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OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1055805 - 11/15/02 03:04 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quite an interesting theory. Quantum Theory can't disprove it either.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1056101 - 11/15/02 04:31 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Apoplexy? Heh - never. I am not the one with out-of-control emotions. *Holds up mirror*

This "theory" was popularized by McKenna. No one knows if spores can survive in space, nor is there one single piece of evidence pointing in the direction of ET shrooms.

Oh, wait. I forgot that anything printed on a website has veracity *doh*.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (11/16/02 02:06 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1057968 - 11/16/02 01:02 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't the spores be stranded out in space unable to enter a solar system due to the force of the sun?

No, because if they started in another solar system, they would have started at a dead stop. This would give a longer acceleration time than deceleration time while entering the second solar system.

They would have cooled down to 3 kelvins within just a short time, which would make it possible for them to survive for millions of years.

It would be simple enough to examine the genome, and determine if it was terrestrial, or at least if it were as terrestrial as we are, if it is then it would share about half the genes that we do.


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


LET'S GO, DARWIN!


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Anonymous

Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Earth Shaman]
    #1078831 - 11/23/02 06:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

earth shamans explanation makes good sense to me... i feel that nature has always made a concious effort... peace...





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OfflineSterile
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Swami]
    #1078943 - 11/23/02 09:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I suppose you know nothing about the famous collaboration between the most respected scientists G.Wasson, C.Ruck, A.Hofmann.
In their famous book: LSD: The way to Eleysina (The revelation of the secret of the ceremonies) they describe the ultimate  find: That a holy juice used in the ceremonies, which among others, (prooved after chemical identification by Hofmann) contained PSILOCYBIN.
And that was in ancient Greece. Pretty far from mexico isn't it???  :cool:
I dont want to make this post big, but Terrence Mc Kenna has  revealed it all to me,
The earth as we see it,(me and Terrence :smile:) is a giant living organism, and has to deal with its parasites (humans) so it produces (just like any other living creature)
some substances that will save her immune system.
For a attack of a species that has a spiritual part, it needs a SPIRITUAL ANTISEPTIC. (the psychoactive effects that make you loooove nature)  :smile:
Evolution might be present at random times, as mention above, and that may be the reason for the different colonization times of psychoactive fungi on earth.

The truth is, that ....it works!
For example i am much more sensitive and respective for our planet after entering the mysterious world of psychoactive fungi.


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




Edited by Sterile (11/23/02 09:10 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Sterile]
    #1079037 - 11/23/02 10:58 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I suppose you know nothing
Your supposition is all wrong which isn't too surprising.

That a holy juice used in the ceremonies, which among others, (prooved after chemical identification by Hofmann) contained PSILOCYBIN.
I don't know what "prooving is" (and you call me ignorant!). There was no 2000 year-old leftover "juice". It was all a theoretical mind experiment.

For example i am much more sensitive and respective for our planet after entering the mysterious world of psychoactive fungi.
Yes, that is obvious by your opening attacking and erroneous line. Try upping the dosage.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1079108 - 11/23/02 12:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Great thread by the way. Here's my input:

I don't beleive that anything on this earth is here for the benefit of mankind, i find that idea completely ludicrous and egotistical. We are but one species of billions. We are not the most important here, not even more important that any other. We are completely equal in value to trees, grass, cows, bacterium. All life has its place and we all (are supposed to) work together to achieve some sort of equllibrium. Some state of balance, give and take, with the other lifeforms.

Psilocybes most likely evolved on thier own with no thought or consideration to human beings. Everything evolves as it does with the means to have its place in this society (earth.) Nothing is here for human beings alone, we hold claim to none of it, and if we claim that another life form exists for the purpose of our own enlightenment then we really can't be that enlightened. Thinking that psilocybes are here for our purposes is just a little to egotistical to hold any truth for me. It's possible that the mushroom is aware of our relationship with it, and that it wants to share knowledge with others, but to say its whole purpose in existance is for our gain is ridiculous.

I think I've made my point.


