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shroom induced miracles?
    #489189 -

has anyone experienced anything "scientifically impossible" while on mushrooms or watching someone on mushrooms? here's mine, not a very good example though, my ability to climb trees is astounding, i can just run up a tree with or without branches in no time at all. i think of this as not something that is impossible just that i have more confidence in my abilities while on mushrooms.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #489604 -

I have had other, more weird things like a computer crashing, then the tv not working properly and the cd player getting stu,k all happend in a few minutes, at the beginning of the trip.
Also some shit like a knife falling from a wall, that was hangin their. And some other stuff...


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its all placebo

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #489690 -

one time my friend was doing shrooms and he had this vision of a car accident.... what the car looked like, who was going to be in it, who was driving, etc. well, about a month later he and some friends were going somewhere... and it was exactly like his vision. he insisted that another person drive, and there was no accident. very weird. makes you wonder...

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: lissa]
    #489721 -

Here lissa presents us with a new twist: a prediction that didn't come true as evidence of mysterious forces.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #489727 -

I have had other, more weird things like a computer crashing...
Blame Bill Gates and his money machine, not psilocybin. My computer crashes about twice per day while NOT tripping.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #489763 -

I'd advise you to get some more RAM, that usually fixes the problem.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #489778 -

3 yahtzee's in a row (all 6's) on another substance.. coincidence? does anybody know if there where parapsychological studies in this area. I know a a study with significant higher results with psylocybin on the ganzfeld experiment.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: alphatrion]
    #489991 -

3 yahtzee's in a row (all 6's) on another substance.. coincidence?

Coincidence with what? Did you say to your friends BEFORE you rolled "Hey, watch me roll 3 Yahtzees of all sixes in a row?" If not, then that particular combination has no more significance than any other 3 groupings of numbers.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #490622 -

I agree swami this is hardly scientific evidence, you try to put things in perspective. BUT it has to me MORE significance than other groupings, because the aim for me at that time was "a yahtzee" with 3 sixes - that is also the fun of playing yahtzee. But it was rather implicit and i didn't tell it to my friends - does this matter to me? No. I never had 3x3 sixes in a row while aiming for them except on this occasion in an altered state. I consider it strange and mysterious but not real evidence, more research for me is waranted. Keep in mind that 'miracles' are also something the bemiracled experiences as a miracle regardless of the fact if it objectively IS a miracle. Miracles do exist.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #490699 -

I have had other, more weird things like a computer crashing...
Blame Bill Gates and his money machine, not psilocybin. My computer crashes about twice per day while NOT tripping.

read the whole sentence: like a computer crashing, then the tv not working properly and the cd player getting stuk all happend in a few minutes,
And also, the computer got stuk just when we were getting a bit sic of the game, just at the right moment
But it could have been coincendence, yes.


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its all placebo

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #490720 -

One of my favorite shroomed experiences.

I was tripping in the wee hours of the morning with 3 others. I was squatted over some silica containing rocks checking their sparkle out. One of my friends was tossing pebbles at me. I didn't turn around I just kept tripping on the rocks. Finally I picked up my own rock. I heard the others yell "He's got a rock!" I heard one freind exclaim "You better not hit me mother-fucker!" I thought he was the one throwing the rocks at me. By now they had all ran behind some short alder trees. I zoomed in on my freind who had last shouted the MF phrase. I tossed the rock over the trees in his direction. After a few seconds of silent loft I heard a thud. I then heard my freind go bizzerk and saw him running at me. The rest is history.

Another

While explaining the strange properties of mushroom inhebration to my girlfreind I challenged her to a test. Pick a color. She did. I thought and said the first color in my mind, "Red". I was correct. "Another" I said. "Blue", I was right again. "One more." I encouraged her. I thought and saw two colors so I said them both "green/grey". Right again!

That defies probability, instead of thinking of one color like I had suggested, she changed the rules and I was able to keep up. I don't always have such abilities I'm sure. At the time however I didn't doubt them.


Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: alphatrion]
    #490756 -

BUT it has to me MORE significance than other groupings,

Yes, you have assigned it significance, but has none in and of itself.

Years ago I wrote what was then the strongest backgammon program. I got literally hundreds of letters on how the dice were cooked in favor of the program, though I had spent 6 months working on an impartial randomizer. My point is : the human brain is designed for pattern recognition and sees it when there is none.

Someone commented on backgammon game when one player rolled 66 3 times in a row, "Wow! That is a 1/46656 (1/(36*36*36) shot." When I asked why he did not comment on the previous 4 rolls of 54, 61, 53, 32 - he looked at me like I was retarded. I stated that the odds of rolling that 4 roll combination was even less likely at 1/104976 (1/(18*18*18*18)).

Commenting on some perceived pattern after the fact is meaningless. If you can consistenetly make such a pattern appear then you are most certainly on to something.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #490764 -

read the whole sentence: like a computer crashing, then the tv not working properly and the cd player getting stuk all happend in a few minutes,

I DID read the whole sentence. Part A happens frequently so that it is meaningless. I cannot comment on the state of your TV and CD player, nor whether the voltage coming into your house is low or surging or has excessive spikes, all of which could cause such disruption.

