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drugs
    #3276965 -

if drugs are so consciousness expanding, and so enlightening why do you all keep going back to it, just to experience the enlightening state??? when you can acheive that and much more using your mind with out any toxins in your body...

i know where i am, so please don't ask me if i know where i am at.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3276975 -

why do you do anything?

it it not what you did? it is what you do?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3276984 -

Who said they were "toxins"?? :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: drugs [Re: trendal]
    #3276988 -

they are mostly classed as toxins

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3276993 -

isn't coffey?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: trendal]
    #3276996 -

even perfect clarity is a passing phase.

if you believe you have that perfect consciousness already, ALL the time than something is amiss.

why not act upon yourself to achieve clarity whenever you desire? and have some color fun!


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277002 -

"i know where i am, so please don't ask me if i know where i am at. "

lol what does that mean?

but yeah some drugs, primarily ehtneogens, are indeed conciousness expanding by almost any definition of the term. THey expand the borders of perception and cognition to an incredible degree, and can open up the user to thoughts and revelations beyond those encounterd in daily life.

Why does the user have to keep going back? well he doesnt. Once the lesson has been lurned, the experiences benefit can stay with you for a long time (or at least some of it) . However, some people choose to make periodic returns to this state of mind for various reasons, to renew wonder in life, seek out new and different visions, lessons and experiences, to resolve internal issues or conflicts, or just to experience the sublime pleasures these drugs often provide.

As for your claim that you can do all that and more without drugs, id call that a half truth. It is true that drugs are NOT the only way to alter conciousness, meditation, dreaming, fasting, drumming, trauma, etc can all induce different states of or perceptions of reality.

However, the only way to have the unique experience of doing magic mushrooms, is to do magic mushrooms. Like it or not, you cannot have that experience with just your mind. You can have different, equa;lly or even more awesome experiences sure, but not the same one.

Same goes for LSD, peyote, HBWR, salvia, whatever

I guess me thought is, i can do drugs, and have those experiences, and i can lucid dream and have OBE's, and i can meditate and do yoga and whatever else i want, why limit myself?

each experience is unique and has its own unique value

DRUGS ARE GOOD< AND WHEN YOU DO EM PEOPLE THINK THAT YOUR COOL!

:eek:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Todcasil]
    #3277004 -

some times, when smokeing constant for a week, like constant!..
might not just sobernes it self be by defenition a drug if it was to be unlegalized? :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3277021 -

Why does the user have to keep going back? well he doesnt. Once the lesson has been lurned, the experiences benefit can stay with you for a long time (or at least some of it) . However, some people choose to make periodic returns to this state of mind for various reasons, to renew wonder in life, seek out new and different visions, lessons and experiences, to resolve internal issues or conflicts, or just to experience the sublime pleasures these drugs often provide.

but isn't that just creating another illusion on top of others???

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277048 -

if you have a bike, you can ride it. using it only for pleasure offcourse. if you on the other hand newer got a bike, or learnd to ride it. well. o0? thats just that isent it :wink:
'??


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (10/25/04 08:42 PM)

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3277065 -

?????????

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277079 -

some ride bikes or roller coasters? some do drugs or exhibition?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277084 -

"they are mostly classed as toxins"

If you speak of entheogens, they are not widely known to be toxic. LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, and DMT have very high maximum doses. The overdose dose of LSD is known to be far beyond what any human has consumed. The same holds true for Psilocybin, and Mescaline requires 7 to 10 grams to become fatal. There are household spices that are more dangerous than this physically. There is risk of psychological damage, though, if the person in unprepared. As for spiritual enlightenment...there are many paths to the center. I feel that entheogens can give you a workable roadmap if used sparingly and under the proper set and setting. As one progresses the need for these substances wanes.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3277094 -

i say... it is all an illusion.

so who cares which illusion you pick?

your picking is only an illusion.

your deciding not to do drugs is only an illusion.



[note all assumptions made in this post are only that]


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: drugs [Re: Todcasil]
    #3277120 -

isn't that just an illusion that you say all is an illusion???

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277155 -

Not the ones I use...


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: drugs [Re: trendal]
    #3277751 -

you must use those "hard" drugs...

