrond his book with the marketing schtik.

You made a comment about seeing ram dass in person and not being impressed because of how he presented himself conflicting with some of his work or something like that.  Maybe I have the same complaint here.  :shrug:




I hear you.  I liked much his first book. I also noticed the big promo he let surround him.  I think this is again a case of having a real experience, and then falling back into the ego routine.  It takes dedication to stay the course. Then of course we don't have access to him personally to find out exactally where he is at. Which is a hinderance to knowing what is going on.  But I suspect you are correct. That's why I do not attach myself to teachers in total. I take what feels true and then continue on my path.  It's easy to be fooled by someones persona and words. Especially if you don't hang with them. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4529558 - 08/13/05 05:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4529562 - 08/13/05 05:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I like your post. While living unconditional love is something we might not be able to do in each moment. As we focus our hearts in that direction, we are able to do it better with time. That's called evolution. It's how we do it on the material plane. So many people think things are black and white, good or bad. No one is perfect and no one a complete failure. Yet some think that they are one or the other. It is a form of indulging.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4529581 - 08/13/05 05:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes that is exactly right....... I have found that it is in perfect love from God that we are loved by God, he himself has the intention to correct us and guide us even thought it may seem he is crushing us when really he is loving us in perfect love. The intent of the heart of God is to love us..........
The entire concept of " the intent of the heart " is the backbone of the teachings of Christ. While it may appear to people around you your "fucking up" it is the single spot of intent that matters not only to an individual but also to God. We must strive always to be like perfect love even when we make huge mistakes. When the people around us start pointing fingers then is the time to be very aware that the struggle is between ourselves and God. God does not need an explanation he only needs to know what your goal and intentions are.... repeating myself again LOL


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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4529594 - 08/13/05 05:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes,  Actually people that point fingers at you or get under your skin and drive you to outbursts of defensiveness, are also (in your terms) gifts of Gods perfect love. You will learn more from them, about loving, then your best friends at times. They are petty tyrants and teachers. Learn to be open to their gifts (hard to do) and you will grow in Love.  :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4529628 - 08/13/05 05:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

LOL funny you should say that............ I just came back here to expand in that very direction.

You know God is everywhere and he sometimes will use hard stuff to get us to understand a lesson. One of the most hardest things I have to deal with are hardcore debaters and people who refuse to see my point of view, not just to agree with it, but to simply refuse to even think about it. That has always been a struggle for me. I used to be far worse.........

But you are right...
Sometimes, most times when we are letting people get under our skins. We are being exposed to an area of our hearts that is sick and needs healing. The transparency of the heart is a absolute quality if one truly is to move forward. Most of the greatest lesson a person can learn come from allowing themselves to be naked before those that want to do us harm. Even when we know that is there only intention. We must always be aware of the greater lesson to be learned. Not to say that all people who make us feel uncomfortable have the intentions to hurt or humiliate us. Just that it is up to us, the person feeling irritated, to really examine of feelings and why we react the way we have. That in itself is a great part of Love not only for ourselves but for those around us.


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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4533181 - 08/14/05 05:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just read your glossolalia post and enjoyed it. Religious experience rarely (if ever) manifests in completely neutral ways. It seems to be colored by one's religious culture. I went through seminary, but I was not raised in a Christian home, and my psychedelically "occasioned" experiences only once took on a classic Biblically described experience, but it was Old Testament and occurred on a Jewish High Holy Day (since I was raised Jewish). I read your post just now, and it has allowed me to 'realize' why I went on a Tibetan prayer-flag-hanging spree this week.

I had hung a string of 25 small flags against a fence in the back yard, somewhat occulted by palm trees in June. Then, this week, another string of large prayer-flags arrived. I cut them in half and hung 15 between two coconut palms at the end of the pool and 10 more against that fence over the wood pile. Now, the outside front of the house has some pagan art: a large Bacchus relief, a couple of Green Men and a winged pixie holding a bowl of mushrooms while sitting on a large mushroom (well this is not exactly pagan, maybe magickal).

The center of the house - the living room, also has pagan Green Men, but also Egyptian and Greek mythic art as well as Jewish-Christian Gnostic elements - especially at the shrine area.

So, the house seems to symbolize my soul. The front appears to be pagan/magickal; the rear appears to be Tibetan Buddhist and the center which has pagan (read, natural) elements is dominated by a Jewish-Christian [Gnostic] motif. Now my early powerfully transforming psychedelic experiences were magickal (because I was practicing magick - my first 'chosen' faith), then I moved to Buddhism during which time I had a classic Vajrayana experience (which has me wearing an Om Mani Padme Hum ring and bracelet to this day 30+ years later), but Christ in my Heart-of-hearts was 'conveyed' to me by my best friend when we were no older than 5 years old. That Catholic version was reinforced by other beloved neighbors across the street from my folks (whose older daughter was the baby-sitter I was in love with as a child).

