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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Religion and God
    #1911013 - 09/12/03 10:52 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Hi,

I thought I would throw out some of my thoughts on religion and
God:

I believe that an intelligence exists in this universe. I will
admit that I have no proof of this and that I base this belief on a
visceral feeling that I have. I believe that this intelligence had a
hand in our creation and growth, cares for us, and has motivations
and abilities that are absolutely beyond our comprehension. I have
designated this intelligence as "God".

Neither I, nor anybody else, knows the extent of God's
participation in Man's existence. Did he directly and knowingly
create us? If he did, are we his divinely chosen superior species on
this planet, or are we just another species amongst many? Does God
play a part in our current existence? Does he interfere with reality
at all? Does he just sit back and watch us exercise our free will,
or is all of reality under the complete preordained planning and
control of his Will? What does God do, to what extent does he do it,
and how does he do it? These are all questions which unfortunately
will never be answered.

God holds the key as to what right and wrong are. God holds the
key to Purpose. Without His will and unquestionable righteousness on
the important subject of what Man is supposed to strive for, we are
left with nothing; no structure, no boundaries, and no purpose. I
classify this knowledge of what is right and wrong and what
individuals should strive for as "Absolute Truth".

All religions state that they alone have the secret of Absolute
Truth. The monotheistic ones claim that God has a plan for us and
wishes for us to obey certain rules and strive for certain things.

These monotheistic religions attempt to understand and apply God's
will. I have concluded that they are all almalgimations of Man's
guesses, hopes, and outright fabrications. Even if some religious
teachings are divinely inspired, they are still interpreted, taught,
and enacted by Men, which makes them easily corrupted and therefore
suspect.

God has failed Mankind. He has not given us an accurate and
infallible representation of His will. He has not given us the
capability of understanding His will. He has not given us the
strength and fortitude needed to consistently obey His will.

With all of these flaws with the human condition, how is it possible
for any member of Mankind to know or follow Absolute Truth?

How can an advanced thing such as God, be responsible for creating
such a pathetically lost creature as Man and placing Him in a
hopeless situation? Is our existence meant as a large practical
joke? Is it meant to be a grand epic? Is it meant to be anything?



RandalFlagg


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1911022 - 09/12/03 10:55 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

If you are capable of asking questions as good as those, then you will be capable of finding the answers to them.

But don't take anyone else's answers. They're all trying to screw you.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineJackden
Juggernaut

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 34
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1911026 - 09/12/03 10:56 PM (14 years, 14 days ago)

did you ever think maybe god is just like us maybe he can create this shit like our technology our tools but he can mold and shape matter maybe it doesnt even know why it exists maybe it put us here to figure him out? ever think bout that maybe this intelligence has no fucking clue what it is.just like animals they both fear and admire us we can give them food take care of them or we can kill them instantly.


--------------------
fight club was great tyler durden my hero and jack the person i relate to


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Offlineaminitaman
FUK THAGOVERNMENT,IMSMOKIN' BLUNTSAND LOVIN' IT

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Tha BlueGrass State,Kentu...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 days
Re: Religion and God [Re: Jackden]
    #1911524 - 09/13/03 02:36 AM (14 years, 14 days ago)

