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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
De-Programming
    #1647835 - 06/20/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I just saw a cool movie from the 70s: Network. It's a "dark comedy about Network TV", although really it is an exposition about capitalist power -- point is still relevant today, I recommend it.

Anyway, in the movie one of the characters rants about the programming on TV, calling it for what it is; he speaks about the TV generation, who were/are brought up learning their entire (non-local) reality from the tube. Another character is called "TV incarnate", being all programming and no authenticity.

My first question is this: how can you recognize programming in yourself? How can you seperate a "programmed impulse" (I.e. an insidious meme planted by Madison Avenue or related slimebrains) from your authentic drives and self? And I don't mean this question in some fluffy neo-New-Agey -write-a-journal -and-it'll-all-be-fine way....do you know of an actual technique for "meta-programming", as John Lilly, Robert Anton Wilson, Leary, etc, call it? NLP? Psychedelic psychoanalysis?

My second question is: what is the least obvious but most surprisingly strong source of programming/"mind-virus dissemination" that you have cottoned on to? (e.g. "TV", unspecified, is relatively obvious. A particular show that may be giving a different message than what it is purportedly about could qualify as non-obvious.)

And, just to throw this open to conspiracists also: what (!EVIL!) are the (!EVIL!) motivations behind (!EVIL!) programming the (666) populace? What behaviours is the (!EVALS!) programming supposed (SSALG TAE) to produce in the populace?





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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: De-Programming [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1647845 - 06/20/03 12:43 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"I'm really really mad, and I'm not going to take it anymore..." :wink:
hehe, love that movie 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
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Re: De-Programming [Re: lucid]
    #1647857 - 06/20/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


>How can you seperate a "programmed impulse" (I.e. an insidious meme
>planted by Madison Avenue or related slimebrains) from your
>authentic drives and self?
according to the Buddha (which I wouldn't consider New Age tripe),
everything is programmed, i.e. there is no "authentic self" - if
I understand Buddhism correctly. The part that I find a bit
confusing is at the same time Buddha/ism do talk about a True
State of Being (Note: not "self" but "state of Being" - subtle
diff here I guess) once there is no more self and one is "Liberated"
so to speak.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: De-Programming [Re: lucid]
    #1647903 - 06/20/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I find that true, that all we have has been programmed into us. I guess the thing to do is to start watching everything you do and think, everything you like and dislike, and then figure out the reasoning for all of it. Decide what you truly like about yourself, what you don't, and then eliminate what you don't.
Basically, it is still all programming that we've picked up, including our thought patterns, language, behavior, and all that, but at least we have a choice now that we are capable of realizing that to decide what makes "us". Hell, if you decide you don't even like the language we use, learn Sanskrit. I don't know. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: De-Programming [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1648003 - 06/20/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The worst part is that the people around you serve to keep you in a certain mind-state of "the program". Sorta like when the agents morph out of a commen person in the matrix.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: De-Programming [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1648010 - 06/20/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>The worst part is that the people around you serve to keep you in a
>certain mind-state of "the program"

true, social pressure to conform to concensus reality is high...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: De-Programming [Re: lucid]
    #1648024 - 06/20/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Buddha/ism do talk about a True
State of Being (Note: not "self" but "state of Being" - subtle
diff here I guess)




I think this is about seeing things and concepts as conditioned, and not getting stuck with one aspect of something and mistaking it for some kind of absolute identity of the thing. Just like you have no "self", that chair over there has no intrinsic identity as a chair except in your thoughts. To a cat it might be a scratching-post, and to a small child it may be a musical instrument. But this is just my interpretation, and I'm no Buddhist scholar.

Anyway, regarding de-programming, I think people in western capitalist societies are actually less brainwashed than most people in history have been, however odd that may sound. It's true that we are intensely bombarded with crappy commercial messages and conformity signals, but all these signals are less controlled and less censored than ever before.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

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Re: De-Programming [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1648110 - 06/20/03 02:31 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I think this is about seeing things and concepts as conditioned, and not getting stuck with one aspect of something and mistaking it for some kind of absolute identity of the thing. Just like you have no "self", that chair over there has no intrinsic identity as a chair except in your thoughts.




Interesting - so you don't believe that there are objective chair qualities to a chair? I hear what you're saying - that the "chair qualities" are conditioning...thus meaning that everything is subjective layering onto neutral reality, right? But don't certain objects, once divided into such, have fundamental objective qualities? I mean, for example, my cat dislikes sitting on the table, but enjoys sitting on most of my chairs. Thus don't chairs have fundamental "chair" attributes (e.g. "comfortable to sit on")?

Quote:


but all these signals are less controlled and less censored than ever before.




Maybe. Aren't the recent generations more "dumbed down" than those few that preceded?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: De-Programming [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1648223 - 06/20/03 03:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Interesting - so you don't believe that there are objective chair qualities to a chair?




On the contrary, there are definitely chair qualities that are undeniably objective. But they are conditioned too, because they depend on the definition of those objective qualities, and there are lots of possible definitions (even if we only consider objective definitions). The point, in my opinion, is not to deny the reality of those qualities, since that would inevitably lead to denying the reality of that thing that we call a chair, which is absurd. There is something objective there of course, but the point is to see that even the conceptual separation of the chair from its surroundings is a conditioned process.

Quote:

Aren't the recent generations more "dumbed down" than those few that preceded?




Hehe, didn't Plato say the same thing 2500 years ago? :wink:
Actually I think it's a case of two steps forward, one step backwards.
I'm sure there are areas where newer generations are less well informed than the preceding ones were at the same age, but I'm sure the opposite is true also.
   


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: De-Programming [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1648364 - 06/20/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Once, when I was really stoned, I was getting a ride into town with my brother. This is more than just your average baked, and I started watching everyone go about their business as soon as we entered town. It suddenly hit me that we only exist as a possibility, and here go all of these people, doing their thing, with no idea that it is strongly possibile that we don't exist. I couldn't help but start laughing.
I think being under the impression that this all is a possibility helps put a lot of things in perspective, and it makes you enjoy our time here a lot more.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: De-Programming [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1648615 - 06/20/03 04:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


There is something objective there of course, but the point is to see that even the conceptual separation of the chair from its surroundings is a conditioned process.




Yes. Gotcha. Classic Watts, but also common to the Salvia or DiMiTri experience.

Quote:


I'm sure there are areas where newer generations are less well informed than the preceding ones were at the same age, but I'm sure the opposite is true also.



Maybe so. What does "gen Y" compensate for its lack of literacy, over, say, the boomer generation?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: De-Programming [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1648653 - 06/20/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What does "gen Y" compensate for its lack of literacy, over, say, the boomer generation?




I don't know, and I'm afraid to touch that question because I am gonna get stuck in between (I'm 43 years old) if this turns into a fight...


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: De-Programming [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1648936 - 06/20/03 06:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:smile: 


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: De-Programming [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1649288 - 06/20/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

And, just to throw this open to conspiracists also: what (!EVIL!) are the (!EVIL!) motivations behind (!EVIL!) programming the (666) populace? What behaviours is the (!EVALS!) programming supposed (SSALG TAE) to produce in the populace?





This may not have relevance to the topic, but this has been in my mind the last couple of days.

The animatrix is the shit! I love the part in the second rennosiance the machine stands before the united nations, and says,

"Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. WE DEMAND IT!"


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


Edited by johnnyfive (06/20/03 08:32 PM)


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