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OfflineDogomush
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Are hippies enlightened?
    #1691650 - 07/07/03 01:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Who is more a slave to the system that is crushing mankind's soul and exstinguishing life on earth?

The guy who works a satisfying 40-hour a week job supporting the system but focusing on things in life other than his stupid job and the system .

or

The guy who has dreadlocks and lives as a wandering hippy who doesn't directly support the system but depends on its handouts (spare change, welfare maybe) and spends a lot of time thinking and talking about the evil system and everytime he looks at someone working thinks "that dude's soul is being crushed!"


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1691700 - 07/07/03 01:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

As far as being a slave, it's the guy who works 40 hours a week supporting the system that's more a slave. He is pretty much helpless to break free because his life depends on his paycheck, whilst the hippy is pretty much free because his life depends on luck, (or God, whichever you prefer)... The hippy just takes things as they come, focused only on the present, while the working man is constantly worrying about the future; bills to pay, moving up the social chain, how much the hookers are going to cost, cocaine expenses, etc etc...
The ideal hippy doesn't worry about these things. He doesn't know the meaning of the word. :wink: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1691745 - 07/07/03 02:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They're both slaves until they actually oppose the system.

But the hippie in question has a start because he's not participating in the system. However, the system still survives without him therefore he still lives in this world, i.e. slavery.


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Edited by ArmFromTheAbyss1 (07/07/03 02:05 AM)


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Adamist]
    #1691776 - 07/07/03 02:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

they seem to operate co dependantly. one class created by the other. had this working class never developed out of the industrial revolution... you think there would be knowledge filled "free guys" walking on the street? naturally not, they would be starving and most likely under educated. But now with an advance in certain social systems, there can be hippies. tthey can still get fed by the programs that the working slave pay's for through taxes. So while the people who try and making progress in one area, have to have taxes taken out. Now you can get into all the class distinctions you want, and your wars or whatever. My point is, now there are so many different people there are virtually no bounds on who you can or can't "be". before it relied strictly on certain fundamental principles, class and wealth.. which were then mostly like peas and carrots. But some say you can buy class with wealth... but whatever.

Because i operate on or within the system doesnt necessarily mean that i dont make my efforts to a better world. Its all about how well you can use what you know. survival eh? well see where that goes.


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What?


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OfflineLCid
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1691832 - 07/07/03 02:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

depends which family of hippies hehe



in the end were all enlightened


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OfflineLostMetropolis
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: LCid]
    #1692454 - 07/07/03 09:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"But some say you can buy class with wealth... but whatever. "

Hmm, I guess those "some" haven't seen the Anna Nicole Smith show yet.


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"Not All Who Wander Are Lost" - Tolkien


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1692513 - 07/07/03 10:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i'm convinced that the term "hippie" comes from the word "hypocrite".


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: LostMetropolis]
    #1692541 - 07/07/03 10:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well... One way of looking at it is they are both slaves to their minds.

The hippy is stuck where he is... He probably can never change his lifestyle because if he did than he would feel like he is "crushing his soul"...    Then again he probably does feel alot less shackled than any employee with bills.

The 40-hour worker is very much stuck where he is.  His standard of living is etched in stone and he will never be able to escape it.  Adamist described it well enough :smile:

Are hippies enlightened?

I think they have just found a very comfortable place.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: LCid]
    #1692660 - 07/07/03 11:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the test for hippies woukld be if they keep on living wandering around since many are forced to settle down when they have kids.
but in western society it is impossible to be free.this qoute says it best. "god is dead"


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: LostMetropolis]
    #1692687 - 07/07/03 12:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ah crap. im sorry that was a typo cant*. the saying goes.... you cant by class with wealth. it has to be earned...


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What?


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1692759 - 07/07/03 12:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yes but the hippy spends all his time thinking about how the system is fucked. System this, system that. G8 is destroying the world, WTO is evil, we must stop the madness. The fucking system is logging down the forest.

