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InvisibleIcelander
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Am I enlightened?
    #4521541 - 08/11/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Does Enlightenment exist? Is it possible to "awaken"? If so what is that like? I have thought about this alot. I have had my own experience of unbounded freedom and joy, oneness with the divine, a state of timeless grace. Then I came down. It didn't last. My realization and awakening showed me the reality of the world and brought a transformation in me. But the experience passed.

In the past I assumed that my experience was not enlightenment but something less. I have just been reading a book by Jack Kornfield, called: After the Ecstasy, the Laundry. He states that there is no such thing as enlightened retirement. That is not how it happens.

Jack is Buddhist, but quotes from many sources, Zen Buddhism, Jewish mystics, Hindu, Christians, Sufi, Scientists, Poets, even Castanada. This is a good read.

My conclusion here is that enlightenment is the awareness that we are all enlightened naturally, and that awareness is only a step away. At one time or another in your life you may experience that "step" . If you do, you may properly say you have been enlightened. Then you go on being yourself, with your struggles and with your everyday challenges. But now you know what you are, and that sets you on a path toward your beloved. Which in my view is Unconditional Love. :heart:

I would enjoy hearing your opinion on this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521605 - 08/11/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

i agree with ramana maharshi on the issue. i dont feel like trying to put it in my own words right now so ill just post this http://www.hinduism.co.za/freedom&.htm. i think its saying the same thing you're saying so youll probably like it but i dont like topics asking "is there enlightenment" because its a matter of samantics. if you define enlightenment to be something than of course there is enlightenment even though an enlightened person may say there is no enlightenment, there is only what is.


Edited by Deviate (08/11/05 01:03 PM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521611 - 08/11/05 01:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I would have to refer you to the Dzogchen Trekchod.


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...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #4521629 - 08/11/05 01:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What is your opinion, from your experience?  Can you sum it up in a few words or a paragraph or two? :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/11/05 01:11 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521638 - 08/11/05 01:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I couldn't open this. Still although it's subjective. I would like your personal views from your life experience, if you are willing.  :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521659 - 08/11/05 01:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If you're enlightened then no more questions exist about whether you're enlightened or not. Sort of like graduating from school. There's no more question of going back to the previous grade.

I still refer you to the Dzogchen Trekchod. I can't really do it justice.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521673 - 08/11/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Hum............. " To be Enlightened "

First I ask myself is Enlightenment a short term thing, a long term thing, a permanent thing, a special thing for only " the chosen " or is something that comes and goes depending on the level of faith, commitment to serving  " God "............. actually this is not what I ask myself but I seem to think this is what others ask in the observance of a Enlightened person. In other words the enlightened person is only as enlightened as he or she knows enlightenment for them. And the outside person does not know anything but what he or she can conclude based on their Ideas, experiences, and opinions. This is what leads to an understanding of what they feel is "Enlightenment" are at that time.

So the outside person can not say what is really going on with another person. Yes there are many clues in a persons behavior that will tell an outsider many things. Some false many true. That aside

I believe that "Enlightenment" is on many levels. Every lesson we learn as humans interacting with each other leads to another state of enlightenment. But I think you are talking about Spiritual growth and Enlightenment to the " God  " or " Being greater then ourselves. The point is that enlightenment comes in many forms and levels.

I would like to share some of my experiences with you which would fall into the this discussion. When I pray in the day to day, it is done as if I talk to a friend or I would talk to my dad. It is a way of staying in touch with my best buddy God. And in this way I am able to access the mind of God and am able to have the right answers before me. This makes me feel as though I am enlightened. That is one level to know the mind of God Thur the Holy spirit.

Then there have been times in my walk with God that I have been " With Spirit " or kinda like saying I have been overtaken by the spirit. Which is a very real and physical thing that feels like hot electricity running Thur my body. This is when my inner spirit prays to God. The bible calls it praying in tongues. Now many people think that is CRAZY.......so did I. I heard people speaking in words I never heard. To be honest I know that there are many people who just repeat sound they heard others speaking. But there was a time in private pray at home I asked God to reveal to me this " Holy spirit " I wan to say that God knows the heart. I was not asking to be " One of the crowd or for some personal reasons for shit I needed " I asked God for this because I wanted to be closer to the God who loved me. Make a long story short....The holy spirit came down on me like a wave of love and it poured into my very being. In a matter of about a half a second I was speaking in a language I have never heard. I don't just mean a few syllables I mean full blow dialect. At first I was somewhat freaked but God reassured me that there was nothing to fear. In any case I am turning this into another discussion. The point is that for me that was the stage in the "getting to know God" where I knew beyond a doubt I had reached a new level... I was enlightened to the spirit and thoughts of God. Not only that but, I had access to the power of God. The power of Love and that is the goal of life for mankind. TO fully understand and live in Love. Enlightenment for me is living in love and dieing daily to my worldly wants. Which I do battle with EVERYDAY.............. But that is where the line is drawn for me. To take every pitfall and learn, to move forward, to be closer to the great Love.. God. God knows the heart and what your intentions are. IT IS INTENT THAT MATTERS TO GOD :smile:

It is through enlightenment from the spirit of God, which is made to all who truly seek it, that higher states of thoughts and reactions to the world can be had. Enlightenment is the state at which one knows that he or she is beyond the mind we are born with.

