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InvisibleEgo Death
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Should we take shrooms?
    #1633482 - 06/14/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Guys,
I'm just recovering from what was supposd to be a tester of my latest Cubes 12 Grams fresh.  Technically a level 1 but I was experiencing effects from all the levels at times.

I've tripped b4 & considered my self 2 B experienced, I was also in a particularly good mood this day, my 2 good psychonaut buddies came with me and our setting was very more comfatable than most my trips!

My prob is I felt extremly uncomfortable at several points and I realised shrooms are an amplified rollercoaster of emotion, whatever thought arises can turn into some huge delusion!  The drug is a defense mechansism and psilocybin is not supposed to be eaten by any humans.

Don't get me wrong I have experienced ego loss (with salvia and shroomz) but I also realise a human, which is equal to beasts, requires an ego to exist on this planet.

I got a strong sense that humans are not supposed to experience ego loss because it can send you crazy when your ego returns.  The euphoric feeling that comes after is simply one delusion being expanded which is consistantly how the shroom effects the brain.

I didn't wanna say this but I now beleive all drugs are bad because they are protection for the plant even if on some level the plant is making itself addictive so we propagate it, the drug was still produced to give a negative effect to the consumer.

Some of you guys may think you've reached a higher level of concousness but the very fact you tried to reach it by a "desire" to alter your state of mind means you have not! :shocked:

I don't know why I worked all this out but if mushrooms are teachers then this is what they taught me, to flip my whole view, because buddism is crap and drugs are poisens!

Soz guys :confused:


--------------------


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633509 - 06/14/03 06:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I know what you mean. I think that even if this is true, drugs are poisons, that there can still be an epiphany to be found on them. there could be something particular about the mindfuck of shrooms that makes this life affirming revelation possible, like you have to poison youself so much to realize not to poison yourself.

in this view most forms of bhuddism would be "crap", but not zen cause they're all about the world and not freaking out and whatnot.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineBrugman
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633527 - 06/14/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That's your opinion, not the truth :smile:
Seems you need some more ego-loss. hehe.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633543 - 06/14/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Some of you guys may think you've reached a higher level of concousness but the very fact you tried to reach it by a "desire" to alter your state of mind means you have not!

quite the assumption there..     


I agree with you that the ego (or whatever you want to call it) is not something one should try and demolish... It should be respected.

but Please don't start in with what 'humans should and shouldn't do'...  :confused:

stick with what works for you.. it sounds like you've found some strong positive direction after that last trip of yours.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Brugman]
    #1633545 - 06/14/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, dano... I think we've all entertained this notion at one point or another.

The way I see it, poisons physically and permanently alter your body's chemistry in a negative way. If one experiences such a negative alteration, then maybe such a person shouldn't mess with entheogens.

I see entheogens as obstacle courses for the mind.
Some minds aren't able to handle the course (for whatever reason- I'm not implying any sort of weakness here) and some are. For me, the experience itself isn't the goal... the goal is to gain something positive from the experience.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1633547 - 06/14/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

wise words, sclorcho! :smile:


--------------------
Namaste.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633562 - 06/14/03 07:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

All those thoughts are probably just tricks that your ego is playing to stop you from killing it :wink:

Ego death is not an end in itself, it's more like a solar eclipse that allows you to see the stars and the greater picture. It's true that the ego is required for a human being to function, but it is possible to be rid of the ego attachments and the dictatorship of the ego. This is tremendously liberating, when you are ready for it.

And maybe plant drugs were evolved in order to produce negative effects in some animals, so what? If we can choose among them and use them in positive ways, then they have this purpose also. I can't help but appreciate a drug that can show me in 45 minutes something that would otherwise take years of meditation to realize. Sure, there are side effects and even dangers associated with the use of psilocybin, but we already knew that. These are problems that can be managed.
 


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1633611 - 06/14/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

do what you want buddy


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633670 - 06/14/03 08:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1633843 - 06/14/03 10:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

should we sit around and do nothing?

should we contribute to this corporate orgy?

should we even be alive?

should we be spending so much money on figuring out how to make even larger explosions?

We've already made enough mistakes as a species on this planet - I don't think eating a fungus and tripping out for a few hours really pushes us over any edges


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1633870 - 06/14/03 10:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

ever look at, and say, a word long enough to where you start to think the word is absolutely ridiculous, and even question the purpose of its existence?

for me, "should" is one of those words.


Edited by Clean (06/14/03 10:54 PM)


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Clean]
    #1633891 - 06/14/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hehe.. I really like what Clean just said :smile:

Shoud.  That's a very strong word.  What you should do and what I should do are almost always going to be completely different things.  We all have filters that lead us to moralistic and fatalistic decisions and rationalizations about our actions and behaviours and how they fit into the world around us. (Sorry about the grammar of that last sentence...)

