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Invisibletekramrepus
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Registered: 02/20/02
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To all those who don't understand enlightenment.
    #2154865 - 12/03/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Enlightenment is the state in which you see Truth, or Reality.

Now, Truth will always be relevant...so let's not get confused here and think that an enlightened person is seeing the "Abolsolute Truth". While an Abolsute Truth does exist, it is not within human capacities, nor SHOULD be.


An enlightened being is one who see's the reality we exist in, with piercing awareness, and no interrferences to their senses (no drugs, no desires, no illusions, no self-image, no seperateness, etc)


Enlightenment can last seconds, or it can last lifetimes. There is no time limit on enlightenment. Also, enlightenment does not come with happiness, rather a deeper understanding the isn't effected much, if at all, by worldy desires and pleasures.


Consider this. From the time we incarnate back into this body, we lose our memory. The memory of all our past lives, and that which is beyond life itself. Imagine fully regaining this memory. That is what happened to buddha upon enlightenment.


Buddha never GAINED enlightenment. No one has. Enlightenment has been with us all along, we just can't see it. Everyone is born enlightened.




Have you ever been completely freed of thoughts, COMPLETELY free of desire? If you have, you know that you feel wonderful inside....empty, but full. You feel a wonderful feeling, but contrary to popular belief, it ISNT an ignorant blissful state.

You get to the point where you no longer desire food or water, nor life itself. You live because you Are. You live to help and benefit others, for you have already completed the work in this lifetime.


I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment. Seeing things as they truthfully are. Many people I know have had similiar experiences.

Enlightenment is NOT something hard to achieve or reach. It takes discippline, compassion, LOVE, and awareness.

Those 4 tools will bring oneself to enlightenment, through technique.


If you are curious about techniques to achieve enligthenment, I suggest you read up on:

Tantra - TRUE tantra, not the sexual kind
Yoga - TRUE yoga, not the yoga focused on stretching
Meditation - TRUE meditation, not the meditation focused on spirituality or clearing a headache



Or you can simply do what you know is right and find one of the other 10,000 ways to reach enlightenment.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2154882 - 12/03/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

You should write a book. You could call it "10,000 ways to enlightenment, for dummies".


There are infinite perspectives and patterns. Why limit "enlightenment" to anything?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154898 - 12/03/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't."


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2154905 - 12/03/03 01:46 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Interesting post, man. :thumbup:
Peace. 


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2154908 - 12/03/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't." 





Exactly!

I still haven't figured out what the word is supposed to mean.

Maybe that means I am enlightened? :tongue: 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154927 - 12/03/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I don't agree, on drugs one could be more enlightened than sober, because I don't see all drugs as an impediment to my senses.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2154942 - 12/03/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
I don't agree, on drugs one could be more enlightened than sober.





It definitely seems that people who do certain drugs perceive themselves as being more enlightened.

Maybe we are?

Maybe realising that the possibilities are infinite is enlightenment?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2154958 - 12/03/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Enlightenment is quite the word. It means different things to different people.

I think he did a well enough job of describing what he meant when he used it. What he said, to me, made some sense.

And I say "Whoever claims to be a fireman, isn't."
:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155018 - 12/03/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Enlightenment is quite the word. It means different things to different people.

I think he did a well enough job of describing what he meant when he used it. What he said, to me, made some sense.

And I say "Whoever claims to be a fireman, isn't."
:grin:
Peace. 





Who ever claims to be a fireworks god isn't! :razz: 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2155040 - 12/03/03 02:16 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

> I still haven't figured out what the word is supposed to mean.
> Maybe that means I am enlightened?

Nah, just means your ignorant... at least that's the excuse I use... :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: sirreal]
    #2155063 - 12/03/03 02:20 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
Who ever claims to be a fireworks god isn't! :razz: 




This is what I think. Basically, being Enlightened could be described as a state of mind, right? We will go with the Enlightenment that he was describing. Being Enlightened is a state of being.

Well, I have never told someone that tells me they are happy "If you claim to be happy, you aren't." :grin:

Myself, I find Enlightened as just consciously being. Being highly aware. Life. I don't know. But if someone feels that they are Enlightened and they claim to be, I don't decide that they aren't. I don't know because I don't know what is in their mind.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155124 - 12/03/03 02:31 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I will agree that just the fact that we are aware of our own particular and peculiar reality that that is some kind of basic enlightenment.

