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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Enlightenment: The fast Way.
    #700258 - 06/25/02 12:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

But just what IS the shortest way to enlightenment? If this is a heretical question for you, well, great. As they say in Zen: "Enlightenment will take you twenty years, or, if you are in a hurry, thirty years." It's easy, then. The shortest way is not to hurry. So here I am, and I'm completely relaxed. I don't care about enlightenment. I could be enlightened tomorrow or in 10 000 years, I don't care. It doesn't matter. Really.

But what next? Tantra, they say, is a fast way. Sex, then. But what is an orgasm except the most powerful drug experience your body can experience without drugs?

Is it, then, drugs? Are drugs the fast way to enlightenment?

Or, for that matter, what is the actual difference between the gradual enlightenment in Yoga and the sudden enlightenment in Zen? Searching for the short way, I'll choose Zen. So I sit down and watch my breath, and it just plain sucks. I mean, the whole point, in my limited understanding, is to realize that there is no self except the universe. But - while I'm usually quite good at getting absorbed into whatever I do - when I'm watching my breath, I feel more divided than before, divided into that which watches and that which is watched, and it feels quite wrong. But then there's another Zen technique, and it is about just sitting like a buddha and doing nothing, just getting absorbed into the universe. And I tried it, and it's the hardest thing I've ever tried in my life.

Except, of course, when on drugs. While tripping, it is surprisingly easy to get sucked into just about anything. So maybe that's it. Just sitting cross-legged and bemushroomed under a Bodhi-tree, merging with the universe. Is it that?

Well, I don't know. What do you think? The subject is:

Suppose I want to be enlightened tomorrow, then what's up for me today?

Oh, and here's a quote.

"When I was once visited by a Chinese Zen man, I had my little daughter with me, and he said to her, 'You know, once upon a time, there was a man who kept a very small goose in a bottle. A gosling. And it began to grow larger and larger until he couldn't get it out of the bottle. Now, he didn't want to break the bottle, and he didn't want to hurt the goose, so what should he do?' And she said immediately, 'Just break the bottle.' He turned to me and he said 'You see, they always get it when they're under seven.' " - Alan Watts, "The Value of Psychotic Experience"


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #700312 - 06/25/02 01:04 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you should just start with a good understanding of what enlightenment really means.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offline11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Sclorch]
    #700341 - 06/25/02 01:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

hi there
well, why do you want enlightenemnt so fast? figure that out first, what is your point about it. secondly, tantra isn't about using genitalia to acheive enlightenment, its a philosophy not about acheiving the best orgasm ever, that doesn't mean sex isn't involved - my point is this, if you want enlightenment to escape your problems or to never feel "bad' again, then enlightenemnt will remain something searched for but never found - another misconception is that enlightnement must be sought out, run towards or found "elswhere"
i'd like to suggest a book for you to read, maybe it will help you or not. "The Accidental Buddhist" - should be able to find it amazon no problem. Something I am learning and want to share from "Be here now" by baba ram dass, beware of to much cleverness.

adam


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #700354 - 06/25/02 01:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What is enlightenment? Is it a conscious state that once acheived leaves no chance of expanding your mind or improving you thought processes?

How will you know when you've reached such a state? Who would be so conceited as to assume themselves enlightened?

It would seem to me that having reached such a state that I would be confronted with a perpetual state of boredom. I prefer to go the way of continous improvement.


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: ]
    #700816 - 06/25/02 03:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What is enlightenment? Is it a conscious state that once acheived leaves no chance of expanding your mind or improving you thought processes?

I think of enlightenment as having achieved a state of consciousness that does not have worry over the material world, and focuses on the spiritual. Of course there is more to learn! It is just the beginning of the spiritual world in full focus, so there is much to accomplish and figure out. It doesn't mean you know everything there is to know.. you have just learned the lessons of the physical world and moved on to a different level of focusing. A new playground.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: ]
    #701896 - 06/25/02 10:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think of enlightenment as having achieved a state of consciousness that does not have worry over the material world, and focuses on the spiritual.

