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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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God, what to even say this is about?
    #1701485 -

(this is something that started out in that religion post, but i went off, and i decided to post it anyways, just to see how crazy everyone thinks i am. obviously, i missed a lot, and people will bring up what i missed, challenge certain parts of it, but that gives me a chance to respond, get other people's ideas in, working until all involved helped create sort of a mini-paradigm, basically a complex idea. cause you just can't tell someone a complex idea. it takes a bit to form... this is me going off again......i'll just post this now and get it over with)

I seriously think religion stemmed from the couple of people that found enlightenment (Jesus, Buddha, etc). They realized that describing how to get there, what the experience was like, in words was impossible. They had no way to give enlightenment to anyone. So they made some sort of guideline to it; parables, rituals, etc. However, with so many passing years, so many people interprepting and changing, observing the encapsulation but not discovering the message enclosed, people altering the words to fit their own needs, using the words as a weapon to hide fear behind.....

Everyone is different, has had different experiences. Everyone interprets their input just a little bit to a lot differently, because they have experienced different things to compare their new experiences to. Not everyone is going to get their original message as it was anyways, because of the different eyes they are looking through. Let alone communication barriers, thousands of years, corruption, and loss of the original meaning.

Think about communion. All you are doing is saying some phrase, eating some bread (or little paper/plastic-like wafers) and drinking wine. Then you walk back to your pew, and begin to sing again. That's all it is. But what is going on in your mind while you are doing it? Are you just wishing you could be back at home, are you despising your wife for dragging you hear week after week? When the church and the pastor throw phrases back and forth, and he then forgives you of all your sins, are you actually allowing youself to be forgiven?

Ever see the movie Pi? I like the part where he tells all of the Jewish mystics that even if he gave the number to them, it wouldn't reveal God, it wouldn't work, that it isn't the number itself but the meaning behind it?

And the thing is, is that we all find different meanings in things. The only way meaning continues at all is because when we are young, it is instilled into us. We don't already know what a dollar bill means. Why we can't say fuck because it is bad. If some baby gets stranded in the jungle and is raised by monkeys, he doesn't know what a dollar bill means, the concept of money, he doesn't know that it isn't right to say fuck, he doesn't even know how to say fuck.

Welcome to chaos, my friends, if you even truly exist. I mean, hell, maybe there is a computer that is creating all of your messages in some cruel Big Brother trick to make it appear that I am participating in an online message forum.
Now, tell me, since we already know that you people do exist, that you are behind some computer somewhere else when you posted the message, tell me that just because one person thinks that the world is flat, that it still isn't flat. He is ignorant, that we know it is round. What validates us over him?
Basically, what I want to know is, what is the one true, correct viewpoint? What one person is right?

I know who has the one flawless, most perfect and most truthful view. It's me. Let's say that I do believe the world is flat. Does the fact that other people, a large amount of people, believe the world is round disprove my belief? Strength in numbers makes something right?

The example I chose gets a little dicey, since it is something out of this physical world, I'll bring up slavery. With the exception of just a few white men here, all the white Americans back then believed that slavery was justified. The black slaves certainly didn't believe it was. They wanted to be free. Were they wrong, just because more white people believed they didn't have the same rights? That people had had slaves for thousands of years before?

I'm sorry, I've went off, lost focus, and covered too much ground. See what I mean? How hard it would be to get someone to think on the exact same frequency that I am? There's a lot of background shit that has to be understood first. The things we talk about on this forum, communicating back and forth, it is a lot easier for one to get what the other is saying, because we have similar experiences; we've come to accept a lot of the same ideas as being true. But try to explain the concept of our race evolving to 4th density to a 40 year old plumber that believed everything that his Establishment, over-protective mother told him. Don't play in the street? What if it is the middle of the night, no traffic, and you and your buddies need a flat surface and a light to throw a hackey sack back and forth.

Anyways, a lot of this probably didn't even need said, considering the fact that most of us have already realized a lot of it on our own, but how do I know that until I bring it up? Its all about the communication.
(I'll go to sleep now, or something. sorry everyone!)
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (08/13/03 03:47 PM)

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1701738 -

Quote:
Basically, what I want to know is, what is the one true, correct viewpoint?


There is no true viewpoint, there are only approximations to such a thing. To improve these approximations we can check the facts if it's about objective facts, and we can reason and argue if it's about morality. If it's about values or metaphysics, then all viewpoints are more or less equally valid, so the only thing we can do is bounce around ideas and see what happens.

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1702144 -

I have a belief, though, that everything is values and metaphysics, just on a different level. To us, this world appears real, we all appear real, and we can gather objective facts about this world. We could all just be a concept that some philosopher in a higher place thought up, as a possibility, never created. Think about some of these computer games, like The Sims. The more advanced computers get, the more advanced these games get.