Then you state that they happened withing a few minutes of each other. So what? Why not simultaneously, why not within a few hours of each other?

You assign meaning to some non-related events in some arbitrary time-line and offer it as what? Evidence that your brain on mushrooms can effect electricity? This would be so easy to test for with an oscilloscope.

Seem people here would rather swap stories than test their hypothesis. Perhaps you are different and will try it and post your results.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #490906 -

man that is such a good point! I have certainly never thought of it in that way but you are absolutely right.....

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #490908 -

i'm talking about the dice/backgammon thing.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Joshua]
    #490989 -

That defies probability, instead of thinking of one color like I had suggested, she changed the rules and I was able to keep up. I don't always have such abilities I'm sure. At the time however I didn't doubt them.

It doesn't defy probability as you have not commented on the times when your abilities were not functioning.

If you don't always have such power, then how do you know that it was working at that time?

Let me get this straight: When you choose correctly, your paranormal prowess is functioning, and when you don't choose correctly, your psychic abilities are not functioning.

Sounds suspiciously like normal guessing to me.

I would be happy to put a large wager against your color guessing abilities.




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #491073 -

Since many years, I grow my own Cubensis. Most time I trip, I go to a special place in the hills or elsewhere out in the green. Allways, when I come home after a mushroom-session, the shrooms in my growcase have grown much taller than they normaly do in the same time. If there are tiny pinhead primordias in a jar when I leave at 8 pm, when I come home at 4 am or so, I can harvest them full grown. Normaly this process takes two or three days.
I believe that I get somehow related with the mycel when I eat its fruits.
Like rivers, our consciousness entwines.


--------------------
Remain in Light
Greez Ini

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Ini]
    #491082 -

THIS I like. I am getting all of the points made about probability and the Chaos involved in all things. Still, I find this particular statement very comforting; "I believe that I get somehow related with the mycel when I eat its fruits.
Like rivers, our consciousness entwines." I absolutely believe it is possible that you DO affect the mycelial growth of your plants as well as helping them to fruit in a shorter period of time...much like my talking to (and smoking pot with) trees helps them to feel happier and grow both larger and fuller.


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"Pain for pleasure; pain for adoration; pain is to godliness; bleeding for ecstasy...Divine Pain."
-Morbid Angel

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #491285 -

This example of my experience with my girlfreind is the only time that I have ever thought my psychic powers to work before I challenged them. I understand your spiel on randomness and I absolutely agree.

You said "Coincidence with what? Did you say to your friends BEFORE you rolled "Hey, watch me roll 3 Yahtzees of all sixes in a row?" If not, then that particular combination has no more significance than any other 3 groupings of numbers.

The non-random significance of this episode was the fact that I predesignated the psychic occurance and that I broke the rules established to keep with my psychic accuracy.

It is a random occurance that I was able to accomplish this feat. But the odds are very-very high. I would not know how to calculate them.

eg. Probability of choosing a primary color * Probability of choosing a primary color * probability of breaking confines and choosing a secondary color and a non-color shade?

I'm sure the first two functions would be easy enough, but the third is all but nearly impossible to calculate.

Joshua

P.S. The rock hit my freind square in the middle of his chest, a welt was present to prove it.


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (12/14/01 05:42 PM)

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Joshua]
    #491363 -

Well. mine is somewhat related through the use of MDMA/Mush + Chants. To date, I've done 21+ chants, which gives me a good assessment on how well the effect will achieve itself. The chants are suppose to give the recipient a big blast of bliss. From my recollection:

1 person was taken instantly out of a bad trip on E
4 had bliss or nirvana or visions, or combination
1 person getting OBE
9 felt samatha lasting minutes to weeks.

1 person rebuked it the first time, second time - he felt sensitized to the crowd's vibes (raves).

3 didn't feel anything. I distinctly remember these 3 who tolde me there were Christians.

3 didn't feel anything. (2 were too stoned, 1 said she was too introverted to hear it properly)

That's the gist of it. The effect is depdendent on the recipient, as the sender is the other important variable.

If I understand MTG correctly, the Chakras (heart and throat) are activated by MDMA..


KtP
ArCh

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Ini]
    #491401 -

Allways, when I come home after a mushroom-session, the shrooms in my growcase have grown much taller... I believe that I get somehow related with the mycel when I eat its fruits.

Your post speaks of repeatability, therefore your hypothesis is very easily testable. Why not document your procedures and specific measurements for all to see.

Unless you are a rare individual, I will get the standard responses. Either

A. I know it to be true, therefore do not need to test.

B. I don't really want to test this, because I may find out that I have deceived myself and there is no magic.

C. Sounds like a good idea, but I am too lazy to take the time to document my observations in a precise manner.

Really hoping for:

D. I will do it and share my test results whether positive or negative.

If you need help, myself and others can construct an unbiased test.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #491410 -

The chants are suppose to give the recipient a big blast of bliss.