To be a hippy who is against the system you have to constantly remind yourself why you dropped out of the system. Or at least, the hippy in this case does. So the hippy can't help but live relative to the system. The worker doesn't spend all his time thinking about his job, he just works and then he goes and plays, whereas the hippy's mind is occupied with nothing but the system and how much he hates it.

This makes him a slave as well.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1692836 - 07/07/03 01:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There's some really broad generlizations going on in this thread.


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Cherk]
    #1692846 - 07/07/03 01:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>>There's some really broad generlizations going on in this thread.

That's why I'm staying out of this one.  :wink:

Love & Light,

Boppity


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Offlinecrazycanadian
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1692848 - 07/07/03 01:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

enlightened

adj 1: highly educated; having extensive information or understanding; "an enlightened public"; "knowing instructors"; "a knowledgeable critic"; "a knowledgeable audience" [syn: knowing, knowledgeable, learned, lettered, well-educated, well-read] 2: having knowledge and spiritual insight; [ant: unenlightened] 3: freed from illusion [syn: disillusioned] 4: having or based on relevant experience; "an educated guess"; "an enlightened electorate" [syn: educated] n : people who been introduced to the mysteries of some field or activity; "it is very familiar to the initiate" [syn: initiate] [ant: uninitiate]

I think that both can be enlightened. Enlightenment does not have anything to do with slavery or being part of the system. Read the definition above. The Hippie could be the same as the person who works for 40 hours a week but they decided that they did not want to be apart of the system. But the system does not have anything to do with being enlightened. Both or neither could be enlightened. And either one could be more than the other.

But i see what your trying to get at and my responce to that would be the hippie.


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OfflineViBrAnT
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1693165 - 07/07/03 03:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the master waving his hand " this illusion " stunning his latest student into enlightenment.

after his enlightenment the student composed this verse:

liken this life illusory
for your sand castle will one day join the wind


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1693358 - 07/07/03 04:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the hippie is a slave to his own warped mind, because the so-called "system" that he has dreamed up does not exist in the way he thinks it exists.

-the stereotypical hippie negates reality in order to justify his pointless actions. He thinks "man, fuck the economy" not even knowing what the "economy" truely is. He believes that all life can be sustained by his form of hippie love, when in actuality, if it wasnt for the "economy" he would be fucked because he is such a lazy idiot. If the hippy was forced to actually work for his food, (hunting, farming) he would probably end up doing what is doing now, living on the fringes of society and stealing someone elses hard-earned food when he gets the chance.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Boppity604]
    #1693393 - 07/07/03 04:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I believe all stereotypes are enlightened. They live on a higher plane consisting of pure ideas, untainted by the imperfections of physical existance. :kiss:
 


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OfflineRANKSRAGGY68
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1693514 - 07/07/03 05:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You could figure out a way to have a passive income that pays all your bills and leaves you lots of time to play. Gumball machines dude. Where do you think all those quarters go? Does someone have to stand there and take the quarters? No. They end up somewhere, usually in a businessmans pockets. Meanwhile he uses the money to build an off the grid dwelling consisting of a series of 10X10 seperate little houses, Solar energy, and well water somewhere in Durango, Colorado. Not only is he a member of the system, but he also has a foot in being out of the system and can persue his own interests. Trust fund kids do this a lot as well. Mmmmmm, trust fund. So, stereotyping the 40hour man and the, call a spade a spade, BUM is not the way to go here. There are ways to have both feet in either "system." Any other ideas besides gumball machines?

-RR68


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"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1693740 - 07/07/03 06:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Neither are automatically "enlightened".

In my opinion, "hippies" lead a life more likely to lead to "enlightenment".




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Mp3 of the month: The Ides - Psychedelic Ride



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OfflineBetMomIsProud
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1693778 - 07/07/03 06:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Never forget that there are several types of hippies. I'm a forestry major who is forced into classes with Applied Ecologists (read: hippies) that HATE the fact that I'm learning how to "destroy the forest" as one of them put it. I've had hippies tell me that the world would be better off without people like me who see no harm in cutting down a tree. Now my question is this: How can someone who holds that much hate in their heart and mind truly be free of anything? The system's slavery is nothing compared to the shackels that some "hippies" put on themselves. True enlightenment cannot, in my mind, be achieved through a belief system founded on hatred.


