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OfflineLOBO
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How do you classify the mushroom spirit?
    #1628373 - 06/12/03 08:24 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

For those that feel and believe that shrooms have a spirit, how do you classify this spirit?
In My case I am more and more convinced that there is some type of intelligence behind this sacrament.
Through the years of "dreaming with them" I felt that I have establish a type of relationship with it and start to understand how it communicates with me.
I came to the conclusion that this spirit for years was testing me to prove if I was worth of its friendship, like bad trips etc.
Until one day the spirit it self appeared to me, told me that now I was all right, and that had things to show me.
Since then all my ventures into its realm have been very positive, one way it communicates with me, is with sensations to my body when it approves or disproves something I am thinking, or if it wants to show me visions will pull me away from a spot.
I also feel that this spirit is very playful and sometimes likes to tease me, I felt it does this when I am very stiff and serious and to enter fully into its realm, I have to let go and become like a child.
Well I know that some of you must think that I am crazy, but I will like to know if any of you feels this way and if you have any thing to add to it.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1628920 - 06/12/03 12:59 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

How do you classify the mushroom spirit?

As a concept, a thought experiment, or a focusing technique.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1628932 - 06/12/03 01:06 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Seriously Lobo, if the mushroom had a spirit, don't you think that a trip would be qualitatively different than one on pure synthetic psilocybin? No one can tell the difference, which seems to point to a purely chemical interaction.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offline11polakie11
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #1628969 - 06/12/03 01:19 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

hey lobo,
i dig your rhymes.

i hear what ya mean.
i haven't gotten that uplink from shrooms however: my door was unlocked differently.

but same nonetheless. what works for you works for you.


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: 11polakie11]
    #1629100 - 06/12/03 02:37 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I can't even find the mushrooms
let alone the spirit.

I've read of people meeting the peyote spirit who chastised them for using it primarily recreationaly rather than as a spiritual quest but I personaly think the drive towards experiencing an expanded state of awareness reflects an inner need to connect with spirit, to work on oneself spiritualy. There IS more to life than meets the eye, and any psychotropic could be a religious sacrament (imo)


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: castaway]
    #1629190 - 06/12/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

If you wanna meet the mushroom spirit, eat 5 dried grams and say "hello, am I alone?" and see what happens  :smirk:


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: chodamunky]
    #1629547 - 06/12/03 05:59 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I hope one day I could do that .

I guess I need a guided entheogenic experience; There must be web-sites for that kind of vacation


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OfflineCougheeman
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: chodamunky]
    #1629642 - 06/12/03 06:40 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

If it answers... I would be very scared.


--------------------
Aum Namah Sivaya


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Anonymous

Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Cougheeman]
    #1630421 - 06/13/03 12:44 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In My case I am more and more convinced that there is some type of intelligence behind this sacrament.




its God.  to understand this, you must understand God, if you instantly think of any religion or any other bullshit you heard about god, then you are already off track and will think duh.

letting go is definately the thing to do!  go out of body, dont stick around and feel the discomfort that you will start to feel if you dont LET GO. dont sit there and feel like you have just a skeleton and no body, if you feel like this then its time to leave the world behind  and be one with the universe(or if it suits you better, god).(now whos the crazy one?)  lay down, close your eyes, relax and let go, THEN you will know the "magic", hallucinating isnt very fuckin magical to me.

its pretty logic to me to let go, why wouldnt you? why take something if you arent going to experience what you pay for.  To me the shroom experience is all about the out of body experience and merging with God.  if you aint merged with the universe and become one(with god) then you aint trippin balls!

you need to understand that it isnt the mushroom that has the spirit, the mushroom simply opens your mind to acknowledge the spirit that is always there, even if you dont think it is.  God has a keen sense of humor, doesnt he?

:grin:, imho


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1630601 - 06/13/03 02:34 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

For those that feel and believe that shrooms have a spirit, how do you classify this spirit?



