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Predetermination and free will
    #13874041 -

If all our decisions in life are the result of chemical reactions, we are therefore slaves to these chemical reactions. We might believe that we made a choice of our own free will, but in reality it was all simply a huge set of reactions that led us to react in that particular way.

Second, if there are a set of rules that dictate how particles react in exact situations, you are forced to conclude that every event in the universe is predetermined. That said, quantum physics states there are no set rules, only probability.

Furthermore, here is a picture of some cheesesticks.


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Don't hate the player; hate the game. -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: Gzaajhom]
    #13874051 -

You might be interested in the Libet experiment if you haven't already come across it.

Quote:
One significant finding of these studies is that a person's brain seems to commit to certain decisions before the person becomes aware of having made them. Early studies found delays of about half a second; with contemporary brain scanning technology, scientists in 2008 were able to predict with 60% accuracy whether subjects would press a button with their left or right hand up to 10 seconds before the subject became aware of having made that choice.


PS damn you for making me hungry with that picture of cheesesticks :crankey::drooling:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: deCypher]
    #13874239 -

Me too, I luv cheeseeeeeee.

My fav cheesoid species of all time is the elusive applewood smoked cheddar.

:fonda:

In response to this very equally hungry question, I look at it from the POV of birth and I believe strongly in environmental predetermination of a persons belief, belief acts to me as the fundamental difference in people's actions.

It really is difficult to imagine that people actually come to believe things on their own, when we all seem to absorb and become whatever our culture generally expresses.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13874387 -

I have no reason to support free will. Lack of certainty doesn't change much.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: Gzaajhom]
    #13875542 -

Gzaajhom said:
If all our decisions in life are the result of chemical reactions, we are therefore slaves to these chemical reactions. We might believe that we made a choice of our own free will, but in reality it was all simply a huge set of reactions that led us to react in that particular way.

Second, if there are a set of rules that dictate how particles react in exact situations, you are forced to conclude that every event in the universe is predetermined. That said, quantum physics states there are no set rules, only probability.

Furthermore, here is a picture of some cheesesticks.




I think we can all agree here. Especially on the cheese sticks!

I just wish they used a better class of cheese chemicals.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: Gzaajhom]
    #13875560 -

Quote:
but in reality it was all simply a huge set of reactions that led us to react in that particular way.


That is a good guess, but it has never been shown to be the case.  We assume that cause and effect work one way, from the bottom up.  Mostly this is because of reductionism's stellar track record.  But many complex phenomenon, including consciousness, have not been successfully derived from the physics/chemistry of the basic phenomenon.

I suggest giving this a read sometime.  Its speculative in nature, but still good food for thought: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/download.php?Number=8293996

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: DieCommie]
    #13875564 -

Well we're hoping there's no free will anyway. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: Icelander]
    #13879784 -

This can be argued either way with lots of valid points, but I still haven't come up with an answer of my own. I just think that if a part of your behavior, personality, thoughts, motives, and so on are set by genetics, then there's a certain percentage of your behavior, personality, thoughts, motives, and so on that you can't control. Also if the rest of your behavior, personality, thoughts, motives, and so on are a result of your environment; and in your environment are many punishments, rewards, and incentives that you cannot control then do you have real control of anything?

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Re: Predetermination and free will [Re: Gzaajhom]
    #13880735 -

if there are a set of rules that dictate how particles react in exact situations

There is ample evidence to suggest this is not the case. Particles react in different ways even given the exact same starting conditions.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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