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Nothing is idiot proof. Just need a real talented idiot.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1693950 - 07/07/03 07:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No group of people can people can be enlightened. Only individuals can. There are individual hippies and individual workers who are relatively enlightened(I don't believe it is possible to be totally enlightened. Anyone who labels themself as either is not enlightened(they are committing an act of "bad faith," as Sartre put it).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1694053 - 07/07/03 08:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I've had hippies tell me that the
world would be better off without people like me who see no harm in cutting down a
tree. Now my question is this: How can someone who holds that much hate in their
heart and mind truly be free of anything? The system's slavery is nothing compared to
the shackels that some "hippies" put on themselves. True enlightenment cannot, in my
mind, be achieved through a belief system founded on hatred.




Not that i'm condoning what that "hippie" said, but when you have a certain idea about how the world could and should be, it gets very frustrating to see everyone go the opposite direction. Some people think I "hate" Bush, but I do not. Do I think this planet would be better off without him? Yes, but that doesn't mean I "hate" him. I see him as an extremely corrupt version of myself.




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Mp3 of the month: The Ides - Psychedelic Ride



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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1694062 - 07/07/03 08:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No group of people can people can be enlightened. Only individuals can. There are individual hippies and individual workers who are relatively enlightened(I don't believe it is possible to be totally enlightened. Anyone who labels themself as either is not enlightened(they are committing an act of "bad faith," as Sartre put it).





True. Only a dead person could be totally enlightened IMO. Everyone living is enlightened to some degree.




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Mp3 of the month: The Ides - Psychedelic Ride



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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1694335 - 07/07/03 09:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

-the stereotypical hippie negates reality in order to justify his pointless actions. He thinks "man, fuck the economy" not even knowing what the "economy" truely is. He believes that all life can be sustained by his form of hippie love, when in actuality, if it wasnt for the "economy" he would be fucked because he is such a lazy idiot. If the hippy was forced to actually work for his food, (hunting, farming) he would probably end up doing what is doing now, living on the fringes of society and stealing someone elses hard-earned food when he gets the chance.

talk about stereotyping.

the word "hippie" is just a label not coined by "hippies" but by the masses to describe the counter-culture that held different beliefs and values than society. in order to shun them, they deemed them "hippies" and hence the negativity associated with it.

being born in the "system" ... and oblivious to it's workings is the state that many people choose to live in.

being born in the "system"... and realizing its evils is a whole different ballgame... you can't survive without sustaining yourself, and the only way to sustain yourself is in the system. people that dislike the way this world is working rebel in various ways, and its impossible to completely free yourself from it, minus not living in the woods somewhere, but then again, that wouldn't help solve the problem that these people see, now would it?


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1694352 - 07/07/03 09:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It is all stereotyping... every person is different obviously.. But this is a hypothetical discussion right?


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Grav]
    #1694806 - 07/08/03 12:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What form of enlightenment? The same that the buddha had?

Guys, am I missing something? That is like asking who is the better auto-mechanic....the person who restrains himself from alcohol, or the person who allows himself to drink alcoholic beverages?

In all honesty, Hipster vs. Social-Economical Participant , they are both outward paths....and all different kinds of people can fall into these outward paths.

What is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT is the inward path. Although someone's outer life is a reflection of their inner life - enlightenment is completely an inner journey, and the outer journey reflects it.


I would say someone who traffics harmful drugs, or works for a fast food corporation, etc etc would not reflect an enlightenment.

Some hipster who spends his life smoking pot and droppnig acid who whines about government this government that is not an enlightened being.


However, there could be hippies AND 9-5ers who are enlightened alike.







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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1694893 - 07/08/03 12:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

since this question deals in stereotypes, I shall as well. A hippie is more enlightened than a neo con because a hippie is nicer.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Malachi]
    #1694931 - 07/08/03 01:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

well if we're REALLY dealing in stereotypes I would say that a hippie is more enlightened by definition and the "guy who works" is a slave to.. whatever.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1695196 - 07/08/03 02:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"A hippie is more enlightened than a neo con because a hippie is nicer"

you should meet a few more hippies, so you can expand your hippie stereotype, ive met many a hippie who was just as "evil" as a CEO. And since when does work have anything to do with enlightenment? a slave cant be enlightened? why not? isnt mental freedom more important than physical freedom?