Nice Questions RandalFlag,Honestly man I dont know the answers to any of your questions,and I would guess that noone else does either,but man Religion is something I think we have to figure out and he'll take care of the rest until we die and meet him and then I think we will have the option to either stay in heaven with him or enter another world,a second life but have your same soul of course. I think that everyone has their own religion,everyone does not agree on some things about certain religions and some people do agress about certain things in certain religions,but I dont classify a group of people as Baptist or Catholics, I dont really classify people at all, I mean Im not going to lie, I do kind of judge people before I get to know them and that is the worst mistake one can ever make,EVER!!!Anyways, I just think that every person has their own Religion, whether it be Baptist or Catholic I dont know, but I really dont see the reason in even saying,"Hey, I'm a Baptist,What are you." Ya know,I dont really like it when people do that because that really means that they are what someone else is because they were taught that or because they were forced to beleive that,one has the option of beleiving what one wants and what one doesnt want to beleive in and that is their own opinion. For example, almost any kid is raised by his parents and they take him to the church that they go to all the time,so in actuality this kid is going to grow up thinking that whatever that preacher said is what he is supposed to do. But that is where people,all people go wrong,you have the power to beleive what you want,I think one should get out and explore in life and gain knowledge through whatever sources needed to gain it, and then one will be capable of thinking or beleiving what he/she wants to beleive and that will be that persons Religion for the rest of he/she's lifetime until they meet up with their GOD. I do beleive in GOD and I do believe that he put us here for a certain reason, and that is to beleive in him, no matter what, atleast to beleive in him and I think as long as you do that, I think he should accept us into the kingdon of heaven!Now, about Jesus thought, I really dont know if he was a real person or not, Honestly I want to beleive that because the bible says to beleive it, but I really dont believe in the bible because it was not wrote by GOD. But if it takes me beleiving in something that I dont neccesarly believe in just to spend eternity in HEAVEN then I will do that, because I want to be with GOD for the rest of time!!!And no matter what I dont think that this can be taken away from me, Now JESUS might of been real and he might not of been real, that is for us to find out, but I have doubts but then again I do beleive that he was real, I will never find that out. I do consider myself a christian thought, and I dont think that anyone should be able to take that away from me, I have prayed to GOD and asked him to come into my heart and be my savior, and I did tell him that I beleive his son died on the cross, but now re-thinking over that I lied to GOD. And it almost makes me cry thinking that I could Lie to one with so much Higher Power than me and Lie to the One that created me and this awesome Earth we live on, I just really would like GOD to forgive me for this and please accept my apologies and please accept me when I die here on Earth and allow me to come into HEAVEN, I hope so much that he understands me and does not take my beleifs away from me and still will accept me into the Kingdom of HEAVEN when I die.
I hope someone got something from this and maybe this will change your thoughts about maybe not having a GOD, I hope now that you beleive in GOD, and those that do beleive in GOD no what I am saying, just please pray for me and for others who are lost, and please help people find their way to the GREAT KINGDON OF HEAVEN!!!!
thanks for everyone's time,
ZAC FENNEL.


--------------------
________________________________
IF IN DOUBT,PLEASE THROW'EM OUT!
________________________________
fa'shizzle dizzle
its tha big parafenizzle
with tha big mushroomizzle
ya gotta know its off tha hizzle


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1911539 - 09/13/03 02:44 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)

I do agree that these are questions you must answer for yourself. If you believe in christianity, or are even open to it, every question you have can be answered directly and irrefuteably by bible scripture. Not vagueness open to many interpretations.. but pretty blunt wording.

"Even if some religious teachings are divinely inspired, they are still interpreted, taught, and enacted by Men, which makes them easily corrupted and therefore suspect. "

If, (I do believe that there is no if in this statment.. but, for the purposes of illustration) there is an omniscient being, a superbeing.. god.. what have you, then I just dont understand why it is so hard to believe that he couldnt make a writing, be it written by or through other people, that is his word. I mean hell, if he can create the heavens and the earth he can definately proofread the ramblings of some apostles and mystics.


"God has failed Mankind. He has not given us an accurate and
infallible representation of His will. He has not given us the
capability of understanding His will. He has not given us the
strength and fortitude needed to consistently obey His will."

Again, it all depends on what type of relationship you choose to have with him as just like the most ferral animal or smallest flower, he has given us all we need. Our logic being greater and being created in his image, he has given us the ability to understand his will. Not only did he give us the old testament.. but just because we were foggy he sent his son, a physical manifestation of his spirit to earth to teach, heal and give faith to his creation and provide us with the new testament....

In anycase, I wish you luck on your journey. I will admit that some of the questions you have are the same that I, as a christian have and hope to one day ask God myself....

"Does he just sit back and watch us exercise our free will,
or is all of reality under the complete preordained planning and
control of his Will? What does God do, to what extent does he do it,
and how does he do it? "


--------------------


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,728
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 month, 2 days
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1911971 - 09/13/03 06:08 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

I believe that this intelligence had a hand in our creation and growth, cares for us, and has motivations and abilities that are absolutely beyond our comprehension. I have designated this intelligence as "God".