But come on, everyone has that. No one is special.

We can come up with infinite ways to express what we experience. We can come up with infinite ways to experience what is being expressed all around us.

So , yeah, we are all enlightened in that sense. if someone claims to be enlightened , and then claims someone else does not understand it, then they are being exclusive and ignorant in my opinion.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155130 - 12/03/03 02:32 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

> Well, I have never told someone that tells me they are happy "If you claim to be happy, you aren't."

Yes, but happiness falls into duality... enlightenment does not. Therefore, if somebody is able to differentiate between being enlightened and not being enlightened, they are existing in a dualistic consciousness, hence they are not enlightened. That doesn't mean they have not been in an enlightened state in the past, just that at the moment they claim to be enlightened, they are not.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2155141 - 12/03/03 02:34 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Yes, but happiness falls into duality... enlightenment does not.  Therefore, if somebody is able to differentiate between being enlightened and not being enlightened, they are existing in a dualistic consciousness, hence they are not enlightened.  That doesn't mean they have not been in an enlightened state in the past, just that at the moment they claim to be enlightened, they are not. 




Okay, I can agree with that. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2155189 - 12/03/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I disagree. Duality is not a false mode of intellect, but it is not complete.

There is another object....one that is born from from each opposite of all dualities. The third figure, whatever you decide to call it.

Man and Women creates Child. Universe (father God) and Earth (Mother Goddess) produce life.




Duality to some extent is a reality, because if there was no bad, no good could exist. if there was no darkness, Light could not shine.



Some good reading for you guys:

Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu


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Offlinepattern
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155261 - 12/03/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

An enlightened being is one who see's the reality we exist in, with piercing awareness, and no interrferences to their senses (no drugs, no desires, no illusions, no self-image, no seperateness, etc)




If an enlightened being is one who sees reality, but doesn't see drugs, then he is missing out on part of reality, so he isn't enlightened.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155370 - 12/03/03 03:35 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Tantra - TRUE tantra, not the sexual kind

Sexual Tantra is the "true" kind.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2155412 - 12/03/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Buddha never GAINED enlightenment. No one has. Enlightenment has been with us all along, we just can't see it. Everyone is born enlightened.

Webster
gain: To obtain through effort or merit; achieve


Ok, so enligtenment cannot be achieved. Am with you so far.

Enlightenment is NOT something hard to achieve

Wait! You just said that it could not be achieved.

Webster
achieve: To attain with effort or despite difficulty


Swami no comprende. How do we achieve something that we already have, but that we cannot achieve? It takes effort and is difficult, but is not hard. *scratches head*

You get to the point where you no longer desire food or water, nor life itself.
I know people like that down at the sanitorium; more disconnected than enlightened.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Swami]
    #2155452 - 12/03/03 03:57 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Hmmm yeah... even after reading this thread, I still don't understand enlightenment. lol

If you subscribe to this magazine, maybe you'll find out!
http://www.wie.org/


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: To all those who don't understand enlightenment. [Re: Seuss]
    #2156633 - 12/03/03 10:32 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I've had many experiences like that, which are Enlightenment.

A very wise monk once told me, "Anybody that claims to be Enlightened, isn't." 




Ok, now pay attention closely.  Here is where i draw the line.

Now, if one were to be in an enlightened state, there would be no desire to proclaim to others that they are indeed enlightened.  Correct?
However, he claimed to HAVE BEEN in enlightened states before.  In other words, he is not enlightened,rather, he has had glimpses and brief experiences of enlightenment.

When not CURRENTLY in a state of enlightenment, a person doesnt have that "no desire, no ego, etc" edge.  Which means, they have the presence of mind to tell others that they have "experienced" what it is to be enlightened.

You see what i am getting at?
Oh man, i am challenging an all mighty long time S&P goer!
And please, my opinion on this matter is not written in stone.  I ENCOURAGE you to try and change my mind  :grin:

peace, love, unity and justice for all
pz... 


--------------------


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