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I want enlightenment WITH the vices
    #8169991 -

Its hard to say but i wanna to "move forward" spiritually. However i also wanna smoke a phatty and make passionate love to my significant other for enjoyment.

This is my flaw and causing me to loose my mind. There are times where I'm at bliss experiencing wonderful states of happiness. Then I start focusing on drugs, sex, World of warcraft, ect.


It looks like i caint have both. It truley sucks


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"Nothing in the world is a gift. Whatever there is to learn has to be learned the hard way."
-Don juan

Edited by Spiritual Seeker (03/23/08 07:59 PM)

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170030 -

Examine your view of what is "spiritual". Apparently you are building a duality between your experiences, which in turn makes you horribly uncomfortable. Bring yourself together and I believe your anxiety will be quelled. Life and spiritual practice are the same, as with herb and great sex. I understand your feelings because I experience them as well, but it is a deception of the truth.


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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170136 -

You can have both!

I agree with wordless, in that you'd probably benefit from reevaluating the dichotomy you have placed between different experiences. I'll never forgive Plato for popularizing the material/pure form dichtomy, or Christianity for interpreting it into hatred of the body.

Let go of the guilt and learn to honour your body and it's pleasures. That can be incredibly spiritual. :yesnod:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170200 -

how can there be space within mind when it's constantly cluttered with the desire to do all of these things? you need room to move and breath if you want to experience the deeper aspects joy. fast out in the woods for 7 days in a tent in silence and maybe realize how your attachment to all of these things is acting as a hindrance towards experiencing more spacial, energetic blissful states. just a suggestion.

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: deranger]
    #8170235 -

I don't buy it. Being fully immersed in the present moment, being in the body... this is "spiritual."

Sex and romance, for example, can be "spritually" profound when one is releasing oneself into it. Not grasping onto a person or experience to drive away unpleasant feelings like boredom or loneliness, but accepting and opening into it in a 'non-attached' way.

"Energetic blissful states" can be found when one immerses fully into experience without clinging to the notion that it will last forever. Accepting the temporality of all experience and releasing into it, allowing it to shift and change, that's the trick.

Running from and suppressing desire will never work. If all you do is build a wall, it's one more barrier that keeps you fragmented and disjointed, struggling against yourself instead of finding a place off oneness, immersion.

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170256 -

Spiritual Seeker said:
It looks like i caint have both. It truley sucks


You can't have enlightenment either way.

You can have Samadhi (oneness) and all kinds of 'spiritual' highs and lows which include sex and drugs,
but Nirvana / Enlightenment is the realization that ultimately you (as identity) do not really exist.

Who is it that realizes this? Self-awareness is not awareness of self, it is awareness aware of itself.

It requires tremendous amounts of 'spiritual' energy for awakening to happen.
I think the 'rules' of the game have more to do with energy conservation than morality.

P.S. Your sig is actually a Woody Allen quote. :sun:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8170270 -

NiamhNyx said:
I don't buy it. Being fully immersed in the present moment, being in the body... this is "spiritual."

Sex and romance, for example, can be "spritually" profound when one is releasing oneself into it. Not grasping onto a person or experience to drive away unpleasant feelings like boredom or loneliness, but accepting and opening into it in a 'non-attached' way.


You must have missed my point, because this is what I was promoting. Sometimes it takes a bit of time away from the objects of attachment to realize one's attachment to them. Vipassana meditation retreats allow one to be in silence for 10 days observing the activities of the mind so that one can realize attachment to it. This is not running away from anything, it is confronting attachment and bringing it into awareness.

Maybe with awareness he can not just fuck to get off, rather enjoy the act of making love. That's my favorite part.

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Middleman]
    #8170283 -

Middleman said:
Spiritual Seeker said:
It looks like i caint have both. It truley sucks


You can't have enlightenment either way.

You can have Samadhi (oneness) and all kinds of 'spiritual' highs and lows which include sex and drugs,
but Nirvana / Enlightenment is the realization that ultimately you (as identity) do not really exist.


yeah, common misunderstanding. I just assumed he meant something along the lines of Samadhi.

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: deranger]
    #8170285 -

SyntheticMInd said:
You must have missed my point, because this is what I was promoting.  Sometimes it takes a bit of time away from the objects of attachment to realize one's attachment to them.  Vipassana meditation retreats allow one to be in silence for 10 days observing the activities of the mind so that one can realize attachment to it.  This is not running away from anything, it is confronting attachment and bringing it into awareness. 

Maybe with awareness he can not just fuck to get off, rather enjoy the act of making love.  That's my favorite part.


I guess I did miss your point. :smirk:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8170295 -

I definitely agree that such pleasurable activities as getting stoned, fucking, and lazing around are not incompatible with pursuing the spiritual path. Many spiritually-inclined people just happen to find them repugnant, and hell, if that's (not) their bag, why not.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8170366 -

I would like to express my gratitude towards all contributions to this thread, as an observer. The collective motion of thought leaves me amazed.


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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170447 -

I think that, if the sessions of sex drugs and games are not vortices
in which you are losing your integrity in conflict with your self,
then you will be where you want to be.

you need to see the complexes of inner conflict and face these in stillness
to stop specific & unfortunate mental habits.

something like that


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170449 -

use of the terms "enlightenment" and "vices" is a habit that is entangled in complexes IYKWIM
seeing will help with this too


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8170474 -

Find the balance between heaven & earth by realising heaven is earth, your selfish mind makes it into a hell.