Or maybe this intelligence can be viewed as multiple gods, each one having different motivations and involvements, sometimes conflicting with other gods.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1911991 - 09/13/03 06:35 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
God holds the key as to what right and wrong are. God holds the
key to Purpose. Without His will and unquestionable righteousness on
the important subject of what Man is supposed to strive for, we are
left with nothing; no structure, no boundaries, and no purpose. I
classify this knowledge of what is right and wrong and what
individuals should strive for as "Absolute Truth".




We still have structure, boundaries, and purpose, even without God making them: we ourselves made them. Now, has some divine force laid out moral rights, or have we ourselves made them as a necessity of surviving, or of controlling other people?

Perhaps the point of the universe's creation was to NOT set up any structure, boundaries, and purpose. We are left to evolve on our own. This is the way life has advanced on this planet for billions of years prior..

Quote:


God has failed Mankind. He has not given us an accurate and
infallible representation of His will. He has not given us the
capability of understanding His will. He has not given us the
strength and fortitude needed to consistently obey His will.





Maybe, then, there is no will? The idea of a monothesitic God watching over all of us and so forth really has no proof... I believe in the Creator, some sort of being that everything we know is what composes him, and He is only subdivided and infinitely subdivided so that He can experience himself, whether that is consciously or unconsciously, I do not know..

Let's say for a moment that there IS a monothesitic God as he is widely known in Christianity.. How the hell can WE, humans, say that we know the will of God, and so forth that He has failed us? Maybe it was his will to give us no understanding of his will?

Do you think that we should all automatically be instilled with strength and fortidude to do his bidding, which we have no way of knowing what that is? Or is strength and fortitude of one's faith something that comes from inside?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1912343 - 09/13/03 12:52 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

God holds the key as to what right and wrong are. God holds the
key to Purpose. Without His will and unquestionable righteousness on
the important subject of what Man is supposed to strive for, we are
left with nothing; no structure, no boundaries, and no purpose. I
classify this knowledge of what is right and wrong and what
individuals should strive for as "Absolute Truth".


it's troublesome how much of western thought has been built upon such a shaky foundation as the unprovable existance of an unknowable being.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Religion and God [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1912436 - 09/13/03 01:26 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)


If you are capable of asking questions as good as those, then you will be capable of finding the answers to them.


These questions are unanswerable, because there exists no proof
to support any of the answers.

If I were to come to a conclusion, it would just be a guess.
And, my guess is going to differ from everybody else's guesses
on the subject. If there is no undeniable "Absolute Truth" to
compare your ideas too, then you have no clue as to how accurate you
are. God and "Absolute Truth" are impossible to find and know.
Anybody who claims to know either is a deluded, scared, a fool, or a
liar.



RandalFlagg


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Religion and God [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1912461 - 09/13/03 01:35 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)


Let's say for a moment that there IS a monothesitic God as he is widely known in Christianity.. How the hell can WE, humans, say that we know the will of God


Exactly my point. We don't know the will of God.


He has failed us? Maybe it was his will to give us no understanding of his will?


He has left us lost, with no verifiable hope of finding our way.
I consider that to be a failure, and a dooming of human existence.


Do you think that we should all automatically be instilled with strength and fortidude to do his bidding


Yes, I do.

How can he expect obedience and the acting out of His will, if
he did not give us the tools to accomplish this?



RandalFlagg


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1912499 - 09/13/03 01:47 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Exactly my point. We don't know the will of God.....

He has left us lost, with no verifiable hope of finding our way.
I consider that to be a failure, and a dooming of human existence....

How can he expect obedience and the acting out of His will, if
he did not give us the tools to accomplish this?





So, then, we don't know the will of God? Then how can you consider what he has done as a failure? As we don't know his will, then how can we say he has failed?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Religion and God [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1912524 - 09/13/03 01:56 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)


So, then, we don't know the will of God? Then how can you consider what he has done as a failure? As we don't know his will, then how can we say he has failed?


