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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634503 - 06/15/03 02:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Rattlesnake venom also has no desireable affect when intentionally ingested.

toxic:
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means;


"Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs). The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. According to Leo Hollister, Jonathon Ott, and John W. Allen, one would have to consume their body weight in fresh mushrooms or eat approximately 19 grams of the pure chemical substance to bring on death. As long as Psilocybin mushrooms are properly identified, poisoning is not a problem." -from here on Erowid.org


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634505 - 06/15/03 02:32 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That's a TKO, right? :wink:


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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634507 - 06/15/03 02:33 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I use shrooms to get me high and have a good time.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634509 - 06/15/03 02:34 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Rattlesnake venom also has no desireable affect when intentionally ingested.

Alcohol is both toxic and has desirable efects so your point is...?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1634510 - 06/15/03 02:34 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Yay hedonism!
Wait... no, fuck that!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634512 - 06/15/03 02:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have ...blah, blah, blah

OK, so the symptoms that I listed were desirable? YES or NO

OK, so the symptoms that I listed were those of a healthy organism? YES or NO

Get these two correct and you win a Swami TKO - a shroomery first!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634514 - 06/15/03 02:38 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

My point followed.
See the erowid quote.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634518 - 06/15/03 02:43 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I knew I could not get a direct answer. YES or NO is pretty complicated for a Med Student.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634520 - 06/15/03 02:45 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

The symptoms you listed were undesireable {staywithmenow} side effects.

From the erowid information, we can take the physical health of the organism out of the equation (few people have 19 grams of psilocybin sitting around waiting to be ingested). So we're talking about the mental health if anything. Well, it depends on how the organism (in this case a human) is able to handle the drug.

Prozac has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?
Paxil has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?
Zoloft has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634521 - 06/15/03 02:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I knew I could not get a direct answer.

Ay... ya bastard!  I was writing it... I'm a little slow at this hour. :wink:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634526 - 06/15/03 02:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Prozac has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?
Paxil has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?
Zoloft has desireable effects on some and not for others- is it a poison?


Yes, yes & yes! Did I win a prize?

Seriously though, twice while (I dreamt of) tripping, I had serious heart pains. Not "racing heart syndrome" from being anxious, but deep shooting pains telling me something was not right. It was quite disconcerting. I knew the source and the shrooms were A-OK.

BTW, there is at least one recorded death of a small child on psilocybin mushrooms. Do not have the source handy, but the article seemed well-researched and documented; i.e. not from an anti-drug site.



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634536 - 06/15/03 03:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

BTW, there is at least one recorded death of a small child on psilocybin mushrooms. Do not have the source handy, but the article seemed well-researched and documented; i.e. not from an anti-drug site.

Was psilocybin DIRECTLY responsible?
Or did the poor kid have a heart attack, etc.?

I'd like to see the autopsy report.


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634581 - 06/15/03 04:30 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Trying to establish whether a substance "is" a poison or "isn't" a poison does not improve our understanding of it. Some substances are simply more toxic than others. Potatoes are more toxic than rice, salt is more toxic than water, alcohol is more toxic than marijuana, etc.

Psilocybin is not very toxic in therapeutic dosages. Personally I think eating a raw onion on an empty stomach has a more toxic effect.

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OfflineMitchnast
Toadmonger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 8,657
Loc: Okanagan
Last seen: 14 days, 16 hours
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1634599 - 06/15/03 05:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

they never determined if that child died of psilocybin, im quite sure a small child is not so good at identifying mushroom speceis. he probably consumed a few different speceis

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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Swami]
    #1634643 - 06/15/03 06:29 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Well then, I guess we've learned that some poisons can be rewarding if taken cautiously.

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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Ego Death]
    #1634661 - 06/15/03 07:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Please don?t take me wrong, but I don?t think you really experienced ego loss, for what you describe and the amount you took, not enough for that experience.
When you reach ego loss, well what can I say about it, is indescribable, all inner conflicts seas to exist you go back to what you are and always will be.
And like I said in other posts to enter eternity you have to leave behind all you baggage.(my opinion)
And if this type of experience is not what you are looking for that?s perfectly all right, but instead of saying that shrooms should not be eaten by humans and we are not supposed to have ego loss and Buddhism is crap etc, you should rephrase all those things and say that they are not for danoEoboy.



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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Clean]
    #1634665 - 06/15/03 07:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ever look at, and say, a word long enough to where you start to think the word is absolutely ridiculous, and even question the purpose of its existence?

for me, "should" is one of those words.




Truly a spark of genius, here!


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: LOBO]
    #1634853 - 06/15/03 10:30 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Swami and Sclorch someone should take a turbine and hook it up to your arguments. They go round and round with no conclusion and take a lot of energy to create that I bet you could power a small town.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1634905 - 06/15/03 11:06 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Personally I think eating a raw onion on an empty stomach has a more toxic effect.

Ok, lets take the Swami "Raw Onion vs Mushroom Toxicity" Challenge. Average raw onion is about 0.5 pounds or 272 grams.

How many here would eat 272 wet grams (or roughly one dired ounce) with less toxic effects than a raw onion? No onion eaters would:

1. Cry for their mommy. (They might cry though.)

2. Beg God to "Make it stop!, Please make it stop."

3. Call 911 and scream, "Don't let them get me. They are everywhere!"

4. Get religion and a newfound respect for tie-dyed t-shirts.

5. Wake up with the house trashed and ask, "How the hell did this happen?"



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Should we take shrooms? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1634909 - 06/15/03 11:09 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Swami and Sclorch someone should take a turbine and hook it up to your arguments. They go round and round with no conclusion and take a lot of energy to create that I bet you could power a small town.

LOL! Classic MM in action. You might win a Nobel Prize if you could harness internet (or Washington D.C.) B.S. We could make the deserts bloom and feed Africa...



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