Read my previous post. If there is such an affect, it could be tested for.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #491415 -

Why the need to test everything?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #491429 -

Why the need to test everything?

Surely, you are joking! Humans are known to make frequent & egregious perceptual errors. Without the testing of hypothesis, there would be no buildings, technology, clothing, music, writngs, electricity, etc.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if just one these magical claims could be shown without a doubt to be true to an impartial observer?

You will give me a big smokescreen as per usual on the evils of validation, but bottom line - you are afraid of having your false reality ripped away from you.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #491442 -

No need to get flustered! I was asking an honest question.
It would indeed be wonderful to have such magical claims shown to an impartial observer to be true. But I think that some people don't feel the need to validate their experiences to others just to be right. Of course there are many people who would jump on such an opportunity, myself being one of them.
If such a test could be devised to test such metaphysical and spiritual claims in an unbiased manner, I would surely be interested in seeing it and even participating in it. Perhaps you can come up with a test and present it to everyone.
As for your last sentence, my reality is not false, and even if it were.. I think the only judge of that would be me.

Anyways, its my best friend's birthday... so I'm going to drift away in the smokescreen that is my false reality and share some fun times with him.

I look forward to hearing your (non-malicious) reply. Really.. I have no qualms with you Swami...I am genuinely interested. Forget the bullshit of the past and let us start anew with a clean slate.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #491444 -

the truth will stand up to any amount of testing.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: mr crisper]
    #491737 -

man, some of you must lead some stressful lives


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-----------------------
D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #491913 -

You sound like Christian R?tsch :-) (You know who he is?)

It doesn' t matter to me if you or somebody else believes what I wrote here. For me, it was each time an experience that touched me deep. I took it as a kind of agreement for keeping the mycel in my house and eating its fruits. I don't think everithing miraculous that happens needs to be tested. But next time I trip, I will take pictures with my digicam and put it in this forum. This could take a little time, because normaly I do no sessions in winter. But you will get the pics, promissed!


while history and sience
rewrite themselves each day
some are still living
in the days of wonder


--------------------
Remain in Light
Greez Ini

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #492203 -

BWAHAHAHA!! A fanatic who won't change the subject nor his mind..

My intention of the chants had zippo do with proofs and validation. So whether it can be duplicated in a controlled environment is not my friggin objective. It never was. Get it through your head, Mr. Vulcan. That question you are posing is ridiculous logic because you damn well enough it won't stand up to scientific scrutiny.. It was never my intention to convey my experiences as some all-permeating reality

This is too funny.. I must laugh again..

BWAHAHAHAH!!


KtP
ArCh

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #494274 -

Swami:
Coincidence with what? Did you say to your friends BEFORE you rolled "Hey, watch me roll 3 Yahtzees of all sixes in a row?" If not, then that particular combination has no more significance than any other 3 groupings of numbers.


Actually, it would be like rolling 18 dice, and all being 6's seeing as it happend 3 times. He in theory rolled htem 18 times and got 6's every time. The fact that it is 6, and not any other number also means somethign as 6 is the highest number, and the most valueble in the game. HOWEVER. 6 is usually rolled more. Opposite the number 6 on a dice, there is the number 1. On dice they have half circle holes in them with clack dots mean matter is taken away. The lightest side is the dice is 6. And the heaviest side of the dice is 1. 1 is bottom, 6 is top.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: tak]
    #494321 -

i have another miracle! when i consume shrooms i get the feeling that if i just walked away from "civilization" into the forest, and everything would be allright...

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #494881 -

     
:heart: such words I' ve longtimes missed...

You found the real miracle, man!

"chant for Theo"
lay a smile upon my eyes
serenity upon my soul
let what I love
be save from harm
inebriate me good, tonite





--------------------
Remain in Light
Greez Ini

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: tak]
    #497576 -

Tak: Excellent point. I am really enjoying your analytical way of viewing things. Logic will always prevail if we allow it to do so.


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"Pain for pleasure; pain for adoration; pain is to godliness; bleeding for ecstasy...Divine Pain."
-Morbid Angel

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #497580 -

YouInfoIt, you just became my new best friend....lol. I have always longed to return to nature. At one time I got as far as being 18 hours away from leaving on this quest and beginning my trip North. My partner in the venture cancelled on me at the last minute, and I was so shocked (since it had been 3 solid weeks preperation and months of planning) that I missed my date to depart. Afterward it somehow felt wrong to leave...I blame him every day for helping me to miss my gateway. Perhaps in the future I will have another chance....*sigh*


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"Pain for pleasure; pain for adoration; pain is to godliness; bleeding for ecstasy...Divine Pain."
-Morbid Angel

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They're not miracles [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #497773 -

I believe there are great portions of our brains we never access, because of our own psychological inablility to deal with them. When you take a drug, you open your mind, let go of fear. It's very possible that a sort of telekenesis, which we aren't experienced enough to control, shows itself in small ways.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #498503 -

Well I don't now if they are miracles but they are definitely enhancements.
I get what I call night vision, I can see no problem even in the darkest night, and yes my dog obeys me like a trained dog (that?s a miracle) in normal state he never obeys me. (Maybe my voice tone changes or I have become more emphatic with the animal)
And I had telepathic experiences also.