Whatever His will is or isn't, He has left us lost. If that was His intention, then I think it was terribly unfair of Him to do so.




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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1912579 - 09/13/03 02:11 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

I also have this feeling of a higher power that controls our lives, however i ignore it and dont belive in it because i know its just my human nature having trouble gaining indipendance from my family. Just goes to show you you dont always have to trust your instincts, but thats just me. There could very well be a "God" and a heaven and angels and leprachauns and Ninja Turtels....... But if iam suppose to trust the same human "feelings" that tell me i want to kill someone when i am really angry at them to go to heaven the is God messing around with us? Is life a guessing game? Is the purpose of life to realize that their is a God with no hard evidance? Maybe......................................................................or maybe not..........................then again.........


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1912626 - 09/13/03 02:30 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

I thought I would throw out some of my thoughts on religion and God

sounds like a fine idea.  :wink:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1913168 - 09/13/03 05:43 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Whatever His will is or isn't, He has left us lost. If that was His intention, then I think it was terribly unfair of Him to do so.





I don't really believe in the idea of a God creating us and suspossedly guiding us. We have free will. All of the choices are ours to choose, everything for us to learn for ourselves. It is by far better this way.

I mean, once someone pushes their intents and purposes on another, even if it is say God, we run into trouble... perhaps our entire purpose here is no purpose? We are to create our purpose on our own?

The blank sheet of paper, we are left to paint whatever the fuck we wish..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMusicSucks
Illegal Smile
Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 35
Re: Religion and God [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1913221 - 09/13/03 05:57 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

I will admit that I have no proof of this and that I base this belief on a visceral feeling that I have.



Have you ever questioned why you have this "visceral feeling", such as exploring the fact that cultures for thousands of years have assumed the existence of divine beings and caused belief in god to be so much a part of history and life in general? People believe things for a reason, even if they aren't necissarily true.


--------------------
There is no dark side of the moon really... Matter of fact, it's all dark.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Religion and God [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1913247 - 09/13/03 06:07 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)


I don't really believe in the idea of a God creating us and suspossedly guiding us. We have free will.


Of course we have free will. I never said that God guided us(although
none of us really knows). But, if God exists then I assume He
has a proper knowledge of how things are and how one is to conduct
themself. I just wish that we knew what these things were.


All of the choices are ours to choose, everything for us to learn for ourselves. It is by far better this way.

perhaps our entire purpose here is no purpose? We are to create our purpose on our own?

The blank sheet of paper, we are left to paint whatever the fuck we wish..


So, you are saying that a Creator probably exists, but doesn't really
give a shit about our conduct? That is possible as well. Nobody
knows and nobody will ever know, and that is so damn depressing.





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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Religion and God [Re: MusicSucks]
    #1913257 - 09/13/03 06:11 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)


Have you ever questioned why you have this "visceral feeling"


All of the time. I recognize that it could be social conditioning
that has implanted this idea of a "noble creator" in my head. I
also recognize that it could be that I just naturally came to the
conclusion of my own accord. Either way, it doesn't matter, because
I implicitly believe in a Creator no matter how much I try to use
logic to disprove it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1914796 - 09/14/03 07:10 AM (14 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Nobody knows and nobody will ever know, and that is so damn depressing.
   




It is only depressing if you make it depressing.. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Religion and God [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1917718 - 09/15/03 11:22 AM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I believe that an intelligence exists in this universe. I will
admit that I have no proof of this and that I base this belief on a
visceral feeling that I have. I believe that this intelligence had a
hand in our creation and growth, cares for us, and has motivations
and abilities that are absolutely beyond our comprehension. I have
designated this intelligence as "God".
GOD ISN'T APART OF THE UNIVERSE, BUT IS THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING EXTENDING BEYOND. GOD LOVES ALL UNCONDITIONALLY NO MATTER WHAT.