Because we're all just spirits floating around in flesh shells, right?
Funk that! Material world... spiritual world... two sides of the same coin, so why would an enlightened person ignore the other half of reality?
Answer: They wouldn't.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Sclorch]
    #701999 - 06/26/02 12:10 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you should just start with a good understanding of what enlightenment really means.

If this is a suggestion, I think that my intellectual understanding of enlightenment is quite good. It's just that I'm lacking the actual experience of Awakening, and that's what it is all about.

Maybe you should just start with a good understanding of what enlightenment really means.

If this implies that you think that something about my understanding of enlightenment is wrong, then don't hold it back! I sure as hell would like to know.


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: 11polakie11]
    #702004 - 06/26/02 12:20 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

well, why do you want enlightenemnt so fast?

As I said, I don't necessarily "want" it so fast, since "wanting" something would get me attached and actually push it away from me. So the question is mere intellectual curiosity: If there is at least one way to enlightenment, then by a simple logical implication there has to be a shortest way. So what is it?

figure that out first, what is your point about it.

I guess I'd like to enjoy the sense of freedom which is achieved after the illusion of self is dropped.

secondly, tantra isn't about using genitalia to acheive enlightenment, its a philosophy not about acheiving the best orgasm ever, that doesn't mean sex isn't involved

I understand that Tantra is not about having the best orgasm ever, but it's about using sexual arousal as a means to achieve changes in consciousness, and isn't there a similiarity to drug experiences somewhere?

Thanks for the book suggestion! I'll check it out.


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: ]
    #702010 - 06/26/02 12:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What is enlightenment? Is it a conscious state that once acheived leaves no chance of expanding your mind or improving you thought processes?

No, enlightenment is not a goal in itself. It is something which helps you to live life. It means that, through understanding the nature of consciousness, you would realize that there is no fixed self inside of you, but that you and the universe are in a constant flux. To borrow a metaphor by Alan Watts, we tend to think of ourselves as having "come" to this world, when, truly, the world brought us into existance like an apple-tree bearing an apple. So if you are an apple, it is because the universe is an apple-tree, not because the quality of an apple is something inside of you. Being enlightened would mean that there is no necessity to "improve your thoughts", as you are complete in every moment. You could, of course, go on with self-improvement if you wanted to, but you would do it with a different quality... you wouldn't be attached to it, you would do it the same way like breathing or eating, you would do it simply because breathing, eating and acting is what human beings do.

How will you know when you've reached such a state? Who would be so conceited as to assume themselves enlightened?

Someone who is enlightened wouldn't refer to himself as enlightened. But why should we act like someone who is enlightened? What is the point of faking something?


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: ]
    #702011 - 06/26/02 12:30 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I think of enlightenment as having achieved a state of consciousness that does not have worry over the material world, and focuses on the spiritual.

How would you achieve that as fast as possible?


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,336
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 9 days, 17 hours
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #702110 - 06/26/02 03:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Fastest way is being alone close to death, the whole world has a different meaning and if you're able to survive and apply what you've learned, everything you do will be done with much more confidence and success because you've seen the true path of life and the enlightment it gives will serve you till the end.
It happened to me already some years ago, it's not pleasent to deal with death for half a year, but it changed the way i see things, i feel more confident and my personality has got very strong, something i didn't have before, i see life everywhere and it makes me happy .

Peace,
MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #702124 - 06/26/02 03:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If you can find it, read "The Lazy man's guide to enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas.......first published in 1971. A slender read at 80 pages(for REALLY lazy people like myself).....a very fun book for those of us who are in no special hurry to become enlightened and who choose to enjoy every step of the way


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: MAIA]
    #702221 - 06/26/02 06:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>Fastest way is being alone close to death, the whole world has a different
>meaning and if you're able to survive and apply what you've learned, everything
>you do will be done with much more confidence and success because you've seen
>the true path of life and the enlightment it gives will serve you till the end.

I have to agree with Maia here. 6 months or 6 years or 6 seconds ... being close to death is a v. quick route to your destination. Like the Buddhist practice of meditating on decay and corruption. It all comes clear frighteningly fast...