BUT back on topic (hopefully)


yes me saying this is an illusion, the grand illusion. the grand illusion of reality, self and other selves.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: drugs [Re: Todcasil]
    #3277795 -

but isn't it an illusion, thinking that everything is an illusion????

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3277956 -

is it even worth considering or thinking of it as an illusion? what is the point of even classifying it as that if that is all it is. you're just making 'life' and 'illusion' synonymous.


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DON'T PANIC

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Re: drugs [Re: chucksteak]
    #3277980 -

don't see how

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3278278 -

but isn't it an illusion, thinking that .... ?


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3279538 -

yah, the illusion thought just loops back on itself... like, my desire for this is an illusion, therefore I will squelch the desire. Hmm, now here I am, my squelching the desire, was that an illusion too? What about what i just said, is that an illusion? What's an illusion? Are illusions illusions? It's like a dog chasing his own tail.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

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Re: drugs [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3279549 -

"illusions is illusions" ((is)) the illusion? :P
the dog bites his tail? :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3279559 -

"What about what i just said, is that an illusion? What's an illusion? Are illusions illusions? It's like a dog chasing his own tail."

Be quiet and listen :laugh:


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Re: drugs [Re: deff]
    #3279695 -

Lakimada, why do you concern yourself with the actions of others if it has no effects on your life whatsoever?

The answer to your first question cannot be described with words. I know the answer, and so do many others on this message board.

Maybe you should eat the fruits which were created for you, and maybe then, you'll get your answer.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3279705 -

If you have no desire to try entheogens that is all well and good, BUT I don't think you will not be successful pressing your point here. I have marginal agreement with your core thesis there, but that won't cause me to change my mind. Entheogens certainly aren't necessary, but they aren't quite the evil or even endangerment to health that you may think.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/26/04 02:46 PM)

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Re: drugs [Re: vc77]
    #3279986 -

Maybe you should eat the fruits which were created for you, and maybe then, you'll get your answer.

thats funny, you assumed that i haven't tried.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3279996 -

Entheogens certainly aren't necessary, but they aren't quite the evil or even endangerment to health that you may think.

never said they were

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3280044 -

"you assumed that i haven't tried"

Never said you didn't.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: drugs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3280079 -

I never said you haven't tried them. YOU assumed.

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Re: drugs [Re: vc77]
    #3280088 -

Read wrong post


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: drugs [Re: vc77]
    #3280094 -

Welcome to the philosophical paradox about drugs.

I title it as the "drug issue".

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Re: drugs [Re: Tag_Number]
    #3280107 -

Dogma is always biting its tail.

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Re: drugs [Re: Tag_Number]
    #3281875 -

"but isn't that just creating another illusion on top of others???"

um no, its having another beautifull experience, learning another lesson , taking another voyage. None of it is 'illusory'

it happens, its good, and its memory is as true as any memory of my entire life.

If you want to know why people do these drugs, i told you. If you want to keep saying 'thats just an illusion'

than your going to have a hard time with life, cuz wake up sister, its ALL AN ILLUSION


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3281894 -

Moonshoe said:
DRUGS ARE GOOD< AND WHEN YOU DO EM PEOPLE THINK THAT YOUR COOL!

:eek:


And they make you feel like you know you not should! Good song..

But seriously, I think that people return to drugs because they are fun and enjoyable. It's all about how you look at them. If you look at them as some kind of forbidden tool, and that you need to make the best of them and then get rid of them, then I think that's a bad way to look at it.

Just enjoy them and get what you can out of them. They will never give you all the answers, or even the majority of them.


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Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3281918 -

Maybe you should eat the fruits which were created for you, and maybe then, you'll get your answer...

just that statement says that i don't do them...