Neither I, nor anybody else, knows the extent of God's
participation in Man's existence. Did he directly and knowingly
create us? If he did, are we his divinely chosen superior species on
this planet, or are we just another species amongst many? Does God
play a part in our current existence? Does he interfere with reality
at all? Does he just sit back and watch us exercise our free will,
or is all of reality under the complete preordained planning and
control of his Will? What does God do, to what extent does he do it,
and how does he do it? These are all questions which unfortunately
will never be answered.
THERE IS NO SUPERIOR SPECIES ON THIS PLANET OR ANY OTHER. WELL NOT THE WAY YOU MEAN ANYWAY. EVERYBODY HAS THERE OWN ROLE TO FILL IN THIS THEATRE WE CALL LIFE. DON'T KNOW WHY YOU KEEP SAYING HE, GOD IS EVERYTHING SO NO NEED TO GIVE GOD A GENDER, COLOUR, OR ANYTHING ELSE. WE CREATED OURSELVES LIKE WE ARE TODAY, WE ALL ARE APART OF GODS DIVINE PLAN BUT WE ALL CHOOSE THE WAY TO BECOME ONE AGAIN.
God holds the key as to what right and wrong are. God holds the
key to Purpose. Without His will and unquestionable righteousness on
the important subject of what Man is supposed to strive for, we are
left with nothing; no structure, no boundaries, and no purpose. I
classify this knowledge of what is right and wrong and what
individuals should strive for as "Absolute Truth".
GOD DOESN'T HOLD THE KEYS OF RIGHT AND WRONG. WE DO BECAUSE WE JUDGE EVERYBODY ELSE SO MUCH SOCIETY HAS JUDGED WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG. WE HAVE A PURPOSE OF BEING ONE AGAIN WITH GOD, IN THE MEAN TIME WE HAVE SET OUR OWN BOUNDERIES, AND STRUCTURES TILL WE DROP THIS TOO WE WILL OPEN TO CHANGE AND WILL BE READY TO EVOLVE ONE WITH GOD.

All religions state that they alone have the secret of Absolute
Truth. The monotheistic ones claim that God has a plan for us and
wishes for us to obey certain rules and strive for certain things.
ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY. GOD NEVER GAVE US A SET OF RULES TO LIVE BY, ITS SET UP BY CONTROLING PEOPLE, BECAUSE ALL THEY WANT IS POWER.

These monotheistic religions attempt to understand and apply God's
will. I have concluded that they are all almalgimations of Man's
guesses, hopes, and outright fabrications. Even if some religious
teachings are divinely inspired, they are still interpreted, taught,
and enacted by Men, which makes them easily corrupted and therefore
suspect.

God has failed Mankind. He has not given us an accurate and
infallible representation of His will. He has not given us the
capability of understanding His will. He has not given us the
strength and fortitude needed to consistently obey His will.
WE HAVE TO CAPABILITY TO UNDERSTAND, BUT SOCIETY HAS TAUGHT US TO IGNORE SUCH THINGS, GOD DOES NOT HAVE WILL GOD JUST WANTS US TO BE. WE HAVEN'T ALLOWED OURSELVES TO HAVE ENOUGH STRENGTH AND FORTITUDE IT WASN'T ANY OF GODS DOING.

How can an advanced thing such as God, be responsible for creating
such a pathetically lost creature as Man and placing Him in a
hopeless situation? Is our existence meant as a large practical
joke? Is it meant to be a grand epic? Is it meant to be anything? WE CREATED OURSELVES AS HUMANS, WE CAN CHANGE BUT DOING SO WE HAVE TO RID OFF ALL OUR HABITS, BELEIFS AND CONDITIONING BY SOCIETY. GOD DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO BETTER OUR SOCIETY BECAUSE OF FREE WILL WHEN WE WANT TO CHANGE AND ACCPET THAT WE CAN CHANGE WE WILL EVOLVE TO BETTER AND HIGHER BEINGS.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE MORE ANSWERS THERE ARE NUMEROUS OF GREAT BOOKS OT READ
HERE ARE A FEW
CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD 1, 2, 3
THAT IS A GREAT SERIES YOU WILL LEARN ALOT ABOUT HUMANITY
ANOTHER
DAN MILLMAN BOOKS
WAY OF THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
SACRED JOURNEY OF THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
AND ALSO
BETWEEN TWO WORLDS BY ANNE MORTEN


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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