My recommendations:

- being nearly knocked off a 300 foot high railway trestle by a speeding train
- almost drowning
- driving all day to reach your mom before she dies from cancer, only to get there too late and then sitting alone quietly by her body for a few hours


the Landotter


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: the_Landotter]
    #702246 - 06/26/02 07:08 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

My recommendation - ride a 1000cc sports bike in tokyo traffic, nde's are calculated at a per minute rate.

seriously tho, the one about your ma is saddening, must've been a hard day for you.


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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: mr crisper]
    #703289 - 06/26/02 06:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Or you can try and purposely have a fake "near death experience" while on drugs, which is technically the safer route. Or some day it might just happen to you like it did to me.

THe last time I did mushrooms I was driving for hours in a car and I thought we had all died in an accident. When they finally began to wear off I realized I was not dead and I became "enlightened". I experienced a profound understanding of life and the universe. This was the most horrifying and most amazing day of my life. Then I recently tried salvia for the first time and the bad trip picked up right where it left off! Even though I wasn't even thinking about it. 2nd try with salvia, same thing happened. NOw I'm afraid I'll never get out of this bad trip. But i'm going to keep going back again trying to fight it. Salvia is a good drug for this because the effects last only a few minutes.

Of course this technique has it's dangers too though. For instance, when I was in the car I almost jumped out on the freeway because I thought I was already dead, but that I had to kill myself again so my soul would accept the fact that I died and then I could go to "my heaven"


--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #703720 - 06/26/02 08:59 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I have a question:
Who REALLY gives a shit if one ever reaches some "mystical" state some call enlightenment?
I hope I'm never complete. I hope I never have the "ultimate perspective". God damn that would be so fucking boring!! I want to be wrong. I want to have miscommunications. I want to feel pain. Those things are what make all the good things in life so good. Fuck enlightenment. Just be, man. That's all there is. Oh and fuck aliens too.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Sclorch]
    #703743 - 06/26/02 09:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

sclorch...so zen, you are probably closer than all of us.
" Oh and fuck aliens too. "
i do already, they go off


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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Sclorch]
    #704048 - 06/26/02 11:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

enlightenment is not boring. First of all, you've obviously never been enlightened so you don't even know what you're talking about....

"just be man, that's all there is..."

yes, exactly, that's what enlightenment is, it's being to the very fullest. And yes, that includes pain and everything else. To the max. Enlightened people are not missing out on something... you're the only one who's missing out on everything because your'e not experiencing it with a full awareness.


--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #704588 - 06/27/02 06:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>"Just be man, that's all there is."

Ya might wanna slap a capital on the "be" there. Just Be. There, that's better.

Well, I know that enlightenment comes when you realize that you can't really help "being" so you may as well "be" as much as possible and then life takes on that certain intensity that simply cannot be denied. That moment when you realize that being dead, in a state of non-being, would really suck because then Dr Pepper wouldn't make that lovely dark fizzy feeling in your throat.

What I mean is that with enlightenment even the simplest things take on profound signifigance and meaning and inherent beauty.

I also like the idea that enlightenment can mean "becoming lighter" as in "less heavy". Freedom. The liquid state. You know it when you've got it.

Then there's good ol Jim Morrisons take on it:
"Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretty good, pretty good, pretty neat, pretty neat. All right!"


the Landotter


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: the_Landotter]
    #704643 - 06/27/02 07:36 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Are you enlightened? Do you speak from first hand knowledge?


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: ]
    #704662 - 06/27/02 07:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Given the definition I made above, I would have to say, for myself, that yes I feel myself to be enlightened. Things are clear, I feel free, my mind is my own. It may not be your particular brand of enlightenment ... in fact, it's a safe bet that it isn't and probably never would be, but it's mine and it works for me. Nuff said.

the Landotter


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: the_Landotter]
    #704737 - 06/27/02 08:36 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Then there's good ol Jim Morrisons take on it:
"Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretty good, pretty good, pretty neat, pretty neat. All right!"


JM, one of the great (bloated, alcoholic, pedophilic, out-of-control) Masters of all time. Thus he spake to his disicples showing them their ignorance:

I'm your back-door man!
Yeah, I'm your baaaaack-door man!
You don't know
What the little girls understand.