For this reason, we all determine what actions and behaviours are right for us - and regardless of what anyone else thinks, when we make a decision - any decision - it is the right decision for us at that time, as defined by our filters.

So to attempt to determine what another person should do by using your own personal filters to make that determination is, at best, unfair.  At worst?  Unbelievably short sighted and hipocrical.

<quote>
Some of you guys may think you've reached a higher level of concousness but the very fact you tried to reach it by a "desire" to alter your state of mind means you have not!
</quote>

I also take issue with this.  And it reminds me of a chinese proverb:

Chang Tzu and a friend were walking along a steam one afternoon.  Chang Tzu looked into the stream and excalimed, "Look at those fish!  See how they play?  They are having such a great time!"

His friend looked at him and said, "You are not those fish!  How do you know that they are frolicking and having a great time?"

Chang Tzu looked at his friend and said, "You are not me.  How do you know that I do not know that they are frolicking and having a great time?"

Be careful what you assume, my friend.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1633904 - 06/14/03 11:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

right on, guys - that's what I was getting at - the word "Should" implies a sort of unaviodable subjectivity.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1634156 - 06/15/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i dont think shrooms fit the bill as "toxic" or "poisonous" any more than oxygen would. after all, more people die of chronic oxygen poisoning than shrooms.
and oxygen is WAY more addictive. you crave it like its your last breath.


--------------------


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1634173 - 06/15/03 01:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1634318 - 06/15/03 03:01 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i dont think shrooms fit the bill as "toxic" or "poisonous"

Must we go over this again?

Webster:

poison: A substance that causes illness, especially by chemical means.


Is psilocybin a chemical? Yes.

Does it sometimes cause vomiting, disorientation, shakes, hot and cold flashes, paranoia, temporary pyschosis? Yes.

Do people ever go to the hospital after ingestion? Yes.

Those are symptoms of illness or toxicity no matter how loudly you protest otherwise.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineshr00m
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634404 - 06/15/03 03:36 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

without experiencing bad (eating shrooms?) would we have good?


--------------------
the only constant is change~ life goes on. so theres no point in staying back because you can always catch up. try,hope, and understand!


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634459 - 06/15/03 03:55 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i diddnt ask you to go over it. but you are entitlied to your oppinion. I dont recall protesting loudly to psilocybin being considered toxic, but i beleive youve prooved my point, that oxygen is a poison, worse than mushrooms, far more dangerous. and just for arguments sake, NO, psilocybnin does not cause the vommiting, the inedible mushroom tissue and flavour does that. and symptoms cannot be considered "poisoning" if they are a disired state, if anything, one might argue that the improved mental condidition is better and LACK of psilocybin is poison if i were to use the greatly scientific mycological reference "websters"
people go to the hospital for alot of things, one might argue tht illness (as you put it) is not cause by psylocybin, but rather simply made less tolerated, tolerable and hidden.

and people do to the hospital for hyperventhilation.
thats an overdose of oxygen.

i was arguing one cant assume mushrooms are wrong because they are toxic, that would be paranoia, using the same websters logic, evrything is poison, even thoughts, sounds, smells, etc. cause anything has the potential to trigger mental illness or nausea in someone...


--------------------


Edited by Mitchnast (06/15/03 03:56 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634483 - 06/15/03 04:14 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Ooo Ooo... Sclorch and Swami disagree!!
Let's see what happens....
_________________________________

Must we go over this again?
Webster:
poison: A substance that causes illness, especially by chemical means.

Is psilocybin a chemical? Yes.
Does it sometimes cause vomiting, disorientation, shakes, hot and cold flashes, paranoia, temporary pyschosis? Yes.
Do people ever go to the hospital after ingestion? Yes.
Those are symptoms of illness or toxicity no matter how loudly you protest otherwise.

 
1. I have experienced "vomiting, disorientation, shakes, hot and cold flashes, paranoia, and temporary pyschosis" due to my ingestion of psilocybin, but please note the bolded word as it applies to all those maladies. :wink:
2. I've never actually known (or been) someone who has gone to the hospital after ingesting psilocybin mushrooms, though I believe it is possible.
3. Many drugs (prescription, OTC, or illegal) have undesireable side effects.  I suppose it's a question of how the (possible) intended effects weigh out against the (possible) side effects. 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634495 - 06/15/03 04:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Using the sclorch refined definition, then rattlesnake poison is not really a poison if you recover.

Sorry bro, permanency and death are not required for a substance to be toxic.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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