Your post sort of triggered this new (howsoever artificial distinction) that the Buddhist influence is a sort of 'glow' or 'glory' of Transpersonal Oceanic Compassion that surrounds the core Christian value of 'Love' - deeply personal as well as Transpersonal. The first, Compassion was experienced during my highest psychedelic experience but Love was mediated through certain key people early in childhood. Thanks for the opportunity to do this thinking out loud. It helped to clarify some things for myself.

I think that my recent house guest, my Lady's step-mom and a fundamentalist, Benny Hinn following Christian, induced a Buddhist expansion in my soul to counteract a rather distasteful version of Christianity: fearful of other faiths and therefore critical, condemning and arrogant  :thumbdown:. I wanted the new prayer-flags to arrive when she was still here (from Germany, and it would seem, she's unlikely to return anytime soon by her comments) because I wanted large images of Chenrezig-Avalokitesvara - Buddha of Compassion - in her condemning face  :smirk:. I wanted to make a non-verbal, highly visual point about her bigotry which is her version of Christianity. The festive-looking blue, white, red, green and yellow flags will remain til they fray apart, sending vibes of Compassion through the aether  :smile:. Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4533224 - 08/14/05 05:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I hear you.  I liked much his first book. I also noticed the big promo he let surround him.  I think this is again a case of having a real experience, and then falling back into the ego routine.




Or, perhaps, it is the case of a person who felt the need to express his insight in a written format and wanted others to have access to it. This person then initiated a symbiotic relationship with an organization that views expressed insight as "product". The organization then distributed the "product" and exchanged it to other individuals for goods. The organization then returns an amount of goods to the person who originally expressed his insight, so that the person (an organization himself) would be able to sustain himself, as is the nature of a symbiotic relationship.

Is there anything inherently wrong with this? What aspect of this contaminates the expressed insight in itself? :confused:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4533263 - 08/14/05 06:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Or what you said. :grin: I thought about that. Of course it's ok, and nothing wrong per se. Of course his intent is important, for him at least and could color his future work. But his message is out in print and even the first book took a "book deal" with all the trimmings. Those with ears for it will get the message no matter what the medium. So yes! you're right. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4535021 - 08/15/05 03:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To answer quickly, yes, you are enlightened. Always were and always will be.

If I could explain this I would say that there is an external superficial part of you that is supremely disconnected from unconditional love. It exists on a channel where it is alone, threatened and at an energetic war with everything else in existance. At the same time, there is an internal undercurrent that knows nothing but eternal forgiveness and acceptance and embrace and encouragement. Never are you just one or the other for the whole spectrum exists simeltaneously. You choose where your focus resides predominantly and also how much of this universe you feel. Where you choose to perceive within this wave of consciousness is your choice but just because you have chosen to be on a frequency within this range does not make the rest of the whole experience out-of-play or move out of existance. Its all still there doing its thing. Always.

I would not say that enlightenment is something that is attained but rather realised as a state that exists. We define enlightenment as the state beyond what we normally perceive. To some, enlightenment is forgiving their parents for childhood conditioning. For another, enlightenment is learning compassion for strangers and letting go of egotistical battles. I'm sure its entirely different for everyone and at the same time probably quite similar. I think we instinctively yearn to reach higher lighter frequencies and while we are in a body with definitions we attach 'enlightenment' to whatever the next progression will be for us.

With all that being said, from what I have observed of your interactions on this forum Icelander, I would say you are a ledgend and that you are truly enlightened.

I think its very possible to have an enlightened retirement. Eventually you begin to see all things in the world as essential and good and the seperation melts away. The overall feeling of 'all is good' kicks in an ever increasing fashion. The boundaries dissapear and your ability to manifest what you desire expands in an infinite style.


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: iambobby]
    #4535106 - 08/15/05 04:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yipee!  :thumbup: Enlightened retirement? Well I hope you're right because I'm getting to that age. And thank you for the kind words. I must admit I liked hearing them weather true or not. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4535120 - 08/15/05 04:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"To answer quickly, yes, you are enlightened. Always were and always will be."

Congratulations on your enlightenment...now you can relax without further need of worry. How about throwing an enlightenment party for yourself?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4535140 - 08/15/05 04:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"To answer quickly, yes, you are enlightened. Always were and always will be."

Congratulations on your enlightenment...now you can relax without further need of worry. How about throwing an enlightenment party for yourself?




Hue, I have this fantasy where I am rich and have a large beatiful spread and houses. I send planefare to all my S&P friends and we meet in person and see what happens. You and I will have to take a hike into the hills, to meet whatever is out there. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4535148 - 08/15/05 04:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"You and I will have to take a hike into the hills, to meet whatever is out there"

That doesn't mean you will kick my ass does it?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4535335 - 08/15/05 05:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, relax into the enlightenment :laugh: :slomo:


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: iambobby]
    #4535380 - 08/15/05 05:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Who would have thought it could be so easy? No more struggle filled existance, doubting ourselves, beating our egos into submission in order to reach the ultimate humility. I think we can just accept it now. Enlightenment for everyone! Not just for those who follow the elite paths where only a few reach it. Anybody can tap into it and feel it whatever it is.