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Swami]
    #704762 - 06/27/02 08:47 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Dagon's Teeth! Swami, you say you're from California? You sound more like a native Australian. They hate JM in Australia for those exact reasons. I like JM (musically) and yet, I love Australians, as many and as often as possible. It seems I am human, otherwise how could I encompass this apparent contradiction? Whereas you appear to be a one-track/trick pony ... no offense, mind. Loosen up!


the Landotter - no one's disciple


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: the_Landotter]
    #704818 - 06/27/02 09:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Huh? Where did I say that I didn't like JM and the Doors? Just don't believe his self-destructive ways were indicative of any real grasp of life.

Gee, always thought I was multi-dimensional. What is my one trick?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Enlightenment: Wow, I wish I were there!! [Re: Swami]
    #704939 - 06/27/02 10:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Typingwords: enlightenment is not boring.
I think you've put too much emphasis on my sarcastic and somewhat polemical subject heading.

In my post, I said: "I hope I'm never complete. I hope I never have the 'ultimate perspective'. God damn that would be so fucking boring!!"

First of all, you've obviously never been enlightened so you don't even know what you're talking about....
I never claimed I was or have been enlightened... I just stated my mind. "Never been"- does this mean you can reach enlightenment and then REGRESS? Now enlightenment really sounds like hooey.

you're the only one who's missing out on everything because your'e not experiencing it with a full awareness
Have we met or something? I just don't see how you could get a grasp on who I am through a couple of my posts (I know you haven't read but a few of them).

the Landotter: Ya might wanna slap a capital on the "be" there. Just Be. There, that's better.
Actually, I'd rather slap a "becoming" over that "be".

evolving: Are you enlightened? Do you speak from first hand knowledge?
Well of course they're enlightened, duh. They've been posting on the spiritweb for like 6 months... geez.

Swami: Gee, always thought I was multi-dimensional. What is my one trick?
Isn't it obvious Swami? You're just a nay-saying, asshole skeptic! All you do is put down all the "enlightened" people around here. Geez, why can't you just leave them alone and let them be gods for awhile? You friggin' jerk. hehehe


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Swami]
    #705001 - 06/27/02 10:26 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>Huh? Where did I say that I didn't like JM and the Doors?

No where, dude! I was talkin' bout Australians! I said you sounded like them re:JM, but nowhere did I indicate for what reasons. Natch.

>Gee, always thought I was multi-dimensional. What is my one trick?

Well, apparently, it's spending all day in front of the computer haha! Just kidding guy, I envy you ... my vacation is over as of next week and soon I'll be gone from here. I haven't been posting here long but I wanna let you know that I appreciate the iron-clad scepticism you bring to this forum, it's just that (at least for me) I'd like to hear a little more from you in the way of your actual beliefs/convictions. It's dead easy to define yourself by drawing battle lines and showing how delusional everyone else is, quite another thing to strike out for yourself and find your own knowledge.

I see someone like Shroomism posting here and, though I don't necessarily agree with ALL he has to say (or at least I don't agree with all his interpretations), I am glad that he has the balls to put what he believes out there.

Me, I'm an atheist of the Copenhagen Interpretation sort. Belief is a tool, not an end in itself.

Break On Thru, My American Bro!


the Landotter


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Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: Wow, I wish I were there!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #705019 - 06/27/02 10:32 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>Actually, I'd rather slap a "becoming" over that "be".

Yeah! "Just Be Coming!" Over and over and over and over. I see a new field opening up in new-age self-realization porno! Thanks Sclorch! That IS what you meant, right?



>They've been posting on the spiritweb for like 6 months... geez.

What the hell is the spiritweb?


the Landotter


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #705050 - 06/27/02 10:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>Except, of course, when on drugs. While tripping, it is
>surprisingly easy to get sucked into just aboutanything.
>So maybe that's it. Just sitting cross-legged and
>bemushroomed under a Bodhi-tree, merging with the universe.
>Is it that?