Thats what frees me, theres been times where i wanted to die to escape my body, to be free, but then i realise i am free, it is your mind that says you are not free, free your mind & body.

I find asanas, a bit of meditation, reading, excercise, food & drink, films, sex, weed, shrooms, friends, work, music all as important as each other in my spiritual quest for full awakening.

I agree that for full enlightenment/awakening/nirvana you have to lose "you" yet there is also a compromise, "you" comes naturally as you perceive your self naturally as separate, work on seeing your self as not separate and the rest falls into place.


The best advice i could give anyone right now is accept everything as it is, this brings you into an immediate state of awareness of your self, your actions, your speech etc...acceptance is no wasted energy, no wasted energy = ecstacy & serene peace...


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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: WordlessNature]
    #8170517 -

WordlessNature said:
Examine your view of what is "spiritual". Apparently you are building a duality between your experiences, which in turn makes you horribly uncomfortable. Bring yourself together and I believe your anxiety will be quelled. Life and spiritual practice are the same, as with herb and great sex. I understand your feelings because I experience them as well, but it is a deception of the truth.


Why not?

You can have it all. Only you determine what you're about. Life is unbounded. People believe others and do what they say because they are too scared by the total and utter pointlessness and freedom of existance such that they get scared of the void of total potential. Too many choices leave most people of small intellect confused. but you, Profound thinker, can do and have it all, and all you have to do to get it is what you feel like doing without fear. And by not asking permission. Nobody can give you what only you can take. So take it. Be nice while you're at it. Nice people are rarer than diamonds.


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...or something






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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8170596 -

Spiritual Seeker said:
Its hard to say but i wanna to "move forward" spiritually. However i also wanna smoke a phatty and bang the shit out of my girlfriend for enjoyment.

This is my flaw and causeing me to loose my mind. There are times where im at bliss experiencing wonderful states of happiness. Then I sart focusing on drugs, sex, World of warcraft, ect.



If you are completely aware, you will see the reason why you want to indulge your desires: because the present moment isn't good enough. Sex can be experienced in the moment, but I think it's unlikely you will want to play World of Warcraft if you are truly in touch with the moment. WoW is all about getting to the next thing, acquiring power and possessions, building esteem and strength; all ego-driven pursuits.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8170676 -

Yeah i find im watching less and less tv, in a way i miss it then i realise what do i miss, being a mindless robot caught up in fake soaps?

Documentaries are where its at, i love weed more then ever i used to smoke to forget now i appreciate every delicious toke, cooking is very fullfilling too, making curries with veg etc, also giving respect to the animals that gave theyre lives to feed you, realising a life was taken to feed you, respect for life.

I dont know if i went off topic or not lol


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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8171892 -

Spiritual Seeker said:
Its hard to say but i wanna to "move forward" spiritually. However i also wanna smoke a phatty and bang the shit out of my girlfriend for enjoyment.

This is my flaw and causeing me to loose my mind. There are times where im at bliss experiencing wonderful states of happiness. Then I sart focusing on drugs, sex, World of warcraft, ect.


It looks like i caint have both. It truley sucks


Don't worry about it. Just go with the flow baby.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Icelander]
    #8175131 -

there's no questions or discrepancies when you're here, now

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Re: I want enlightenment WITH the vices [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #8175249 -

If you learn to 're-frame' your current way of thinking, you'll find that you can have much of your needs attended to, while learning to trim the non-essential excesses of late adolescence. For example, instead of "banging the shit out of my girlfriend," you might begin to fine tune your emotional development into 'making love with your girlfriend.' Eliminate the vulgarity, the subtle bragging and the covert hostility you still retain toward 'the feminine' in such a statement, and you'll find yourself closer to the sexual emotions of your girlfriend, not separated by residual hostility toward the feminine nature. Lose the macho attitude in other words and learn to draw closer to your girlfriend's emotional nature. Then, with 'banging,' 'screwing,' 'hammering' and all other male-dominated carpenter metaphors aside, you might get closer to the idea of Tantric sexuality.

Cannabis merely feeds the adolescent addiction to high alpha waves which apparently characterizes the predominent state of that phase of life. I work with adolescents and now have 11 year old potheads to deal with. Playing, blissing out, being lazy, reluctance or rebelliousness against the necessary cultivation of beta waves, which characterizes the adult mind means not wanting to do school work, homework or basically any kind of work.

Warcraft. The childhood mind is characterized by theta waveswhich correlate to creativity, creative play, imagination. With the loss of theta wave predomination, the laziness of high alpha wave output, exaccerbated by cannabis use, late adolescents plug into a game-programmer's creativity instead of eliciting their own creativity. Without creativity, dullness results, and it results in every possible facet of life: one's own personality being at the top of the list, one's problem-solving abilities, one's love-making, one's sense of aesthetics, etc.

So, unless you are like South Park's 'Cartman' character, creating a pimply-faced morbidly obese
Jabba-the-Hut of yourself, limit game-playing, like TV watching, to a minimum. Knock off cannabis use except for weekend use with an eye to eliminating it altogether (10 years of use were more than sufficient for me to miss countless important opportunities :frown:), and re-frame human sexuality for yourself in order to insure fully adult sexual relationships in the future. In the meantime, remember that the snake sheds its skin at the rate that it naturally happens. If you tear the skin off the snake, it dies. But that doesn't mean that the snake doesn't help things along a bit by sqeezing through forked branches and rocks, so effort is crucial.

Well...you didn't ask overtly, but complaining seems a covert request for advice, so here it is. Take it, or leave it.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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