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Offlineteonacatl
Shaman

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 26
Loc: USA
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: teonacatl]
    #1736290 - 07/21/03 08:16 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Just an afterthoughtf:
Swami, while your criticism was somewhat unwelcome by me, and even though I am firm in my beliefs, I appreciate a good "jester" (if I may use an archetype) and your criticism is invaluable to the scientific process. I only complained in my previous post because I had posted my inquiry in "spirituality and philosophy" hoping to discuss with others the more shamanic points of mushrooms, rather than have someone try to disprove or discredit a belief system based on hallucinations, and therefore a matter of spirituality wich implies "belief" and "faith". By definition those two words negate the scientific process as they are based on experience, not objective fact. The realm of concensus "reality" is of no concern to the mystic or to any very spiritual person...as spirits cannot be "proved" by today's science.
The last statement of my previous post was sort of hostile towards you; I do not mean to be, I just was hoping to discuss matters of spirituality rather than to scientifically analyse the idea of a spiritual entity, I took your comment as an attack on my beliefs, though they may not have been intended to be.


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All information contained above is completely fictional, a product of the authors imagination.
Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law.

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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: teonacatl]
    #1736678 - 07/21/03 10:39 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Love is just chemicals, a shroom high is just a chemical, not a spirit.

When somebody points out these things, people get annoyed because these kind of material explanations of things don't acknowledge the profound subjective experience. Reducing a mushroom trip to the effect of a chemical is part of the process of dissecting the universe into its component parts (we're assuming it's just a complex machine, like a car, only bigger), not describing an experience. But why is it that we have to be fruitcake new agers to sound profound? Why can't we admit that there are different words than spirit to describe what we encounter on mushroom trips? I guess other words don't have the same effect as "spirit." When you have a really hardcore spiritual trip out, you don't want to say "I tickled my neurotransmitters with a chemical and it tweaked my brain!" that doesn't communicate the experience. When you say "I encountered the spirit of the mushroom!" Then it communicates what you experienced way better.

So why aren't chemicals good enough to be revered? Why only spirits? I mean LOOK at this cool shit!!!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: teonacatl]
    #1736733 - 07/21/03 10:53 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

It doesn't matter wether it is in our heads or not.

It doesn't? You are not even curious? If we could definitely establish the fact that we are conversing with an external entity; that would change everything!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 15 years, 23 days
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: Swami]
    #1736813 - 07/21/03 11:20 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
It doesn't matter wether it is in our heads or not.

It doesn't? You are not even curious? If we could definitely establish the fact that we are conversing with an external entity; that would change everything! 




ok, well, lets get on it.  ?!?!?!??!?!  :confused:  ?!?!??!?!


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Offlineteonacatl
Shaman

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 26
Loc: USA
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: Malachi]
    #1737191 - 07/22/03 01:50 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Swami, you have a good point. I am curious, but I do not see how it is possible to establish this one way or the other. Spirits and the like cannot be measured; they are a matter of faith, so to speak. I do not explore this question because I see no way of solving it. IF you do know of a way, say so, because I would like to hear it!
Dogomush said:
"Why can't we admit that there are different words than spirit to describe what we encounter on mushroom trips? I guess other words don't have the same effect as 'spirit.'"
You have a point as well. Spirit may or may not be the best word for what I experience, but it is the best word I know based on how I enteract with said "spirit". Perhaps you were right when you say that it perhaps is because other words don't have the same effect. I use the words I use in order to distinguish the fact that my experience involves interaction with what seems to be a conciousness. Perhaps this conciousness is an aspect of my own psyche....but even so, a skitzophrenic has no choice but to look at his imaginary partners as real, because that is exactly what they seem to be to him. I reiterate my belief that this entity is because of the state of mind induced by shrooms being so similar to skitzophrenia. Probably this is just an aspect of onesself, maybe the "higher self" that mystics and also the psychologist CG Jung talks about (?)


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All information contained above is completely fictional, a product of the authors imagination.
Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law.

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Offlinecybernaut3
journeyman
Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: The Spirit of the Shroom? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1737488 - 07/22/03 05:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

>For example, I know my sex drive is very real, and I don't think I am only imagining that I have a sex drive. Yet I am fairly convinced that it exists only in my head. I don't think it's roaming around in hyperspace at night hunting for beings of flesh and blood that it can possess.

some people actually DO roam around at night hunting for beings that they can possess and/or have sex with. seriously. and many of them have no idea, because they are dreaming.

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