"In the 60s you had your Timothy Learys and what's his name? "Cuckoo's Nest." Kesey. All those guys. They were at the wheel, they could see the road ahead, right? They told us all we had to do was get fucked up on LSD and we'd all turn into super-people and build the promised land out of rainbows and flowers. Shit. I FELL for that shit. Black light posters. I really thought we were changing the world. It actually felt for a moment that we were actually gonna WIN, man. When I finally came down it was 1985. Shit. From free love to safe sex, huh? Whatever happened to the revolution?"

"What did that arsehole have to say for himself? I understood only a little."

"He was talking about revolutions. Or THE REVOLUTION. I suppose there only is ever one. I think he felt let down by his driving instructors. He thought he just had to sit back in his seat and be TAKEN everywhere. He didn't realize they were just showing him what to do..."

- Bondage Guy, the Marquis de Sade and King Mob in conversation
from the Invisibles comic series by Grant Morrison


Sorry folks, I REALLY like the Invisibles! So applicable!


the Landotter


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: Wow, I wish I were there!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #705315 - 06/27/02 12:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

the Landotter: Ya might wanna slap a capital on the "be" there. Just Be. There, that's better.
Schlorch: Actually, I'd rather slap a "becoming" over that "be".

I would rather just slap the the both of yooze.

Well of course they're enlightened, duh. They've been posting on the spiritweb for like 6 months... geez.
Kewl! Two more months and I will finally discover the truth.

Swami: Gee, always thought I was multi-dimensional. What is my one trick?
Isn't it obvious Swami? You're just a nay-saying, asshole skeptic!

Yes, but a MULTI_DIMENSIONAL nay-saying, asshole skeptic!

All you do is put down all the "enlightened" people around here. Geez, why can't you just leave them alone and let them be gods for awhile?
Because the gods live for attention from humans.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: the_Landotter]
    #705361 - 06/27/02 12:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In the 60s you had your Timothy Learys and what's his name? "Cuckoo's Nest." Kesey. All those guys. They were at the wheel, they could see the road ahead, right? They told us all we had to do was get fucked up on LSD and we'd all turn into super-people and build the promised land out of rainbows and flowers.
They also told us to rebel against authority, not to latch on to a New, Improved authority.

Shit. I FELL for that shit. Black light posters. I really thought we were changing the world. It actually felt for a moment that we were actually gonna WIN, man.
We would have made it, but for the few with the black light posters who held us back. Their attachment to eye candy kept us grounded on the material plane and we never achieved critical mass. Damn you, black lighters! Damn you all to hell! *in his best young Charleton Heston impression*

When I finally came down it was 1985. Shit. From free love to safe sex, huh? Whatever happened to the revolution?"
Hip huggers and tie dyes are back. We have the New VW Beetle. The wheel has turned. We have one more chance to do it right! *Grabs a foxy hippy chick, some liquid, a little bud, a Phil Lesh CD and heads out to Burning Man...*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Swami]
    #705450 - 06/27/02 01:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

After reading through this thread I've decided to decree myself, "enlightened." With that in mind, here's a poll to find out how many more shroomerites are enlightened...


Are you enlightened?
I'm enlightened because while on a shrooms I came to understand everything in the universe
I'm enlightened because I follow the Bible
I'm enlightened and also the product of a virgin birth
I'm enlightened because I follow the Koran
I've been enlightened by telepathic communication with a superior alien race
Yes, it happened after I read the book "Enlightenment for Dummies"
No
Yes, I think so... uh, oh maybe not. How would I know?
I want no part of this bullcrap, Sclorch is the only truly enlightened one because he doesn't want to be



Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Swami]
    #705465 - 06/27/02 01:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>They also told us to rebel against authority, not to latch on to a New, Improved authority.

Well, that's just the point I was trying to make.

>We would have made it, but for the few with the black light posters who held us back.

Again, my point.

>Hip huggers and tie dyes are back. We have the New VW Beetle. The wheel has turned.

