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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1625922 -

lol, maybe true, i don't know that much of eastern religions. True the knowledge came from a textbook, so your probibliy right!


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1626251 -

Enlightenment can be better termed as "Awakening," which cannot be thought of as something to posess, something to grasp, something to attain, a place to arrive. It is to fully realize the true nature of our own being, the underlying essence of all Things. It is this suchness we cannot see. Our ignorance is the fundamental cause of all suffering.

When a pond is stirred by a storm, the water becomes cloudy with sediment. We cannot see to the bottom. The reflections on the surface of the pond are jumbled and indiscernable. When the storm passes, the pond will settle and shimmer with brightness, mirroring it's surroundings with perfect clarity. The water becomes clear, and we can see deep inside.

Our minds are like this pond, disturbed by our frantic desire to be freed from the suffering we are all born into. Our minds are at all times craving for satisfaction from external objects: beautiful sights, music, luxurious commodities, profits, fame and power. Why should it be so? Because we seek contentment.

If we live without food and clothing, we will need to obtain money in order to solve the problem of livelihood. But once we have enough food and clothing, we will still be dissatisfied. This time we will seek for food and clothing of better quality. We will want stylish sedans to drive, and a magnificent mansion to live in. When we have all these, we will still remain dissatisfied. The human mind is just like that, forever seeking, never contented. It runs like a galloping horse; no sooner than its rear feet touch the ground, its fore feet are already in the air. Never will its four feet land at the same time. *

If we do not find contentment, we will never have peace and happiness. Thus we say, "We have to be content in order to have peace and happiness." Yet the fact remains that the human mind can never be content. So how can there be peace and happiness? Religions in general try to give people comfort and make them content. Giving comfort may also be considered a common denominator of most religions. Some religions preach salvation through faith and say that salvation will naturally bring contentment and peace of mind. However, they can be seen to treat adults like children. That is, they will give "toys" to the children if the latter obey their guidance and refrain from crying. In fact the problem remains unsolved, because a discontent mind cannot be satisfied by external gifts. *

It is safe to say that we've all experienced to some degree the effects of "Karma". Karma can be thought of as a relationship between the causes and effects of suffering. The more wicked we are to others, the more we impede Life than assist it, such will come to us in the form of suffering. To purge the poisonous effects of bad deeds, we refrain from exercising them, while grapsing every opportunity to perform good deeds, striving toward altruism.

Altruism is to consider others before yourself as the first and foremost intention of every word, every act, every where and every time. This helps us purify the mind, and awakens us to the Reality of Things.

It is an ideal that requires discipline, and a lifetime of practice. Certainly not something that can be obtained by ingesting this or that. Though, it can be said that certain entheogens may act as a powerfully impelling factor.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (06/11/03 11:49 AM)

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Ped]
    #1626320 -

Great post Ped. True that the human mind is never satisfied with anything, it desires more and more. And again good job on pointing out that Enlightenment is not a one day or even one year deal; it requires extensive work and very high amounts of will power. Enlightenment also has become a cause of suffering; many people try so hard to obtain it, yet most never reach it, they fall deeply into regret and think of how much time they have wasted. Yet they do not see that they have indeed progressed from their original state. That is why no one should in practice desire enlightenment, it is just something that will eventually come to all of us.


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Aum Namah Sivaya

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1626330 -

Great post, enlightenment can be reached, i have reached it, you wont find it in your mind though. You should learn to see with your chin, and feel with your ears, that is the practice of zazen.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626339 -

>i have reached it
so what's it like ? or what isn't it like ? or what is it ?
or... nevermind :grin:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: lucid]
    #1626340 -

>You should learn to see with your chin, and feel with your ears
is it safe to do this while crossing the road ?


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: lucid]
    #1626342 -

it is if you say it is, just dont be late for your appointment with death.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626350 -

constant rushes of bliss, aimless wandering at night while stoned, dont care about anything, love everything.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626375 -

>just dont be late for your appointment with death
I always keep my appointments... it's death that evades me...
and life that's firmly planted it's claws in me...the scars go deep...