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1695277 - 07/08/03 03:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i agree :smile: .


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What?


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1695820 - 07/08/03 09:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Mental freedom seems like a last resort when you have limited physical freedom.

But then when you have maximum physical freedom, do you lose mental freedom somehow? I say this because the need for mental freedom seems to originate from an oppression in our physical life. It is a counter-attack perhaps...   

Which is more important?

[insert typical statement concerning balance and yin & yang]  :wink:


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Adamist]
    #1696246 - 07/08/03 01:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

good reply

There can't be ANY true freedom from the system, unless there's made avaiable so sort of food independant of the system.

Our bodys need food, the system provides food, unless you plan to eat bugs, or something you can't be totally independant of the system. Its close to impossible.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1696271 - 07/08/03 02:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

But don't forget, some people claim that they can live without food. I'm too lazy to link to the thread right now, but there was this old man who said that he lived on sunlight, remember? :sun: :cool:
 


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Grav]
    #1696379 - 07/08/03 02:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

that seems to be the case, and i agree. So then i think... whats the next step. so we are all not free. And we all dont really like how things are going. But rather than use the typical things wont change we are slaves, i think we all have to bounce off our "opression", find ways to channel our anger towards something positive... this moving the system from one means of control to another more "mastered" structure of control.

The control we have formed is necessary... to an extent. but yet it is over consumptive, and leaves out a lot of people, turns a lot of people on eachother.

i think we are as free as we choose to be more or less. we can sit and be slaves and die, or we can do something about it. We are not to say without a free will, we have certain choices.... i think we just have to get them in the right order... to persue that which we want to.

and in this case it could be enlightement, or as you said grav for the "hippies" a comfortable spot. you just have to weigh what it is that is important for you. WE all seem to try and find our place, and if we dont we still seem to try.


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What?


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1697171 - 07/08/03 07:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

metal freedom is requisite for physical freedom, (eventually) not visa versa.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #2063165 - 11/01/03 06:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Our bodys need food, the system provides food, unless you plan to eat bugs, or something you can't be totally independant of the system. Its close to impossible.




Since when do you need the "system" to grow food?


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2063354 - 11/01/03 08:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

will someone please define "The System"?


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2063493 - 11/01/03 08:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

both are and aren't a slave. the hippy stil depends on the system (money) because they still rely on those who who have the 40 hour a week job. so in essence this person a slave to the slave. sure they can think think and think, but what good will that do after a while, if the hippy tries to go out and create change, then that's different. then again the hippy can do basically what they want when they want, and that's freedom.

only when we use and let nature use us to survive will we not be slaves to the system. that's my opinion anyways


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2063639 - 11/01/03 09:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That can be true. There are more than 2 kinds of people in the world though.


--------------------
Namaste


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2063645 - 11/01/03 09:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This kind of reminds me of the brother of a co-worker of mine... she disowned her brother like 15 years ago because he "was a hippy". She utterly hates him and as a result she seems to hate all hippies and anything associated with hippydom because of her bad experience with one so-called "hippy" who apparently mooched off his parents alot, or something. I mean, how many 'true hippies' are there? Alot of them eventually got 9-5 jobs as the 70's rolled on..


--------------------


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OfflinePed
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2063649 - 11/01/03 09:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Enlightenment can be spoken of as a total dissolution of boundries between self and other, the profound and final realization of interconnectedness sought by sages and scientists alike for generations. It can also be said that it is the gap between ourselves and others, the divisive objects we impute with our minds, which keeps us asleep in illusion. From a Buddhist perspective, any iota of difference between reality and perception will inevitably give rise to suffering.