What happens to me when I am in these higher states of mind ? Well many answers are given. Sometimes answer to questions I never even asked. There have been a few times where I was able to see the inner spirits of people. Some good and some very bad. I am certain this is the place that "things" can happen. It is in the faith of a man that brings him here. Now I have been witness to " miracles " There have been other times I knew to go here or go there. So i went and then found out that this person needs were urgent. God sometimes leads me with blinders on. But the entire point of loving God and being his friend is to trust in him. That even if I don't understand what is happening or where I am going. God will never lead me to harm.


I had better stop here. I have said entirely to much I think.

Bottom line... Enlightenment is being more than you were yesterday. How far you want to go and how fast all depends of the intent of your heart and the desires of your inner man. Enlightenment, deep spiritual enlightenment takes very real commitment and a very real desire to want to know God.

Final thought............... Once gained can you go backwards ? Yes of course and you can go forward also. Enlightenment has no ties to the past only ties to the future. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521688 - 08/11/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

-en2
suff.

Made of; resembling: earthen.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Gomp]
    #4521717 - 08/11/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

were you asking my opinion or eve69's? my opinion is that enlightenment is simply what exists minus wrong thinking. when you're enlightened there is no enlightenment, there is just existance.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4521815 - 08/11/05 01:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for your thoughts.

"Final thought............... Once gained can you go backwards ? Yes of course and you can go forward also. Enlightenment has no ties to the past only ties to the future."

__________________________________________________

This is an interesting point. I have often wondered about certain "Guru"  types who have crashed and burned after having quite a run. I would completely write them off if I had not read some of their thoughts and felt they were completely true.  Very interesting, to contemplate this when thinking about what enlightenment could be. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521830 - 08/11/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521841 - 08/11/05 01:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

and what is divine?



Everything... :heart:

Good Post! More like a vibration away...heh.

I have only read of very few who were enlightened for more than a brief flash. Is it possible to hold onto it? Possibly a natural divine grace could be held on to but I am guessing there have been very few. Probably could count the number on my one hand. Jesus comes to mind. It takes a lot of compassion to turn the other cheek. High on life!

Yes, many of my insights have led towards unconditional love. Whatever it is just plain giving. Don't know how many times pets have helped come to these realizations.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


Edited by mecreateme (08/11/05 01:57 PM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521859 - 08/11/05 01:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Ah yes the mind set of eastern thoughts............. I never understood why the idea of " Being Enlightened " meant " Just existence " or " to be with out complete thought " It sounds so silly to me. We as humans are very emotional. We are full of good and bad. We are as we are.

To find some 50 years later after you have been very very still, locked away from the world deep in a mountain range. You have finally got to the point of................... NOTHING..... WTF ? What is the point in that ? We are humans with humans as companions. We are different from the beasts. We all have known this for thousands of years. To denie Love and all that comes with freewill is cowardly to me. (Not bashing anyone OK)

I just think that eastern type thinking is very flawed. In fact I would go so far as to say.......... It sounds like a very easy way to grow old and die without ever having to deal with life love and people. I will say for the people I am pissing on......... I never really studied this far enough to know all the facts. so let me be the first to say I am shooting off at the hip based on my experiences.

I am being somewhat naive and admit to ignorance.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521860 - 08/11/05 01:59 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?




I am  :grin: Look! It's right abve my avatar.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521881 - 08/11/05 02:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
oneness with the divine




and what is divine?




I am  :grin: Look! It's right abve my avatar.




But what does divine mean?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521893 - 08/11/05 02:08 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4521903 - 08/11/05 02:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

to me divine means happiness.

Quote:

Ah yes the mind set of eastern thoughts............. I never understood why the idea of " Being Enlightened " meant " Just existence " or " to be with out complete thought " It sounds so silly to me. We as humans are very emotional. We are full of good and bad. We are as we are.

To find some 50 years later after you have been very very still, locked away from the world deep in a mountain range. You have finally got to the point of................... NOTHING..... WTF ? What is the point in that ? We are humans with humans as companions. We are different from the beasts. We all have known this for thousands of years. To denie Love and all that comes with freewill is cowardly to me. (Not bashing anyone OK)

I just think that eastern type thinking is very flawed. In fact I would go so far as to say.......... It sounds like a very easy way to grow old and die without ever having to deal with life love and people. I will say for the people I am pissing on......... I never really studied this far enough to know all the facts. so let me be the first to say I am shooting off at the hip based on my experiences.

I am being somewhat naive and admit to ignorance.




are you speaking from experience or just speculating? studying eastern principles seems to have helped me reach a fuller experience of life in which i am more able to interact with people and give them my love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #4521910 - 08/11/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

As I am very pragmatic, I just skip enlightenment and do the laundry. It saves a step  :tongue2:.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Deviate]
    #4521915 - 08/11/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"I am being somewhat naive and admit to being ignorant"

Translates to........... I am speculating from very limited experience about this.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Am I enlightened? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4521920 - 08/11/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fucknuckle said:
To be in a state of perputal Love. To be a creature of Love. To know nothing but the values of Love. To be divine is to be of Love, for love and in love with all thing at all times.

And at the same time, dealing with your freewill. To always make the choice to Love and be Love. :heart:




so only humans can be divine?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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