"but isn't that just creating another illusion on top of others???"
um no, its having another beautifull experience, learning another lesson , taking another voyage. None of it is 'illusory'
it happens, its good, and its memory is as true as any memory of my entire life.
If you want to know why people do these drugs, i told you. If you want to keep saying 'thats just an illusion'
than your going to have a hard time with life, cuz wake up sister, its ALL AN ILLUSION

i think a person will have a harder time thinking all is an illusion because if they lived that statenebt they wouldn't be here.
i have never learned anything that i already know. every experience has been like a grain of sand on the beach no matter how much i took.
no matter how much you say a cat is an illusion its not going to become something else or that it is something else.
thinking all is an illusion is running away from responsibility of life. also you wouldn't learn any lessons, nothing would be beautiful.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283002 -

People go back to certain drugs not because they are fun, but because they are addictive as hell :lol:


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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283036 -

Hey Lakimada, aren't you satisfied with the answer Moonshoe provided you? Cuz to me it seemed you kinda disregarded what he had to say just because it doesn't fit with your own point of view.

IMO, you're not gonna get a better answer to your question which basically can be resumed as follows: "Why use drugs instead of not using drugs?"
Its all about the nature of experience. To quote Moonshoe: "the only way to have the unique experience of doing magic mushrooms, is to do magic mushrooms". Shrooms are an expeience in themselves, and even though they can have similarities on the spiritual side with what can be achieved without drugs, the shroom experience is UNIQUE (and its different every time too  :grin: ).


Have you ever wondered how a rabbit sees reality? Or a dolphin? Try to even imagine how much the dolphin's reality is different than yours (BTW, The dolphin is the animal that has the biggest brain relative to body size), and now, try to realize how much you could learn one from another if you could share  these different perceptions of reality.

Every day since you were born, your senses, that are the roots of human experience, have lead you to have a limited perception of reality. Imagine if one day during this life, you could get a different angle of observation on yourself, your life, society and the universe...
on my last trip i was tellin my friend that i was a mushroom. That's because, assuming plants have some sort of consciousness, I was plunged into the shroom's perception of reality. This might seem a bit farfetched, but all in all, i just want to say that i don't see why one would discredit the shroom experience.

Its really a sacred gift.



And anyway, do you think most of us have time to practice spirituality enough to be able to get even near the degree of enlightened state you reach when shroomin?

If we did have enough time, that would mean we wouldn't be working our ass off long enough to gain a sufficient amount of dollars to be able to sustain in this Western society. Hey, guess what, surprisingly enough, living in this rich society does have its flaws!

We're trapped, I gotta get out of this prison. Care to join me?


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Re: drugs [Re: exclusive58]
    #3283065 -

i have had experience that of shrooms without being on them and more...so if a person can acheive this or know they can acheive this why go back to them????

Every day since you were born, your senses, that are the roots of human experience, have lead you to have a limited perception of reality. Imagine if one day during this life, you could get a different angle of observation on yourself, your life, society and the universe...

limited perception of reality?? i beleive not...

And anyway, do you think most of us have time to practice spirituality enough to be able to get even near the degree of enlightened state you reach when shroomin?

i do not practice spirituality i live it everyday yes even in this western society and the state has been acheived many times without ethnogens or any type of drug for that matter...

We're trapped, I gotta get out of this prison. Care to join me?

i am already gone....

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3283139 -

Quote:
I guess me thought is, i can do drugs, and have those experiences, and i can lucid dream and have OBE's, and i can meditate and do yoga and whatever else i want, why limit myself?

each experience is unique and has its own unique value


:thumbup:


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Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283146 -

i have had experience that of shrooms without being on them and more...so if a person can acheive this or know they can acheive this why go back to them????

You are the first person ever that i know of that claims to be able to reach a "shroomy state of enlightenment" without using shrooms.

When i talk about the practice of spirituality, i'm talking about meditations and such. Can you describe what are your personal methods that are supposively sufficient enough to reach these kinda states?


limited perception of reality?? i beleive not...

oh ya, so you claim to have a perception of reality in its entirety, huh?


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Re: drugs [Re: exclusive58]
    #3283160 -

You are the first person ever that i know of that claims to be able to reach a "shroomy state of enlightenment" without using shrooms.

i can tell you its not even close to the real thing.

When i talk about the practice of spirituality, i'm talking about meditations and such. Can you describe what are your personal methods that are supposively sufficient enough to reach these kinda states?

how about not concentrating on things that can be practiced but actually lived....throughout all day everyday...

meditation is like code cracking to the soul, so you have to figure out what method suits your programs..

oh ya, so you claim to have a perception of reality in its entirety, huh?

nope but have many spontaneous moments of it...and working my way to get there...