The wheel has NOT turned, at least as far as the evidence presented here shows. Fashions are not indicative of change and don't get me started on that damn "New Beetle". Crap. That car right there is "the revolution" re-packaged, obscenely marked up and re-sold to the people who never had a clue what the original car was about - efficiency, affordability and fun! Oh the fun is still there but it's FUN? licensed by VW and by gGod you're going to pay for it! Jeez, they even give you your own PLASTIC FLOWER to put in the little vase on the dash! Is it just me or is that the height of ridiculous?!



I drive a 2 door 83 Subaru GL with power everything, AC, 4WD, moon roof... the works. I bought the fucker last year for $300 (Canadian!) and spent about $500 fixing it up. I then painted it in greyscale "digital urban" camouflage (original grey base colour with black, light grey, silver, and white panels) and tricked it out fully. It goes like the proverbial bat out o hell and I can't seem to kill it. So the gGoddamn New Beetle (and all the other car manufacturers who force low-grade morons to buy a new piece of redundant crap every other year) can kiss my completely original, authentic, highly individualised personal rear bumper, thank you very much.

Wa-a-a-y OFF TOPIC!


the Landotter


--------------------
* * * * * * * * * *
Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: the_Landotter]
    #705492 - 06/27/02 01:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

So the gGoddamn New Beetle (and all the other car manufacturers who force low-grade morons to buy a new piece of redundant crap every other year) can kiss my completely original, authentic, highly individualised personal rear bumper, thank you very much.

Ooh, ooh! Methinks I struck a nerve. Nurse! More novocaine! Better yet, take two MDMA and call me in the morning.

OK, so the revolution passed you by and you didn't "get it". No Biggee. On second thought, you blew the once in a millenium chance to shed your societal skin. Dude, you f***** up!

Hmmmm, let's see. The next scheduled Love-In is in 3018, make your reservations early.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Swami]
    #705743 - 06/27/02 03:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

>OK, so the revolution passed you by and you didn't "get it". No Biggee. On second thought, you blew the once in a millenium chance to shed your societal skin. Dude, you f***** up!
Hmmmm, let's see. The next scheduled Love-In is in 3018, make your reservations early.

What the hell? Excuse me, but what does this "reply" have to do with anything I said?
Missed the revolution? Didn't get it? Huh?

Swami, I make my own revolutions. I shed my societal skin once a month and sell it
on eBay at huge profits. And oh gosh, I have a strong opinion on something in the
real world (ie. car manufacturers) so yeah, a nerve got struck. Ouch. I am stinging here.
Really.

Like I said before, I've only been posting here a short while but I've yet to see anything
close to an actual belief or opinion that YOU hold. Let's have it. Or are you worried
that it'll get torn apart? Take your own medicine, Doc.


cheers!

the Landotter


--------------------
* * * * * * * * * *
Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: the_Landotter]
    #706083 - 06/27/02 06:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Belief, hmmm...

"Don't believe anything. Regard things on a scale of probabilities.
The things that seem most absurd, put under 'Low Probability', and
the things that seem most plausible, you put under 'High Probability'.
Never believe anything. Once you believe anything, you stop thinking
about it. The more things you believe, the less mental activity. If
you believe something, and have an opinion on every subject, then
your brain activity stops entirely, which is clinically considered a
sign of death, nowadays in medical practice. So put things on a scale
or probability, and never believe or disbelieve anything entirely."
-- Robert Anton Wilson


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: the_Landotter]
    #706086 - 06/27/02 06:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Like I said before, I've only been posting here a short while but I've yet to see anything close to an actual belief or opinion that YOU hold.

So... now we gotta have beliefs to be able to post here?
Sheeeeyit! I done fo-got mine back in muh truck. Durn it!

Perhaps you've misidentified the Swami as someone who is so insecure with their own beliefs that they must display them on a regular basis so as to gain the approval of others in order to feel more confident about those beliefs. So, chief, if you read between the lines I'm sure one day you'll come to know his "beliefs". I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinepsilyhunter
Big Nerd
Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 38
Loc: Wherever I am
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #706828 - 06/28/02 12:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:



Someone who is enlightened wouldn't refer to himself as enlightened. But why should we act like someone who is
enlightened? What is the point of faking something?




