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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: sunconscious]
    #604082 - 04/10/02 07:13 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

An hallucination is seeing something that is not there and not recognising its not there sorta like a dactura delerium, where you would be talking to a plant thinking its you best mate.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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OfflineTeonanacatl fan
journeyman
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 38
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: EvilGir]
    #604131 - 04/10/02 08:57 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Back to topic...
spirits or not, I KNOW that each shroom (or shrooms attached in families) has it's own "personality".

I believed (or at least respected) that "witch" and vase story, I'm I supposed to believe that my thoughts on these have no validation swami?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Teonanacatl fan]
    #604184 - 04/10/02 10:23 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

My witch and vase stories are true, but just stories. I draw no conclusions whatsoever; they are like a zen koan - open-ended riddles. The label of "witch" was to enhance the telling of the tale and not representative of my beliefs. I shared them to tell all that I too have encounters with the mysterious on occasion.

So you say I'll "respect" you and you "respect" me. I proposed nothing other than a good yarn. You propose something different.

This is not about belief and perspective.

If a chemical in a lab has the same signature as the fungus, then what you are experiencing while tripping CANNOT be the spirit of the organism no matter how quaint and soothing the idea is. There is no wiggle room here. (see my signature quote)


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Swami]
    #604275 - 04/10/02 12:29 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Unless psilocybin is the spirit of the mushroom.

Not really anything to do with chemicals is it - you can create a human being in a few test tubes, does that mean it won't have a spirit?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Xlea321]
    #604425 - 04/10/02 02:31 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

Unless psilocybin is the spirit of the mushroom.
But psilocybin in the lab cannot say that "I am older than thought in your species" or any other McKennian phrase. It has not lived on other planets, nor does it have a history. The chemical has not witnessed the birth of stars, etc. So where does the "spirit" part come in?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinecHeMiCaLbLuE
member
Registered: 04/07/02
Posts: 158
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Swami]
    #604454 - 04/10/02 03:02 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

it seems quite ridiculous that a mushroom contains a spirit rather it may bring out the spirit in you, the spirit of all time and ages and reincarnations from past lives.


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insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Swami]
    #604476 - 04/10/02 03:27 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

But psilocybin in the lab cannot say that "I am older than thought in your species"

Why not? The molecular structure itself is the same. If we can create DNA in the lab does this mean it won't share the 3 billion year history of DNA in human beings? Does it somehow negate the history of DNA when you can copy it's structure in the lab?

A single mushroom isn't older than thought in our species either - it dies after a few months. The psilocybin molecular structure is the ancient part, not necessarily the particular container it's in. Fungi are producing this stuff for a reason. And like most botanists I don't think the answer relates to that hoary old story about "these alkaloids are simply poison for protection". That's garbage.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Xlea321]
    #604577 - 04/10/02 05:20 PM (21 years, 10 months ago)

A single mushroom isn't older than thought in our species either - it dies after a few months.
The mycelium and spores do have a continuity that goes back to the beginning. Some part of the original still exists.

And like most botanists I don't think the answer relates to that hoary old story about "these alkaloids are simply poison for protection". That's garbage.
That explanation may not fly, but there is even less support for the "They manufacturer it to have a symbiotic relationship with high order mammals." hypothesis.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: What shrooms really are [Re: Swami]
    #604913 - 04/11/02 12:36 AM (21 years, 10 months ago)

"The mycelium and spores do have a continuity that goes back to the beginning. Some part of the original still exists."

Yeah but there's no psilocybin in the mycelium.

"That explanation may not fly, but there is even less support for the "They manufacturer it to have a symbiotic relationship with high order mammals." hypothesis."

Agreed. The answer is unknown at the moment.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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