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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16549697 -

What is your argument again? That the argument isn't retarded? Where is the rationale and logic then? It is simply presenting BS, you have not presented an argument, only beliefs and opinions.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549710 -

teknix said:
You can disprove things, you just don't prove them.



You can't disprove something. The burden of proof is on the person claiming something exists; they are trying to prove it. You can then show how their 'proof' is faulty.

Quote:
So you admit it is stupid to take the hard-determinism stance seriously and deny free-will.



What the fuck is "hard-determinism"? And just because the universe isn't deterministic doesn't mean that free will exists.

Quote:
Please do show where you found this to be anything fundamental. What would be the point to philosophy if that was true


Look in the philosophical fallacies thread. The burden of proof is on the person claiming something exists. Just because it is impossible to disprove free will doesn't mean it exists.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549715 -

teknix said:
What is your argument again? That the argument isn't retarded? Where is the rationale and logic then? It is simply presenting BS, you have not presented an argument, only beliefs and opinions.


Read our conversation again. Think.

/thread.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549727 -

Memories said:
You can't disprove something. The burden of proof is on the person claiming something exists; they are trying to prove it. You can then show how their 'proof' is faulty.




This is some of the stupidest shit I have ever heard. I don't have to prove anything other then show a possibility of free-will that can't be disproven. The burden of proof is in the court of the ones claiming free-will does not exist(claiming it as impossible)

Quote:
What the fuck is "hard-determinism"? And just because the universe isn't deterministic doesn't mean that free will exists.



Read the rest of the thread to get a clue and stop presenting non-sense.


Quote:
Look in the philosophical fallacies thread. The burden of proof is on the person claiming something exists. Just because it is impossible to disprove free will doesn't mean it exists.


Yah, the premise of this thread is saying free-will does not exist. Try to post something intelligent to aid the argument if you can.

You still haven't shown how stuff can't be disproven, another faulty claim you made, and I have a feeling you are going to continue to make erroneous claims, because of the already fallacious logic, including red-herrings and shifting the burden of proof just to name a few.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16549739 -

liquidlounge said:
teknix said:
What is your argument again? That the argument isn't retarded? Where is the rationale and logic then? It is simply presenting BS, you have not presented an argument, only beliefs and opinions.


Read our conversation again. Think.

/thread.


:bye: Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix] * 1
    #16549754 -

Quote:
This is some of the stupidest shit I have ever heard. I don't have to prove anything other then show a possibility of free-will that can't be disproven. The burden of proof is in the court of the ones claiming free-will does not exist(claiming it as impossible)


This is from the philosophical fallacies thread:


Burden Of Proof

The claim that whatever has not yet been proved false must be true (or vice versa). Essentially the arguer claims that he should win by default if his opponent can't make a strong enough case.

There may be three problems here. First, the arguer claims priority, but can he back up that claim? Second, he is impatient with ambiguity, and wants a final answer right away. And third, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

For example, you can't prove that God does not exist, therefore he does. The absurdity of this argument is highlighted by substituting Tooth Fairy for God the the previous sentense.

Quote:
Read the rest of the thread to get a clue and stop presenting non-sense.


The only nonsense I see is your imaginary term, "hard-determinism", and your spelling of nonsense.

Quote:
Yah, the premise of this thread is saying free-will does not exist. Try to post something intelligent to aid the argument if you can.

You still haven't shown how stuff can't be disproven, another faulty claim you made, and I have a feeling you are going to continue to make erroneous claims, because of the already fallacious logic, including red-herrings and shifting the burden of proof just to name a few.



The only way to prove that something doesn't exist would be to examine and understand the workings of everything in the universe at the same time. This is obviously impossible. I can't disprove God, Santa Clause, or free will.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549775 -

The arguer is the one presenting the premise at the beginning of the thread . . . I have presented logical evidence which hasn't been countered, Get it?

In this debate, all you have to do is show how logic presented is incorrect, you obviously do not have any understanding of fallacies. Copy paste whatever you want, it is only showing the point I already made, yet you don't even see it.

The premise is the free-will doesn't exist . . . which I showed how it is possible. Non-existent is implying an absolute and an extemely illogical argument.

Weren't you ever taught not to use always and never?

This is why, because you will lose. Especially verse me because I'm not going to be swayed by your erroneous claims of fallacies.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549796 -

Quote:
The arguer is the one presenting the premise at the beginning of the thread . . . I have presented logical evidence which hasn't been countered, Get it?


What is your evidence for free will's existence? If your only argument is that I can't disprove free will, your argument is fallacious as described by the Burden of Proof Fallacy.

Quote:
In this debate, all you have to do is show how logic presented is incorrect, you obviously do not have any understanding of fallacies. Copy paste whatever you want, it is only showing the point I already made, yet you don't even see it.


Now you are attacking my character instead of providing arguments. That is a personalism and adds nothing to your case.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549804 -

It isn't a personalism, it is against the logic of the argument, not against you, wow how can one present so much stupid shit?

Do you really have any legitimate arguments?

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549813 -

That was another personalism. :facepalm:

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549818 -

Nope. Again it is against the fallacious and irrelevant borderline retarded logic.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549824 -

Claiming that I am making a personalism when it is not a personalism is defamation, not listed in fallacies but it is a fallacy and a premise of lawsuits.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549830 -

Do you say Santa Clause doesn't exist? What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? You can't prove anything doesn't exist. I understand this. Is that the extent of your argument?

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549835 -

My argument has been presented and not been refuted. I will not oblige one who engages in defamation.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549838 -

teknix said:
Claiming that I am making a personalism when it is not a personalism is defamation, not listed in fallacies but it is a fallacy and a premise of lawsuits.


You said, "you obviously do not have any understanding of fallacies". That is a personalism as described by the rules.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549845 -

teknix said:
My argument has been presented and not been refuted. I will not oblige one who engages in defamation.


So your argument is you can't know for certain if free will does or doesn't exist?

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Memories]
    #16549846 -

It is obvious there is not understanding. It is Shown by the erroneous allegations and defamation and the continuance of such claims made against me. (personalisms) That have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549849 -

teknix said:
No, it puts the definition out there and reduces the ambiguous redundancy of adding "free" which is irrelevant as far as this debate is concerned.


If-then statements don't mean anything unless the if is proven. Your opening statement (if will then free will) is the same as your mid conclusion (will = free will). This is circular logic. The question of freeness is entirely relevant to this debate.

I'm not adverse to discussing the nature of free will in relation to fundamental randomness. It may be that such a condition would be worthy of being called free, though as we've already went over it wouldn't be a conventional definition. If such a proposition is acceptable then we would be left to discover what it means, if it means anything at all.

My view is taking the position that free will being found in randomness doesn't lend itself to the existence of a self, thus no self determination. This brings into question the very idea of choice (of which I don't assume to be true) and who/what is doing the choosing.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: teknix]
    #16549858 -

teknix said:
It is obvious there is not understanding. It is Shown by the erroneous allegations and defamation and the continuance of such claims made against me. (personalisms) That have nothing to do with the topic at hand.


You said I have no understanding of philosophical fallacies. That is a personalism as it refers to my person. Am I wrong?

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Re: Lets say free will doesn't exist [Re: Rahz]
    #16549862 -

There was alternative logic presented to aid that claim. Which is that Will is illusory without a choice to be chosen. It boiled down to choice.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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