Some day, we might have The Sims 25.0, where the game is capable of supporting 5 billion individual characters, and not only that, but can manage them all at once. The more advanced AI gets, pretty soon, the "thought processes" these characters go through would be just as complex as ours. What's the difference? It's all programming. Just as they'll never see through the computer screen and find our world, we'll never see outside our system, our boundaries. The original Idea that created everything has been so subdivided, so infinitely structured on every level, that anything is possible. Because it is allowed to be possible.

I agree, I am here right now, sitting in front of a computer. I can come up with a lot of objective facts about me and my surroundings (I have a fucking headache. The computer is silver). But all this is perceived, calculated, transferred, and judged by all of my internal programming. A Sim on The Sims 25.0, he could make some objective facts about himself and his surroundings.

That's what A.I. is about. LIke on wargames. If the enemy approaches, and he is weaker or disadvantaged, then prepare for battle. If the enemy approaches, and he is stronger, then try to negotiate. If the enemy retreats, and health is enough to pursue, then pursue. We have the exact same thought processes (although much more complex than that, I'm sure the Sims' are more complex too, that is very very basic thought lines, but it works as some sort of example)

We gather the same information, etc., we take on the same sort of individual identity. We know that we created them, basically, but do they know that? Like I said, they aren't that advanced now, but what about The Sims 25.0? What if they designed a version of the game right now that was specially made to be the only program on a new computer? They could do so much more with it with the technology and programming we have now by doing that.

Basically, this is all been a metaphor; WHAT makes us so sure that our reality is the absoulte real? The same programming that made The Sims can make Warcraft III. Wait, here's a good question. Do you think, with the advanced A.I. ability now, (not only in the gaming world, but say the military's or security's advancements), they could design a reality based game (like The Sims, for the most part), that would enable the possibility that one of the characters, say, could eat some shrooms, discover the original programming, and how he could use that programming to make his own game? It'd basically give the game a new dimension, the ability to create, and the "world" that that game knew would become an infinite, multi-faceted universe. Isn't that what we've done?
Anyways, Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (08/13/03 03:50 PM)

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1702269 -

My friend told me the other day that he read many theologists believe the Bible is extremely misinterperated, not just the meaning but the actual words. Like Jesus walking on water I guess was discovered to literally mean 'walking by the water'. Just translated wrong. Thats weird shit...so many millions of people base there lives on something that can be proven,at least, 'inaccurate'.


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:stash: + :bong: = :smile:

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: DellComputers]
    #1702314 -

you need to say things in a more concise manner.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: Malachi]
    #1702343 -

I'm trying to explain things too quickly, it's hard to be concise for me and not explain something fully. I should revise my posts though, when they get like that, to help it read better.
[edit] I think what it is, is that I am trying to write as I think, instead of planning out what I am working on, so its more a relfection of the way my mind works than an organized post. Sorry guys, I'll work on it.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1702432 -

Quote:
Do you think, with the advanced A.I. ability now, (not only in the gaming world, but say the military's or security's advancements), they could design a reality based game (like The Sims, for the most part), that would enable the possibility that one of the characters, say, could eat some shrooms, discover the original programming, and how he could use that programming to make his own game?


I like the way you think, I've been wondering about something like that for a while now. What would a "mushroom" for AI be? I suppose it would be a kind of resource cheat to give the AI more time to think. Or a source of randomness (the players music) that rearranges the thought process.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: pattern]
    #1703138 -

Anybody else have any thoughts? Anyone...?

Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1707580 -

Extremely nice work, fireworks_god. I like the style you used as well.

What you said in the first post was pretty much where my mind was at when I read it. I especially liked what you said about enlightenment. Thanks for the insight.

Now...to add some ideas.

*********

Computer hardware and software is so close to human "hardware" and "software" that it's quite strange when you notice all the similarities. There are just too many to list.

However, if the Sims were able to figure out the programming, they would need to be able to question their reality. The ability to question would have to be programmed into the software. If we humans were created by some other being on the "other side", then the ability to question our reality had to have been programmed in somehow. But then again...it may just be a "glitch", or an "error" in the "software".

I don't follow any religion, but what I've stated before reminds me of the story of Adam and Eve, God and Lucifer, etc. in the book of Genesis. I can't help but question the omnipotence of "God" in that story. It's a good example of the problem at hand.

Questioning "God's" authority or rebelling from it somehow had to have been within humanity's ability from the beginning...otherwise it was a "glitch". That doesn't seem omnipotent. God creates "good" and Lucifer creates something totally out of the box called "evil". Huh? Then again, the god could have also meant for it to happen that way. I take the whole Bible metaphorically.

The ability to question...that's the main difference between AI and humans, in my opinion. But that's if we are actually programmed by "something".

All of what I have said is just meant in a metaphorical fashion...I'm not trying to imply any dogma. Subjective...all the way.