I think that the mushroom spirit is not the mushroom itself...but
...what I really think is happening is that the mushrooms allow you to see the spirit all around us...  It's the same spirit that dwells through-out our entire planet.
It's what we call nature, god, satan, life, death, weather, patterns, coincidences, EVERYTHING. It's constantly moving... It's ALIVE.
It is within mushrooms as well as everything else.
Psilocybin just changes our brain chemistry- (thus perception) -allowing us to view this spirit in ways that would normally be hidden. I don't think that it is a spirit in and of itself, but it's more like a connection with a spirit that is everything that we know, 'the gaian mind' or the collective consciousness. It always makes itself known to me in the form of an enormous, usually red serpent who never stops moving.  :smile: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1630641 - 06/13/03 03:53 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Catalyst


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #1630644 - 06/13/03 03:58 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know Swami.. I think I could tell a real trip from one on synthetic psilocybin.. want to challenge me?


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Lobo [Re: LOBO]
    #1630736 - 06/13/03 06:34 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)


"one day the spirit it self appeared to me, told me ..."-

Voice language?

"one way it communicates with me, is with sensations to my body when it approves or disproves something I am thinking,"-

Chills in the chest region? Chakra?

"and become like a child"-

Become vulnerable to the influence of the spirit.
---------------------------

Ask for stuff to write down like automatic-writing,
you know, stuff like the meaning of life, and then post them somewhere under a pseudonym.

Ask a question for me please...

"Does inclusive resolution of conflict towards the alleviation of misery have to include pain and death? And if not then how do we get around it."

I'm stuck on my path at the moment and could use some pointers also if any are forthcoming...I appreciate any help you can provide.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Lobo [Re: castaway]
    #1630744 - 06/13/03 06:46 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

To answer some you, and to relate a bit more of my feeling with respect to the mushrooms, I feel the connection to the spirit Gaia, and what can only be describe as being in the presence of God (on heavy douses), but at the same time I feel very clearly this unique presence which is the mushroom, has a distinctive personality, and it is it that helps you reach the other levels, kind of a guide.
In some esoteric literature they talk about, that each plant and animal has a governing spirit (deva) and that some people claim that they can communicate with them and is how they have learned about the properties of each plant etc.
No like I said before I did not feel this before, it showed it self to me and from then on is that I feel its presence.
And I have read that they gave synthetic psylocibin to Maria Sabina and she said that it had no spirit?
I know it sounds cucu, but is what I am experiencing.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Lobo [Re: castaway]
    #1630766 - 06/13/03 07:30 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"Voice language?"

When it appeared to me, id not hear sound coming out of it but I understood very clear the message, I guess telepathy?

"Chills in the chest region? Chakra?"

More like mini orgasm?s in the hole upper torso and head.

"Become vulnerable to the influence of the spirit."

NO not vulnerable, become like when you were a little kid (5 or 6 years)connect to how you use to feel back then.

And for your question my friend, The answer is with in you I dont think the mushroom will give you that answer It may just help you get rid of the fog in your mind.
Take 5 grams and you will have your answer, I am pretty sure what the answer is, not because I am wise or enlighten.
Because is usually the same answer for every thing.
When you reach your higher self, every thing is as it should be there is no conflict confusion or doubt.
You live in love harmony and wonder is in that state that you realize all your conflicts are illusions or like Mr T will say just jiba jaba.
The problem is that we forget later and fall a seep again.
But what do I know, I am just jiba jabing  :wink:
 


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Lobo [Re: LOBO]
    #1630803 - 06/13/03 08:12 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I hope you don't mind the questions.
I am intrigued.

Does this communication only occur under the influence?

And how often do you partake of the entheogenic experience in the course of a year?


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Lobo [Re: castaway]
    #1630886 - 06/13/03 08:54 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

For the moment just under the influence, and I take the sacrament no more than 2 or 3 times a year (at least 5 G).
Takes me a long time to digest each experience, and I don't mind your questions, I am intrigued my self thats why I posted the topic.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Lobo [Re: LOBO]
    #1630918 - 06/13/03 09:05 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

"at least 5 g"-

With Maoi (sp?) (rue)?

