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Evolutionary value of psilocybin?
    #1048793 -

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a theory about why the mushrooms contain these interesting chemicals? Usually when a plant contains a potent chemical it's assumed it's meant to deter preditors or otherwise help it cope with some environmental hardship. Is it concievable that the psychopharmacological effects are unpleasant to mushroom eating critters and "normal" humans, and Nature/God/Whatever didn't take into account that some of us would actually seek out the shrooms and consume them for the effects? For what it's worth, I don't believe anything in nature exists without a reason.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1049633 -

First of all, animals eat psilocybin mushrooms all the time. How could God, the creator of Earth, not take into mind people would eat this mushroom. In fact, mushrooms are a gift from God himself. I resent the fact that you refer to the enlightened mushroom eaters as not "normal."


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It's better to overdose than to underdose.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: nermski]
    #1049656 -

In fact, mushrooms are a gift from God himself.

this is a fact? shit, i must of missed that meeting.


Edited by chodamunky (11/13/02 02:54 PM)

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1050344 -

I puzzled over this for awhile, eventually I came to the conclusion that certain chemicals exsisted in a plant to further the species. For instance marijuana will get you high, cocaine will get you lit, soybeans will provide protein, etc. What I began pondering how this was possible. How could these plants understand how they would affect other creatures. Lately I've been reading about Quantum Theory, and Im beginning to realize, that there is no such thing as a coincidence, but there is such thing as free will. These organisms/chemicals, even make them look like something one would want to study and consume. Psilocybe tryptamines don't bruise blue by accident.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Remy]
    #1050359 -

Check out the psilocybins producers guide, and the mushroom cultivator, the azure's mushroom is forcing its way in to the human world. The azure's mushroom can only be found around human dewellings! The mushroom is here to save us!


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1050488 -

>The mushroom is here to save us!

that's one of those statements that is best started with "at the risk of sounding crazy" :wink:
 

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Smack31]
    #1050574 -

LOL


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Smack31]
    #1050781 -

Maybe it sounds crazy now, but if you think about while your tripping on mushrooms, i'm sure it can be profound. Don't forget what you feel during your trip, because there lies the beauty, not what you think about it afterwards.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: ]
    #1050815 -

don't get me wrong... i took his point, i was just thinking about what other people would think.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Smack31]
    #1050832 -

I agree with it  :smile:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1050833 -

Climbing the amino acids
I peer out from the void
Erupting neurotransmitters
Screaming to be free
Awaken, in a silver pool
Energy aglow
Twisting through the double helix
Twice, but now sixteen
Catalyst of time and space
Potentials unlimited
Envoking spirit, mind and will
Manifesting thoughts and dreams
A twist of fate, a spark within
That grows into a blaze
Like stars of old, ancient light
Once born then death now free


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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1050992 -

Being of the NA Shaman persuasion, I think an old Cherokee story is relevant here:
When the First People arrived on Mother Earth, they began to hunt the animals of the land for their food, clothing, and other needs. These hairless preadators were different from others; smarter, sometimes fiercer, and they took great numbers to feed their clans.
The animals were disturbed by these First People, and formed a council. They agreed that something must be done. They made Medicine (as in magic), and released disease upon the First People. The people began to suffer with fevers and all manner of illness, and they did not know how to stop it.
The plants of the Earth saw the plight of the First People, and decided to make their own Council. After much deliberation, they decided that they, too, would make Medicine of their own. Each plant then agreed to cure at least ONE ailment that had been unleashed upon the First People. This is how plants came to be able to cure humans.
I suppose that in keeping with this story, the will of a living thing can often define its evolution. In the simplest case, it is the will to survive that drives evolution. But the will to become more than what one is, or to fill a higher purpose can also drive the Evolutionary machine. Shrooms may play into this by allowing humans to cure the diseases of ignorance and negativity that they create inside themselves. Remember: each of the Plant Council cures AT LEAST ONE disease. That includes emotional ones, too.
So in a way, I suppose the Sacred Shrooms may allow us to access an idealized frame of mind, which we will then will ourselves to evolve into. Teonanacatl (and other Shaman allies) comes to us, takes our hand, and shows us the Door. But we as a species have to take the hint, muster our will, and open it.
Hope this is insightful.

Walk in Beauty,
The Green Earth Shaman



--------------------
Walk in Beauty,
The Green Earth Shaman

"Whatever you take from Mother Earth, replace it, because nothing is for nothing."
-Native American Proverb

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1051930 -

Ok, so I've got spiritual and philosophical answers, anybody care to address the scientific? There must be some biology trained shroomers who can shed some light. I'm not college educated so I'm blinded by the glare of my ignorence.

If we accept the mainstream scientific theory that man came on the scene reletively late in the geological time frame [which I do], it can be assumed that mushrooms evolved mostly before human spirituality entered the picture. If anything, it seems more logical to assume that humans tailored their spiritual beliefs to what they found existing in nature [ie psychoactive plants etc], than it does to believe the plants somehow changed to suit man's spiritual needs.

Of course all this flies in the face of all anthrocentric belief systems, christian or shamanistic. If everyone here [but me] thinks the earth and all it contains was designed solely for the use and enjoyment of Man, I've come to the wrong place to ask my question. If however, some of you believe that man is just another animal [albiet a sentient animal], and that man came on the scene late in evolutionary history, it must stand to reason that there is another explantation to the question "why are mushrooms psychoactive?".

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1052051 -

Schultes the biologist who studied psychoactive plants/fungi said that psilocybin served no purpose at all in the lifecycle of the mushroom yet it devotes 15% of it's energy to producing it. No-one knows why.

Daniel Pinchbeck suggests in his latest book that psilocybin may be a method plants evolved for communicating plant consciousness with animals.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1052237 -

Thanks Alex123, I'm not familiar with any scientific studies of psychoactive mushroom. Most of my reasearch has been over the web and the info is heavily slanted toward either the recreational drug culture [the majority] or the more serious spiritual [as opposed to druggies desguised as psuedo-spiritual shaman types].
I just can't accept that anything that an organism devotes 15% of it's energy into producing has no value to its survival.
It's not even possible for me to concieve of an organism without a brain taking active steps toward promoting anybody's conscienseness, let alone taking an active role in its own evolution.
There's got to be a reason, even if we never discover it.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1052304 -

There are millions of plant compounds of which we know nothing. So what?

Pinchbeck can suggest whatever he likes. His opinions are no more meaningful than anyone else's. Being published does not give one special knowledge.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (11/14/02 04:49 PM)

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1052341 -

I am convinced that things such as Quantum Physics and Sychronicity hold the answer to all of these problems. I am completely convinced that Psilocybin exsists solely for the purpose that it is used for today.

Edited by Remy (11/14/02 03:16 PM)

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Remy]
    #1052736 -

I am completely convinced that Psilocybin exsists solely for the purpose that it should be used for today.

You are convinced that psilocybin exists for the purpose of making someone call 911 and shouting "Dear God make them stop! They are crawling out of my eyes. Oh, please in the name of heaven, help me!"

Hmmm...



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Swami]
    #1052824 -

Give it a rest Swami. The guy asked for theories about why mushrooms contain psilocybin not to hear your ego flapping every other post.

You think it's all meaningless and everyone who says it isn't is mad. Fine. Now fuck off and leave the rest of us to it.






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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Swami]
    #1052923 -

In reply to:
I am completely convinced that Psilocybin exsists solely for the purpose that it should be used for today.

You are convinced that psilocybin exists for the purpose of making someone call 911 and shouting "Dear God make them stop! They are crawling out of my eyes. Oh, please in the name of heaven, help me!"

Hmmm...



Essentially, Yes.

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