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Offlineenotake2
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Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences
    #1330181 - 02/24/03 02:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

At Uni I did a presentation on altered states of consciousness across cultures and I came accross this exercise in an article so I thought I would share it with you. (It's suppsed to demonstrate the similarities of altered states.) You have to pick which of the following are a drug experience, meditatively induced religious experience, or from someone's psychotic episode. I'll post the answers in a few days.


1) "....they got more intense, distorted until I was frightened - they were too much too fast, I thought something had gone wrong. A blinding whirling pain behind my left temple persisted, like a ball of electric current. I began to imagine that I could feel it destroying my brain. There were three states of mind I remember passing in and out of during this time; the moments when I understood that I would recover; the times when I felt that something was going wrong inside that no one knew about - that my mind would not recover; and then beyond all that, there were moments when I was no longer afraid for myself, when I let myself imagine complete and intense emptiness. The last thing to hold on to, the sense of myself, was gone. There was nothing to fear, nothing at all."


2) "I call it the Eenie-Weenie - a squiggling little nucleus that is trying to make love to itself and can never quite get there. The whole fabulous complexity of vegetable and animal life, as of human civilisation, is just a colossal elaboration of the Eenie-Weenie. I am in love with myself, but cannot seek myself without hiding myself, as I pursue my own tail, it runs away from me. Does the amoeba split itself in two in an attempt to solve this problem?"


3) "As to the visioned creations, these were finer, thinner stuff than iridescent bubbles, all in the details of their forms more minute and miraculous than anything upon earth. Indeed they would have been such as could have conceivably been provided, or invented, from the experience of a human lifetime. There were small suns and strange twilight worlds of lakes and islands - not conceived as spinning balls, like our earth, but having definite yet changeable limits, as drops of oil which float on water. Planets, with their peculiar signs, came near, the sun was broken, and the face of the earth was changed, the landscape was never so enchanted."


4) "I feel persecuted. I have no idea what goes on. I don't want to answer. I don't seem to be able to dissociate these cards. The colour red means something that is interesting. I do not feel like answering. I already had suspicious feelings when you gave me a milk shake; I was not able to pull out the straw. I suspect some kind of trick. I have a fear of losing control. I think you all want to confuse me.


5) "I was suddenly confronted with an overwhelming conviction that I had discovered the secrets of the universe, which were being rapidly made plain with incredible lucidity. The truths discovered seemed to be known immediately and directly, with absolute certainty."


6) "An eye opens to discern various intellectual objects uncomprehended by sensation; just so... the sight is illumined by a light which uncovers hidden things and objects which the intellect fails to reach... (It) is like an immediate perception as if one touched the objects with ones hand. "


7) "As I was strolling in the yard, the earth suddenly trembled. Golden vapour gushed out of the earth enveloping my body, and then I felt myself turning into a golden body, At the same time my mind and body felt light. I could understand what the chirping birds were saying and I understood clearly the creators spirit... Tears of ecstasy rolled down my cheeks. From that time on, I have felt the entire earth is my home and the sun and stars are mine, neither position, nor fame, nor honours, nor wealth, nor the desire to become more powerful than others have any attraction for me - these have all vanished away.



--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


Edited by enotake2 (02/24/03 02:57 AM)


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1331878 - 02/24/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

At Uni I did a presentation on altered states of consciousness across cultures and I came accross this exercise in an article so I thought I would share it with you. (It's suppsed to demonstrate the similarities of altered states.) You have to pick which of the following are a drug experience, meditatively induced religious experience, or from someone's psychotic episode. I'll post the answers in a few days.

I highly doubt anyone will get all 7 correct.  It has been determined by many researchers (Watts, Leary, Mckenna, Huxley...) that the psychedelic experience is indistinguishable from the "genuine" "religious" (I prefer the term spiritual) experience.  It has also been concluded that psychedelic experience is indistinguishable from a psychotic episode, hence the term "psychomimetic" (psychosis mimicking) applied (by western science) to any sufficiently strong psychoactive substance.  Further in western or westernized societys the spiritual experience itself would be considered symptomatic of psychosis (you try telling the shrinks that we are all one, and that you are indistinguishable from god, that you have seen the light, that you are the light, that the light is all around you, etc... etc...)

