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OfflinePed
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2063649 - 11/01/03 09:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Enlightenment can be spoken of as a total dissolution of boundries between self and other, the profound and final realization of interconnectedness sought by sages and scientists alike for generations. It can also be said that it is the gap between ourselves and others, the divisive objects we impute with our minds, which keeps us asleep in illusion. From a Buddhist perspective, any iota of difference between reality and perception will inevitably give rise to suffering.

If then Enlightenment can also be spoken of as a total cessation of suffering, a realization of happiness that is free from suffering, then what first must occur is a dissolution of the boundries between the objects and beings which appear before our minds. Such chemicals as LSD and psilocybin, and to a lesser degree marijuana, accomplish exactly that, or at least some variety of the effect. It is no wonder, then, that upon boundry dissolution comes the overwhelming feelings of empathy, compassion, love, peace and profound acceptance that we associate with psychedelic drugs.

Does this mean that hippies are enlightened? Or does it mean that they are enlightened in the altered state? Personally, I'd have to say no. Certainly there is a connection there with the idea, and in the most immersive psychedelic experience there is quite the spectacular spiritual experience, but any act undertaken to shed misconceptions by adding an external element must, in a philosophical sense, be an act of misconception in itself. As Alan Watts put it when discussing self-reliant paths such as Rinzai Zen, "It is like attempting to pick ourselves up by our own bootstraps."

I don't think that this means psychedelic drugs should be dismissed as vain and impractical. That would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those with deep experiences with psychedelic drugs find themselves involved in an intimate dialog with a new mode of thinking. Establishing this kind of connection with revolutionary ideas in the direction of harmony and calm is very valuable in today's self-focused world.


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2063660 - 11/01/03 09:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

to answer your question:

most of the "hippies" i've met have been phony, selfish, egotistical people trying to fit into a particular cliche harder than most people do. i've found them to generally have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to religion, science, politics, health, and just about everything except music and drugs.

all of the truly good people i've met... the wise ones, the altruistic ones, the compassionate ones, the ones who have something real going on, have not been "hippies".


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ]
    #2064026 - 11/02/03 01:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You musta been meeting a different set of "hippies" than what I have experienced.  :laugh: 


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Dogomush]
    #2064064 - 11/02/03 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There are many different types of people. Even within subsets we do not deal with absolutes.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a hippie as:
"A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles."

By that definition, the hippie in your scenario is less of a slave.

There have been many in this thread that have stated that hippies live off the 9-5ers or the govt. Wow, I dunno what hippies you know. The hippies I know barter for goods or services to sustain their life, or they work independantly of the system. They are also some of the nicest, most intelligent and giving people Ive ever met.

I know many hippies of the 70s that created businesses that allowed them to work for themselves, pay no taxes and have no problem living quite comfortably because they dont require that much. Small is definately beautiful. They are more then happy to make due with much less.

I am a hippy by the classification that the American Hertiage dictionary gives. I also choose to live, in great part, independent of the system. Seeds are cheap, vegetarianism requires no animal processing. Luckily, engaging in a technology profession allows me to mitigate most of my taxes by using the system for my benefit and rejecting the parts of the system that I dont wish to participate in. Soon, Ill be able to live outside of the system because I didnt let the system consume me as I was a part of it, as many 40 hour a week workers do. They need to keep up with the Joneses. Of course it isnt perfect and I dont claim enlightenment, but the choices I make do indeed lighten the burden that the system is able to place on me.

Hopefully soon, Ill get to live in one of these homes... or atleast similar, completely off grid and mortgage/interest free. Oh happy day!:
http://www.taosgreensolar.com/home_sale.htm
http://www.naturalhomes-fsbo.com/homes.html
http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-17366/
http://www.ecolifetours.com/
http://www.house-ireland.com/index.html
http://users.adelphia.net/~kmoose/
http://www.ruralliving.com/hm195.html


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Ped]
    #2064141 - 11/02/03 03:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Enlightenment can be spoken of as a total dissolution of boundries between self and other, the profound and final realization of interconnectedness sought by sages and scientists alike for generations. It can also be said that it is the gap between ourselves and others, the divisive objects we impute with our minds, which keeps us asleep in illusion. From a Buddhist perspective, any iota of difference between reality and perception will inevitably give rise to suffering.

why is enlightenment associated with a positive thing?

whatever your definition of enlightment is... through "illusions" and "interconnectedness" is just a theory on the absolute truth of our existence. that doesn't say much, and there are lots of theories out there.

lets just define "enlightenment" by saying it's the ultimate truth... right? isn't that what people strive to gain from "enlightenment".... truth?

how come this truth is happy and positive?

couldn't the "truth" be something pointless with no meaning? could you handle searching for enlightenment your entire life and coming to the realization that is eternally painful and dark?



