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 skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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 Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment  [Re: Gomp]
#3380643 - 11/18/04 05:17 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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But Swami. You don't know that. You don't know anything.
Nobody knows anything for sure. All we can do is debate without any strong opinions.
And you seem to be so sure of everything.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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teen
Yeee Haaww
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 242
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3380662 - 11/18/04 05:19 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Mushrooms have made me become aware of all sorts of stuff I never was before.
It seems that whatever you need to achieve, you have to do some sort of material action to convince your mind to do something, like moving your legs about to get to a different room, or eating those damn mushrooms to be able to finally see certain things.
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Don't give me that load of bunk~!
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ld50negative1
lethal dosage
Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: The_Visionaire]
#3380761 - 11/18/04 05:38 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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1. No
2..3... obviously nothing to say about that.
Why is it that only AFTER a trip it is that someone comes to the conclusion that they were "spiritually enlightened" or could be in future trips due to euphoric feelings/thoughts etc.?
As far as I'm concerned your spirit is seperate from your body, but they are still linked. In theory, said individuals could come to this conclusion because the chemicals interact with points in your brain designed to intereact with your spirit. Therefore, the whole "spiritual" experience of psychedelics are completely unreal and are in fact chemically induced delusions.
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alphaone
Big Detail
Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 144
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#3380816 - 11/18/04 05:46 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psychedelics don't enhance artistic expression. Anything else?
As far as I am concerned, they do. And pretty damn spectacularly. I have witnessed it experientially. It's proven beyond any doubt. Anything else?
Swami, you have never peeked into my head, have you? So how can you give such blatant statements? Your logic goes something like this: if Swami and his friends haven't experienced something, it doesn't exist.
You pretend to be an authority on everything that is at odds with the present scientific model of reality. While a healthy dose of scepticism is always strongly *advised* to everyone (so as not to fall in trap to believe in everything he is told or has percieved), your present position and action is everything BUT healthy scpeticism.
Sadly, you're merely pumping up your ego, by trying to debunk everything that looks suspicious or is not supported by hard evidence of modern science at this moment. And you are obviously deriving great pleasure in the process, thinking how great you must appear to all those people who failed to see what you've shown them as obvious fallacy, and how impressive your persona looks in the eyes of those people. 
There is nothing new about that position. Don't be fooled that all people are stunned by your exibitionism. See, some of us can see through your little ego games.
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: alphaone]
#3381145 - 11/18/04 06:55 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Sadly, you're merely pumping up your ego,
Even more sad is yet another newbie (about 186 by my count) who is UNABLE to respond to (or ignore) a post WITHOUT playing the "Let's psychoanalyze the poster" game.
How very refreshing. *yawn*
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381166 - 11/18/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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And you seem to be so sure of everything.
I am sure of that which I am sure of; which does not include "everything".
Should I waffle and indulge in temerity and uncertainty?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#3381273 - 11/18/04 07:18 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Being sure is an illusion of knowing something.
Knowing is an illusion itself. Nothing is certain. Or at least
we can not come in contact with this certainty.
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381346 - 11/18/04 07:38 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Being sure is an illusion of knowing something.
Knowing is an illusion itself. Nothing is certain.
And how are you certain of this?
Editor's note: this form of double-speakian conversation is classic newbie phase II
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The proof is in the pudding.
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381412 - 11/18/04 07:55 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Why don't you take a peek into the PAL forum here?
I've yet to come across a more close minded, egoistic, self interested, war mongering crowd than the conservatives and the Libertarians there.
Maybe it's just my very subjective definition of an enlightened mind that's all wrong. Maybe true spirituality lies in collecting personal riches, or in killing off "them" where "them" is the current thorn in the eye of Great Leader? Or maybe the true goal is to rid the planet of all human life. All human dignity at any rate.
And I'm hardly one to talk, just look at my sig.
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Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381418 - 11/18/04 07:56 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Psychedelics do not and cannot guarantee a higher level of spirituality, but what they can offer is an unparalleled opportunity for it. They are only a tool. And tools are neutral in the sense that their value is determined by how they are used. You can use a hammer to build a house or hit someone in the head. You get out of it what put into it.
2) My "theory" is that psychedelics loosen the attachment of awareness to the physical world, allowing us the opportunity to redeploy our awareness to our home plane- the spiritual world which created and interpenetrates everything in physical existence. Some people call manifestations of this world "hallucinations".
#3Q: How do you incorporate impaired abilities to function in this world, and visual hallucinations into this theory?
This is answered by my answer to question number two.
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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skystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#3381483 - 11/18/04 08:12 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
And how are you certain of this?