If then Enlightenment can also be spoken of as a total cessation of suffering, a realization of happiness that is free from suffering, then what first must occur is a dissolution of the boundries between the objects and beings which appear before our minds. Such chemicals as LSD and psilocybin, and to a lesser degree marijuana, accomplish exactly that, or at least some variety of the effect. It is no wonder, then, that upon boundry dissolution comes the overwhelming feelings of empathy, compassion, love, peace and profound acceptance that we associate with psychedelic drugs.

Does this mean that hippies are enlightened? Or does it mean that they are enlightened in the altered state? Personally, I'd have to say no. Certainly there is a connection there with the idea, and in the most immersive psychedelic experience there is quite the spectacular spiritual experience, but any act undertaken to shed misconceptions by adding an external element must, in a philosophical sense, be an act of misconception in itself. As Alan Watts put it when discussing self-reliant paths such as Rinzai Zen, "It is like attempting to pick ourselves up by our own bootstraps."

I don't think that this means psychedelic drugs should be dismissed as vain and impractical. That would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those with deep experiences with psychedelic drugs find themselves involved in an intimate dialog with a new mode of thinking. Establishing this kind of connection with revolutionary ideas in the direction of harmony and calm is very valuable in today's self-focused world.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2063660 - 11/01/03 09:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

to answer your question:

most of the "hippies" i've met have been phony, selfish, egotistical people trying to fit into a particular cliche harder than most people do. i've found them to generally have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to religion, science, politics, health, and just about everything except music and drugs.

all of the truly good people i've met... the wise ones, the altruistic ones, the compassionate ones, the ones who have something real going on, have not been "hippies".


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ]
    #2064026 - 11/02/03 01:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You musta been meeting a different set of "hippies" than what I have experienced.  :laugh: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2064064 - 11/02/03 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There are many different types of people. Even within subsets we do not deal with absolutes.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a hippie as:
"A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles."

By that definition, the hippie in your scenario is less of a slave.

There have been many in this thread that have stated that hippies live off the 9-5ers or the govt. Wow, I dunno what hippies you know. The hippies I know barter for goods or services to sustain their life, or they work independantly of the system. They are also some of the nicest, most intelligent and giving people Ive ever met.

I know many hippies of the 70s that created businesses that allowed them to work for themselves, pay no taxes and have no problem living quite comfortably because they dont require that much. Small is definately beautiful. They are more then happy to make due with much less.

I am a hippy by the classification that the American Hertiage dictionary gives. I also choose to live, in great part, independent of the system. Seeds are cheap, vegetarianism requires no animal processing. Luckily, engaging in a technology profession allows me to mitigate most of my taxes by using the system for my benefit and rejecting the parts of the system that I dont wish to participate in. Soon, Ill be able to live outside of the system because I didnt let the system consume me as I was a part of it, as many 40 hour a week workers do. They need to keep up with the Joneses. Of course it isnt perfect and I dont claim enlightenment, but the choices I make do indeed lighten the burden that the system is able to place on me.

Hopefully soon, Ill get to live in one of these homes... or atleast similar, completely off grid and mortgage/interest free. Oh happy day!:
http://www.taosgreensolar.com/home_sale.htm
http://www.naturalhomes-fsbo.com/homes.html
http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-17366/
http://www.ecolifetours.com/
http://www.house-ireland.com/index.html
http://users.adelphia.net/~kmoose/
http://www.ruralliving.com/hm195.html


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Ped]
    #2064141 - 11/02/03 03:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Enlightenment can be spoken of as a total dissolution of boundries between self and other, the profound and final realization of interconnectedness sought by sages and scientists alike for generations. It can also be said that it is the gap between ourselves and others, the divisive objects we impute with our minds, which keeps us asleep in illusion. From a Buddhist perspective, any iota of difference between reality and perception will inevitably give rise to suffering.

why is enlightenment associated with a positive thing?

whatever your definition of enlightment is... through "illusions" and "interconnectedness" is just a theory on the absolute truth of our existence. that doesn't say much, and there are lots of theories out there.

lets just define "enlightenment" by saying it's the ultimate truth... right? isn't that what people strive to gain from "enlightenment".... truth?

how come this truth is happy and positive?

couldn't the "truth" be something pointless with no meaning? could you handle searching for enlightenment your entire life and coming to the realization that is eternally painful and dark?