Do you have to take that much to experience communication?

I've only experienced a level 1 I guess and that was in Panama 25 years ago when I was in the army. If I did 5g around here I'm pretty sure I'd wake up in the observation ward.

Do you have a trip record I can see?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1630931 - 06/13/03 09:09 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know Swami.. I think I could tell a real trip from one on synthetic psilocybin.. want to challenge me?

Yes, I want to open myself up to felony charges for manufacture and distribution...

Maria Sabina, the cuarandera and shamaness, from whom the magic mushrooms were "rediscovered" by Wasson, was given pure psilocybin and noted no difference. So to speak of a "mushroom spirit" is highly inaccurate as the "spirit" resides in the chemical structure of the tryptamine molecule, not from a formerly living fungus. The mycelium, spores, fruiting body and all that a mushroom dreams of and lives for, is totally irrelevant.

The "spirit" has no life of it's own and is unable to be "contacted" until subsequent
interaction with human neuronal receptors. This is known as a "bio-chemical" reaction not superstition.






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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Lobo [Re: castaway]
    #1630961 - 06/13/03 09:22 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Yes I always use rue, "communication" happens in my case at least at a level 3 and up trip.
I don?t have trip reports sorry.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Lobo [Re: LOBO]
    #1630990 - 06/13/03 09:41 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Rue (or caapi) is hardly part of the mushroom family. It contains the chemicals harmine and harmiline which also work fine in synthetic form.

So once again, how can the mushroom spirit be contacted, if in fact no mushrooms are truly necessary to have this contact? Are you merely being poetic? Or are you saying the spirit exists independently of the fungus and the fungus is merely a catalyst; a transport system to where the spirit resides?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #1631046 - 06/13/03 10:14 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So to speak of a "mushroom spirit" is highly inaccurate as the "spirit" resides in the chemical structure of the tryptamine molecule, not from a formerly living fungus. The mycelium, spores, fruiting body and all that a mushroom dreams of and lives for, is totally irrelevant.




semantics, semantics , I frankly don?t know were the spirit resides whether is the fruit body or not (I will think the later"), that?s not the point, If you feel more comfortable with "The tryptamine molecule Spirit" works for me.
I called it Mushroom spirit it just feels better to me to get my experience explained.

Quote:

The "spirit" has no life of it's own and is unable to be "contacted" until subsequent
interaction with human neuronal receptors. This is known as a "bio-chemical" reaction not superstition.





Well that?s your opinion and I am glad that you see it so clear, That is not my case, The intention of posting this topic was to share an honest experience that I had and try to understand the mushroom experience and how it reacts to my being, this topic was for those who share similar experiences and feel that the "mushroom has a spirit" and that there is a possibility that could be communication with it.
If you read my first posting is very clear.
I may one day think and feel like you, but for the moment I will continue with my explorations because there maybe just one possibility these things do happen and exist, and are part of the Human experience.
I like to keep my mind and options open for the moment.
But your opinions are welcomed.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1631086 - 06/13/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

semantics, semantics , I frankly don?t know were the spirit resides whether is the fruit body or not (I will think the later"), that?s not the point, If you feel more comfortable with "The tryptamine molecule Spirit" works for me.
I called it Mushroom spirit it just feels better to me to get my experience explained.


That is fine, but is not merely semantic nit-picking designed to irritate you. Clarification is actually necessary to set the groundwork for a discussion.

Webster:

spir?it ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sprt)
n.

The vital principle or animating force within living beings.


As no living or formerly living organism need be used, then it cannot be either the tryptamine molecule spirit (it was not living) nor the mushroom spirit (the mushroom is not necessary).

This contact may actually be accessing a part of the human mind normally hidden from view, so one may be have an internal rather than an external dialogue.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #1631128 - 06/13/03 11:04 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

This contact may actually be accessing a part of the human mind normally hidden from view, so one may be have an internal rather than an external dialogue.