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283206 -

Meditation takes more effort, doesn't get you as deep, and if you do go deep, it doesn't last as long.

And meditation is never fun.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.

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Re: drugs [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3283233 -

that why you condition yourself to meditation. so that you last longer get deeper and deeper.

meditation is never fun because most people are used to be consumed with multi tasking and such. most things in life are fun. it is what you make it...

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283246 -

Yeah but theres only so far you can go with meditation without having it consume your life. You don't want to get attached to meditation.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283257 -

"if drugs are so consciousness expanding, and so enlightening why do you all keep going back to it, just to experience the enlightening state??? when you can acheive that and much more using your mind with out any toxins in your body..."

lots of things and activities can be seen as drugs. are you just referring to shrooms, or are you going to include nicotine and caffiene, or even shopping :blush:

do you eat?  if you do, then you are putting toxins into your body.  our body is a filter, and unless you don't sweat, piss or or take a dump, then you are constantly processing toxins. 

are you assuming that toxins get in the way of "enlightenment" ?

and what of enlightenment? from what I gather (and of course I can be wrong) you seem to think that just because a person keeps going back to a drug, that the "enlightening" experience itself is invalid.  could you please explain this as this seem to be the crux of your question.

for example, when I take shrooms, my mind is very very quiet.  it gives me a hint of a state of mind that my brain could function at.  now I'm not saying this is my goal, but at the same time it brings me back to have some sort of analysis of how my brain and ego works.

think of it as reformatting your hardrive for a couple of hours :wink:

do you think drugs could be used as a "catalyst" in order to motivate and  remind someone about achieving a quieter and clearer state of mind?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: drugs [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3283262 -

who says it has to consume your life???

You don't want to get attached to meditation.

just like drugs you don't want to get attached to one or more gateways to have a spiritual experience..

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Re: drugs [Re: kaiowas]
    #3283263 -

""""You are the first person ever that i know of that claims to be able to reach a "shroomy state of enlightenment" without using shrooms.""""

"""i can tell you its not even close to the real thing."""

so you have reached a "shroomy state of enlightenment"? since you could compare??


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283275 -

If you give up your normal life and head of to some buddhism temple then its consumed you.

Yeah you don't want to get attached to either drugs or meditation. Nice to have a healthy mixture of both.


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Put that monkey back in the oven.

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Re: drugs [Re: kaiowas]
    #3283319 -

do you eat? if you do, then you are putting toxins into your body. our body is a filter, and unless you don't sweat, piss or or take a dump, then you are constantly processing toxins.

yes but only organic and unprocessed foods, that limits the toxins.

are you assuming that toxins get in the way of "enlightenment" ?

anything that upsets the mind, body, spirit balance can.

and what of enlightenment? from what I gather (and of course I can be wrong) you seem to think that just because a person keeps going back to a drug, that the "enlightening" experience itself is invalid. could you please explain this as this seem to be the crux of your question.

the experience is not invalid. if it was so enlightening, they would have kept the information and the lessons learned from the experience in the conscious mind, and if so they would learn that they never need drugs again to experience an enlightening state....

do you think drugs could be used as a "catalyst" in order to motivate and remind someone about achieving a quieter and clearer state of mind?

motivation only last a short time, inspiration can last a life time...

i think drugs could be used as a catalyst to become a saint than rather just experience it for a brief period...but its only a starting point, check out the buddha consciousness drugs post...forget where i saw that...

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3283466 -

are you saying tha because i eat a pizza, that is "not organic" heh, that makes it inorganic...anyway...

youre saying if i eat a pizza, that i am inhibiting my enlightenment?

that just doesnt sound kosher.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: drugs [Re: Todcasil]
    #3283473 -

but i dont want to put words in your mouth, it was all conjecture. :wink:


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: drugs [Re: Todcasil]
    #3283883 -

this was your only sentance that seemed coherent enough to respond to

"thinking all is an illusion is running away from responsibility of life. also you wouldn't learn any lessons, nothing would be beautiful. "

rite now you have severd all posibility of meaninfull communication, were just on vastly different wavelengths. Running away from the responsibility of life? hardly. Responsibility is what you make it weather you see the world as concrete or dreamlike, what you do in it and with it is ultimately up to you. Personally i feel that realizing my reality is my own illusion, my own dream, means i have to take full responsibility for everythign that happens to me. I can no longer cop out and say 'its out of my control'

not learn any lessons? what a joke. My dreams are illusions, but they teach me so much. My life is a dream, but i learn every day.