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Re: They're not miracles [Re: Angelina]
    #498751 -

It's possible that it could be latent in the DNA -> Genes, not necessarity the brain.


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DNA or BRAIN ????? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #504668 -

"It's possible that it could be latent in the DNA -> Genes, not necessarity the brain"

Could you please explain more precisely what you mean ?


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #504724 -

Lobo, my animals are very obedient when i'm on shrooms as well. I think it has to do with vibrations. My vibrations roll like thunder when i'm on shrooms. I'm very in control of my soul and it's power. Keep that in mind next time. And by the way humans are very obedient to me when i'm on them as well. I went to a party one time to test it out and it was like I was a superstar. All these girls were looking at me like they I was a god, and coming up to me and talking to me(this isn't usually the case). I probably could have had sex with any of them, but at the time they all seemed not worth my time. They were drinking, and so they're brains were dull and uninteresting to me.


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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Things To Come - Come Alive


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: tak]
    #504938 -

Bottom line is that the crap tables in Las Vegas and elsewhere average what the odds tell them to expect. The real world is a great place to experiment and if telekinesis existed then the casinos would remove this game as they would quickly start losing money.

To reiterate: a grouping of numbers is only significant if it can be repeated ro predicted. We have no idea of the number of Yahtzee players who haved played a lifetime without rolling 3 Yahtzees of all sixes. As it is a possibility to roll this sequence, one would expect it to happen sometime.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #504951 -

I get what I call night vision, I can see no problem even in the darkest night,
This is due to extreme pupil dilation, not quite as large as with a cat or an owl, but extreme for a human. While it is definitely an interesting affect, it is purely physiological.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #504968 -

BWAHAHAHA!! A fanatic who won't change the subject nor his mind..
A fanatic about what? Look up the defintion of the word as it seems that you do not fully understand it's meaning.

My intention of the chants had zippo do with proofs and validation.
Supposedly it had to do with shroom induced miracles. When someone states (you did not) that every time I do shrooms I can create a certain effect, then that hypothesis may be easily tested. If it was validated that could very well change the outlook of the whole human race and perhaps win a Nobel Prize in psychology in the process. Perhaps even lead to *gasp* legalization.

Easier to rail on Swami as the party-basher and go chill out on the couch with some bud; than help the rest of us materialists understand the mysteries of the universe.




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #504996 -

Wow, I agree with Swami...
So basically, you desire the tests in order for us to prove our claims to the scientific community, which would ultimately..bring the two sides together?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #505035 -

Wow, I agree with Swami...
What the..? A miracle has occurred! Start up the band.

So basically, you desire the tests in order for us to prove our claims to the scientific community, which would ultimately..bring the two sides together?
Yes. Understanding equals progress. In the early days of plague and disease there were many hypotheses on the cause. If none of them underwent testing, where would we be today?

Science is not against unusual phenomenon, but will not accept heresay evidence as proof. If one person could show that a brain in mushroom consciousness is more than a disrupted neuronal process, think what that would mean to the whole world. It would show once and for all that there are latent powers of mind that could be harnessed.

One cool experiment would be to have a webcam focused on a small sliver of perfectly balanced metal on a pivot under air-tight glass, like a compass only non-magnetized, and on or part of a firm stable structure and see if anyone could move it. A clock with date and time would also be visible for reference. There could be trip wires set on either side of the needle a few mm away that would conduct electricity and send a signal if it moved even the tiniest amount. Preferrably it would be set up in an area devoid of earthquakes ( I live south of LA) and away from heavy traffic (trucks rumbling by can vibrate my apartment) so my location is not good to host this experiment.

This would be an unbiased and valid test. Do you think anyone could move it? Perhaps you have a simpler experiment to propose. Tell me what you think you can do that is generally considered impossible.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #505273 -

I like that experiment. I would participate in it. I have actually been able to make a compass hand spin very rapidly on several occassions, as to whether I could do it on a regular basis...perhaps.
But I am reminded of Uri Geller who was able to bend metal spoons that were protected in plastic tubes. In another test a die was thrown out of his view and he was asked to state the number that landed. He got it right 8 times out of 8. In yet another test he was shown a series of metal containers, and was to choose which ones were empty. He got that right 12 times out of 14.
Still, results were "inconclusive" and many people claimed him a fraud.
Or there is Nina Kulagina, who was able to demonstrate psychokinesis to Dr. Zdeneck Rejdak on several occasions. She said that psychokinesis is responsible for "poltergeist activity".

Anyways, I would love to see an unbiased, conclusive test done.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #505280 -

Also, I can turn off TVs and various electrical equipment sometimes when I am in a room. It depends on my mood really, but in the past have been able to make lights flicker as I walk down a hallway, or turn off and on TVs and radios and such just by coming near them. I've also broken my lamp using psychokenesis before. How could this be proven?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #505340 -

I like that experiment. I would participate in it. I have actually been able to make a compass hand spin very rapidly on several occassions, as to whether I could do it on a regular basis...perhaps.