--------------------
:poison: :poison: :poison:

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: Darkcloud]
    #1707791 -

Questioning "God's" authority or rebelling from it somehow had to have been within humanity's ability from the beginning...otherwise it was a "glitch".


And thus the forbidden fruit was consumed...


--------------------
AH HA....

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1708212 -

I think you're right on with the religion and enlightenment theory. It's ridiculous how much religions (specifically Christianity) have been adulterated through the years. Most people would be better off studying religion on their own in my opinion. At least they would find their own meanings in things rather than just believing everything that the church tells them to.


--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: dawn of a new day]
    #1708767 -

religions are just brand names. Christianity is a brand for "god", so is islam, Buddhism is a brand for compassion.

Religions are mere corporations who brand a marketable product, like god or compassion, then they develop an infrastructure: the church, monks etc. They use this infrastructure to dominate and control the product so it becomes synonymous with their brand.

in order to do this they convince people that they are the spiritual elite, so that the easily-persuaded will give them money, thusly increasing their power.

its all about profit, religion is just another industry.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1710487 -

Check this out fireworks_god

here


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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How Do I Do This Myself? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1729015 -

I just checked out johnnyfive's link. I am one of the few, few, few people that haven't seen any of the Matrix movies, albeit I have a good idea of what they are about (especially after reading that). I plan on seeing the movie, but that isn't what this is about.

I truly believe that what is considered as our normal view of reality isn't correct, that my belief encompasses what that post was about (I sort of brought it up in my first post). What I'm wondering now, is how does one actually do this? I know that if I am in the headspace that considers me to be one of the best bassists on the planet, that I can play anything I want without any real effort. I already know that I can play what I am attempting to play, and I play it. I know that if I am really in a depressed sort of move, and maybe I miss a fret, and begin to question the fact that I'm the fucking Bass God, that I start to fuck up.

Comparison: People go onstage, and they start freaking out, thinking they will suck and everyone will laugh at them. As long as they still walk out there, they are basically forced into remembering that they actually can play, since they truly don't want to suck in front of the audience, and at the end of the show, they're loving every minute of it, striking poses and what not. Ever heard that (I remember hearing that from Steve Vai, a fucking virtuso)?

I'm a very shy person. At least, I used to be, for the most part, I'm not anymore, but when I'm really baked, it comes back. I'd be baked at work, and go out to get dishes to bring back and wash, or go to the bathroom or whatnot, and everyone in the place would look at me. I really didn't want to be walking out there, and I guess I sort of stuck out, so everyone noticed me. So, once, I had to go out and bust tables, baked, and had to carry some chairs back across the restaurant, basically walking back and forth, shit like that. One of the customers was a hot chick (makes me somewhat more nervous). Well, I started thinking that I was in place, I'm just the fucking dishwasher, doing my job, and I did my thing, no one paid me any notice.

Anyways, I started out asking how one would be able to pull this sorcery shit off, slowing time and all of that. After saying all of that, I think it sort of revolves around belief. I don't know. Anyone here that can slow time? hehe
Anyways, anybody have any thoughts? Thanks.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (08/13/03 03:51 PM)

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Re: How Do I Do This Myself? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1809777 -

I'd like to bring this back up, see what people think about these posts nowadays.. thanks for taking interest.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: How Do I Do This Myself? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1809844 -

I believe spirituallity comes from within and only from within.  It is like a drug, what works for one could harm, or might not work for another.  People like the idea of someone who 'figured' it out and blindly follow such people because its easy.  Its easy to beilieve there is an omnipotent god that runs everything, and that he is responsible in some way for whatever happens in my life, but that is all an illusion.

It the journey of discovering these truths within that make the answers so rewarding to our lives.  They shape our consciousness and allow us to grow.  But not everyone wishes to tread such a difficult path, and so most take the one of least resistance.  All one must have to live in harmony with others is the tolerance and realisation that everyones belief is slightly differrent, and that no one belief is more meritable than another.

Uh, not sure if that was related to the topic, but i wrote it anyways... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: How Do I Do This Myself? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1809988 -

It is sort of related to the topic, as far as what people belief towards religion and all of that..
Good thoughts, by the way.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: Malachi]
    #1810070 -

What ever became of paragraphs? I'm sorry to nitpick, but it's so hard to tackle something when it comes at you as one big blob. Anyway, I 'll try to come back and read your post later when I have more time.


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: God, what to even say this is about? [Re: Jellric]
    #1810087 -

Hehe, I have worked on my spacing since then, that was back when I was really stoned and trying to keep up with the ideas... as you have seen, I now keep it broken up and spaced out. Hell, I'll even go up there now and do some editing, let it flow..

To the future readers, you won't even be able to tell what the problem was in the first place, haha. For more understanding, check out my shrooms ratings... I think maybe two mention my poor spacing techniques...I must say that I have quite improved on my mistakes. (hell, I even indent, but for some reason it doesn't show up when you view it...)
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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