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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #2064289 - 11/02/03 05:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The one who lives in the world but is least effected by it, is the most enlightened, in my mind. In this case it would be the working stiff who enjoys his work but is not focused solely on it, and lives in the world uneffected by being a slave of the system or not, or part of the system or not... whatever. Does he recognize that there is no system? if so then he is truely enlightened, for he just is everything, and is happy to be no-thing.
Sincerely,
That which is and has no choice but to be


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2064363 - 11/02/03 07:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, here I was readind all of this and seeing all of the names from back in the day particpating... by the time I got to Malachi, I realized that maybe I should check the dates on these posts.. :frown:

But anyways, I don't see how we can label anybody like this. Every single person is coming from a different place, is thinking different thoughts and has different motivations. Sure, a group can be used to sort of collect together people with similar interests, but since when does this approximation automatically apply to everyone labeled in the group?

One person will label some people differently than others. One person has different ideas of what makes one person belong to a certain group than others. What it comes down to is a generalization.

Especially when it comes down to a "who is more enlightened than the other" discussion. Eveyone has a different definition of enlightenment. As long as we are not privleged to another person's thoughts, I don't see how we can say "this person is this person and that person is that person".

What if there is a corporate executive that is in the business because he loves conducting business? He gets fufillment and enjoyment out of making deals, taking on new projects, conducting meetings.. he is living his life as he wishes to live his life.

We are only slaves to ourselves. I willl work again once I return to the states. I won't "be a slave to the system". I am working because the only way to get money for me is to work, and there are things that I wish to get with that money. Playing by someone else's rules doesn't mean you are a slave to their rules. Hell, I guess you don't have to pay taxes, but then you shouldn't be using anything that has had a cent of tax dollars put into it. You put something in, you get something back.

Everyone is where they are today because of choices that they made. They are there because they obviously wanted to be there, consciously or unconsciously. I consider enlightenment being aware. Being aware of who you are, the game you are playing, and how you are going to conduct your playing of the game. Concern yourself with what you want, you know? :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ]
    #2064714 - 11/02/03 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>> why is enlightenment associated with a positive thing?

Speaking again from a Buddhist perspective, Enlightenment is defined as a total cessation of suffering and realization of happiness that is free from suffering. Along with this realization comes the wisdom of interconnectedness, and an understanding of the prior gap between self and other which inevitibly gives rise to misconceptions that breed our suffering. It's from here that all the Buddhas of the past have articulated their teachings.

>> lets just define "enlightenment" by saying it's the ultimate truth... right? isn't that what people strive to gain from "enlightenment".... truth?

From the Buddhist point of view, Dharma is Truth, and Enlightenment is the full realization of Dharma. Those who realize this profoundly are called Buddhas, and with exploration into Buddhist literature, we'll find that they are neither ecstatic nor apathetic.

>> how come this truth is happy and positive?

Banking on the belief that suffering arises from distortions of truth, it can be said: That which brings us happiness is wise, and that which brings us suffering, ignorant. It is important to draw the line between gratification and happiness. We will find in our life experience that many of the things which bring us happiness eventually turn into sources of suffering. Best examples include riches, fame, sexual promiscuity, excessive food and drink. There is a more saturating lasting happiness that is sought unwittingly by all beings, everywhere.

At the end of the story, both happiness and truth are imputations of mind, and either are empty of inherent existence from their own side. Truth thought as painfully ultra-mundane is, like perceptions of pain and darkness, only a phenomenon of a categorizing mind. It is believed that our true natures are naturally joyful and elated, and that the same nature is inseperable from the external world, except by distortions which arise from discriminating minds.

In the words of John Lennon: "Pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my opened mind." This lyric suggests profound acceptance of any and all experience. Through this we are free from suffering.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: Ped]
    #2069195 - 11/04/03 01:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

agreed
Sincerely
That which is and has no choice but to be


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Anonymous

Re: Are hippies enlightened? [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2069570 - 11/04/03 07:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hippie=
Highley
intelligent
person
pursuing
internal
enlightenment


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