Could you do that at a distance?

That is the beauty of this experiment: one would not need to move it regulary to show validity.

A log could be kept to see who was at the site at the time along with a videotape of the clock and apparatus. Probably two such devices should be kept side by side to negate the possiblity of external vibration. The goal would be to move only one specific needle.

The host should clearly be a skeptic. Despite the concerns of "believers" a true skeptic would not bury positive results to prove someone wrong. Skeptics want to find some magic as much as anyone, we just need more than a story as evidence.

BTW, here is site that tests for psi power: http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #505430 -

what exactly are you trying to prove by doing this, that there is magic in mushrooms, either way i wish you all the best


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If I didn't have such a great drive (golf) the American people would thing I wasn't working so hard. George W. Bush

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: hairs]
    #505728 -

what exactly are you trying to prove by doing this, that there is magic in mushrooms
Have you never asked yourself when under the influence of shrooms and something weird happened,"Did I just imagine / hallucinate that or would a sober bystander have witnessed the same thing? Basically, did I alter consensus reality or just my personal reality?"


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #506073 -

i have had those thoughts, although not while on shrooms, on acid, and it wasnt something that wasnt there, it just fels like that everything you do or see while tripping has much more significance, and a sober person wouldnt even notice, and if they did, they wouldnt care


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If I didn't have such a great drive (golf) the American people would thing I wasn't working so hard. George W. Bush

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #506540 -

Yes I came to the same conclusion that the "night Vision" is due to pupil dilation.
Swami I was wondering if you had any experience that you may call paranormal or what ever you want to call it under the influence of the shrooms?


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #506547 -

I am intrested in trying the chants.
Can you tell me what type of chants you used?


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Learyfan]
    #506562 -

Good observation, that had also happen to me and I can tell you that I felt that woman were more intrested in me I call that the "James Bond" effect and it works!
Vibrations could be but also I think is because I lost the fake personality under the influence of the shrooms and I transmitt a self confidence that I don't have in a normal state (again the fake personality) I lose all fear and people must fell those vibrations and I am just me.


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #507114 -

Swami I was wondering if you had any experience that you may call paranormal or what ever you want to call it under the influence of the shrooms?

I have had many seemingly paranormal experiences both sober and while tripping; hence my interest. But unlike many, I do not trust my own cultural filters and biases, which is why I am so demanding about objective experimental validation.

I will give two examples:

1. (Not tripping) My girlfriend was extremely agitated during a lovely weekend at a 5 star hotel. She kept telling me that she had visions of her daughter in a coffin. In 5 years this was the first time that she mentioned anything like that. Her daughter died the next morning from a prescription medicine overdose.

2. (While tripping on LSD) A different girlfriend wanted to be a photo-journalist. She claimed to have "photographer's block". To inspire her, I frequently borrowed her camera though I had no real interest. When I got my pictures back, I would have her critique my work. My photos were awful. One night we tripped together outside. While talking to her and looking in a different direction, I "saw" her framing the apricot orchard in the moonlight in her head as if for a photo. When I turned around the image in my head matched reality exactly. My photographs improved many magnitudes after that moment like a switch turned on. I understood the photographer's eye - a new way of perceiving the world. Actually set up a booth at an art show a few years later to display my unusual work.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #509901 -

I asked you that not because i want "stump swami" but because I respect your opinions in this forum I share a similar line of thoght with you.
I had also several experinces (not drug induce) that defies normal explanation (like " astral proyections") hence my interest in this topic.
-I do not trust my own cultural filters and biases-
I am with you 100% on this one, thats way the path to truth is so difficult some one said is like walking on the edge of a knife.
I have experimented with shrooms only as an adult and only for self exploration perpus since you did LSD i was curios, do think is better than shrooms or is the same (I never tried it) and again only as a tool for self exploration.
Thanks
Sorry for my english ( is my second language)


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: YouInfoIt]
    #510128 -

We seem to have forgotten the point of this forum Now yall are just challenging eachothers claims. Some psykoaktive* drugs create a veiw of possibility in anything. and make people more comfident in themselves. when you believe in yourself that makes it a lot more possible to acheive something previously unacheivable. mabey its just the acid talking i dont know
psyko

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #511316 -

How about closed eyes vision?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #526716 -

i think there are also other drugs that can provide you with very large pupils and still not give night vision... why so?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: raytrace]
    #527162 -

I don't have an answer for you, I just reported my experience.
But I like the effect, and thats the only thing that matters. :smile:


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #528340 -

well yeah it must be cool, i 've never had it myself, but i know of people that did and i just don't think that it is because of pupil dilation, there must be something else going on...

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: raytrace]
    #528364 -

Owls, cats, and trippers have great night vision and giant pupils.

Same thing with a camera. To take pictures in low light, you open the aperature.