Imatio Dei (sp?)


--------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chart your own course... but only from here to there.


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Offlinepsilyhunter
Big Nerd
Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 38
Loc: Wherever I am
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #706834 - 06/28/02 12:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

I think that my intellectual understanding of enlightenment is quite good.




This alone should hinder you nicely!


--------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chart your own course... but only from here to there.


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Offlinepsilyhunter
Big Nerd
Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 38
Loc: Wherever I am
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Sclorch]
    #706840 - 06/28/02 12:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

I think of enlightenment as having achieved a state of consciousness that does not have worry over the material
world, and focuses on the spiritual.




Or is that death?


--------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chart your own course... but only from here to there.


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Offlinepsilyhunter
Big Nerd
Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 38
Loc: Wherever I am
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #706845 - 06/28/02 12:15 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

enlightenment is not boring. First of all, you've obviously never been enlightened so you don't even know what you're
talking about....




I mean this in the nicest way, but how many times have YOU been enlightened? Its not obvious. How can you know more about what another person is talking about than they do?

Thats the pot calling the pot a pot on pot.


--------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chart your own course... but only from here to there.


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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: psilyhunter]
    #707380 - 06/28/02 09:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

A person who has experienced the fullest state of awareness would not diss on this state. A person who has not would and did. I have experienced it once. Yes, you can experience enlightenment and then regress. This is common when on drugs. A person who has not experienced this state has no right to talk about how boring and stupid it is. understood?


--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #707495 - 06/28/02 10:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I sure am glad I can count on your superior authoriTAH whenever the topic of enlightenment surfaces. I mean we'd all be in a real bind... if it weren't for your wisdom we might worshipping giant bronze sculptures of pigeon corpses because the bum we thought was enlightened was just a schizophrenic necrophiliac with a thing for the "flying rats". But really... that would be more interesting than most "enlightened" people (here, at least) would come up with. Alas, there are no books on dead pigeon worship or any dead bird worship for that matter. That's probably only because books on aliens currently sell better than would an "enlightening" book on dead fowl worship. However, you can bet that as soon as (if ever) that book comes out, I'll be the first in line at the book store.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #707513 - 06/28/02 10:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Typingwords wrote:
Yes, you can experience enlightenment and then regress. This is common when on drugs.
It is also common to have impaired judgement when on drugs.

Typingwords wrote:
A person who has not experienced this state has no right to talk about how boring and stupid it is. understood?
No, this is not understood. Rights do not derive from an individual's experience. Does your supposed "enlightenment" make you the final arbiter of who has rights? This doesn't read like a very enlightened reaction to me.


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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: ]
    #708664 - 06/28/02 07:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I wrote:
A person who has not experienced this state has no right to talk about how boring and stupid it is. understood?

WHat I meant was:
THis person can talk all they want, oh yes, they have every constitutional and godgiven right, to talk about how it would feel to experience this thing that they have never experienced, and everyone else has the god-given right to listen to him, but why the hell would you want to do that? Becuase that person's opinoion doesn't count for shit. understand now?

sorry I didn't know we were going to get all technical.
I think it's pretty obvious what I meant, so please don't make me waste my time like this again. thank you.


--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever


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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 days
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: ]
    #708684 - 06/28/02 07:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"This doesn't read like a very enlightened reaction to me."

sorry, but i wasn't trying to give you an enlightened reaction. I never claimed to be enlightened at the moment.



--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever


Edited by Typingwords (06/28/02 07:25 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Enlightenment: BOR-RING [Re: Typingwords]
    #708695 - 06/28/02 07:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

So, if you are not, and have never been enlightened, how can you say that being enlightened is NOt boring?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Enlightenment: The fast Way. [Re: Nomad]
    #709393 - 06/28/02 10:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

To me, enlightenment is simply a partial return to the innocence that is lost throughout life. It is the crossing of a psychological barrier. A person once said "be careful what you put into your head, because you will never get it out". I see enlightenment as a high-level restructuring of the psyche that is capable of extracting the unwanted "garbage" in the mind that has been aquired through the years.


--------------------
:egyptian:


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