Not beautifull? now i know your in a different world. Again, my dreams are illusions are they not? but the things i have seen in them were beautfull beyond description, and even remembering them now in waking life is enough to bring back a feeling of awe.

I also now suspect you HAVE never done psychadelics. ANyone who had would know that just because the visions are illusions, sure AS FUCK doesnt mean they arent incredibly beautifull.

And lastly, even though i realize waking life is an illusion, i still enjoy the beauty of a rose as much or more than i ever have.

you iz wrong.
:tongue2:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3284599 -

No one is required to prove anything

You can either search for the the all-that-is, or have fun trying

"Yeah but theres only so far you can go with meditation without having it consume your life. You don't want to get attached to meditation."

Don't want to get attached to non-attachment? :/

This is just playing with words, I know. Rather than think of this linguistically, think of the essence of the concept. Living without desires means you never desire to not be that way. It is pure in and of itself :smile:

Nice posts lakimada, don't know why you're getting some 'harsh' treatment here :/


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Re: drugs [Re: deff]
    #3284955 -

why shes getting harsh treatment? cuz we love drugs man! DRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS!

plus i think her idea is silly (ya know the initial post one)


:eek:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3284993 -

Ya I 'concur' with that  :mushroom2: :spliff: :stash: :wtf: :cool:

But that's her view on the matter, and for all we know, she may achieve equal states of mind without the use of the magical fungus.

She has not generated any negativity towards others, yet was met with much. I dunno :/


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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3285368 -

rite now you have severd all posibility of meaninfull communication, were just on vastly different wavelengths. Running away from the responsibility of life? hardly. Responsibility is what you make it weather you see the world as concrete or dreamlike, what you do in it and with it is ultimately up to you. Personally i feel that realizing my reality is my own illusion, my own dream, means i have to take full responsibility for everythign that happens to me. I can no longer cop out and say 'its out of my control'

so you are going to take all responsiblity of things that were not of your doing????

not learn any lessons? what a joke. My dreams are illusions, but they teach me so much. My life is a dream, but i learn every day.

whats the use of learning anything or doing anything??if its all an illusion???

I also now suspect you HAVE never done psychadelics. ANyone who had would know that just because the visions are illusions, sure AS FUCK doesnt mean they arent incredibly beautifull.

suspect all you like.....and you know all my visions haven't been beautiful???

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3285409 -

why shes getting harsh treatment? cuz we love drugs man! DRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS!

plus i think her idea is silly (ya know the initial post one)

harsh treatment, i think not. silly idea??? no... silly place to post???? maybe

a female??? am i ??? noooo

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3285494 -

I didn't think you were a female at first, but someone said 'she'

:laugh:


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Re: drugs [Re: deff]
    #3285567 -

hahhahahah not a prob..

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3285576 -

hehe no sorry i wasnt meaning to be in any way harsh or negative, and the only thing i really disagree with it the statement 'you can acheive that without drugs'

i honestly dont believe theres anyone who can have an acid trip without doing acid, and thats that.

And the point of doing things when there illusions is the same as doing them when there not illusions, because you enjoy them, you grow from them, or whatever else.

And sorry for some reason i thought you were a girl, my mistake


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3285601 -

i honestly dont believe theres anyone who can have an acid trip without doing acid, and thats that

when you have control over filters of the mind/brain connection you can experience anything you like...

not a prob about the girl thing hahah i find it very funny actually

Edited by Lakimada (10/27/04 05:15 PM)

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3286143 -

"when you have control over filters of the mind/brain connection you can experience anything you like... "

on second thought, maybe your right, i myself have said many times that ANYTHING is possible, especially in the realm of mental states... but i would beg the question, have you ever had a psychadelic trip without doing drugs?