Does everything have to have some mystical explanation when a more pedantic one will suffice?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #528511 -

While night vision can be explained away with pupil dilation, closed eye vision can't. Closed eye vision is not when you see something with your eyes closed (how can you, after all they are closed), but it is a state wherein one stays perfectly oriented and capable of doing things with their eyes closed. For instance tying one's shoelaces, walking barefoot on terrain of sharp rocks or in the forest without knocking over trees, etc.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: gribochek]
    #528702 -

Here is another myth that is easily testable. As per usual, I am willing to put up a sizable chunk-o-cash against the reality of closed-eye vision.

What I think happens is that the mind gets imprinted much easier while tripping and takes a snapshot of everything that you see. In other words, one gets a visual "photographic memory" of the scene in front of them and can easily navigate the terrain. This seems totally amazing because we cannot do this very well in normal consciousness. However, blindfold said mystical tripper and take him/her to a new location and he/she will be totally unable to find their way around objects.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #528925 -

Swami first no offence to you, but I feel you are over doing it with being so rational, yes some of this things could have a rational explanation and I am not arguing with that, but is nice to feel that there is some magic out there and we all need a little magic and mystery in our life, in the end what?s important is the experience don't take that away from us and from your self, the middle path man.
Second I had trip in the woods many times in places I was not familiar before, and I can navigate perfectly don't even trip, yet in a normal state I will be fighting against the brush.
Is it because I am more relax, or that I am more sensitive or what ever?
The miracle for me is that I am able to do it, in that moment.

"If the string is to tight it may snap, if to lose will not play"
A master teaching his student how to play the sitar.


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #528949 -

Swami first no offence to you, but I feel you are over doing it with being so rational... the middle path man.

Sorry you feel that I steal the magic. But it's people charging $3.99 a minute for the psychic hotline, the televangelists, the astrologists, the "I can communicate with your dead loved ones" cold readers (Van Prague, Edward, et al), and all the others that prey on people's weaknesss and gullibility that are the thieves.

As to the existence of some of the phenomena listed here, there is no middle ground. It is not like making a compromise. They either do or do not exist.

Yes, some people are disillusioned when I break the spell. Is that so bad - to remove an illusion? Or on the other hand - to show me once and for all the error of my rationalist ways? To date, no one has taken me up on any challenge (except for shroomism and the $20,000 bet of which I will not see a penny- even if he is wrong). Seems no one really believes in what they say.

There is plenty of everyday magic such as our very existence to fill our world.

Remember that you are free to skip over my posts if they disturb you.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529015 -

The only illusion is that of the spell of materialism.
I have not forgotten our bet.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #529165 -

It is not the remembering that I am concerned about, but the honoring...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529176 -

Of course I will honor it...if I am wrong

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529454 -

Far be it from me personally to tell you to leave on the grounds that you are spoiling the illusion for me, for this is one thing you can't possibly do. Notice several things, though.

You are on the grounds where you can't loose. Things you can't refute, you explain. Things you can't explain, you refute. Things you can neither refute nor explain you refute or explain anyway.

But on what grounds do you choose to say what's a scientific hypothesis and what's not? What's a phenomenon and what's a "miracle" or "illusion"? If a brick that fell on your head is explained by a black cat, that's stupid, from your perspective, but when it is explained by a microcrack that was lingering there for two months, that's scientific. And if I ask you to explain why it fell on your head and not mine, then that is explained away by way of an accident. How convenient. Accidents don't need proof or further examination, accidents don't invite further questions, you can't loose. To ensure that you can't loose, to ensure that accident will be your eternal fallback position, you have invented the notion of reproducibility. An event must be reproducible in order to deserve your attention, otherwise it is called an accident and disregarded. (But can a microcrack in a brick that has already fallen be reproduced?) A whole science has been created to disregard miracles by way of accidents, it is called evolutionary biology.

Now you might justly ask me, if I may provide an alternative. In my example of evolution, an alternative to accident would seem to be purpose, or God. If in this dual argument sides are to be assigned, then you will find yourself sitting opposite to Shroomism, who has more in common with you then you will possibly imagine, he is not just your reflection in the mirror, but an exact copy of yourself, down to every little detail except for background. Same stubborn mind pushing on others the crap that you spent so many years investing your ego in. Where you stubbornly say "baloons" he stubbornly sais "aliens!", where you say "accident" he sais "God". Just a change of some keywords would completely transform him into you and you into him. So that's not my alternative. My alternative is to watch, enjoy the ride and take out the garbage in a timely manner. And if I talk to a giant green mantis while tripping, it doesn't matter to me if it is real or imaginary, or whether I can prove anything to you or not.

Yes, you steal the magic from people. In exactly the same way your notorious $3.99 per minute psychic hotlines do. After all "Scientific american" sells for $4.95.

Adios

-- Grib

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: gribochek]
    #529501 -

Far be it from me personally to tell you to leave on the grounds that you are spoiling the illusion for me, for this is one thing you can't possibly do.
Then why even intimate that I should leave? Are you protecting the helpless others from my rational onslaught? I find it funny that no one would think to mention that to someone posting total nonsense. It reminds me of the Amazing Randi's experience in a evangelical tent revival meeting. When he pointed out the the congregation the the preacher was using an old magician's trick to dupe them, Randi and not the preacher was ejected from the site.