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1626662 -

>> Enlightenment also has become a cause of suffering; many people try so hard to obtain it, yet most never reach it, they fall deeply into regret and think of how much time they have wasted. Yet they do not see that they have indeed progressed from their original state. That is why no one should in practice desire enlightenment, it is just something that will eventually come to all of us.

How misguided, to be motivated toward awakening for no cause greater than desire!  It is our desires that lull us to sleep all along, after all.  There is much to be said for the ethical and personally virtuous progress that can be made along that path, but even so, it is not unlike attempting to cross an ocean whilst anchored to shore by a thousand-mile lead.


>> Great post, enlightenment can be reached, i have reached it, you wont find it in your mind though. You should learn to see with your chin, and feel with your ears, that is the practice of zazen

To claim you have reached Satori is immediately to admit otherwise. :smile:  Or did you mean something else? 


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Ped]
    #1626907 -

There is still many things that seem to get in the way of reaching enlightenment, such as the weird creature in DMT hyperspace or the explanation of diffrent dimentions ect. How can we awake from the dream if they are thing we dont understand. Is it just the physical world that dosnt realy exist or is it the whole experience of being here that is the illusion including the machine elves.
Then there is the part of trying to be happy and desire nothing in a world that is constantly trying to screw with you head and make you want everything.

Anyway say enlightenment was achived in life would this then mean that you would view the world in its true from, the best example of this could be seen in the matrix where neo sees the world in code. But this could bring up other problem such as this would set the basics for magick the reason being is that if you can see the code then you can change it.

The problem with this tho would contradict Enlightenment because powers like these would probably corrupt you and feed the ego. Unless this would mean there would be no ego games and any powers gained from Enlightenment would simply not be used.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1627123 -

Here is a short passage on what Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami said after his awakening and returning to the city. (btw Satguru stands for a self realized swami)

"Returning back to the city, nothing looked the same anymore. I was in another dimension. Everything was different. I had lost something: the desire for the realization of the Self. I felt complete. I felt alone.
One night, just before sleep, I saw before me a vision of a tremendous peacock tail, open and framing the screen before my eyes. In Hindu mysticism, Lord Murugan rides through the akasha on a peacock. This is the way he traveled in the inner area of the mind."

This is another passage in which he talks about his awakening.
"There was just one thing lacking, however- and i had to do it myself- the ultimate goal, the realization of the Self. It was with joy and burning desire that I approached the caves of Jalani. I had absolutely nothing with me. I had given all of my money to the villagers along the way. I didn't take any food. I had given all of my clothing away, everything. I just went there to be alone.
I said to myself. "I am going to fast until i find this realization that I so wanted and have wanted for such a long time." I started to fast. The Mustan wasn't there. He had gone away on a pilgrimage. No one was there. There were no pilgrims. I was left alone. I went up and into the cave. I started to meditate. I went in and in and in and in and then in and in again, and finally I went in and in until awareness became totally aware of itself, and into the control of the breath until the breath breathed no more, and then into the Self, Parasiva.
I came out again into the mind. Villagers had seen me on the cliffs from the villages three hundred feet below. They thought I was some sort of holy man and brought food and all sorts of nice things. We had a big feast. I was hungry. They had come all the way up from the valley. They were so kind."

"The enlightened being sees beyond duality and knows the oneness of all. He is the illumined one, filled with life, filled with love."

Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami is the founder of Hinduism Today and also the founder of Kaui's Hindu Monastery and Iraivan Temple. He passed away recently in 2001. Here is website if you would like to learn more http://www.gurudeva.org/


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Aum Namah Sivaya

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1627859 -

There are no boundaries


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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: Shroomism]
    #1629286 -

>Enlightenment Cant be reached
Nope, and yet it's always for sale :grin:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #1629346 -

Physical death is not Enlightenment any more than it is entrance into Heaven - giving two ways of talking about the same thing. As Cougheeman put it, it's about wholeness, not dissolution. Dissolution of the mind-body is death, not integration or wholeness which constitutes a truly spiritual dimension to one's life. This is what the psychedelic pioneers of the 1960's were trying to teach society, with the Tibetan Book of the Dead (or translated into 'The Psychedelic Experience' by Leary et al.) in hand. Ego death does occur at death, but it can occur from non-fatal mystical experience - even psychedelically "occasioned' mystical experience. Ego-death alone doesn't transform one's personality into the "Inner Man," (of St. Paul) or "the Immortal Fetus" (of the Taoists). This is what the classic tripping text 'BE HERE NOW' is about.

BHN gleaned mystical perspectiveves from mostly Hindu and Buddhist sources, but the Gospel According to Thomas - a genuine 'Gnostic Gospel,' also describes a 'Realized Eschatology,' which means that unlike the New Testament which places Heaven primarily in the indeterminate future (even though "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand..."), for Thomas, and Gnostics in general, it is, yup, Here and Now. The Awareness of this Truth is what Enlightenment is. It is nothing to be 'attained,' or 'possessed' once and for all, but the glimpses may be more frequent with age, and the lapses into meaningless existence grow shorter in duration until those numerous glimpses form One complete vision (like beads of Mercury that connect into one large drop). So cheer up! Stay on a Path with Heart, and your character will also attain a radiant nature.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: What's the meaning of life? [Re: lucid]
    #1631740 -

Quote:
for me, enlightenment would be a permenant change of perception. A complete
tranformation of the self. There would be no "going back" that would make no sense.


There is no going back unless you manage to forget the whole experience, but I can't imagine how anyone could do that. However, there is a kind of "going back" in the sense of coming down and re-entering a personal ego-perspective again, in the same human body as the one that consumed the mushrooms in the first place. If you know what I'm talking about you will also recognize that the "going back" was a choice that was made at a particular point during the trip.

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #8424219 -

no you've got it. perfect enlightenment is complete ego loss, which can only be obtained with the dissolution of your physical self.

I dont think I could tell my body to turn off with my mind, but I can turn it off other ways. and when you are comfortable doing that you know for sure that you are enlightened.

some people know!

death and taxus

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: panjandrum]
    #8424258 -

don't think he's listening :lol: this thread is 5 years old

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8432539 -

Hello, your thoughts are interesting. I have a couple of questions. Is it not possible that to gain control of your ego, you must experience the dissolution of the ego first. Timothy Leary, and Richard Alpert mixed hallucinogens and eastern philosophy, and used it to become rich and famous. What did they actually accomplish. Were any of their words ever proven to be true. How could two people with such large egos attain any beneficial knowledge. I have read many of the so called "banned books of the bible", including the gnostic scriptures. Why do you think people are hesitant to include these in their reading material.

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Re: Enlightenment Cant be reached [Re: EvilGir]
    #8439569 -

EvilGir said:
Does anyone feel here no matter how many drugs you take or how many years you spend thinking and trying to work stuff out that enlightenment cant be reached while your alive. I think that during life stuff may be worked out but its only realy when your dead you can permantly change things and escape the physical existence or maybe we all have to wait for somesort of technological advancement/evolution to free us all. 


It cant be reached because it is already so! How far are you from your self!? Technology will not ever help you to be free from the idea you have of yourself.

If you think it is a thing that can be reached you already have some mental construct of what it "is" as if its some distance from what you already are. It is you, without the conditioning & attachments of you, that simple awareness.

All that enlightenment is, is realising that there is no-one to become enlightened, realisation that the "me" ego identity is a dream then all beliefs & thoughts are left to play they're play as theyre are seen as unreal, all that you remain as is as the neutral observer of all that arises. This is unchanging reality is pure joy.
Dont wait to discover it its already here.

:peace:


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"Don't keep searching for truth, simply let go of your beliefs" Buddha

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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