Editor's note: this form of double-speakian conversation is classic newbie phase II
I never said I am certain of it.
And what does me being a "newbie" have to do with anything?
A person that has first discovered this forum is somehow more
worth listening to than a person that has found it recently?
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Jellric]
#3381509 - 11/18/04 08:17 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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but what they can offer is an unparalleled opportunity for it
What do you base this upon?
You can use a hammer to build a house or hit someone in the head. You get out of it what put into it.
What can I put into whiskey to get something out of it?
allowing us the opportunity to redeploy our awareness to our home plane
Are cartoon characters part of the spiritual world?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381550 - 11/18/04 08:24 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Pretty good first thread for a rookie. 
Don't get too stressed out by our friend, Swami. There are a lot of believers on a forum like this and that creates a niche for predators like Swami. He wants you to think he's a shark, but he's really just the Ultimate bottom feeder!  
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: skystone]
#3381554 - 11/18/04 08:25 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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I never said I am certain of it.
If you are uncertain that "Knowing is an illusion itself," why would you possibly reply with that statement to show me my "error"?
And what does me being a "newbie" have to do with anything?
1. You come in violating the rules.
2. You don't know anything about me or any other poster, are unlikely to have any credentials in psychoanalysis, yet feel free to offer your "valuable" insights into the perceived flaws of another.
A person that has first discovered this forum is somehow more
worth listening to than a person that has found it recently?
A person that debates the topic and not the poster is more worth listening to. Most people that have been around are aware of this.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
 
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#3381572 - 11/18/04 08:27 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:[/iWhat can I put into whiskey to get something out of it?
You can muddle in some marachino cheries and sugar, add a splash of 7 or soda and get an Old Fashioned.
Orrrr you can add some sweet and sour mix and a splash of 7up and get a whiskey sour. 
And out of that, you get a tacky wedding reception.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Jellric]
#3381638 - 11/18/04 08:37 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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but he's really just the Ultimate bottom feeder!
I was wrong skystone. *the crowd gasps* Even some old-timers fail to follow the rules of philosophical debate.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: AntiMeme]
#3381927 - 11/18/04 09:40 PM (19 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
AntiMeme said:
I've yet to come across a more close minded, egoistic, self interested, war mongering crowd than the conservatives and the Libertarians there.
Maybe it's just my very subjective definition of an enlightened mind that's all wrong. Maybe true spirituality lies in collecting personal riches, or in killing off "them" where "them" is the current thorn in the eye of Great Leader? Or maybe the true goal is to rid the planet of all human life. All human dignity at any rate.
Or maybe it's to try and actually understand the other side, rather than make ridiculous and outright false generalizations about those you disagree with?
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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oceansize
fuckin' right.
Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 216
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#3381953 - 11/18/04 09:48 PM (19 years, 14 days ago) |
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As far as everyone's comments on meditation, especially the non practitioners, here is a parable for you: A young monk ran to his master and proclaimed: "I have seen the Buddha in my meditations several nights now! What should I do if he returns?" The senior monk barely acknowledged the boy, telling him: "Kill him."
In my meditations, I get plenty of what you might call 'visuals'. If I concentrate on an object, it may change colors, dance etc. If I am lying I may think i have melted fully into the floor. All of these things, any authority will tell you, are distractions from your concentration, your brain resisting the strain your focus creates. Changing your focus to these delusions definately ruins your concentration and mental state. I think this closely parallels using drugs as a path to enlightenment. (Not to say I don't enjoy immersing myself into hallucenations.  )
It seems to me a good size group of posters here think that being passive agressive or sardonic is somehow better than plainly disagreeing or speaking their mind.
alphaone: Do me a favor, next time you hear a song and you think you can create 100 perfect videos, give it a shot. I'm not being sarcastic, I get the same feeling of greatly expanded creativity when I quickly roll an idea through my head after a fat trip, but when I put it to the test........ Just try it out for me.
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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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AntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: silversoul7]
#3381968 - 11/18/04 09:54 PM (19 years, 14 days ago) |
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Nah, I don't think it's that. 
Yes, it's a generalization, but I don't think it's ridiculous. It actually fits you in particular quite well. What with the first human right being the right not to pay taxes, or otherwise contribute to society.
Think what a nice car you could buy with all that tax money!
PS. I would be a Libertarian myself if it weren't for the fact that it wouldn't work because of people like yourself. It's ok to be an idealist, but sometimes you've got to be pragmatic.
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Edited by AntiMeme (11/18/04 10:01 PM)
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: drugs and spirituality/enlightenment [Re: AntiMeme]
#3382020 - 11/18/04 10:06 PM (19 years, 14 days ago) |
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Thank you for proving my point.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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