If a brick that fell on your head is explained by a black cat, that's stupid, from your perspective, but when it is explained by a microcrack that was lingering there for two months, that's scientific. And if I ask you to explain why it fell on your head and not mine, then that is explained away by way of an accident. How convenient.
Saying something is an "accident" usually means that no more can be said about such an occurence. One survivor's (of the WTC bombing) spouse says "Thank God, my husband is alive!" Another victim's spouse says, "What did I do to deserve this?" Both are trying to find a reason for their fate. My take on this is that it is either purely random as to who lived or died or that the answer is unknowable.

An event must be reproducible in order to deserve your attention, otherwise it is called an accident and disregarded.
An event must be reproducible for the purpose of study and understanding, otherwise it is all conjecture. It is only ignored because no more can be said with any degree of certainty. I lived in Las Vegas for many years. All to frequently I would see someone hit a big jackpot and then asign some meaning to the causation, such as " I always win when Edna stands on my right." or some other superstition.

Yes, you steal the magic from people. In exactly the same way your notorious $3.99 per minute psychic hotlines do. After all "Scientific american" sells for $4.95.
Not even close my friend. I am not trying to con you and reach into your pocket.

Shroomism, who has more in common with you then you will possibly imagine, he is not just your reflection in the mirror, but an exact copy of yourself,
Perhaps, but I am not trying to get people to quit their jobs, sell their homes and move to high ground, only to question things presented before them.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529527 -

Then why even intimate that I should leave?
If that what this sounded like, I apologize. Although, as I have previously suggested, you should leave to protect your prized possession of sanity, you should not leave for anyone else's sake. Those who can be challanged by you, should by all means be challanged by you, those for whom you are entertaining, should not be deprived of it, and those to whom you are annoying deserve to be annoyed.

An event must be reproducible for the purpose of study and understanding, otherwise it is all conjecture.
And then of course, your statement that a UFO observed by John Doe is not an alien spacecraft is different from John Doe's statement that it is indeed an alien spacecraft, because what? You have reproduced, observed and understood the event John Doe has witnessed? How is your explanation of John Doe's experience any better then Shroomism's? Please explain this one to me, I beg you.

Perhaps, but I am not trying to get people to quit their jobs, sell their homes and move to high ground, only to question things presented before them.
Perhaps. Or perhaps you are not trying to save people from imminent danger. Who knows....

Cheers

-- Grib.



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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529622 -

I like how you attach a personal story to everything to prove your point...let me try that...

In a previous life I was sitting by the pond talking to a well renowned scientist. He was stating that all things could be explained by science. I asked him why we were sitting there and not floating around, he said gravity. I asked him why the sky was blue, he said it was because of the angle the light was refracted into the atmosphere. I asked him why the Earth rotates and does not just sit still, he said inertia. Then God came out of the sky and millions of dragons started flying around and the Earth turned inside out. In the afterlife, I saw him again and asked him how that could be explained by science, he replied, "It can't"

Not even close my friend. I am not trying to con you and reach into your pocket.

Who's pocket am I trying to get into?

Perhaps, but I am not trying to get people to quit their jobs, sell their homes and move to high ground, only to question things presented before them.

Such as the exponential increase in volcano eruptions, earthquakes, hurricanes, erratic weather patterns, sunspots, erratic animal behaviour and migration routes, war, famine, plague, pestilence, overpopulation, disease, and increased tension over the past 10 years?

You say all you want is evidence. That's not evidence?? The 12th planet is effecting our Earth even from the distance it is at. The MAGNETIC core of the Earth is being pulled on from its long lost brother, this will cause natural disasters to increase as it gets closer. Look at the statistics. Once inactive volcanos are suddenly springing to life, Earthquakes are striking all over the place, droughts and floods are increasing, holy wars are breaking out, and GEORGE W.BUSH is president of the US...scary.

I am not trying to get anyone to quit their jobs sell their house and move to the mountains either. I am only showing them that is a very real option. Would you live next to the ocean when you knew a tidal wave was coming?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #529690 -

I like how you attach a personal story to everything to prove your point...let me try that...
Cool. I am flattered that you would try my appraoch.

In a previous life I was sitting by the pond talking to a well renowned scientist.
Galileo, Da Vinici, Newton? Who was it? Who was it?

I asked him why we were sitting there and not floating around, he said gravity.
Ah - I knew it was Newton.

I asked him why the sky was blue, he said it was because of the angle the light was refracted into the atmosphere.
Yup - Newton.

I asked him why the Earth rotates and does not just sit still, he said inertia.
Go, Isaac!

Then God came out of the sky ...
How can the whole come out of a part? Good trick - even for God.

Who's pocket am I trying to get into?
That reference wasn't to you and you know it.

Such as the exponential increase in volcano eruptions, earthquakes, hurricanes,
Ah, no. Volcanoes and earthquakes were much more prevalent during the formation of the planet and slwoly decrease over time as the center of the earth cools and will eventually stop altogether like they have on Mars

erratic weather patterns, sunspots, erratic animal behaviour and migration routes, war, famine, plague, pestilence, overpopulation, disease, and increased tension over the past 10 years?
The weather has actually been quite stable for the last 150 years. Disease in the west has decreased dramatically, else there would not be such overpopulation.
I have no idea how you measure increased tension.