The version of enlightenment I subscribe to in this time of my life is the type where you can let yourself dive into different philosophies and allow yourself to enter into anothers belief system and take on board what you like and leave what you don't. To have an open mindedness that gives you the freedom to allow others to think and believe what they like without needing to try and control them. Being truly compassionate and open and surrendering and all that jazz.

At the same time, its letting yourself be a control freak and utilizing whatever shadow power and tricks of the trade you have acquired in order to protect yourself and fight for what you believe in.

I see it as playing the oneness game and playing the war game at the same time. Living the duality and being able to ride a seamless journey between polarities. Feeling the hate. Feeling the love. A continually increasing adaptability between the extremes until maybe they begin the merge as one force, not opposed but united.


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: iambobby]
    #4535546 - 08/15/05 06:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

More nice stuff. I tend to agree, it's all about the experience. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: iambobby]
    #4536796 - 08/15/05 12:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iambobby said:
Yes, relax into the enlightenment :laugh: :slomo:



this is part of it
the explanation that followed
describes a particular game play
not part of it


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: iambobby]
    #4537053 - 08/15/05 04:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"The overall feeling of 'all is good' kicks in an ever increasing fashion. The boundaries dissapear and your ability to manifest what you desire expands in an infinite style."

Isn't this contradictory? If all is truly good, why would desires still linger?

I once heard a wise monk stating that "Free Will" is an oxymoron. We must free the will, let go of will. Then only Free remains.  :crazy:


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OfflineVarthDader
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: dorkus]
    #4562935 - 08/21/05 11:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No you are not.

simple logic, right (?) . if you were enlightened you would not ask this question...


I have a feeling, that what we are doing our entire life (ofcourse Im really just talking about myself) ... well .. what I am doing ... what I am doing is basically always trying to change, trying to evolve, trying to "be" something ...


I started out as young, trying to learn, trying to understand, trying to do well in school, to be liked , to succeed ... and somewhere along the line, I got issapointed with it .. you know, chasing money, job, car, house .. the stuff ...


so I started chasing "spiritual growth" --- "enlightenment" --- "mushrooms and drugs" ---- "god"




what if all of this is the same?



what if my chasing after enlightenment or "truth" or "god, is exactly the same as my chasing the money, the job and the cars (or the sex og the drugs or whatever `)


You know what Im saying?




when I say "I would like to be enlightened"


or

I would like to experience "truth" or "infinity" or "god"



what I am really saying is "Im am not happy with things as they are. With myself. with my life"


"i feel something is missing. I want more. I need more"


you see?



this way we live our lifes .. allways dreaming about change and discovery .. allways dreaming about becoming something else than we are .. something better, bigger, more devine



do you see the stupidity in this?



don?t you see, that this is exactly the one and only thing preventing you from being perfectly happy right now?


you own thinking that you are not perfectly happy right now




your wanting to be enlightened, will prevent you from being enlightened forever


give up the search


be happy being you, be happy living your life



stop running away

running away through drugs, through religion, through searching for "enlightenment" og "truth" or "god"



stop looking for it. You are allready there.

You are allready here


this is where it is, isn?t it marvellous ?



PS sorry my english suck Im stoned and foreigner


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OfflineVarthDader
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: VarthDader]
    #4563048 - 08/21/05 11:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

oh yes, by the way, what is the purpose of asking someone else whether or not "enlightenment" exists ?

Why don?t you just find out for yourself?


If you have read just a tiny bit of the books and "experts" on the subjects, you will have discovered, that there are some who claim it exists, and some who claim it doesnt.


What can you do with that?


pretty much nothing, right?

I mean, there are som really clever genius gurus out there, who will tell you that it exists, or that it doesnt

so what?

some people will telle you that ufo?s came down and took elvis away


what would be interesting in my oppinion, would be to discover for oneself, whether there is such a thing as "enlightenment" or not?

I would like to see elvis myself

I wonder how anyone would do such a thing?


don?t you?




I wonder what would happened if one would womehow stop wondering about this


simply stop


like : I don?t know if there is such a thing as "enlightenment" ... I have no idea what it is ... it is not simething that I know myself or have any experience with or have ever seen in my real life


maybe this would be "honesty" ?


maybe this would free up some energy which could be directed into "daily life"? .. "life today"? .... and not into some childish fantasy about "enlightenment" or "gods" or "demons"


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OfflineVarthDader
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: VarthDader]
    #4563074 - 08/21/05 11:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:


PS PS PS



I like very much the "uncoditional love"-view

I think thats much close to what I see


:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:


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OfflineVarthDader
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: VarthDader]
    #4563082 - 08/21/05 11:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

welease bwian


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: VarthDader]
    #4563086 - 08/22/05 12:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

stop looking for it. You are allready there.

You are allready here




Well which is it? First you say I ain't and then you say I is. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4563089 - 08/22/05 12:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your post was the point of this thread and why I was questioning our definition of enlightenment. I agree with you. :heart: Welcome to the shroomery. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineVarthDader
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4563091 - 08/22/05 12:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well .... I did ...


guess its up to you ?


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