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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #2064289 - 11/02/03 05:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The one who lives in the world but is least effected by it, is the most enlightened, in my mind. In this case it would be the working stiff who enjoys his work but is not focused solely on it, and lives in the world uneffected by being a slave of the system or not, or part of the system or not... whatever. Does he recognize that there is no system? if so then he is truely enlightened, for he just is everything, and is happy to be no-thing.
Sincerely,
That which is and has no choice but to be


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2064363 - 11/02/03 07:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, here I was readind all of this and seeing all of the names from back in the day particpating... by the time I got to Malachi, I realized that maybe I should check the dates on these posts.. :frown:

But anyways, I don't see how we can label anybody like this. Every single person is coming from a different place, is thinking different thoughts and has different motivations. Sure, a group can be used to sort of collect together people with similar interests, but since when does this approximation automatically apply to everyone labeled in the group?

One person will label some people differently than others. One person has different ideas of what makes one person belong to a certain group than others. What it comes down to is a generalization.

Especially when it comes down to a "who is more enlightened than the other" discussion. Eveyone has a different definition of enlightenment. As long as we are not privleged to another person's thoughts, I don't see how we can say "this person is this person and that person is that person".

What if there is a corporate executive that is in the business because he loves conducting business? He gets fufillment and enjoyment out of making deals, taking on new projects, conducting meetings.. he is living his life as he wishes to live his life.

We are only slaves to ourselves. I willl work again once I return to the states. I won't "be a slave to the system". I am working because the only way to get money for me is to work, and there are things that I wish to get with that money. Playing by someone else's rules doesn't mean you are a slave to their rules. Hell, I guess you don't have to pay taxes, but then you shouldn't be using anything that has had a cent of tax dollars put into it. You put something in, you get something back.

Everyone is where they are today because of choices that they made. They are there because they obviously wanted to be there, consciously or unconsciously. I consider enlightenment being aware. Being aware of who you are, the game you are playing, and how you are going to conduct your playing of the game. Concern yourself with what you want, you know? :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ]
    #2064714 - 11/02/03 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>> why is enlightenment associated with a positive thing?

Speaking again from a Buddhist perspective, Enlightenment is defined as a total cessation of suffering and realization of happiness that is free from suffering. Along with this realization comes the wisdom of interconnectedness, and an understanding of the prior gap between self and other which inevitibly gives rise to misconceptions that breed our suffering. It's from here that all the Buddhas of the past have articulated their teachings.

>> lets just define "enlightenment" by saying it's the ultimate truth... right? isn't that what people strive to gain from "enlightenment".... truth?

From the Buddhist point of view, Dharma is Truth, and Enlightenment is the full realization of Dharma. Those who realize this profoundly are called Buddhas, and with exploration into Buddhist literature, we'll find that they are neither ecstatic nor apathetic.

>> how come this truth is happy and positive?

Banking on the belief that suffering arises from distortions of truth, it can be said: That which brings us happiness is wise, and that which brings us suffering, ignorant. It is important to draw the line between gratification and happiness. We will find in our life experience that many of the things which bring us happiness eventually turn into sources of suffering. Best examples include riches, fame, sexual promiscuity, excessive food and drink. There is a more saturating lasting happiness that is sought unwittingly by all beings, everywhere.

At the end of the story, both happiness and truth are imputations of mind, and either are empty of inherent existence from their own side. Truth thought as painfully ultra-mundane is, like perceptions of pain and darkness, only a phenomenon of a categorizing mind. It is believed that our true natures are naturally joyful and elated, and that the same nature is inseperable from the external world, except by distortions which arise from discriminating minds.

In the words of John Lennon: "Pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my opened mind." This lyric suggests profound acceptance of any and all experience. Through this we are free from suffering.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Ped]
    #2069195 - 11/04/03 01:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

agreed
Sincerely
That which is and has no choice but to be


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2069570 - 11/04/03 07:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hippie=
Highley
intelligent
person
pursuing
internal
enlightenment


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