and also, that would just be so much harder. However, if you actually could learn to induce a true psychadelic experience without drugs at will, well....

that would be fucking awesome, teach me how you did it


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3286454 -

on second thought, maybe your right, i myself have said many times that ANYTHING is possible, especially in the realm of mental states... but i would beg the question, have you ever had a psychadelic trip without doing drugs?

you know how every experience is unique with psycs?? well the acheivable state is unique in itself you can create similar settings and experiences as psycs...sometimes so similiar that you sometimes wonder if you took drugs...

and also, that would just be so much harder. However, if you actually could learn to induce a true psychadelic experience without drugs at will, well....

harder maybe, more statisfying, hell yes...you can go higher than the shrooms take you. but have to be willing to let go of everything about you, your beliefs, perception, deattach yourself from everything. just be and let the energy flow.

that would be fucking awesome, teach me how you did it

i don't even now how i came across it i have always known even as a child. but didn't actually know what i was experiencing...
but can be achieved through self hypnosis. its not going to happen straight away, the more you train the easier it comes to you. think of self hypnosis as a system of alchemy for the mind. you have to tweak the script here and there until you experience what you want to acheive. another secret is dmt its naturally found in the brain's chemicals you can tell yourself to secrete more of the chemical or any chemical for that matter. and tell yourself to experience its full effects....
i have done a little experiement with people that i know that are true acid heads. i would give them a tab without any acid in it. 10 minutes they are trippin off there tits. so i guess its kind of a placebo effect.
just find out what works for you, as this is only another starting point...

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3288205 -

when you have control over filters of the mind/brain connection you can experience anything you like...


this sounds like something that can be accomplished in a minimum of two lifetimes... ehhhh i'll stick with the shrooms and meditations.

You know you're lucky to have taken this path ever since your youngest age (if what you say is true). You seem to have been blessed with some sort of pre-illuminated relation with reality. Maybe it has to do with previous lives of yours or something i dunno... but the only negativity that i'd like to get to you is that you're coming here all showy and all telling us that what we experience on shrooms can be experienced without shrooms. What you are really telling us is that YOU are able to achieve this.

Now that's great to know, really, I'm sincerely fascinated by the level of self-knowledge, self-control, self-awareness -whatever you wanta call it- that you have reached.
But its something that has naturally come to you. Maybe this is why its hard for you to realize why we come back to shrooms, cuz we're not like you. We have no idea how you are able to do this. Its too easy to come here and say "whaaaat, u guys are still using drugs?? well check it out,i don't need drugs!".

I don't mean to be mean or anything. I'm glad you started this thread you are proof that anything is possible and that you are the creator of your own reality. I just wish you'd be able to add on to that. You vaguely mentioned that self hypnosis can help, but that's it.
I'm sorry, but i feel you're just bragging.

Much love


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Re: drugs [Re: exclusive58]
    #3288222 -

this sounds like something that can be accomplished in a minimum of two lifetimes... ehhhh i'll stick with the shrooms and meditations.

it may sound like that but depends on how much one practice that and if thats what they want to achieve as a goal.

You know you're lucky to have taken this path ever since your youngest age (if what you say is true). You seem to have been blessed with some sort of pre-illuminated relation with reality. Maybe it has to do with previous lives of yours or something i dunno... but the only negativity that i'd like to get to you is that you're coming here all showy and all telling us that what we experience on shrooms can be experienced without shrooms. What you are really telling us is that YOU are able to achieve this.

i don't think i am lucky if i were to choose i would rather not have experienced any of it. but it was the cards i was dealt with so i play them best as i can. sorry if it might seemed showy but when people ask so many questions and expect more of an answer its hard not to answer to some of their expectations...

I just wish you'd be able to add on to that. You vaguely mentioned that self hypnosis can help, but that's it.

the only reason i mentioned self hypnosis is because the sub-conscious can work directly with super/christ consciousness. there is more to it but its something everybody have to figure out for themselves....