Swami I accept that possibility that the dialog could be with in, but can you accept the possibility that it could also be outside?
Did you had this experience? that you are so sure.
I am open to both possibilities, but I am basing my explanation on my experience, and it feels like outside.
Now if you want me to admit that I am crazy cuz I talk to shrooms, I am even open to that explanation.
I am not here to convince you or any body in that case, I just wanted to share this experience and if some one had something similar to share it back that?s it.


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Anonymous

Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1631158 - 06/13/03 11:16 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

the closest i have come to "feeling" the "shroom spirit" is when i felt that the world was nearin an end, i "felt" this, it was said to me thought feelings, i also came to realize that people were becomign more and more open everyday, and not so close minded and becoming more aware of their spirituality.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Lobo [Re: LOBO]
    #1631901 - 06/13/03 05:22 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

What you describe certainly fits with another description:

http://pathwork.org/lectures/lectlist2.html

"Establishing contact is always up to you, however, and it always requires your openness. Then you will receive.
If you are patient and you do not want only one particular answer, or if you are not set in your mind to receive the answer in one particular way, but leave to God as to how it will come to you -- then you will gradually establish a perfect and wonderful contact. Perhaps it will feel quite different from what you have imagined, but whatever God decides will ultimately be best for you.So when seeking such personal contact, this should be your motive and this should be the way to go about it.

The higher self certainly manifests itself. But it cannot always come through clearly, for it is covered by many layers of imperfection, layers of dense matter, all the distortions that necessitate life on earth. If these layers were not present, life on earth would be superfluous. If the higher self could manifest itself as easily as all that, you would not have to live again and again; you would be advanced far enough not to have to go through further incarnations.

The voice of your own higher self is so far away and soft, sometimes so inaccessible, that it does not speak clearly to you in so many words, but acts simply by guiding you to heed what you call "conscience." Thus the higher self can influence you to fight your lower self.

The higher self, when listened to, can make itself known in the course of life, through certain actions and reactions, but it cannot converse with you the way a spirit can.

In other words, the higher self acts and guides to a certain extent, but it does not speak coherently. It inspires thought, but it does not speak the way I speak through this medium. Or it does not speak in a way capable of being heard."

----------------------------



The first 24 lectures provide the complete kernal of the channelled work and the rest was 'gravy-train', to be blunt, I think.

There are many points I disagree with and yet I found these articles to be a very enlightening read.




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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #1632813 - 06/14/03 08:19 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Webster:

spir?it ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sprt)
n.

The vital principle or animating force within living beings.





When you think about it, among all the animating forces that cause mushrooms to grow, the human intent to have a shroom trip is included. I have seen many mushrooms that wouldn't have existed if it weren't for this human interest in them. Therefore, the "spirit of the mushroom" is partly human and lives within our brains.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: LOBO]
    #1632964 - 06/14/03 10:44 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Swami I accept that possibility that the dialog could be with in, but can you accept the possibility that it could also be outside?
It is possible, but highly unlikely. What evidence would point you in that direction?

When I eat an apple, does the apple allow me to access energy from "outside" or is the energy released from the chemical breakdown of the sugars?

Similarly, when I eat magic mushrooms, does the mushroom allow me to access energy or dimensions from "outside" or is the effect merely a result of biochemical reactions?

Did you had this experience? that you are so sure.
I have had one contact experience that was very powerful. As a non-tripping person nearby would experience nothing unusual; it certainly points to an internal state no matter how it "feels".

Remember though, that a schizophrenic hears voices that no one else can, but these voices feed him false information.

The one measure (to me) that contact came from outside (or from accessing such a profound inner state as to transcend the inner/outer definition) would be to receive verifiable information that would be impossible to know otherwise.





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinekingjames488
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #10230311 - 04/25/09 08:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

im not sure if theres a mushroom spirit persay... but maybe more of a connection with the life force of the world.

a beeing of sorts, more of a force then an entity.

a spirit maybe?

who knows.