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OfflineSterile
mushroom lover
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Swami]
    #1079141 - 11/23/02 12:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Your supposition is all wrong which isn't too surprising.
I am sorry Swami, but you are an ignorant and a liar who claims not being an ignorant as well.
I don't know what "prooving is" (and you call me ignorant!). There was no 2000 year-old leftover "juice". It was all a theoretical mind experiment.
I was actually hoping that you would make me explain this "prooving" part more, but i didnt want to make a huge post, untill you prooved the level of your ignorance

. SO! Here is a more in depth analysis of the G.Wasson,G.Ruck, A.Hoffman's work:

There was information about this "juice" consumed in the "eleysinian mysteries" in ancient Greece, found in many ancient scripts.
All information found wanted the magic 'juice' called "KYKEON"  to contain wheat.
But what was causing all the intense visions that where taking place inside inside the temple? awe!
That was Hofmanns great question but not for long.
A further investigation on wheat showed that sclerotia that grew on it of the fungi Claviceps purpurea contained the exact same alcaloid with the shrooms used in Mexico by many tribes.yes PSILOCYBIN !
I could keep on posting numerous info about why those scientists believe that this Shamanic religion was common in many parts of the world, but then again, you can read the book. :smile:  thats what they explain in it.
Telling ME to not know what prooving means, is one thing, speaking like that for A.Hofmann is absolutely hilarious in my opinion.
Yes, that is obvious by your opening attacking and erroneous line. Try upping the dosage.
Why the heck do you feel attacked when someone tells you "you know nothing"???  It is a simple observation for a simple subject you truly know nothing about.
Our egos really suck.
I will follow your advice tho.Thanx!!!  :smile:



--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Sterile]
    #1079210 - 11/23/02 01:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

untill you prooved the level of your ignorance

Oh you havn't seen nothing yet. Swami's just getting warmed up  :laugh: He can get far more ignorant than he's shown so far. 


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Remy]
    #1079423 - 11/23/02 03:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

a couple points.

1. hallucinagenic mushrooms aren't poisonous or hallucinagenic to most non human animals, or at least when they did all the tests, the better the brain the animal had the less was needed to produce more severe physical effects. in other words, the lower the inteligence of the animal, the less it was physically affected by psychedelics.

2. my father has the exact same belief as terenence mckenna (about mushrooms being an entitity that sends spores or something similar through space, and although i haven't asked him more about where he got the idea from, i'm pretty sure he has never heard of terence mckenna and that he got that idea somewhere in the early sixties (i'll ask him)

3. i'm curious less in how the fungus has evolved, and more how WE have evoveld .
how have you evolved?


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1079482 - 11/23/02 03:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Mushroom spores are a deep deep purple - the colour they would have to be to absorb the ultraviolet radiation that comes with any inter-planetary or inter-galactic space travel. Psilocybe spores are, but other psychedelic fungi spores aren't: panaeolus are black, conocybes have rusty-brown spores, and gymnopilus mushies have rusty orange to yellow orange spores. So much for that point..

If that were all, you might not be convinced. Consider this - there is no fossil record of the species older than 40,000,000 years. Similar soft-bodied organisms, worms and other benthic marine invertebrates, can be found that date back over 1,000,000,000 years, so the explanation that this particular species does not fossilize well can be brought into question. Yes, it could be brought into question. How long is the lifespan of 'benthic marine invertabrates'? I suspect longer than seven to 14 days, like a mushroom. How do things get fossilized? land slides, falling into peat bogs, blanketing from volcanic ash? The odds of catching a mushroom in a state to be preserved and fossilized are small just because of their short lifespan, and furthermore, Well, mushrooms can't fall into a bog, and most things covering them would crush them into a kind of unidentifiable paste. Also, I believe they are fairly prone to rotting, perhaps even by anaerobic bacteria after being covered by volcanic ash.. why do you think you are supposed to put mushrooms you buy at the grocery store in a paper bag?

Over periods of time, mushroom spores could travel on global air currents up into the upper reaches of a planet?s atmosphere, and every once in a while a couple could make the jump into space. "COULD" prove it happens, buddy

Genetically engineered for space travel opinion.

I've read all mckenna's books, and I love them, but remember it's all pseudoscientific speculation. He doesn't even necessarily believe what he says. He says something like "I treat the mushroom as I would an eccentric friend over to tea" so when the mushroom tells him it comes from outer space he's like "right, yeah ok sure." There's no good reason to think mushrooms come from outer space.