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as far as drugs go... [Re: Lakimada]
    #3288302 -

I`m no veteran, I`ll be the first to admit it... I have tripped on shrooms before but they (although very spiritually enlightening for me) haven`t been quite as earth-shattering as they seem to be for other people, probably the dosage was inadequate or my mental state at the time prohibited my going further than myself.

even though often I`ve had the deja-vu experience when tripping of being filmed, and narrowing of reality down to nothing but scenes, played out, written beforehand, and the feeling of being watched by some creatures on the other side of some kind of t.v. equivalent.

For me shrooms have the uncanny ability of taking a person to completely different thought-patterns and experiences, far extended beyond the normal, average way of existence I think we all fall into from time to time (forced or voluntary), and even though I dabble in meditation to use a very unflattering term, and have found myself able to ascend to somewehere beyond my ego and bodily self in a sober state I have never experienced something as unique and profound as some of the realisations I came to whilst tripping with good friends or alone.

Drugs are doorways, and some of those doors look pretty damn alluring, brightly coloured, or are heavily scented with the most delicious and exotic of smells, or hold promises of earlier loves or lusts...

It is easy to live one`s life completely oblivious of what lies behind the doorways, a lot of people do it, and seem to thrive by it. But once you`ve opened doorways to places where reality is turned, is shifting, everchanging in beautiful auras, colours, shapes, thoughts, dreams, wisdom, laughter, truth, lies, I think it`s pretty much impossible never to desire returning to those worlds, even though one might argue that there are different ways of attaining similar experiences.

I think many drugs enhance and diversify life, and that many in our modern day world have lives that can probably use enhancing and diversifying, if only for the sake of creating more respect for the world, or opening eyes to different perspectives of truth or morals or values or life itself...


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He's just admiring the shape of your skull.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3289349 -

a few more question lakimada, one why do you say you would rather not have experienced any of it?

and most importantly, would you care to actually describe even superficially one of these amazing drug free trips that youve had? as in what were some of the general perceptions / experiences that you had/ felt, what was the circumstance it happend in?

now when your saying you had drug like trips but better, i expect that means you had some kind of hallucinations, euphoria, etc. So give us a 'trip report'


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3289430 -

are you saying you could know how it is driving a car before you actually get in a car and drive?


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (10/28/04 01:16 PM)

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Re: drugs [Re: Gomp]
    #3290757 -

a few more question lakimada, one why do you say you would rather not have experienced any of it?

because when i was growing up, i had to meet with so many doctors, they would just refer me to one and another without getting any answers to what was actually happening to me and days in and out of hosptial, nobody knew anything ...until one day in my early teens i meet up with a long distant relative tha showed me how to ground myself in a balance between spirituality and life..and ground energy that i was recieving so i didn't get burned or burnt out. so much of a hinderence in the people's lives around me.

and most importantly, would you care to actually describe even superficially one of these amazing drug free trips that youve had? as in what were some of the general perceptions / experiences that you had/ felt, what was the circumstance it happend in?

sometimes it happened spontaneous/ i get a feeling and acutal vision of everything that is man made starting to disintegrate, i have brought this down to no energy force within the structures of man made objects. when that starts to happen i go straight outside and sit or lay down on the lawn or close to near a garden. so i have something to concentrate on that i still can see....
if i want it to pass i just keep concentrating on trees/plants or anything with or that has life force...
if i want to continue with the "trip" or state of being.. i just start to meditate on letting everything go "deattachment". besides from that there is no coming on effects. then nothing... i have no me, no physical body, no identity, become god consciousness. everything becomes orchestrated, from the cosmic dance of energy to life. and it all happens in an instant. experince of life becoming and experience life going, of the universe, people, all living things, everything...after that it become inexpressable. emotions are inexpressable sure i could say love/or unconditional love but that wouldn't do it justice....sometimes i would wake up a few days later, but it all seems like a click of the finger....everytime something like that happens it feels like i have lost apart of my identity.
the one thing that confuses me is why i keep coming back...
but i guess that shouldn't be of worry when it happens it will happen..
i know that this isn't much of a report but its the best i can do with words. and probably wasn't what you expected but oh well.

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Re: drugs [Re: Lakimada]
    #3290812 -

wow that sounds pretty awesome  :thumbup:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: drugs [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3290823 -

sometimes scary especially when everything that is solid around you just dissapears. but like all things you get used to it

Edited by Lakimada (10/28/04 06:17 PM)

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