You say all you want is evidence. That's not evidence??
NO.

The 12th planet is effecting our Earth even from the distance it is at. The MAGNETIC core of the Earth is being pulled on from its long lost brother, this will cause natural disasters to increase as it gets closer.
But PhD geologists, astrophysicisst, astronomers, etc. who have the equipment, schooling and knowledge do not agree with you.

droughts and floods are increasing,
The Sahara desert is the remains of the worst drought in history and it happened some 10,000+ years ago.

holy wars are breaking out
Holy wars have been going on for millenia, i.e. The Crusades, et al.

and GEORGE W.BUSH is president of the US...scary.
You DO have a point there!

Would you live next to the ocean when you knew a tidal wave was coming?
Obviously not. But if the person trying to get me to move had zero history of prognostication, I would wait for some sort of confirmation.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529834 -

Heh you are funny Swami..I like you.

On a side note I just awoke from a dream, you were in it. We lived next door to each other. That's all I can remember for now.
Oh yeah...you had curly black hair and a tattoo on your right arm.
That's all I can remember for now

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #529851 -

I remember more.
The tattoo was on your right arm near your shoulder. Looked like some kind of military seal, maybe marines?
I saw you on the top floor of your house next to the window so I started yelling "HEY SWAMI!!!" Then I floated up and through your window (it was a dream) and we sat down in your den? and we were talking about science. Of course..you didnt realize it was me. heh (I was in disguise...maybe you were too)
Anyway, we had a nice talk. It was pleasant.

Edited by Shroomism (01/24/02 05:04 AM)

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: ]
    #529924 -

I have no tatoo as I consider my body sacred. (Please note: this is not a judgement on those that do - just what I feel is right for me.)

However, I do have dark (not black) rapidly thinning (due to shroomery stress) curly hair:)

Glad I made you laugh.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #529933 -

< Remember that you are free to skip over my posts if they disturb you. >
Now don't get so sensitive I am just pointing out what I see.
I was referring to the middle path because like some one pointed it out you are just behaving in the opposite spectrum; you use this forum to preach, not to share.
You are rapt up in your own fantasy no different the
shroomism , or for that fact like any one else.
You can't save no one. (I am sorry if I am breaking your illusion)
Peace.


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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #530357 -

em.. sorry for disturbing the swami-shroomism thing - not that i don't find it interesting... on the contrary, it is also very entertaining... like watching two skilled players on a chess board.. anyway - i would like to return to the shroom induced miracles subject for a bit...

well, for sure dillated pupils will give you better vision and thus brighter colours e.t.c... but have you ever had night vision with MDMA?? - not just simply a bit enhanced - (i do not know about you but my pupils get really large on it...)

...you imply that the only thing that matters is the diameter of the pupil just like a camera... so psilocybin and amphetamines(and i don't include mescaline here) would do the same (on the clarity of vision that is) as long as the pupils are the same size.. do you find this true? what do other people have to say based on their experience?

by the way i don't think you would consider your body sacred unless proved, so could you please tell me the procedure so i can test mine too..

with respect

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: Swami]
    #530467 -

I have no tatoo

But in the past life you surely had one. That tatoo caused you to fail your life's mission. Now the carmic wheel has turned and you will never get a tatoo again.

-- Grib

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: gribochek]
    #530514 -

i have tattoos all over my arms, back and chest...am i paying the price for not getting em in previous lives?
anyway grib...i liked your point that swami and shroomism balance each other out, its a shame they cant fuck and have an offspring, that would be cool. well they can fuck but unless shroomism manages an immaculate conception ala virgin mary there will be no sprog....a dirty sanchez maybe?

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: raytrace]
    #530536 -

...you imply that the only thing that matters is the diameter of the pupil just like a camera
Certainly not the only thing that matters. A camera's "night vision" also relies on the speed of the film and ability of the lens to pass light.

However, one thing is certain. No one gets night vision without having hugely dilated pupils. Now as to one drug giving better vision than another, that is highly plausible due to internal neuronal affects. I still think (even if we can't do it today) that it is ultimately explanable by physiology.

by the way i don't think you would consider your body sacred unless proved, so could you please tell me the procedure so i can test mine too..
Well, I only have one which, when it came in the factory-sealed box, was unmarked; and as far as I know, it is the only body that I will get.

As a side note, I was in the Navy and saw many old salts whose tatoos had faded, smeared and distorted and had learned to hate them.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: shroom induced miracles? [Re: LOBO]
    #530546 -

You can't save no one. (I am sorry if I am breaking your illusion)
True and neither can we change one another's ideas, so we might as well disband these message boards and all go home.

Actually the purpose of these discussions is part educational, part entertainment and part social. Socializing has no end purpose, but we all need it regardless.

So like the figure in Greek mythology, I will keep rolling the boulder uselessly up the hill.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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