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Anonymous

Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Swami]
    #1079537 - 11/23/02 04:20 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

We're going to try and adopt a 'play nice' policy.  Do you think you could help?

:smile:

Cheers, 


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Anonymous

Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Sterile]
    #1079540 - 11/23/02 04:21 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

^^^^

Thanks! :smile:

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1079545 - 11/23/02 04:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

^^^^^^

Thanks! :smile:

Cheers,


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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
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Registered: 05/02/01
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1084836 - 11/25/02 05:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

THE FIRST VALUE OF PSILOYIBIN IS MAKING US SHROOMERS!!
Never forget that!! We wouldn't have been here on this forum! We would have been some work junkies! We wouldn't be so kind to each other and help us(shroomerites) whenever it comes to! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!

MUSHROOMS are the reason of Shroomery!
AS for SWAMI.. he would be a crazy man talking to nobody.. At least here there is someone to listen to him! :smile: :smile: :wink: :tongue:
He is part of us.. We are ONE! ONE BIG ENVOLVING SHROOM! WE ARE THE PSYLOCIBIN THAT RUNS THROUGH SHROOMERY'S VEINS. :smile:
P.S. I am not tripping. As a metter of fact I haven't trip for few months now. Efects come later to me. :smile:
SEE YOU SHROOM!!!! 


--------------------
I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: dumlovesyou]
    #1085069 - 11/25/02 07:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

AS for SWAMI.. he would be a crazy man talking to nobody.. At least here there is someone to listen to him!

LOL!  :laugh:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

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Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Murex]
    #1086480 - 11/26/02 03:34 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The following is off-topic but relavent, ignore it if you just want to read the on topic stuff at the bottom of the post.

----------------------------------------------------
You're calling swami crazy because he's thinking logically and using the scientific method?
If all you people that get so offended by swami were to take a moment and take a logical/scientific/skeptical viewpoint on your ideas before posting them, perhaps you wouldn't be so offended, when he questions their validity. This is what learning is about; question everything. Its great that you come up with creative, far-out, fanastic ideas, but realize that they are pretty out-there and that there could be more logical explainations or that you need to really scrutinize FACTS before accepting ANYTHING as truth.

That said, I will totally admit that I post crazy, far-out stuff, but the difference is I make it clear that I'm not speaking this as truth and that I'm willing to discuss and change my ideas. And I don't get offended when I'm criticized because I see it as an opportunity to learn.
-----------------------------------

On topic stuff:
For more information on the theory I posted about read this post. Dogomush: The theory (as far as I know) is not "conciousness-driven ". An example that helps to disprove random mutation is the fruit-fly which has been the most genetically studied organism and had many mutations induced in it; not once has a new species been created.

Alex123: I'm happy that you enjoyed my post and I thank you for your compliment, I must say that I have seen many good posts come from you.

Swami: Keep up the good posting and thinking, your patience is commendable.

Everyone else: Great thread! Keep the creative thoughts flowing. Learn to use the sciencific method as well (I know this doesn't apply to everyone but I don't want to point people out.)


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: psyphon]
    #1086828 - 11/26/02 07:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

First of all it's not Murex that said swami would have been a crazy man. :smile:(read the above post)
This was by NO MEAN intended to offend Swami. As I said.. he is a shroomer like the rest of us. :smile: You said the rest of it in your post. Though remeber also, that science is not based on something 100% pure. It's an opinion..just an way of thinknig. There is nothing wrong with that nor in finding new ways of understanding. Shroom on! :cool: :cool:


--------------------
I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world


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OfflineDroz
Love of Life
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Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: butter_flyfish]
    #1086995 - 11/26/02 08:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So what about the people who end up with bad trips, constant paranoid delusions, chemical imbalances and what not? Just because this chemical creates realizations, feelings of enlightenment, and can make your imagination twirl doesn't mean it is anything special. The mushroom has many effects. Let's take them all into consideration.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Evolutionary value of psilocybin? [Re: Droz]
    #1087332 - 11/26/02 12:07 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's a two part deal. There's you and there's the mushroom. If you arn't bringing anything worthwhile to the deal then you can expect a "bad trip".


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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