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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Zen and Enlightenment
    #2119968 - 11/18/03 03:35 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water.

After enlightenment chop wood and carry water.

Guess I will just skip enlightenment as you end in the same place.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Swami]
    #2119978 - 11/18/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

I had a flash of enlightened, I saved up some money and bought a wood splitter. The time I've saved chopping wood I have been able to put to more fruitful enterprises and increase my leisure time. Thereby increasing the time I have to kick back and seek more enlightenment.

Oh, I just got an enlightened idea... PLUMBING!!!


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Evolving]
    #2119984 - 11/18/03 03:40 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

So are you saying that greater enlightenment equals a larger wood pile?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,434
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Evolving]
    #2119986 - 11/18/03 03:41 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Me, I just collected dead wood on the ground for the fire and drank from the stream

(That plumbing idea of yours.. pretty revolutionary...)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Shroomism]
    #2119995 - 11/18/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Fish pee in the streams around here.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Evolving]
    #2120003 - 11/18/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

That's alright with me, a little fish urine never killed anyone. 

(I pee in the stream too... :shocked:)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Swami]
    #2120010 - 11/18/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So are you saying that greater enlightenment equals a larger wood pile?



Not a larger wood pile, just smaller pieces produced with less effort.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Evolving]
    #2120030 - 11/18/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Before enlightenment chop wood and carry water.

After enlightenment chop wood and carry water.

Guess I will just skip enlightenment as you end in the same place.





But after Enlightenment, you realize all the beautiful and terrible dimensions of what chopping wood and carrying water really is.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2120055 - 11/18/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

here's my favorite amendment to a Zen quote:

"Only when u have nothing in mind,
and no mind in things,
are u vacant and spiritual,
empty and marvellous...
homeless and unemployed"
:grin: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: lucid]
    #2120192 - 11/18/03 04:45 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

homeless and unemployed

..And living in van down by the river!!!


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Jellric]
    #2120222 - 11/18/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
homeless and unemployed

..And living in van down by the river!!! 




My dad has actually done that, scept in various parking
lots and not by the river :frown: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Jellric]
    #2120234 - 11/18/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

This quote means a few things at least, and doesn't mean a few things also.

1). As humans the range of human activity doesn't change to another form between ignorance and enlightenment - one still walks, talks, etc...

2). The activity looks the same from the outside and cannot be judged from the outside. You want proof? Ignorance is knowing about one stream, and one cord of wood. Enlightenment means knowing about many streams and many cords of wood. One's choices increase with knowledge. But other's can't know that just looking at you.

3). In the quote is the tacit acknowledgement of enlightenment, not the denial of enlightenment. Though not many details are given.



--------------------
...or something







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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: eve69]
    #2120334 - 11/18/03 05:44 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Right on eve69.  :thumbup:


--------------------


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: chunder]
    #2120842 - 11/18/03 08:47 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

"My dad has actually done that, scept in various parking
lots and not by the river"

WOW! You know a real hippy??? Wow, I've heard they were real, but I never saw any.



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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2120885 - 11/18/03 09:13 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

I feel one foot off the ground right now!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2121479 - 11/19/03 01:49 AM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
"My dad has actually done that, scept in various parking
lots and not by the river"

WOW! You know a real hippy??? Wow, I've heard they were real, but I never saw any.






Nope he's hardly a hippy, just very broke and had to resort to
living out of his van (which he also used as livelyhood - i.e. to
transport goods)...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: lucid]
    #2122894 - 11/19/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

4). Chopping wood and carrying water are symbolic. Chopping wood is like cutting off negativity, and carrying water is like promoting positivity. Thus the path and the goal are to deter the negative and promote the positive.In this sense these two activities are symbolic of becoming a link in the evolutionary chain of masters who enlighten. One must raise themselves up the ladder of consciousness, and then step into the chorus of light-makers, all the time foregoing the negative and encouraging the positive.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Swami]
    #2122940 - 11/19/03 04:03 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

you are missing many large potions of that equation...allow me to fill in the gaps:




Before Enlightenment
- chop wood
- carry water
- go to work
- pay the bills
- buy a lot of crap you really don't need
- consider yourself 1337 for having a lot of crap other people don't have
- keep up with all current events
- voice your opinion regularly in casual situations, but never become active in trying to make things any better
- waste away your free time listening the trendiest music, buying the most up-to-date name brands, and keepin up with those damn proverbial Jones's in any other way society deems neccessary
- etc...etc...etc...



Post Enlightenment
- chop the wood
- carry the water
- surround yourself with people you love
- take what's needed, and give back what's possible
- enjoy life for what it is...and not for what society tells you it should be
- be at peace







Enlightenment is not a fix-all solution to everything - you still must find food, shelter, etc...

enlightenment mearly implies understanding what is neccessary, and what is convience
(and more importantly - which cnviences are holding you back more then thay're helping)



it's about simplifying, and rediscovering what life is really all about


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #2123527 - 11/19/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

I dont know about you but chopping wood and carrying water sounds kinda fun :laugh:


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Zen and Enlightenment [Re: psyka]
    #2123775 - 11/19/03 10:03 PM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Swami,

As usual, sarcasm blinds the message the Zen were sending. That message is> Even when one is enlightened and "knows" they still are required to perform their "earthly" tasks while existing in this realm, too. Regardless of knowledge, a persons gotta keep warm and find water/food. later.


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