5 shrooms to anyone who can guess all 7 correctly :smirk:


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1332162 - 02/24/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

They are all similar, to tell the difference is probibily impossible due to a lack of knowledge with experience. A mediative state, and a drug induced are basically the same just the chemicals are different, but the both are psychedelics.

None the less ill attempt the following!

1) drug / psychotic - i don't know about this one

2) psychotic

3) mediative experience

4) psychotic

5) drug / mediative -not sure about this one

6) meditative experience

7) drug


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1332473 - 02/24/03 07:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I am not even going to try, without reading them I can saty that all ove those states can be produced by meditation, drugs, or psychosis.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1332539 - 02/24/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Number 1 is LSD, and number 5 is shrooms. The rest I have no clue.  :crazy:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1332999 - 02/25/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

hehheh
#2 is alan watts
(so it must be a combination of all three :wink: ...)
~
lawrence leshan wrote a book _the medium, the mystic, and the physicist_ about how those 3 worldviews overlap to the point of being indistinguishable...
ymmv...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1333001 - 02/25/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It would appear that only #4 is definitively psychotic in nature. All of them could occur either on, or off psychedelics. #1 has both visionary and mystically religious elements. #2 is visionary - a sort of organic yin-yang. #3 is visionary, yet without decidedly religious elements. #5 is insight or revelatory in nature, which is religious. #6 is also an insight-based experience, also called an intellectual vision by someone like Teresa of Avila, and is religious in nature. #7 is both visionary and revelatory in nature, hence religious.

All but #4 can be deemed visionary or religious, while #4 remains a pathological state, from a classically mystical perspective. All can be associated with the psychedelic state, or as spontaneous, non-drug-induced experiences. From a medical, psychiatric point of view, all examples, 1-7, can be considered to be pathological states. All are states that contradict both sensory data and reason, and are therefore reduced to delusion and/or hallucination from a medical model perspective, IMO.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336060 - 02/25/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, the answers are:

1) Drug
2) Drug
3) Psychotic
4) Drug
5) Psychotic
6) Religious
7) Religious

Mark, I was sure number 4 was psychotic too. Maybe it was a drug induced psychosis...


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Anonymous

Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336185 - 02/25/03 10:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, I'm going to guess:

1. Drug
2. Drug
3. Psychotic
4. Drug
5. Psychotic
6. Religious
7. Religious

How did I do?


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336196 - 02/25/03 10:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'll take a guess at it, let's see how I do.

1.drug
2.religious
3.drug
4.psychotic
5.drug
6.religious
7.religious
I am probably wrong, but I got a lot of drug choices. If


Edited by Earth_Droid (02/25/03 10:41 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336397 - 02/26/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You see, there is no hard and fast rule. #5 can easily be interpreted as ego-inflation, as delusion coming across with 'pressured speech.' On the other hand, 'enthusiasm' is a religio-mystical term derived from Greek 'entheos inspired,' or God-inspired. It depends greatly upon the framework of the interpreter. My own training includes a graduate degree in theology as well as psychology, not to mention the psychedelic flight hours I've logged that motivated me to obtain those degrees. What of the person who defined the answers you have given? Additionally, I agree with Huston Smith that psychedelics only "occasion" religious experience - not cause them. True religious experience derives from the Transcendent Source that I call God.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336398 - 02/26/03 01:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You see, there is no hard and fast rule. #5 can easily be interpreted as ego-inflation, as delusion coming across with 'pressured speech.' On the other hand, 'enthusiasm' is a religio-mystical term derived from Greek 'entheos inspired,' or God-inspired. It depends greatly upon the framework of the interpreter. My own training includes a graduate degree in theology as well as psychology, not to mention the psychedelic flight hours I've logged that motivated me to obtain those degrees. What of the person who defined the answers you have given? Additionally, I agree with Huston Smith that psychedelics only "occasion" religious experience - not cause them. True religious experience derives from the Transcendent Source that I call God .


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences [Re: enotake2]
    #1336520 - 02/26/03 04:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

they all sound like intense acid trips to me... i can't distinguish any of the causes


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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