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InvisibleAlbert King
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Swami]
    #10230320 - 04/25/09 08:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Seriously Lobo, if the mushroom had a spirit, don't you think that a trip would be qualitatively different than one on pure synthetic psilocybin? No one can tell the difference, which seems to point to a purely chemical interaction. 




I believe it is a chemical reaction that puts you into a state where you can communicate with the spirits. I don't think that there is a mushroom spirit, that is IMO. A lot of people do think there is one. I have heard that the mushroom spirit is male and the ayahuasca spirit is female.

I communicate with the spirits on mushrooms in a dream like manner. I can talk and they talk and show me scenes. I usually get a lot of energy work done on me, that is accompanied by abstract images.


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Invisiblesterbeklang
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: kingjames488]
    #10230353 - 04/25/09 08:53 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

This is probably not the actual mushroom spirit, but this is something I saw on my last trip.  It was toward the beginning of the trip and I was laying on the bed with my eyes closed.  It's a rough, simplistic, childlike sketch of something that was fleshy, three dimensional and very much alive at the time.  Each of the petals is a snake head and the stem moved like a snake.  The different facial expressions represent that each one had a separate consciousness, but worked as a whole creature.  I had the sensation that it knew everything about me and had a rather low opinion of me.  It was hungry, drooling, and it was going to eat me.  I didn't want to go there, so I got up off the bed and walked to the living room, never to see it again.  Not a fantastic drawing, but the vision of it has stuck with me ever since and I wonder if being consumed actually would have been a good thing, even though I was stifled by fear.  On the other hand, I probably made the right decision.  Because the main theme of the peaking hours was that everything in my life had lead up to that trip, that day, and the experience was doing what it was supposed to be doing.  I think I was simply offered a choice of how it was going to go down:  in the La-Z-Boy recliner in the living room, or in the interdimensional belly of a snakeheaded bloodflower.



The words don't mean anything.  I just sketched this on a piece of paper where I'd already written myself a note to meet my friend on Friday.  Once again, sorry the drawing is so stupid looking, but I had to put it out there.  Is this part of the mushroom intelligence or an "invading entity" trying to take advantage of me in my state of weakness?  Am I the only one who's seen this thing?  Is it just a meaningless creation of my sick, cowardly soul or was it a harbinger of something more?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: sterbeklang]
    #10231681 - 04/25/09 03:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I've never seen a snakeheaded bloodflower, but on high doses of Psilocybe I tend to see a malevolent jester figure; perhaps the personification of the Trickster archetype?

IMO you should try to embrace whatever experiences are trying to make you afraid.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: deCypher]
    #10231990 - 04/25/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tend to see a malevolent jester figure; perhaps the personification of the Trickster archetype?




You read too much into things. That is just me fucking with your head. :yesnod:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: deCypher]
    #10232101 - 04/25/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
...but on high doses of Psilocybe I tend to see a malevolent jester figure; perhaps the personification of the Trickster archetype?



Interesting, one of my friends who I tripped with experienced this same figure whom he called, "The Joker".


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Albert King]
    #10232144 - 04/25/09 04:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe those spirits can work on your rating.:satansmoking:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: Icelander]
    #10232157 - 04/25/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Low ratings are God's will made manifest.


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Invisiblesterbeklang
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Registered: 03/03/09
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Re: How do you classify the mushroom spirit? [Re: deCypher]
    #10233304 - 04/25/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I've never seen a snakeheaded bloodflower, but on high doses of Psilocybe I tend to see a malevolent jester figure; perhaps the personification of the Trickster archetype?

IMO you should try to embrace whatever experiences are trying to make you afraid.




Oh yeah, this totally had the Jester feel too it.  But a dark, all-knowing Jester who wanted to eat me.  All it needed was the little hat with the bells on it.

I think I agree with you to some extent... I was very afraid of it and probably should have confronted it instead of running away.  But it was my first trip in 10 years, so I was scared.  Maybe next time.


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